Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

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Comments

  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Good point. The 2.5 turbo has relatively little lag and pulls linearly, especially with the 5MT.

     

    I agree that if you are on a tight budget and don't care about extra performance, the turbo or the H6 models are not right for you. The regular 2.5 engine is a Subaru workhorse, but I do feel it is a bit underpowered when mated to the 4-speed auto tranny pulling a Legacy chassis.

     

    It's also in need of an update. The JDM/European versions get AVCS (variable valve timing) which helps to broaden it's usable torque range. If it's possible, the 5-speed manual will better let you tap into it's power.

     

    Ken
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Ken-

     

    From that statement, do you regret getting the auto instead of the Manual tranny?

     

    Mark
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    From that statement, do you regret getting the auto instead of the Manual tranny?

     

    Not one bit.

     

    By nature of a torque converter, the 5EAT does cause some turbo lag, but not enough for it to be an issue for me. I just wanted to point out that it's almost non-existent with the 5MT.

     

    For my needs, the 5EAT is great. It shifts smoothly and quickly and is still a hoot to drive. That's the nice thing about having a stout engine -- it easily masks the inherent lag/loss from a torque converter.

     

    Ken
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Forester is cheaper and more tossable, so it's younger and more fun, IMO.

     

    Outback is a lot nicer and more refined, but it costs more.

     

    I still like the Forester, unbeatable value.

     

    Subaru may not be offering traction control on the other models because it would have to be integrated with the AWD system. VDC does this by design, but the other AWD systems do not.

     

    Competitors that have traction control, low budget ones anyway, usually only let the traction control act on one axle, the front axle, and disable it when AWD engages.

     

    Mercedes and Audi have this sorted out, but only at higher price levels, where VDC is standard.

     

    I don't think it's as simple as adding traction/stability control. It would fight with the AWD system.

     

    -juice
  • 63corvette63corvette Member Posts: 51
    "No all-season tire will work well in cold weather or on icy roads"

     

    Sly, I really don't think you can claim this is a valid statement untill and unless you have tried the new technology that is available, such as the Goodyear Assurance Triple Tred tire.

    This last weekend, we had an ice storm here, which covered everything. I tried driving slowly up and down my (10 degree slope) driveway.....which I could not walk down sithout slipping. I came to a full stop, and started from rest several times, as well as slowly driving aroung my neighborhood, and never slipped a tire, never engaged ABS nor had any symptoms of slippery conditions UNLESS I was trying to spin or slide the tires. For "All Season" tires in full winter conditions, their grip is outstanding. There is, or was a 30 day full price return guarantee, so if you are not convenced, you can return them and try something else. They are NOT magic however;-)
  • yatesjoyatesjo Member Posts: 186
    As of yesterday my wife and I are the proud owners of a Atlantic Blue Pearl 2005 Legacy 2.5i Ltd wagon. For CA spec car with manual tranny, Ltd package and auto-dimming mirror we we signed the dotted line for $24681.

    We like the solid feel of the car, quiet ride, AWD, and the intuitive placement of controls. I would have liked the GT, but the wife wasn't too keen on the added cost or me having that much fun in our family car. She will probably drive it more so I let her have her way.

    We were hoping for silver, but we wanted a manual on the Ltd wagon and this was the only car I could find in the entire SF bay area. We like the Atlantic Blue more than we though we would, but I'm worried it will show off the dirt and the inevitable scratches.
  • yatesjoyatesjo Member Posts: 186
    The dealer told me all that is needed is a score over 700 to get the financing.
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    Hi Jay,

     

    I'm very happy with the X-Ice. They are not as sticky on pure ice as the Blizzaks, but they are better in every other way. They are pretty quiet, provide decent dry hanlding, and excellent wet handling.

     

    On my dirt road, which is now hard-packed snow with icy patches, I can drive as fast as I could on dirt.

     

    Just this morning I pulled a brand new 4Runner V8 out of the snow bank. He had just done a 180. I didn;t even think it was slippery :)

     

    I would buy again.

