Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

ateixeira

If the Legacy won it would be the most significant achievement of the century so far.

Just kidding.

I've just always thought Motor Trend had the least technical merit of any of the major car mags. That's a view I've shared for a long time, not just recently.

The 300C is a fine car and I'm not even saying it doesn't deserve it, only that MT's stamp doesn't mean anything to me.

For marketing purposes, it means a LOT. It's probably the most recognized award by the general public.

-juice

robr2

If the Legacy won it would be the most significant achievement of the century so far.

Just kidding.

Subbie fans just seem to take any criticism/loss so personally!! Try to be like us Red Sox fans - there's always next year!! Well not anymore. But you know what I mean.

ateixeira

Honestly, I bust on MT every chance I get, win or lose, doesn't matter. LOL

zman3

This really isn't an 05 topic but this seems to be the most active Subaru forum.

I need to replace the wiper blades on my 98 Outback. I have never tried winter blades before but I thought I might give it a shot with the Minnesota winter not far off. Does anyone have any recommendations on if winter blades make a difference and if so, which brand might be better than others?

Thanks.

Karl

ateixeira

I got some winter blades at Costco, I forget the brand. They come wrapped in a rubber housing and supposedly prevent ice from jamming in there so they keep their flex.

But to be honest they don't flex all that well to begin with, so I would not recommend these.

-juice

snowbelter

Its almost time for me to put them on. Been using them for the past three winters on both of our Subarus. They eliminate the blade freeze-up that happens to the regular blades. I've used Anco with best results. A bit more flexible and the rubber seems to last longer. The Subaru-branded bladesfrom the dealer seemed stiffer and didn't wear as well. Be careful what size blade you get. Some blade manufacturers recommend you go down one size. Not sure why. (Instead of 22 and 20 go to 20 and 18, at least for OBs 00-04) I've used both sizes and like the full-size ones for my car.

rob_m

Wouldn't consider a NE winter without them! Had them on both Subies for the snow last weekend. Stick to the brand name from the local auto parts chain and you should do fine. Rob M.

kyfdx

Just because MT says what the requirements are.. doesn't make it so...

I still say it is whoever bids the highest for the advertising package... And.. I have no ulterior motive for saying that, unlike them.

regards,
kyfdx

ollie416

I honestly can't remember who was talkig about the new Outback Sedans but up in the NE they seem to be a bit more common. If you start looking at some of the eastern MA dealerships and slowly work your way out to the western part of the state, there seems to be quite a few dealerships with at least one OB sedan in inventory (at least according to the website). They seem to be going for MSRP low $29K to high $30k. Anywho, if you need a starting point, try zip code 02740 for the dealer search.

Just my random $0.02

~Karen

stantont

rwoods,

Did you happen to check fuel milege on a long steady cruise, at like 75 mph? Now that you have over 4000 miles, the number should begin to approach full break-in value.

sduford

"Significance" doesn't do buyers any good.

The K Car may have been significant for Chrysler's survival, but it sure didn't do much for owners!

Sly

robr2

Never said it did but that's MT's listed criteria.

They never said anything about it being the best car, the highest quality car, the most exciting car, ad nauseum.

stimulust

Today was the day. I picked up my BRAND NEW OBXT! I am just a little excited...

Break in: People at dealer said keep rpm <3K for first 500mi then <4K for the next 500mi. After 1000 the car would be broken in. Also, good to switch to synthetic after 10K, as doing it prior could lead to excessive oil consumption.

Question: I asked if I could wax the car. He at first hesitated and said no, saying the paint still needed to breathe (for up to three months). When I told him the car would live outside and not in a garage, he suggested I wax it. I am familiar with letting a paint cure, but I am guessing it has been ~month since this car was painted if not more. He then offered to let me pay $450 for a some coat finish that I declined.

Any recommendations on when to wax a new car?

thanks,
-jer

kens

jer,

Congrats!! A little excited? You should be jumping up and down!

Your OBXT is ready to be waxed now. The paint is fully cured in the factory and requires no additional wait time. In fact, it's probably been at least one month from the actual date of manufacture until you picked up your car so there's really no worry.

I would suggest doing it right from the start. That means a thorough wash followed by a clay bar treatment to remove contaminants and old wax. Then follow up with a high quality wax to protect your paint.

Ken

stimulust

Thanks Ken. I was attempting to temper my enthusiasm, of course I am going crazy.

That is what I had thought regarding the paint. The dealer mentioned that it would be better to hand wax as opposed to machine buff. I am guessing that is because of the supposed thin paint? I'll wash and wax her tomorrow. !!!!

