Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

ssminton

rsorganize... I will let you know what the dealer says on the vibrations, for I have an appointment Monday. Although it has decreased, it is not gone.

 

I have a condo in Killington, VT.

ssminton

For the wiper problem... Subaru has replaced the blade assembly (several times) and even the blade arm with no improvement. The dealer has asked it to be reviewed by the regional Subaru rep. Hopefully our schedules with mesh in February.

 

Otherwise... windshield replacement is the next option... one that I would rather not take.

ssminton

The Subaru Outback VDC climate control is possessed! I have actually had both settings at an even temp and felt warm air coming out one side of the dash and cold air coming out the other? This is one of the only aspects of the car that I am disappointed with.

jmtreetop

I had vibrations in my front wheels (steering wheel would vibrate at highway speeds) and the dealership found that one of the wheels was out of balance. After rebalance, no vibrations.

sstevek

I never sat in an '05 Outback, but did notice in pictures and looking in one that was parked that the armrest at least appeared quite low. If I drive a vehicle without one, it feels like there's something essential missing. The armrest in my '98 Outback is fine, just the right height. I saw on Subaru's web site the armrest is an option on the Forester, didn't realize it was avaliable on the Outback. As mentioned elsewhere, the option should be standard.

smokingmagneto

Not sure when the "Turbo" kicks in, but I too have noticed a mpg increase when in the 65 mph range as opposed to the 80 mph range.

 

Now have just under 4,000 miles on our OBXT and all around mpg is inching up to just over 20 mpg (USA) in mixed freeway and city driving. We seem to be buying gas at around 300 miles, but have a comfortable reserve.

 

Surprisingly, although I drive a bit harder than my wife, ... I get slightly better gas mileage than she does. I get on it a bit harder and then "coast" while she accelerates slower and longer.

 

So far I am very impressed with the car. For reference, our other car is a 1995 Acura Legend, and the '05 OBXT replaced a 2000 Audi A4 Turbo. Before that we had owned two Saab 9000 Turbos. Previously we owned a '82 Subaru 2 wheel drive 4-m Legacy that was "bullet proof" as far as reliability went, but the torque engine needed 4 wheel drive since it had a lot of "wheel spin" when wet outside.

 

One thing that really impresses me, the heating. This car heats up right now compared to the Legend and other non-turbo cars that I have owned. Seat heaters are great too, seats are very comfortable for me at 5'9" and my wife at 5' even. We have always had problems finding cars that fit us both, but the OBXT does very well.

 

We had one rattle, traced it to the removable retracting rear cover cross bar being a bit loose. Took it off and rattle went away.

 

Although I like a 6 cylinder car, I like performance even more, and it is hard to beat a Turbo. Choosing between the Turbo H-4 and the H-6 was tough, but I am very pleased with our choice.

 

Eric.

beanboy

Having way too much in the snow! Wondering if I can get it into the single digits when I go ice racing in February...

 

-B

tsy

The engine is not working as hard at 65 as 80mph. Once you pass about 60mph most of the extra work the engine puts out is to overcome aerodynamic drag, which is why your fuel economy drops. Every car will have it's most efficient speed where gearing and aerodynamics are in balance and you'll get your best mileage (probably about 65 or 70 for the sedan, less for the wagon). I just don't know what it is for this car. To be honest with you, I don't really care, either. ;-) If fuel economy were my priority I would have bought a hybrid. ;-)

 

I know what you mean about the tough choice between engines. Sometimes I miss the smoothness of a 6, but right now I'm having much too much fun with the Turbo- definitely no regrets!

 

tom

tsy

Wow, SUV territory! ;-) (except it would be a high!)

 

tom

sduford

I agree with Craig, around 75-80 Mph the fuel consumption goes up dramatically. This car defnitely needs a 6th gear for highway cruising.

 

And I Craig said, it definitely needs a bigger fuel tank! I just drove 780 Kms this weekend on a retirn trip, and I had to refuel twice. I used to make that trip on one tank in my Volvo 850.

 

Sly

timo1745

Growing up, I think the first Subaru which really caught my attention was in the mid-to-late '70s. Some friends of my parents' had one of the U.S. Ski Team GL 4x4 wagons (the wife was on the U.S. Women's Team). I thought it was the coolest car, especially since my family's cars were big, American, RWD cars which sucked in the snow. I seem to recall it had a 3rd high-beam light built into the center grill under the Subaru badge (does this sound right to anyone here, or was I imagining this?) which retracted when not in use.

