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Having said that, the 05 Legacy GT suspension is quite a bit firmer. Combined with lower profile tires, the ride is fairly different compared to the base model. It probably would be possible to upgrade the base Legacy suspension bits to a GT, but it might be an expensive proposition. The wagon suspension is probably a little less stiff, also.
On a side note, USDM Subarus are tuned softer than their JDM counterparts, Legacy and WRXs alike, due to the wide range of road conditions here in the US.
A person who had the chance to drive a USDM and JDM Legacy GT confirmed this, but he did note that despite the softer suspension tuning, the USDM model does retain much of the handling characteristics of the JDM model.
Ken
Krzys
Just remember all-season tires are really no season tires and are compromised year round. If you want max handling in the summer get summer tires - if you want max traction in the winter get snows.
I don't have any good news for you.. The Bstone 950 isn't available in your size, I don't think..
There are some pretty decent H-rated tires in your size, but I don't like to go down in speed ratings.. I believe yours are V-rated.
The absolute best overall tire would be the Bridgestone Turanza LS-V.. but, these are expensive.. and I'm not they would give you outstanding snow traction... but, at least equal to the OEM tires you have...
I know the VDC is a powerful car.. but, since it is marketed as an all-season AWD car, the tire size they use is just goofy..
If you want to run H-rated (which is probably no problem), there are quite a few cheaper tires that would be decent..
regards,
kyfdx
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but if I bought a 225/55-17 it would be a Dunlop SP5000 for $132/ea from the tirerack.
~Colin
Of course, saying all that.. I did put Turanza LS-H on my Acura Legend... and it came with V-rated tires...
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I have H rated tires on my car right now. It came with W rated tires, and can actually hit 157mph. :-D
~c
I've been gone a while. Whew! Takes a long time to catch up.
I saw something interesting this weekend. I saw a silver monotone '05 OBXT. It's not supposed to be availabe in this color. It looked quite nice- I definitely like the monotone look over the 2 tone.
Before you all start asking if was it a GT, no it wasn't. (But initially I thought it was) I had to double check though.
Any ideas on where this guy got this car? Is it something to come or just a custom paint job?
Maybe Subaru should make it available?
tom
It only snows here 2-3 days a year at most, so I don't get winter tires. But I can't run summer tires those 2-3 days either, so I run all seasons. They're actually quite decent tires,much better than the RE-92s. I have a set of Toyo Proxes-4s and had a chance to run them in the snow here (about 4 inches) and I had no problems running up pretty steep hills with them. They do really well in the rain and are much better in dry conditions. They are also quieter than the stock RE-92s.
There must be a drawback, so I'm guessing they won't last more than 20K miles. But that's just me being pessimistic. I don't really know.
Other people rate the Pirelli P Zero Nero M+S tires well. I almost bought a set of these instead. They seem to do better in snow than the Proxes-4s.
I think the Falken's are noiser than these other 2 tires. But they do offer good grip at a much cheaper price.
tom
Also, during periods when I was experiencing this problem, if I accelerated using the cruise control lever while cruise control was engaged, the car never accelerated for more than a second before cruise control disengaged altogether! This was highly repeatable.
What's going on? Anybody else see this?
But, I agree.. for snowbird's type of driving, it should be fine.. and reasonably priced, as well..
regards,
kyfdx
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The Legacy suspension is softer than a base Impala. That is just sad. I think Subaru is losing their focus in their swim upmarket. As more and more AWD cars become available, they are going to lose a lot of dedicated customers. I'm not spending 30K just to get a safe suspension. I'm sure the GT and maybe the Outback are better, but I'm not even driving one to find out.
I think you'll find most of the crowd here is very quick to be enthusiastic about these cars. After all, that's what 'enthusiast' message boards are all about. That said, you may find that 'kens' isn't the only one here who may come-off as 'salemen-like' in some regards.
I'll agree with you that perhaps Subaru needs to be a little more cognizant of what the competition has to offer (feature-wise, value-wise, etc) since they're obviously breaking into an 'upscale' market for the first time. However, to be fair, I really think you need to compare 'apples to apples'; I don't know whether Subaru is truly targeting the base-Impala market with the base-Legacy. I do know that they're definitely targeting the Accord/Camry crowd because that market segment is MUCH higher than the market segment held by the base-Impala. To be honest, having driven a base-Impala, an Impala SS (as rental cars) and the Legacy GT and OBXT (and having bought the OBXT), I'm having a tough time understanding why anyone drawn to either of the Impala models would even consider the Legacy in the first place. Those 2 model cars are just totally different animals.