Where can I find the clay bar? I have seen it at professional shops before but was unsure if it was sold at auto part stores.

thanks,
-jer

tsy

Hey, can someone check their ashtray at night for me and tell me if the light is red or white? I can't remember and my dealer changed the door at my last service.

Thanks

Congrats Jer on your new car. The Subaru paint is kinda thin- I don't know if it's because car companies are trying to make the paint more environmentally safe, but it chips quite easily.

You can get clay bars at any auto parts store or mail order them. Need to use lots of the spray that comes with it when you do it.

Subaru recommends staying below 4K for the first 1000 miles. It's difficult to say the least. I must confess I gunned it past 5K a few times, in an emergency, of course. ;-)

As for synthetic, some cars come with sythetic oil in them so it's up to you to decide whom to believe. I changed to a sythetic blend at 2500 miles and will go full synthetic at my next oil change.

Congrats again.

tom

infrasub

I have good luck with the Anco winter blades in Iowa, Going to buy some for out New GT this weekend. Just turned 1k miles on her yesterday, The fun begins!

Dave

dsattler

My understanding is that Subaru, like many manufacturers, buys parts that are sometimes made for a multitude of applications. The stereo display is one of them. Not all the functions are enabled, but I'm sure it's cheaper than having a display custom made.

kens

The dealer probably recommended hand waxing not because of the paint thickness, but because you are less likely to damage your finish in the process.

Orbital buffers are great for covering a lot of area quickly and/or really getting that clearcoat to shine. However, because they are a power tool, they are also less tolerant of incorrect usage. The most common danger is pushing down too hard on the paint surface for too long. While it's hard to buff out paint, you certainly can wear down the clear coat depending on what you're buffing with.

Since your car is brand new, you really don't need to use a buffer. Take the time to wash, clay and then wax your car by hand. Get to know all the angles and enjoy the view. Just remember to wax in vertical and horizontal motions to minimize swirl marks.

If you keep to a regular routine, you'll probably never need a buffer (unless you have many cars to wax at once).

I would recommend using a synthetic wax. You can find some at your local auto store (Meguiars NXT, NuFinish) or order them online. My favorite is Klasse All-in-One. Synthetics go on easier, bond better to your paint and last longer. They also will outshine most cleaner/waxes that you find at your local store.

Ken

c_hunter

Tom,

Just checked -- my ashtray light is clear.

CRaig

hilbert

Congrats on your new car. Which color did you get? I got the delivery of my black OBXT 2 days back. I am looking for excuses to go out of the houses and drive it.

If anyone here has waxed their new Subaru cars (especially with dark colors) can you please suggest a good high quality wax. I have heard than some of them can infact make the color a little dull (when the car is brand new).

Thanks,
Bharat.

zman3

Thanks for the input everyone.

Karl

c_hunter

I have been real happy with Klasse products -- has worked great on dark and light cars I have owned.

Craig

hilbert

Thanks Craig. I will look for this in Autozone here.

I don't think CR tested this one.

Its good to have people like you and Juice here who know so much.

Hilbert

c_hunter

I don't think you can get Klasse in stores, but it's available online (try a google search).

Craig

tsy

Thanks Craig.

I'm going to try to fix the squeaking from my center console today so I thought I'd fix the light at the same time. ;-)

tom

hilbert

That's bad. I like purchasing such things from the store because I have this (probably wrong) belief that if it NOT ALSO sold in stores, it must not be very good.

But in this case your recommendation changes that. Perhaps I will buy it online.

Do you have any experience with Meguiars?
Also what do you use to apply wax? Cloth, or some special stuff?
Thanks,
Hilbert

c_hunter

With Klasse, I use a micro-fiber pad to apply the wax, and then use a micro-fiber towel to buff it back out.

I think Meguiars products are pretty good, probably among the best you can get in the stores. Nothing compares to the ease of application, shine, and durability of Klasse in my opinion though.

Craig

hilbert

Thanks. I think I will order Klasse online. You are talking about Klasse All-in-one right?

Thanks,
Hilbert

kens

I've tried pretty much everything a typical auto store has to offer before switching to Klasse. I was skeptical of mail ordering first, but I quickly realized how good a product it was. A nice thing about Klasse is that you end up using very little product compared to a conventional cleaner/wax.

Oh, and it works great for removing that cosmoline that oozes from the wheel lugs. A small dab of Klasse dissolves it right off.

Ken

c_hunter

I start with all-in-one, and then followup with the sealer (optional, but gives a nice durable finish). I normally only wax once a year, and the sealer is supposed to last that long. All-in-one is good for six months.