     

    Sly
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    OK, perhaps some of the latest A/S tires are acceptable. But I guarantee you that an ice tire like the X-Ice or Blizzak will still blow it away. They simply use better technology.

     
    Given where I live, at the end of an icy dirt road with steep hills and tight curves, I will stick to my ice tires.

     

     

    Sly
  • 63corvette63corvette Member Posts: 51
    Sly, I agree completely with you that the Pure ice tires such as the Blizzak WS50 is better in snow and ice. I neever argued that. My only point is that for people who want a true ALL SEASON tire, and who live in a mild environment where they can use it, there is NOW a tire which can be used ALL year. And it has MUCH better dry and rain performance that any studded, and most full ice tires. I just didn't want to buy 4 new tires, and only get to drive on them 4 months a year, and only really NEED them maybe two weeks. I mentioned that we had a major ice storm with temperatures in the single digits over last weekend, but the terperatures are now in the high 50's, the ice and snow are melted, and all of the ski areas have closed! So much for winter 05!
  • tsytsy Member Posts: 1,551
    Congrats on your new car!

     

    The 2.5i with a manual tranny should be more than adequate. Atlantic Blue is a very nice color too- I have the silver and sometimes wish I got one of the Blues. Oh well.

     

    Enjoy your new ride. The GT is overkill anyway. I wanted a fast car without looking fast, but don't use more than 40% of the engine 90% of the time. (although that 10% is VERY entertaining!- still puts a smile on my face every time- and i've had mine for 7 months!)

     

    tom
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,701
    Hmm. I was going to respond, but there's really no point. All sides of this issue have been effectively presented and in the end it is really up to the drivers to decide which tires are best for each's situtation.

     

    One point though. Someone mentioned a few days ago that the biggest factor in how well a car handles is the tire/surface interface. That's not true. It's the competence of the driver. If you treat a car's handling ability (not theoretical, but actually on the road) like a weighted average..... tires can only make up for so much; there's a driver in there telling the car what to do and in the end that person will make it or break it.
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • cptpltcptplt Member Posts: 1,075
    if you want a decent "all season" that has certified snow traction rating, there is the Nokian WR.
  • cpickcpick Member Posts: 21
    What Bay Area dealer gave you that deal? Am interested in same car with auto! That price + 1000 for auto sounds real good...
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    I saw some nasty winter weather tonight. Believe it or not, we only got 1" of snow but it pretty much melted onto the roads and glazed over when the temp dropped (it was 28F when I drove home at 7pm est). I saw 8-10 single vehicle accidents which is not uncommon down here in VA -- combination of dumb drivers and limited sanding. It was clear people were going too fast based on the types of accidents I saw (truck clipped a telephone pole!).

     

    Anyway, the RE-92 were fine as far as all-seasons go, but it would have been nice to have some winter tires! I did notice that my OB XT, with VTD's 45/55 split, turns a lot better in slippery conditions than my previous 02 Outback that had active AWD. The 02 always understeered and plowed in slippery conditions. The 05 has slight understeer which can be pushed to neutral and then oversteer quite easily. I like it.

     

    Pretty annoying to see pickup trucks getting zero traction and sliding sideways at lights. Apparently traction control has not made it into RWD trucks yet...

     

    CRaig
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Hey, congratulations! I love Atlantic Blue -- I wish the offered it monotone in the Outbacks. 2.5i with MT is pretty peppy, I think you can still have a lot of fun with it.

     

    Craig
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,701
    Yeah Craig, that is annoying because (if for no other reason!) the people that do that glaze the intersection over real nice for all those who follow. That's not so bad, I guess, if it melts off rather soon, but up here it stays slippery for days/weeks/months..... All it takes is a gentle foot on the part of the driver and a couple hundred pounds of sand in the back if the rig doesn't have winter tires, though; traction-control or no.