As for the higher-end Legacy line being "better", if you had bothered to try a Legacy GT, GT wagon or even an OBXT, not only might you have answered your own question, but I'm willing to bet you would've had a fun time doing it, too
Finally, if you're truly spending 30k on a base Legacy, you need to find another dealer. I bought my OBXT Limited for a hair over 31k. Let's be honest here--there's no one out there who's paying 30k for a base-Legacy.
Hope that helps,
Rgds,
Tim G.
'05 OBXTL-5MT
7800 miles and counting
For comfort, I would pick the Bridgestone Turanza LS-V. For performance, probably the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S. There's also a very good Yoko Avid H4S tire in between the two, but you'd have to step down a speed rating (probably not a big issue from V to H).
My biggest gripe about the RE-92A is that they are noisy. They are actually worse than the older RE-92 that came on my 02 Outback.
Craig
I also have a hard time comparing an Impala to a Legacy -- they Impala really only sells to people that want to buy a 4-door Chevrolet sedan. In any other respect, it's a very un-compelling vehicle. I also had one as a rental and it made me even more disappointed in GM.
Craig
* monotone silver, crystal gray, or atl blue
* larger gas tank by a couple gallons at least
* aux-in on the radio
* better tires
* improved climate control
* better/smaller keychain remotes (like the old ones)
Craig
Please tell me it isn't so!
Sorry, couldn't resist
Sly
If you get the chance to drive even a base Legacy on a winding road, you would be surprised. The soft suspension makes you think the car can't possibly handle - until you push it into a corner and it takes it at speed enough to scare you. To me the Subie gives the best of both: a soft ride for comfort, and superb handling and control. A car doesn't have to be hard-riding to handle well.
timo1745 said: Finally, if you're truly spending 30k on a base Legacy, you need to find another dealer. I bought my OBXT Limited for a hair over 31k. Let's be honest here--there's no one out there who's paying 30k for a base-Legacy.
Just to clafify. He didn't say a base Legacy was 30k. He said he's "not spending 30k just to get a safe suspension". He's implying that you have to buy a GT or Outback (for 30K) to get the "safe suspension".
DaveM
I'm not spending 30K just to get a safe suspension.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Are you saying that the base Legacy suspension is somehow not safe? Sure, it's not tuned for the track, but neither are any of the other vehicles in it's class (Camry, Accord). A hard suspension does not necessarily make a vehicle safer.
Ken
And here I thought Ken was one of the more even-minded ones....
Craig
* there should be a lit ring around the temp knobs (like the radio has around the vol knob). It's conspicuously missing from otherwise excellent illumination.
* the temp knobs should be linked until the passenger adjusts their side; no reason for the driver to turn two knobs when alone in the car.
* make the display panel "font" consistent with the radio (or vice-versa).
* better documentation or easier usage so we don't have to earn a PhD in climate control training (I earned mine in my previous 02 model, so I am tenured in the field)
* label 65=LO and 85=HI since that's what it really means
* listen to all the complainers and make the system work pleasantly for a wider audience
And that's all I will concede!
Craig
I purchased Falken Ziex ZE 512 tires from Vulcan Tire (good price!)in PA to replace the original Firestones on my wife's 2001 Malibu. The tires provided good traction, directional stability and a smooth, quiet ride for several months before the rest of the car started falling apart. So, I can't speak for the longevity, but for the remainder of the time we owned the Malibu (6 months, 8000 miles), the Falkens served us well.
I have not put Falkens on my Subaru yet, but I will consider them when the Bridgestones become worn.
-Jim
I would just add to the list: fix the temperature sensor so it reacts faster and put one on each side so it can function as a true dual-zone system.
Sly
My 05 Legacy cost me $20,200 plus sales tax. I think I got my money's worth.
-Jim
are you deliberately trying to take off abruptly? it's difficult to get that clunk any other way... but maybe you're still settling in and getting used to the car.
~c
The road I live on is a spur off the main (very winding) road. It is washboard dirt. The base Legacy was using ALL its travel at 15 MPH. This is unacceptable, and unsafe. Uncontrolled movement like that will eventually wear out and/or break suspension parts, as my neighbors who drive 25mph on the same road have found out!
I have no problem with the base Legacy being 20-22K, but I think the GT and Outback are way overpriced, and they are the only way to get a stiffer suspension on a Legacy.
I was only using the Impala as a comparison because I had one as a rental the week before I had the Legacy as a loaner. I'm not kidding, I liked the Impala suspension better than the Legacy.
Bottom line: Subaru needs to offer some way to get a more 'Subaru-like' suspension under the Legacy without charging close to 30K to get it. Meanwhile, I'll keep my WRX.