Craig

kens

Based on recommendations at Legacygt.com, I installed European Osram Silverstar H7 bulbs in my LGT today.

Installation was straight forward. I needed to move away the washer fluid spout on the driver's side and the intake on the passenger side to access the bulbs.

I haven't had a chance to drive with them at night so I'll post my opinions later.

One thing I did notice working around the engine bay is how much nicer things are installed in the Legacy compared to my Forester. For example, the intake piece is held into place by two quarter-turn fasteners that are shimmed with rubber washers, presumably for dampening. On my Forester, the equivalent piece was simply screwed into the frame.

Also, the cover sealing the headlight assembly on my Forester was a simple rubber boot that wasn't very secure. On the Legacy, it's a plastic housing with a rubber seal that locks/unlocks with a simple twist.

Ken

hilbert

Thanks Craig and Kens.

We all learn from experience, it is either our own or that of others. I will go with your experience and order Klasse. I have washed a car (myself) only once in my lifetime and am very worried that I may spoil anything while waxing. But I think with Microfiber pads things should be okay.

Can you please suggest a way that I should go about it. Should I wash it first? Should I wash it with a hose? If the water force is strong, can it damage the color? In waxing should I start from the roof? When waxing the roof do you open the doors and stand on the edge of entrance to the car or do you stand on somethine else. Should I be very careful NOT LET the product touch the Lights, Windows, Mirrors etc.

Are these things explained in the directions that come with Klasse.

Thanks a ton for your help.

c_hunter

One of the greatest things about Klasse is that it's safe for everything, including glass and plastic (some other waxes can actually stain/ruin plastic). So you can pretty much aim for the paint but not worry about getting it on other stuff. I actually apply Klasse to the headlights and tail lights on purpose, and any shiny plastic bits.

The trick with Klasse is to apply a very light "film" of the wax, basically just enough to give a dull hazy appearance to the finish. Let it dry/harden, and then buff off.

Be sure to wax in the shade!! The order in which you proceed is not important. Instead of standing in the door openings, I would use a step stool (luckily I am tall and don't have to worry about this). You can actually crack the door-sill trim by putting too much weight on it.

Before waxing, wash the car with Dawn dish detergent, it will strip off any older waxes the dealer may have applied. Dry the car with a micro-fiber towel or chamois, and then wait a few hours or overnight before waxing. Be sure to dry out the door openings, trunk opening, hood opening, etc... anywhere than can trap water that would drip out later and be a hassle.

Then start with all-in-one (AIO). Wipe a very thin film over the car, panel by panel. FYI, a quarter-sized spot of AIO on your damp pad is enough for a door sized panel. Let it dry, and then buff out with a micro-fiber towel. After going panel by panel, I get a fresh towel and re-buff the whole car, paying attention to any gaps/cracks that may still need buffing.

Then repeat with the Klasse sealant, but here use even less (perhaps a dime/nickel sized spot for a door sized panel). Again, just enough to get a haze on the car.

For subsequent car washes, use a product that is safe for wax (ie, don't use Dawn again or it will take your Klasse off!). You can pick up a number of carwash products at the store that will be wax-friendly. I found some red stuff in a small bottle that works great.

Some other tips -- wash the wheels and tires first, and then dump out your bucket of soapy water, rinse, and make a new bucket of soapy water for the car. I actually have a sponge for the wheels and a separate wash-mitt for the car. When washing the wheels, I also wash the inner edges of the wheel wells.

Wet down the whole car before washing.

Wash the car section by section (or panel by panel), and rinse after each section. Again, do not wash in the sun!

That's all I can think of by now. And it reminded me that both of our cars are overdue for a wash!

Good luck!

Craig

kens

hilbert,

I follow a similar routine as Craig, but I have a few differences. As long as you remember some basics, you really don't need to worry about damaging the paint. It's okay to find a method that works best with you.

Here are some of my basic tips:
- Always wash your car before waxing. You want any dirt off the car before you start rubbing anything on the paint.
- Always detail in the shade and on cool paint.
- Before washing, hose down the car well, top to bottom to remove loose dirt.
- Use a natural lambswool wash mitt or microfiber wash cloth. Never use a sponge.
- Use a paint friendly car-wash (unless it's the first time and you want to remove the wax, use Dawn like Craig suggested)
- Wash from top down. The top of the car is usually the cleanest.
- Work a panel at a time. Give your washmitt a good swirl in the bucket before moving on.
- I use a separate mitt for the wheels -- they are the dirtiest part of the car. I use a synthetic wash mitt that I can just toss in the wash.
- Hose down the car, again top to bottom.
- Dry with clean microfiber cloths. To speed up drying, you can use a soft car-squeege like the California Car blade.
- Don't forget to open each door and wipe off the water caught between the door jambs.
- Try to wash once a week.
- Avoid washing when it's windy and dusty outside.

