Chrysler 300/300C

bmorisette

I am very relieved to hear the price will be in the 25-35 range. I was going to have a hard time justifying $40+K to the wifey, but low 30's should be an easy sell. Thanks for the link svevar. I can't wait to test drive one of these things and I hope it lives up to expectations.

andys120

that have marginal driving skills/knowledge, they are better off staying away from rwd in snow. I saw a guy today putting snows on a modified Crown Vic, he put them on the rear wheels only while the fronts were still wearing extra wide tires on spoked "mag" wheels.

Lord help him if he has to stop quickly on packed snow or ice.

intrepidspirit

"You got that right, the biggest fans of these "wow" cars are those that merely like to LOOK at cars and not drive them."

Does your opinion come from experience? Just curious. I have had a 98 Intepid and currently have a 2001 and 2003 300M. Getting in and out has never been a problem -- in fact both cars are extremely easy to get in and out of!

Now if you think the cab forward cars are difficult, try your entry/exit skills on the 2002/2003 Thunderbird...

Good luck!

intrepidspirit

Who mentioned cloud cars? They are not in the same class -- definitely mid-size or compact.

You may have personal reasons for disliking the LH cars -- and we all know they are dead as of 2004, by the way -- but you are way off the mark on headroom and entry/exit of LH cars. But that's not surprising since you have never owned one.
  
Check the thousands of posts in the 300M forum. I doubt you'll find one complaint about headroom/entry/exit from 300M owners.

I don't know what you drive, but I certainly wouldn't criticize it unless I knew what I was talking about.

b4z

I am 6'8", and trust me when I tell you that the front legroom and headroom are not as good as the Impala/Intrigue due to the raked back windshield headers in the LH cars.
The backseat room is better, but we are talking about front seat comfort here.

intrepidspirit

b4z...I don't doubt that one bit. But at 6'8" you are taller than 99.9% of the population. My point is that the LH cars are not the worst for legroom and headroom. Many 300M owners picked the 300M over the Lincoln LS specifically because it had more head and legroom...

tomcat...you actually sat in and drove one? Excuse me for questioning your expert opinion. BTW, anybody that buys a car for its resale value has just made a terrible investment...

I'm curious why you are so gung ho on the LX's when you think the LH's are crap. Do you really think DC has done a 180 and no longer will have "bad transmissions and 80's quality?"

ehaase

I have also heard people complain about the difficulty of getting into an LH. However, I have rented several LH's and enjoyed driving every one of them. I just wish that I could have seen the hood from the driver's seat.

intrepidspirit

Resale value is an unknown quantity. Statistically it may range from 45-60% after 3 years. But with all the rebates, etc. over the past several months, resales have fallen for all cars. One of the hardest hit according to the Wall Street Journal was the Lexus ES430. So if you bought one because of projected resale value, you lost big time because you made a large investment. Several other luxury cars were affected as well.

My rule of thumb is to spend as little as you can to get what meets your needs/desires. The less you spend, the less you will lose at trade-in time. I would rather lose 50% of $25,000 than 45% of $55,000...

b4z

True, but the 55K car will hold it's value as a percentage and a dollar amount much longer.
For instance, my '01 Impala retailed for 25.5K 29 months ago. I paid 21.3k for it including sales tax. I have it in autotrader for 12.5K and have not had 1 single call in a month.
It is the cheapest '01 Impala LS in autotrader with 50K miles.

There are NO '01 Lexus LS 400s with 50K miles that have depreciated 50% in 29 months.

I just purchased a '95 Lexus LS 400 with 127K miles for $9700.
I wouldn't consider buying a used Impala with that many miles at ANY price.

charlesf1

I was at the PT Block Party last Saturday in Pomona, CA. There was a 300C on display along with the new PT models that will be coming out. The rep. told me the 300C will be out in February. It sure has changed from my 300M. It did have a different feel sitting in it. I may consider replacing my 2000 model for one of them after a test drive.

ruski

they let you sit in it?

soozpk

As I stated here before, every day I surf over to the Chrysler 300 webpage,
eagerly awaiting it's completion. Well, in the new issue of Car & Driver,
DC ran an ad with a front end photo of the 300C, with the nameplate blacked
out. The ad calls it "The Mystery Car", giving a website to go to, and a card
to fill out for more info.