FJ60
'05 GT Lmt Wgn 5MT
the base Legacy is no Buick! it handles OK and it's not as if the WRX is stiffly sprung either-- a little more strut valving and larger swaybars are the only significant differences.
am I supposed to say that I prefer the handling of an Impala better than your WRX just because I drive an Evo? LOL
~Colin
The WRX has a LOT more strut valving, and doesn't lean nearly as much. It is night and day to a base Legacy. The WRX also has a much better on center feel, and fewer turns lock-to-lock. But it doesn't matter. I'm not looking for the equivalent of a WRX suspension, I'm looking for something that sucks up bumps without losing composure, like every other Subaru I've ever driven.
All I would have to do to make a base Legacy reasonable would be to gamble $2000 on new struts, swaybars and springs. Such a deal.
You're right, it isn't a Buick, OR an Impala.
I strongly encourage anyone who doesn't believe me to try a base Legacy on a washboard road. You will be using all the suspension travel at speeds much lower than previous Subarus. Maybe you don't care, and that's fine, but I'm guessing a significant number of 'traditional' Subaru buyers do care, and don't want to spend $3K-5K extra to fix the problem with an Outback or GT. A casualty of Subaru's conversion to quasi-luxury, I guess.
only the '05 STi has a fast rack. the rest of them are all the same, slow ratio and 3.2 turns LTL. even the '04 STi had it!
~Colin
I strongly encourage anyone who doesn't believe me to try a base Legacy on a washboard road. You will be using all the suspension travel at speeds much lower than previous Subarus.
You can get a base OBW for about $23k which would be more at home on washboard roads.
DaveM
The GT is a step up from the Rex, yes. It's much nicer inside, much quieter, more refined, comfortable, etc. But you have to pay for it. That's life. But you don't have to pay a lot for it, like Frank said, I think, a base GT is not much more than a WRX. A limited like I have is, but once again, I get a lot more for it. (not as good a value as the base, I think)
Thank you for all of your ranting and raving, but in the end that is all it is. It's your opinion and you're entitled to it. Just don't expect us all to agree.
BTW, Collin, you're right about the racks except the GTs are 2.8 turns LTL too. ;-) Not as fast as your Evo though!
tom
tom
The points I'm making are these:
1) The 2005 base Legacy is a freaking marshmallow. I don't care if the targets are the Accord and Camry. THE ACCORD AND CAMRY ARE NOT AWD.
2) In the past, many Subaru customers were swayed to Subaru by what? A) AWD
The lowest price on the minimum Legacy that will stand up to my road appears to be $24,300 for an Outback Wagon with no options. Try finding an Outback for that price in Colorado.
Bottom line: Once you get into the mid 20's, there are a lot of options, when you consider the bottom line after rebate prices. Pacifica, Magnum(eventually), A4, Ford 500/Montego, Passat, Volvo V50, Mazdaspeed 6, not to mention a gazillion mid-sized SUVs.
I've noticed that the new Legacys are not exactly flying off the lots around here. At some point the dealers will have to deal, but by then I'll probably have moved on.
Craig
Craig
Why do ya hafta have an 05 Subaru??????
I bought a brand new 2004 base Outback (with 3 pages of "standard" features on August 26th 2004 for $17340. I think it does everything an 05 does.....and some better.
Bottom line, if ya really want a Subaru, and it's really just a tool....so match that "tool" to your personal needs and usage. But...you DON'T need to pay over $20,000 for a BRAND NEW Subaru Outback Wagon, with the 2.5 N/A engine. It handles great. Go'on, try it, ya'll love it;-)
-B
Obviously, a repair of this magnitude at 7000 miles is never something to smile about, BUT, the Subaru experience certainly is.
It's well known that Subaru is looking to position itself upmarket, and in terms of customer service, in my experience, no improvement is necessary to join the ranks of the best in the business.
SoA clearly stands behind its vehicles when they perform less than acceptably- due to our vehicle's two significant repairs to date (and 15 days out of service), we were extended the offer for the Gold Plus Added Security package- at no additional charge. This kind of customer orientation is rare at the price level for which we purchased our modestly equipped Legacy 2.5i (at 21,300 plus tax and tags), and speaks volumes to the integrity of the manufacturer, in my opinion.
I can only imagine what kind of hoops I would have had to jump through to achieve a similar end result from Toyota or Nissan (our other vehicles...), and I cannot thank enough those on this board that offered advice (especially Bob and Craig!), as well as Patti and the rest of the Subaru folks, for turning a bad situation into a positive outcome.
Finally, Nitti's Subaru was outstanding-an accurate timeline was given for the repair, the senior technician who performed the repair detailed the work that had been done, and showed my father the old block.
Case closed.
-Joe
PS- I still think the Legacy is one of the most comprehensive packages for the money, all things considered, and is completely deserving of its All-Star Award as Best Family Car from Automobile Magazine.
There's no other mfr. that makes an AWD vehicle with so much value as a Subaru.
Good luck with your search.