For Klasse AIO, here are my tips:
- Use a damp microfiber pad -- it makes it easier to apply and has a lower risk of scratching.
- Klasse AIO is also a cleaner so the longer you work it in, the better it cleans.
- Unlike Craig, I don't wait for Klasse to dry before wiping it off with a microfiber towel.
- I also dont' wait for the car to dry over night. I just wash, get most of the water off and go at it.
- Work a section at at time -- it's easy to loose track and forget a section.

Klasse High Gloss Sealant:
- Again, use a damp pad to apply. However, this time, you want to just cover the surface. The sealant is just pure acrylic so there's no need to work it in.
- Work a section at a time.
- With the Sealant, it's important you let it dry (at least a few hours) until it forms a light haze. The longer you wait, the easier it is to buff off.
- Use the sealant sparingly or it'll be hard to buff it off.

The most important thing -- after you're done, take a few moments to stand back and enjoy the shine. The next time you wash, you'll notice how easy the water beads and the dirt washes off easier.

Here's the link where I got my detailing tips and where I buy my Klasse:

http://www.properautocare.com/detailingtips.html

Happy detailing!

Ken

hilbert

Thanks a Ton, Craig and Ken. Thats very helpful and I am (Almost) ready to go.
After both of you have described it so well, I feel ashamed to ask another question?

I will be waxing it for the first time, i.e., Dealer just waxed it a week or so back. However, I do not feel comfortable using Dawn after having read in so many places (CR, Car Talk, Geico etc.) to not use dishwashing detergent.

Is it okay if I use some car wash soap? Do you think that will not get the earlier wax out and therefore Klasse application will not do a good job.

Thanks a ton again.

Hilbert

c_hunter

Dawn is fine, in fact it's preferred for a pre-wax washing. Do not use it post-wax, however!

If you are worried about Dawn, use Ivory Liquid or Palmolive -- soft on the hands too! I'm just kidding, I would stick with Dawn.

Craig

[Deleted User]

Hello! I'm another fan of Klasse. I switched from Meguiars natural carnuba products a few years ago and haven't looked back since. Because you'll be new to waxing, and haven't endured the buffing required with natural carnuba (and potential staining on black plastic), you probably won't appreciate how easy Klasse is to work with. Klasse is a little pricey to buy upfront, but it's actually cheaper to use in the long run because you consume so little product during each waxing. Plus it lasts twice as long as carnuba.

Like Craig and Ken, I'd definitely recommend washing with Dawn before waxing. The experts you quoted as not recommending washing with Dawn say so because it removes all grease from a car, including any wax. If you won't be waxing after a wash with Dawn, then your car would be stripped of wax and unprotected.

There are two good reasons to wash with Dawn before your waxing:
1. It will remove the wax the dealer put on. They probably used a cheap natural wax and you definitely want to get that off. They may have imbedded dirt, and using Dawn will strip the wax covering it up. The Klasse is also a cleaner, so chances are that Klasse would remove the natural wax, but you might as well play it safe and use the Dawn.
2. Chances are your dealer put silicone tire treatment on your tires. That's bad stuff. It stains paint and damages tire rubber. It may look pretty by making you tires shiny, but it's not good for any part of your car. Get it off and keep it off. Dawn will help with that. Only use water-based products on you car's vinyl and rubber (I recommend 303 Aerospace, Vinylex, or something similar). Any product that has a flammability warning probably shouldn't go near your paint, rubber, or vinyl.

Good luck and enjoy! Use that Klasse every six months, clean up any bird droppings as soon as you can, and wash between waxes regularly with a good quality car soap, and your paint will thank you with a good shine and long life.

-Ty

c_hunter

Since we are sharing our secrets -- get a spray bottle of Meguiars Quick Detailer. Works great for wiping bird droppings, bugs, or random crud off the car between washes. I give my car a quick lookover each night as I pull into the garage, and take a minute or two to wipe off anything that could piossibly damage the paint.

Craig

hilbert

A big Question? What if my dealer did not apply Wax properly. Suppose he did not apply it in some small areas and hence these therefore have original paint. What will happen if Dawn attacks these areas?

Any particular Dawn? They come in so many colors and fragrances?