Anywho, the two 300C webpages are:

http://www.chrysler.com/300series/index.html?context=homepage&amp- ;type=promo2

http://www.themysterycar.com/static.html

b4z

Noticed in the pics that the climate control is just rotary dials with numbers on them.
Even Chevy's pickups offer digital climate control.

svevar

Chrysler's "Mystery Car" campaign is certainly odd, but at least the website offers some key information about the 300C. The thing is, though, I don't think that the 300C and its maker are mysteries to Car and Driver subscribers, since there have been articles printed about the car in past issues. I could see the campaign working in, say, Time magazine, but not in an automotive enthusiast's magazine.

ruski

Ok, it looks like "300C" is actually the name of the high-end model. What's the name of the base model going to be?

ruski

300Concorde?

svevar

In ascending price order, the model names will be:

300
300 Touring
300C

...or so I gather from Chrysler's 300 series page and their current trim level naming system.

bmorisette

I agree that the "Mystery Car" idea is a little odd. If memory serves, Oldsmobile tried a similar thing with the introduction of the Alero and it wasn't well received. Look what happened to Olds R.I.P.

DC isn't even trying hard to hide it since you can check the WHOIS database and DaimlerChrysler is listed as the domain name owner. I've seen other companies register the domain under an individual employee's name or have the ad agency register it if they really wanted to keep it a secret.

Here's the WHOIS link: http://www.register.com/whois-results.cgi?ddb106e4633eb7cb95758b8- bf7e98c1b1c00c6f58e3df45a858db16132f517eda1a362d671547f4e56ee4122- 8fc0d16d52fd5053e8c6bd87

soozpk

Don't forget also, that even though Brampton will be building the 300 series,
the 300 Touring wiil NOT be available here in North America. We will be only
able to get the Dodge version of the wagon here, as the 300 Touring will be
sold overseas.

svevar

I know that we will not get the overseas-only 300 wagon, AKA 300 Touring, but "Touring" will designate the midlevel trim for the sedan in North America, as it does for Sebring Touring, Town & Country Touring, PT Cruiser Touring, etc. Chrysler has abandonned its LX/LXi/Limited model names in favor of Base/Touring/Limited.

tomcat630

'LX' is overused anyway, just about every make has or have had an 'LX' car.

svevar

I agree

dean58

I sent my card back to them without a name and address but with the message that I didn't care what it was because I wouldn't want one. I'm very happy with my 300m.

soozpk

I had already filled out the DC 300 webpage inquiry, and had no less
than two salesmen from my local dealership call me at work. This
time I took the snail-mail card found in Car & Driver, filled in my name
and address, and on the rest, I wrote in magic marker:

   "JUST SEND ME A DAMN CATALOG ASAP" Thanks

tomcat630

Never give a phone # to a car dealer! They will call day and night. They are allowed to, since a customer gave them the #, as opposed to telemarketers that call from a directory.

soozpk

No, I knew full well why they wanted all that info, but hell,
all I wanted, (and still very much want), was just a lousy
300C catalog. Instead of wasting their time with the
"Mystery Car" webpage, it would have been very nice to
finish up the DC 300C webpage that's been dormant for
a while. Perspective buyers need information, and the
info I got from the two salesmen didn't amount to much
anyway.