     

    Wet ice is the worst kind of slippery; glad to hear you made it okay!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Hey, congrats on your new car! I'm not sure if you know, but Automobile magazine voted the Legacy as Family Car of the Year beating out heavyweights like the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry. Automobile noted it for having more power, a sweet shifter and a more upscale feel.

     

    Where in the Bay Area are you? Which dealer did you buy from? I work near San Jose and purchased from Santa Cruz Subaru.

     

    Ken
  • yatesjoyatesjo Member Posts: 186
    I'm in Campbell and bought the car at Carlson's Subaru in Redwood City. The deal was $200 below invoice... negociating with multiple dealers online really works!
  • katwaykatway Member Posts: 19
    Just thought I'd chime in that I took the Subie into our first snow storm this year in the DC area and it performed like a champ. Just to illustrate, I was exiting on an uphill offramp of a local express route when I encountered 3 cars stuck in the snow on the offramp (one of them a Ford Exploder). I simply weaved in and out of these cars and made my way to the top of the hill. No slipping whatsoever. I don't know if VDC helped, but I never felt it kick in. In any event, I knew this wagon would do well in the snow, but I was nevertheless extremely impressed with how well it did. Even my wife who doesn't know how to drive in snow (she's from Southern California) took it for a spin last night and was amazed that she could drive in snow so easily. Bad weather is clearly Subaru weather.
  • rsq798rsq798 Member Posts: 35
    On a totally unrelated topic, I was driving through northern VT on Monday when I thought I noticed my stereo display flashing. A couple more times later, I actually paid attention and noticed it displaying the volume instead of CD info. Then a minute later, it changed the volume on its own, from 9 to 13. Haven't noticed anything out of the ordinary since...

     

    It was truly bizarre and I am completely befuddled.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,701
    Bad weather is clearly Subaru weather.

     

    Amen to that!
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    You're not the only one to notice this -- I have seen it reported on other forums too. In some cases, it goes up and back down!

     

    Craig
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    There's also multiple reports of the whole radio/acc stack going black, until you turn the ignition off and restart.

     

    Sly
  • frankwfrankw Member Posts: 22
    According to the local Discount Tire store, Goodyear does not make the Assurance Triple Tred in the 225-55-17 size required for the OBXT. Are the Assurance Comfort Tred tires approximately as good?

     

    Frank
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    whew, I wouldn't buy a single Goodyear tire except for the Eagle F1 Supercar. In no other situation do I believe they run good value for the money... otherwise I'd buy Michelin in the high-end, or a LOT of other choices for more budget-priced tires.

     

    I'm extremely happy with my winter tires, Dunlop WinterSport M3.

     

    ~Colin
  • terrylterryl Member Posts: 34
    Hi there:

     

    I am hoping I can get some input on choosing between the two transmissions. I have read that there is a substantial turbo lag with the automatic. Is there any consensus about this? Also, can someone comment on the stereo quality? Thanks in advance!

     

    Terry
  • sdufordsduford Member Posts: 577
    Stereo quality is the same whether you have a manual or an automatic :)

     

    Just kidding.

     

    Both transmission are excellent, and ther is no difference in turbo lag: almost non-existent in both. What difference there is is that with a manual you can more easily keep the engine in the turbo boost range, so it is faster off the mark.

     

    The real question is whether or not you enjoy a stick shift. Also, if you are in situations where you need to crawl (pulling a boat out of water for example) the auto will be much better, as the manual is impossible to crawl wihtout slipping the clutch and stinking the inside of the car.

     

    Sly
  • krzysskrzyss Member Posts: 849
    Do you know that Goodyear owns Dunlop ?

     

    Krzys
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Folks, I am really hoping that any of you might be able to offer some friendly advice to a very disappointed Subaru fan.

     

    To make a long story as short as possible, in July of 2004, my parents (49 yrs old) were in the market for a new car, and wanted AWD, but preferably not an SUV. Liking cars, and becoming increasingly interested in Subaru's focused line, I directed them to the redesigned 2005 Legacy. Prior to this, my parents had mostly excellent experiences with Toyotas since 1986.