Finally, how much concentration of Dawn should I use?

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU ALL OF YOU.

Hilbert

c_hunter

Don't worry about Dawn or any similar dish soap, it really can't hurt the car's finish directly.

With any of the soaps, I typically use a quarter-sized squirt into the bottom of the bucket. You want to get LOT of suds.

Craig

luck11

Hi. Sorry I'm piping in a little late...was away this weekend.

Craig, never used the Meguiars detailer, but I usually wash bird droppings with a good strong hose spray. Last thing you want to do is "wipe" since the droppings often contain sand and small rocks birds use to digest. Wiping will certainly grind and scratch your paint. You probably know that but thought I would clarify for others that may not be aware.

Hilbert, I have been using a product called Zaino for about 5 years now. I tried it with my 00 Outback and all the claims were true: durability, shine and ease of appli. I continue to use it today on my 05 Outback XT. It too is a polymer product like Klasse. Application of Zaino is very similar to Klasse and suspect that they are similar in durability and shine. Also, same goes for Zaino...don't have to worry about getting it on plastics...because they claim its 100% optically clear. OK whatever. I use it because it works. Shine and durability is much, much better than the Meguiars, Mothers Gold Class or other "off-the-shelf" products I used to use.

Initial expense was higher than normal (about $100 cdn for complete kit) but with these products, less is better. My initial kit lasted me 4 1/2+ years, and the results outway the costs by a long shot. Its definitely worth it. Klasse or Zaino...I think you'll be much happier with the results than the store bought products.

In case you're interested, www.zainobros.com. There is a thread in Edmunds as well in Maintenance section where you can get help if needed. Just read with a grain of salt...some folks are a little fanatical about this stuff.

Cheers,
Jay.

hilbert

Thanks everybody. I ordered Klasse all-in-one and glaze protectant today.

Hilbert.

c_hunter

Most quick detailer products contain a lubricant so you can wipe stuff on/off without damaging the paint. I was skeptical at first too, but it works very well. Leaves the car feeling "just waxed".

I have to avoid using a hose spray because it will leave waterspots. So for me it's either spot cleanups with quick detailer or a full on wash and towel dry.

Craig

ateixeira

Congrats, jer.

Seems like the OB XT is a winner, they are really popular here. Is that just my impression, or does it seem to be the best selling model among Edmunds members?

-juice

kens

Yup, dish detergent won't hurt your paint. The whole point of using Dawn is to remove the cheapo stuff the dealer might have used.

The whole point to detailing is actually keeping you clearcoat protected.

I also use the quick mist detailers too. I keep a bottle in my car at all times so I can promptly remove paint-eating bird droppings immediately.

Craig: I use an acrylic based spray called Sonus. It contains the same ingredient that's in Klasse so it works even better. I sometimes use it after a wash to quickly add back that freshly Klassed look. I also use it to mist the applicator pad or to remove tough to buff spots.

Ken

rwoods

My Subaru's XM radio installation was totally botched up. I drove the car to Florida from NY hoping to have perfect reception but instead got static and other FM stations "bleeding" into the XM station. (88.5 FM). Needless to say I was disappointed and so I decided to take the car to an expert installer in Daytona Beach who quickly diagnosed that the XM radio was installed completely incorrectly. I planned on driving a few thousand miles on my vacation so I told him to reinstall it for $149. It now works perfectly. The problem with the dealer's installation were many and more than you would care to hear. Let's just say that they didn't have a clue. Now I've reported this to Subaru through their questionnaire and hope I get reimbursed but I'm very doubtful since I never gave them a second chance to fix the problem. The sound quality is awesome now though. I listen to classical music and love it.

PS I love the Three Stooges also.

ateixeira

I would call 800-SUBARU3 and open up a case number, ask them if you can be reimbursed.

It may be late, though. They might have found you a dealer in Florida to take care of that for you.

I believe that the warranty actually covers anything the dealer installs in the first 30 days, something like that. I added cruise to my Forester at the dealer, and they told me it would be covered by warranty, FWIW.

-juice

tsy

Removed my center console this weekend and fixed the squeak from the pieces of side trim. Put small strips of clear vinyl tape over all of the contact points and teflon grease in the clips.

No more squeaks! Much quieter again.

I'm getting a sound like rattling aluminum sheets from the center pod above the trip computer. Anyone else the same? I guess it's my next sound deadening project. ;-)

tom

ateixeira

Let me be the first to welcome you to the OCD Club. ;-)

Have you waxed the back side of your rims yet? The underside of the hood? Your door jambs?

-juice