By the way this website has many pics of the 300C &
Touring

http://www.dodgeboy.net/news/300c/index.htm

xmf314

I have seen several of the new 300 Series cars driving around Los Angeles. They have manufacturer license plates and are painted in what appears to be dark gray primer. A couple of times I have found myself driving in traffic with them. On these occasions I seem to be the only one who notices them. I've not seen drivers or passenger in other cars looking at the vehicles. My sense is that most people would think they are older large American cars.

soozpk

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=105&STORY=/- www/story/12-04-2003/0002069658

alberhpr

Does anyone else besides me think that the new 300 is just plain ugly? It's very retro looking in a bad way. I've always had a soft spot for the 300M. Unfortunately build quailty and lack of a manual transmission kept me from buying one. I like the LHS body and the Intrepid too. It seems like Chrysler's designs are going backwards.

I also find it irriaiting that all the manufacturers are going abck to rear wheel drive. The only justification for this is more powerful engines. They do this at the same time that they resist attempts to impose requirements for greater fuel economy. Does anyone really need a car with more than 265 HP (the current Nissan Maxima)?

ruski

I do.

ruski

you didn't like 300M's build quality? I thought it was quite good.

bmorisette

For several years now, I think that Chrysler has been at the forefront of body design in regards to style and flare. In my opinion, the other two domestics make boring looking cars. It seems like they are too worried about offending anyone with too radical of a design and when they try radical, it's poorly executed (Chevy SSR, Ford T-bird).
I read a quote from a Chrysler executive when they introduced the PT Cruiser that their market research on the design indicated that everyone either strongly liked it or strongly hated with almost no one in the middle. Chrysler sees that report and takes the stance of "Half of 'em love it! Great!" GM and Ford would probably water it down until everyone said it was "OK".
Personally, I want a 300C with the HEMI so I can get a hot performing car with truckloads of style that still seats 5 big people without being cramped. I live in Boston and you'd think that owning Honda or a BMW was required or they kick you out of the city. I still need to drive the thing before I plunk down the cash, but as long as it doesn't suck, I'll take it.
I loved the 300M as well. Great car, great engine, great price, and when it was introduced, truly distinctive looking. But it's showing it's age and what used to be just about the most powerful 6 cylinder on the market is only middle of the road now. So I welcome the new design and I look forward to see what elements trickle down to the Intrepid / Concord versions of this beauty.

soozpk

I also like both designs, unfortunately though, we'll never get see what the LH body style
would have evolved into. It was right for it's time as we entered the new century.
Like bmorisette, I'm ordering mine also with the Hemi, but not for speed. Here in the
Dakotas, a good reliable engine is needed, especially in below zero weather. I no
longer want the hassle of timing and serpentine belts coming off because a chunk of
ice got caught between a pully and the belt. My 3.0 has done that numerous times
through the years, and believe me, trying to put the serpentine belt on at 10 PM at
-20 below on a rural highway is no fun.

intrepidspirit

I much prefer the appearance of the M to the C.

However, as an M owner, I try to tone down my opinion for fear of being labelled a "whiner"...

tomcat630

"I also find it irriaiting that all the manufacturers are going abck to rear wheel drive. The only justification for this is more powerful engines. They do this at the same time that they resist attempts to impose requirements for greater fuel economy."

Don't like it? Then keep getting FWD econoboxes. The car mags brainwashed all "car purists" to think that "ALL cars must be FWD for effieciency." Now suddenly they are drolling over RWD and AWD.

Good to see some choices available. A RWD car certainly gets better mileage than a truck, which covers 50% of the market. Offer an alternative, and maybe some will dump thier 10MPG things for a 20-25 mpg car. With Hybrids comming along, and other technology, bigger cars can get better mileage. Then, we won't ALL have to be forced into the tiny FWD boxes that the social engineers want.

intrepidspirit

FWD = econobox?
RWD = big car?

Not true. I have driven RWD cars that were smaller than the FWD cars I have driven. And econobox??? Whatever you want to say about the LH cars, none of them are econoboxes!

And RWD's have that huge hump down the middle of the floor that robs you of interior rear space -- not to mention they are a nightmare to drive in heavy snow...