     

    At the 3000 mile service at Flemington Subaru, the vehicle was retained for a week due to a non-crippling but incredibly annoying problem- whenever the rear defogger was activated, the stereo would completely lose reception. After reviewing wiring, connections, the head unit, etc, it was deemed an issue with the rear window, and that was replaced. Problem solved. Flemington Subaru NJ was phenomenal during this time, and provided a Legacy rental car for the entire week ours was out of commission. This was in early November.

     

    Just yesterday, on January 19th , my father (the vehicle's primary driver) noted a strange burning odor as he pulled into work in Princeton, NJ. Upon looking under the hood, he noticed coolant spewed all over the engine, but also that the level of coolant in the resivoir had not dropped- it was still full. He called me, and I directed him to 1-800-SUBARU3, at which time they connected him to the nearest dealership (Nitti's Subaru in Hamilton Square, NJ). They told him to bring the car in immediately as long as it was driveable and the temperature gauge did not indicate a problem. He did so.(They provided him a loaner, from the rental agency across the street- a Mitsu Lancer. Fine, but no AWD, ABS, or side airbags- all features the Sube was purchased FOR).

     

    Today, he (my father) called me to report that he spoke with the mechanic who inspected our Legacy (VIN 4S3BL616X57200310 and 7,000 miles on the odo). The mechanic originally thought that the head gasket was the culprit. However, after further inspection of the block, it was revealed that one of the six 'studs' that go in the engine block was stripped, likely the result of overtorquing at the factory. This resulted in the lack of a true seal forming. So, the Head Gasket was not the issue, but rather the block itself.

     

    Bottom Line: Our Legacy will be out of service until next Thursday, as an ENTIRELY NEW BLOCK is going to be installed.

     

    I am not a mechanic, and neither is my dad, so I've tried to explain this to the best of my ability. But, to say the least, I am floored that this level of quality non-control could be allowed to occur. Additionally, I have serious reservations to the fact that this engine needs to be rebuilt after 7,000 miles. My parents are NOT satisfied customers, and are questioning whether its really a good idea to hang on to a vehicle with such a significant failure so early in its useful life.

     

    The advice I need is on how to proceed, as I dont feel that the repair itself is enough. This is a MAJOR repair, and I know from experience that once something like this has occured, it seems rare that the vehicle truly runs as well as it should. I want to believe in Subaru. Do folks here feel a letter to SoA is best, or a call to 1-800-SUBARU3 to voice my opinion? Honestly, what I believe is deserved is that Subaru offer an extended powertrain warranty free of charge.

     

    Needless to say, this experience has left my parents cold, and not very willing to consider Subaru anything in the future.

     

    For me personally, I am more saddened by this experience than anything else- as up to this point, I did love the car and had a great deal of respect for the company.

     

    -Joe
  • 63corvette63corvette Member Posts: 51
    Well my personal feeling is that ALL mechanical devices have failure modes, including Rolls Royce and Mercedes. Some are more expensive than others. The real tests are:

    1) is it an isolated problem (does it reecur often) or is it a "programatic error"?

    2) how does your dealer resolve this issue. Is it completely resolved to your satisfaction, and at no expense to you, and with minimum inconvenience.
  • sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    can't you get a new car using lemon law ?
  • subdensubden Member Posts: 40
    Totally agree with you about the Dunlop Wintersport M3. Nice tire. Handles real well in dry and and real grippy in snow and slop.

    Pete
  • jmtreetopjmtreetop Member Posts: 130
    Like said above, everything has a defect rate. Even Toyotas have had engine failures before their time. Nothing is perfect. Now try to make the best out of the situation. I would start with the dealer. If they aren't willing to do anything such as an extended warranty then I would call Subaru and negotiate with them. Being nice and professional usually gets you further than expressing anger. Another option is to sell the car but then again you will lose thousands of dollars in depreciation.
  • c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    Sounds like the dealer is doing everything they can. However, I agree with your comments 100% -- I know I would not feel too good about having an expensive new car with a rebuilt engine. I do think Subaru of America should try to compensate you for the trouble (such as the extended warranty you suggest).