 

I guess the next model Subaru which really turned my head was the Brat 4x4 with the little jump seats in the back. Very slick. Another cool example of how 4WD didn't necessarily have to come in the form of a full-sized truck.

 

What year/model Subaru first got your attention, and why?

 

Tim G.

'05 OBXTL-5MT

rob_m

I did a lot of skiing in my 20's and 30's. I also own a Mustang which is totally impractical for NE winters. I stored it every year, and always had some sort of 'winter car', usually a Dodge Dart equipped with ski racks.

 

I was always intrigued by the number of Subarus in the ski area parking lots.

 

Long story short - I live on a hill. The Dart died, and I used the Mustang to go to work. It snowed, and the Mustang wouldn't make it up the hill to my house. The next day, I finally went out and bought a brand new 92 Loyale 4WD 5 speed wagon. Equipped it with a Kenwood sound system and ski racks. One of the best cars I ever owned.

 

Since then, I have bought a 96 Outback for my wife, replaced the Loyale with a 99 GT Sedan, replaced the 96 Outback with an 03 Outback, and am now looking to replace the 99 GT with an 05 GT.

 

Certainly not too far off-topic. Rob M.

c_hunter

I have to say it was the Outback in 1996/1997 or so (when they first came out). It seemed like the perfect car for my lifestyle. I was not impressed when I test drove one (Ltd/auto) and bought another Honda. But 3-4 years later, I bought a 2nd-generation cloth/5-spd 2000 Outback and kept on buying them! Had an 00 base model (now my parents car), an 02 LL Bean, and now an 05 XT. Wife had an 03 Forester and I had an 03 WRX, briefly. I think I will probably always have some sort of Subaru wagon in the family.

 

Craig

dsattler

I had a girlfriend with an early 1980's Subie wagon (don't know which one), and you just couldn't kill it. It had 300k, only one wiper worked, heater was a joke, windows leaked, but it started every morning. Took it to Buffalo, NY one Christmas and, even though it was FWD, never got stuck. I knew I'd own one someday. And I do.

ateixeira

Chuck: I can take off my coat, but then what about the kids, belted in to child safety seats?

 

A neighbor had a BRAT, and at first we'd laugh at the concept until he kept driving by dad's Buick Electra stuck in the snow. It was very humbling.

 

-juice

kyfdx

Being from the midwest... We liked to pronounce it Braht.. as in bratwurst..

 

Hee hee.. still do..

robr2

Chuck: I can take off my coat, but then what about the kids, belted in to child safety seats?

 

Open the windows, toughen 'em up. On the bright side, their lips will be so cold they won't be able to ask "Are we there yet?"

xwesx

Hahahah. Cruel, yet somehow sooooo tempting. Thankfully, my little guy isn't old enough to ask that question. Yet.

 

My parents had a 1980 Subaru GL wagon, purchased new. They owned it until summer 1987 when it was totaled in a head-on collision. I always thought it was a great car from my childhood perspective. They replaced it with an '85 Camry and I always missed the cargo space of the wagon.

 

Wagons are definitely a good choice for a single car family, and the Subaru is probably the best choice amongst the wagons, esp. with 6 months of winter!

checkitout

Kens

 

You stated "I think you're mixing up the base Legacy with the Legacy GT. The base Legacy is definetly playing in the same arena as the Accord and Camry. I don't think most people who are looking at the base model are going to put as much weight on sport as those who shop for the Legacy GT.

People who are shopping for G35s, BMWs, Acuras or to upgrade their WRX are probably going to look at the Legacy GT, not the base Legacy.

It was the Legacy GT at the C&D event, not the base model. "

 

I know the difference between the base Legacy and the GT. I know that the C&D event had the GT. The couple of times I have driven the Legacy they were all in a GT.

 

My point is that the GT suspension has been detuned slightly. You yourself admitted to this on 9/4/04:

     "The Legacy not suprisingly took top honors in the power department. Where it lost points was in the suspension and handling area. I suspect that the GT is tuned a bit softer than some of the other models and combined with Subaru's long travel suspension and the RE92s, it would diminish any hard-core driving. "

 

ateixeira, "Legacy GT Limited vs. Acura TSX and TL" #161, 30 Aug 2004 10:24 am

 

So it is not just my opinion or the opinion of others, but even some of the positive reviews that the GT has gotten have also mentioned an over boosted steering, and body roll. e.g. Motor trend and R&T.