The only advantage I can see with FWD is the potential for 300+ HP without torque steer (for those that are not satisfied with ~ 250 HP...).

tomcat630

One thing I can say about the LH cars is they are big Flops. They failed to help Chrysler's bottom line, to capture import buyers, provide good resale value, and meet needs of car buyers. Bigger FWD cars like the LH and Caddy Seville are the real dinosaurs, not RWD.

soozpk

IntrepidSpirit wrote: And RWD's have that huge hump down the middle of the floor

My ' 94 Lebaron has a hump both in front and back, and that's FWD.

The advantages to RWD also include getting away from those rough, stiff, rear
struts, and going back to leaf springs, which make for a better ride. The advantage
of having higher hp engines available is that they tend to use timing chains instead
of belts. Add to the fact that the power steering racks are subjected to less
wear also in RWD.

tomcat630

"Huge Hump"??

Nobody sits three across in the front seats anymore, and the middle rear is rarely used also.

Intrripid resale is real bad. I see 2000's advertised for $5-7000, and they were supposed to be "so super duper futuristic"

intrepidspirit

Sounds like a broken record...the LH cars are the worst design ever imposed upon the car driving public, and anyone who actually owns one and likes it is a "whiner"...

andys120

fwd or rwd that precludes the use of leaf sprung rear axles. OTOH most consider the introduction of coil-sprung independent rear suspensions a boon to good rides compared to the ox-cart rides given by primitive rear leaf springs.

ruski

what?!!!! You like leaf springs????

beespecial

Well then, I must be a whiner. I love my M and would take it over a "run-of-the-mill", "can't-swing-a-dead-cat-without-hitting-one" Asian make anytime.

rctennis3811

The 300M was great, and now the new 300 is even better! The styling up front may be a little bit odd, but it wraps around very nicely. It also has a LOT of Mercedes-Benz technology (thank God!). The interior looks very upscale, and Chrysler raised their build quality lately (Durango and now this). I'm glad that Chrysler is returning to their roots of American luxury...

ramzey28

The car kind of grows on you. At first I thought it was odd and the grill way to big but after looking at it more and more...I really do like it. It does have some great lines, looks sharp. The wagon looks like a hurst, can't like that. Does nothing for me. I just hope the engine will make the car shine. We will see. The biggest thing Chrysler needs to do it loose whoever does its marketing. When do they get a clue!! The Pac, The Crossfire, and now this, the 300C. They market it so poorly. The mystery car, come on. Please! It not hard to market these products but it seems Chrysler makes it hard. Thats my 2 cents.

jjgittes

I like the way the 300 is shaping up, at least judging from the pics I've seen. But, for me, the question is whether it will be enuf to pull me up from something like a 6 cyl. 240 hp accord that can be had for $22k. If I wanted to spend in the $30's, I doubt I'd go to the 300. I will be surprised if this car is a hit at above the $30k point. I think the competition is just too tough. Yeah, I know, it's RWD and will have a "Hemi" at the top end, but in the low, much less mid $30s one can get a pretty darn nice entry luxury japanese or european car, with better resale and arguably better cache, etc. In any event, I would like a big RWD car, with a good relatively high hp 6 cyl, for maybe mid twenties. We'll see if the 300 delivers.