     

    This would be a perfect case for Patti to get involved, but she is not on Edmunds anymore. Maybe Juice or Bob can offer advice.

     

    The folks at SOA are pretty reasonable in cases like this, and they do try to keep customers happy whenever possible. So it seems like they should be able to do something for you.

     

    Good luck!

     

    Craig
  • drdave25drdave25 Member Posts: 23
    Indeed! But just try to get a set! Nobody has them any more this year!
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    quote: Do you know that Goodyear owns Dunlop ?

    it's about as relevant as Michelin owning BFGoodrich, separate plants, separate products.

     

    I wouldn't buy a BFG except for the KD or KO, and I still believe that you can do better than a Goodyear when you look at price- or feature-based competitors.

     

    what's all the hype about this triple tred? did Consumer Reports rate it highly or something? :)

     

    ~Colin
  • frankwfrankw Member Posts: 22
    Re: triple tred

     

    Well, according to the TireRack survey they are best in category (passenger all season). But this is obviously a highly subjective question. In those consumer reviews a given tire can be called "the best I've ever owned" by one person and "the worst ..." by another.
  • andrewkandrewk Member Posts: 59
    Probably not at this point in time. I had numerous and persistent problems with a new GMC pick up back in '99. I was so frustrated an po'd I researched the lemon law in Indiana. As I recall, to be eligible, the dealer would have had to fail 3 times making the repair on a major component. I raised so much cane with the regional rep and threatened a lemon law suit he gave me a free extended warranty which gave me great peace of mind that if something major did occur I would be covered.
  • timo1745timo1745 Member Posts: 58
    Hey Joe-

     

    Sorry to hear of your folks' problem with their new Subaru. I'd have to agree with the advice/comments which have been offered by everyone else thus far; every automobile, no matter how reliable the product line or manufacturer, has its "mishaps" and sometimes even its "lemons". Which category their car falls into, I don't know. I have no doubt in my mind these are terrific cars, and in the lion's share of instances I've read/heard about, Subaru does do its best to take care of its customers. I know this doesn't make it any easier from where you're standing right now, but hang in there.

     

    As annoying as this may for you to continue working the 'customer service process', as has been said, "killing them with kindness" will go further than blowing up at them. Gentle perseverance will get you where you need to go. Sounds as though SoA should be contacted, if for nothing else, to be made aware of the situation, and to be provided the opportunity to get involved and make good on the situation.

     

    Pls keep us posted on how you fare. Also, where in NJ do you live? I'm in Bloomsbury, about 15 mins from Flemington Subaru.

     

    Rgds,

    Tim G.

    '05 OBXTL- 5MT

    7k miles and counting!
  • rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'm going to do a "copy & paste" and e-mail your post to Patti. I'm not sure what she can do, as she is now in a different area at SOA. I'm sure she will do whatever she can. Does she have a way of contacting you or your parents directly?

     

    Bob
  • locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    ah, I see why I've never previously heard of this tire. it is classed as a passenger all-season. how boring.

     

    I wouldn't put anything less than a performance all-season on a Legacy or Outback. it's not a minivan! the RE92s handle poorly enough, I can't imagine stepping down in sidewall firmness and dry grip.

     

    and those survey results are laughable. what's each person's basis for rating? I imagine they're a lot better than an Eagle RS-A that a lot of the survey responders driving domestics probably had OE, but the survey results are skewed by those who have never driven a better tire.

     

    ~Colin
  • timo1745timo1745 Member Posts: 58
    Just got an add for them in my inbox from Tirerack...I dunno' about you guys, but I'm ALWAYS looking for a better wiper solution for all my cars.