    Motor Trend said "But its [GT] steering feels darty and overboosted, with more quickness than feel and feedback, making us tentative in fast sweepers on the outside lane of the mountain road. We had no such complaints with Japanese-spec 2.0-liter turbo Legacy GTs last year at the Fuji racetrack ("First Drive," October 2003).

 

I am not bashing the Legacy. There is a very high probability that I will buy it. I mean, what other car gets you so much performance for 24-28K? Its suspension and steering are not that bad but I did notice that the GT had a slightly more slushy suspension and an overboosted steering compared to the 325i. I have also noted these minor quips when comparing it to my brothers WRX. These things are not a deal breaker for me, but they did cause some slight dissapointment. That's all.

checkitout

BTW, I am not stalking your old messages. hehe. I was catching up on the TSX v. GT board when I came across your old message.

 

Nelson

tsy

Actually once you get used to the suspension roll and replace the tires, and get used to the quicker steering you can really hustle this car through the curves. But it's not a Porsche, and not even a BMW. And although it's 'softened' from the JDM market, it does make a very comfortable car. A disappointment to me at first too, but it just means you need to be a more skilled (read smooth) driver to drive fast, that's all. ;-)

 

BTW, the suspension is easily fixed with a set of coilovers, which would give you much better handling than a BMW, G35, or TSX/TL and still have paid less! (I'm considering changing out my springs and maybe the struts myself)

 

tom

kens

checkitout:

 

Okay, got your points. I wasn't sure if you realized that the base model and GT had different tuning based on your message.

 

Yeah, the GT probably isn't tuned hard enough for people who really want very cutting edge handling. Our own Colin also mentioned that he would have seriously considered the GT over the Evo had it come with a sport suspension option.

 

But the GT is probably far more "sport" for 80% of the owners out there including myself that use it as a daily driver and family vehicle. While I would love sharper handling and less body roll too, I don't think I would want it at the cost of a bone-jarring ride. The base Legacy is tuned right there around the CamCord marketspace and the GT probably a few notches above in the A4/TSX area.

 

Over at Legacygt.com (have you been there?) there are lots of folks with concerns similar to yours that have taken on to a few simple modifications to improve handling. The most popular one seems to be swapping out the rear sway bar for the JDM version. The sky's the limit on how much of a track car you want to make it, but from what I've gleaned from Paul Hansen's review, the USDM Legacy GT isn't too far away from the Spec B JDM version.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if Subaru did offer an STi-like package for the GT in a few years. It all depends on demand and the competition. Are you planning on buying soon?

 

Ken

tickman

When I have all of the heat directed to the floor on my '05 OBXT, both my wife and I complain of cold feet. With the fan running full blast and all air directed down, there seems to be very little air getting out of the floor ducts. Defrost and dash ducts blow plenty of air when selected. Has anyone else noticed this?

 

Rick

ateixeira

Nelson: that link was to an unrelated old message of mine???

 

Here is my review of the Legacy GT. I had the privilege of taking a 5MT and 5EAT sedan out on the Las Vegas Motor Speedway infield track. The car was beyond my limited capabilities, but I still hit 100+ mph on the short straight.

 

It had enough torque to power slide out of the last corner before the straight.

 

ateixeira, "Town Hall Test Drive Team" #109, 20 May 2004 9:42 pm

 

The GT has a quicker steering ratio than the 2.5i, and lower profile tires on 1" bigger rims. Probably slightly stiffer springs.

 

Did they leave room for an STi above the Legacy GT? Sure, I think so, but the GT is the gentleman's sports sedan, still livable on days when you're not at the track.

 

-juice

orangelebaron

The sticker on the door says 30 or 32 psi...

Is 35 psi too high? Tires seemed soft, so I put that much in thinking it would help the low mpg... but it didn't seem to help according to trip computer.

crashton6

You didn't mention the kids. That does put a whole new spin on your climate control issue. Good luck. ;-)

 

Chuck

bac4uw

Yes... my wife and I have complained about about this as well in our 05 OB 2.5i. The problem seems to be intermittent to me though... there are definitely times when the floor heat is working. But then there are times when my toes are numb -- all without changing the 'directed down' setting. Very strange indeed.