300michael

While the 300M was a great car (read any of the 1999 car mags, how they rated it) when it came out Chrysler/Damiler droped the ball by not improving the line. The I30 and the TL was it's compition. They came out with the PHG and Special's but no real improvements. The others have simply improved and passed it by. Chrysler also never really marketed the car very well (or didn't know who to market it to) They simply went for the quick fix. (things like better tires to improve handling and reduced road noise for example) With a couple extra hundred dollars it could have been much better. Unlike some of the others who hate the car I have done changes to make it better (about 100 to date)
I do hope that Chrysler will not do the same to the 300C as they did to the foster (M) 300 child. I do wish they would not call it the 300C that was the 1957 Model. I can see the future, Chrysler 300C for sale. With every one asking is it the 1557 or the 2005-2010 model? It is bad enough that the MB already had 300 models (yes a 300M) to cloud the issue.
Don't put the smaller engines into the 300C either, It is Bad enough that they will try to get upwards of over 40K (even higher for the Hemi model) for the car but to park the same car next to each other in a parking lot. With one having a 27K and the other having a 45K prices. It will be hard to justify the extra 20K. Image if they tried that stragity with the Neon. Here we have a 12K Neon and here we have a 32K neon. People will say take off the Hemi fender badges and reduce the price of the car 20K.
Now that the Chrysler will be using MB parts and system I hope they get the bugs worked out (MB's quality rating is worse then Chrysler's) if they want to instill value and upscale reputations.
It should prove a very interesting future. Of course the copitition is not going to be resting either with the new CTS and the LS not to mention the Audi's and BMW's and Acura's that are all in the same price range.

wsag26

I think that Chrysler is finally improving in its sedan segment, but not enough. I think the 300C has a love-it-or-hate-it design, and I'm not so sure I might like it at all. It has improved, but I'm scared of the price. Chrysler seems to want to be what its name is supposed to live up to, a luxury brand with premium cars for not so much as you think it should be.... but it'll be very hard to make other models that might boost sales, since Chrysler is losing a lot of sales, and losing millions of dollars as we speak.
But, I think we should all have something in mind for the car.. Here is what I want to see, not the real specs:

Pricing: $22K-$30K
Engine: Standard 250 hp V-6 (from Pacifica), Optional 250 hp Diesel (from Benz), Optional 280 hp V-8 (new engine), Optional Hemi 350 hp V-8
Features: Leather Seats, Optional Navigation System, Optional Skylight Sunroof System, Luxury Wood Trims, Optional Bose 6-speaker system, Optional Rear DVD-Entertainment system, Unique Compartments to hold stuff in

How do you like it, and what is your take?
I'd like to know...

m45guy

Sure, it's a little, well, unwieldy looking, and I'm not a huge fan of the giant grille, but then, some cars don't come off well in picures. The Infiniti J30 jumps to mind.

I do wish they'd have separate rear turn signals, but that is a personal peeve of mine.

I'm with wsag26, we really *deserve* a decent diesel in this country. The VW's seem to be doing well, and they're much quieter than a few late-80's beater US sedans I've heard lately.

I can't wait to see what VW's (ack) 10-cyl TD with 315 HP and 555 lb. ft. of torque will do. 0-60 in 7 seconds *and* 22 MPG. Nice.

I saw a comment about how MB has "low" quality numbers...this is mainly due to the ML class "SUV"'s. To be expected, IMHO.

Hmmm, after more thought, I'll have to consider keeping the 'Trep another ten years, as I have four new struts sitting in the garage, waiting to be put in, and the 100,000 mile blues seem to be over. Sure, it's not the quickest sedan out there, but it returns about 20 MPG, seats 4 comfortably, is paid for, is cheap to insure, and I won't get teary-eyed if she gets a door ding. Plus, for its size, the car handles *remarkably* well, even with some age on it.

FWIW, RWD flat-out handles better at speed than does FWD. Plus, it doesn't tear tires up as quickly. Sure, it won't be as good in the snow, but I'd bet it does okay with studless snows and traction control. My '95 3.5L Intrepid ES was just fine until the snow got to 8 inches deep, at which point, the bumpers started acting like plow blades. Still, I love driving the car, even at 9 years old w/114K miles on it. I can't imagine giving it up, especially if a suitable replacement is gonna run me 40-large. Sure, there are a bunch of Mercedes E-class parts underneath, but after three years, I'm sure used ones will be available for under 10K. I'll wait.

ruski

hey that 250 V6 is not from the Pacifica, it is from the 300M.