     

    Anyone hear anything good about these, or are they just another second-coming of "The Tornado"? For $39 (driver's side) and $24 (passenger's side), they'd better be able to make me a sandwich, too! :)

     

    Just curious,

    Tim G.

    '05 OBXTL-5MT
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Are they providing a loaner car in the interim?

     

    I dunno, I guess I'm a patient person but I'd wait and not rush them to get it right. I'd ask for them to test the engine extensively before returning it to me, the customer.

     

    You might also want to demand a full new car warranty for that engine, i.e. 5/60 from the delivery date of the new engine.

     

    -juice
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I truly appreciate the help and advice that everyone has offered.

     

    Bob, thank you for cutting and pasting the post and sending it on to Patti. I actually have her email address but was hesitant to send a communication to her as I am aware of the increased job demands that she's faced in her transition, and I also did not want to seem like some whiny customer looking for a freebie.

     

    With regard to all that have stated a defect rate is to be expected with all products, I completely agree and respect the viewpoint. My intention in posting the events was not to denigrate the Subaru brand. That said, after 7000 miles, I do not feel that 16 days out of service is acceptable, and with respect to the gravity of the current issue, have serious doubts as to the reliability of this vehicle in the future. My expectation, which I believe is reasonable, is that Subaru will make an effort to mitigate/allay this valid concern.

     

    I will also definitely heed the advice of those who have stated that gentle perserverance with SoA will be most effective. As stated, I am either going to compose a letter or call the Customer Service line. Most likely, it will be the latter, as work has been busy and talking to people is often more efficacious than not.

     

    timo- Sweet! An NJ native! A little about me, (cause its fun to talk about myself, lol). I'm 23, I graduated from school Dec 2003, started working in June 2004, and live at home (thankfully rent-free with the parents) in the Old Bridge area. I'm moving out in March though, because my current job (which Im actually not enthralled with) is rotational, and I will soon be working in Skillman, NJ. The commute from home would be way too much, so I'm moving to Princeton.

     

    This forum is frekin' AWESOME, btw.

     

    Thank you again

     

    -Joe
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    The loaner car is a 2004 Mitsubishi Lancer. No AWD, ABS, or side airbags- all items the Legacy was purchased for. Compounded that this weekend is supposed to be a big storm, likely affecting the commute Monday, and the Legacy won't be done until Thursday.

     

    I'm not rushing anyone. Since the time the vehicle went in, there has only been one communication with Nitti's (the dealership) in which they told us the vehicle needed a new block, and we'd have the car back in a week. There's not many option the consumer has when a car is undriveable, so we said fine.

     

    Some kind of warranty extension is exactly what Im after.

     

    -Joe
  • bat1161bat1161 Member Posts: 1,784
    Joe-

     

    Out of curiousity, have you tried talking with Diane at Flemington? I have always found them to be quite helpful regarding any work done on my OB. One of the reasons I travel 45 min. from SI to them:-).

     

    Here's hoping everything works out.

     

    Mark
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    No, I havent talked to Diane about it yet. Funny thing is, I had just called to schedule the 7500 mile servicing last week.. appt is for Jan 29th, but I will be cancelling that, as Nitti's is going to do it since the car is already there.

     

    The commute from Old Bridge to Flemington is also about 50 mins, but I really thought both she and Carlo did such an awesome job that Id happily have the Subaru serviced there for as long as I was living with my parents.

     

    Thanks, btw!

     

    -Joe
  • terrylterryl Member Posts: 34
    Thanks Sly! I actually am not super skilled with a manual so maybe automatic is the way to go. I had read, however, that some reviewers complained about intermittent high reving at highway speeds with the automatic.

     

    Appreciate your input.

     

    Terry
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Lancer ain't too bad, at least it's not a Neon or Cavalier. ;-)

     

    You should have asked for an EVO for the AWD. LOL

     

    Once they did give us a C240 4Matic wagon, when our Legacy wagon was recalled.

     

    -juice
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