 

Bryan

ssminton

I am convinced that subaru put such powerful seat heaters in to compensate for the let me repeat "possessed" climate control. Just turn the thing off on the highway. Somehow the car warms best with the system off and air just entering the cabin through the airflow. It is always quite warm. The problem is that this plan does not work well below 60mph.

ssminton

Took the 05 VDC in today for a check up. The mysterious tire vibration, although claimed nothing was found, is somehow now fixed? Good news on the wiper problem... the dealers finally have the 05 winter blades in. This seems to solve my back-wipe smearing. Maybe it is that flat plate on the driver's wiper, which is not on the winter blade that was causing the problem. Any thoughts?

samiam_68

Heating and cooling is not rocket science. Cars have had it for decades. For some reason, Subaru is the only make I'm familiar with that still can't get something this simple to operate properly. I'm sure consumers are happy paying for a feature so that they can turn it off or be fried or frozen...lol

smokingmagneto

Not altogether sure a 6th gear would help all that much in improving gas mileage since I agree with others about most of the mpg loss is related to aerodynamic drag, and that increases with the square of the velocity, ... or something like that.

 

Anyway, my thinking is that if you slow down the engine to much, it might drop out of an efficient power band and burn more fuel.

 

A bit of drag reduction might be more helpful. In case you are wondering, .... I have no ideas on how to do that.

 

I like the bigger tank idea, wonder if one could be made to fit. Wonder what it would cost!

 

Still, given a choice, I would not want to give up any performance for another couple of miles per gallon. The added cost factor is not that great, at least not at this time.

 

Probably the best "cheap" solution is to get a turbo gage and learn how to drive efficiently using it.

 

My old turbo Saab(s) could go about 400 miles between fill ups, and that was great!

 

Eric.

jmtreetop

Regarding a 6th gear, in many vehicles that I have researched with a 6th gear, the 6th gear was the same ratio as the old 5th gear, just that the other gears are now shorter - closer ratio (i.e. you will go through the gears faster) I suppose it varies by manufacturer though but I agree that by just having a 6th gear, you won't necessarily realize mpg gain.

timo1745

orangelebaron-

 

I don't think 35 PSI is "too high" personally. And don't take your trip computer's mileage reading as "gospel"; they're not that exact. You're better off doing the old 'divide gallons used and miles driven' calculation at fill-up if you're looking for your true MPGs.

 

I've always run my cars' and trucks' tires a little higher than the door sticker stated, primarily because it always seemed to improve gas mileage a little, offer better handling (better hydroplaning resistance, too) not to mention better tire wear, as well.

 

I'd recommend trying it out. If you find your tires aren't gripping as well, for example during wet breaking, maybe let a pound or so out and see how that works for you. Besides, as long as you don't exceed the tires' maximum inflation pressure, keep in mind that more tire failures occur from under-inflation than over-inflation. This is because the heat build up on a tire increases exponentially with under-inflation and/or added load.

 

Hope that helps,

Tim G.

'05 OBXTL-5MT

dcm61

Steve_host must be slipping. He has not posted his seasonal reminder to change over to winter air. ;-)

 

DaveM <still needs to add his winter air>

dudleyr

A 6th gear would definately help with mpg. The engine is plenty efficient down as low as 2,000 rpm. As long as it is not lugging it is fine.

 

A Toyota Corolla revs at 2650 rpm at 80 mph. No reason the Sube can't have a taller gear. The problem is that when people have to downshift they will have the perception that the car is not powerfull - that is why manufacturers tend to make their manual tranny cars rev high on the highway.

ateixeira

Yeah, Chuck, I guess I need 4 zone climate control with individual "pods" to seperate each of us!

 

-juice

occking

I agree. Took my 2.5 LTD to Albany NY yesterday. Up in the hills Western MA temperature dipped to just about 0. Constant fogging up of windows. Only way to clear them is to put on defroster full blast. Clears front windshield in no time but you have to blast the car with heat to get the side windows defrosted. Turn it off, & they fog up again. Maybe I will try the RainX designed for interior windows.

 

The heating system is terrible. No heat comes out the floor when you use the setting for part out the vents and part out the floor. Can't get a good temperature setting with which I am comfortable. Don't like a lot of heat but feet can really get cold. Never had a car like this. Sounds like a real common problem.

frazier1

new to the board. Just got our 05OBXT last week. Drove to the mountains and experienced the freezing nozzles below 28F (according to the onboard computer). I plan to flush the system and put in my own fluid so I know what's in there, then test again. This was a very frustrating situation. Not only is it dangerous when the roads are wet but this is a new car. I hope it's not a design problem with the system. Any advice on how to flush the system, short of spraying all the fluid on the windshiled? I assume there is a drain plug, but don't have the luxury of looking right now as my wife snuck away to work with the new car today.

orangelebaron

as it warms up... keep spraying the wiper fluid until you feel you got enough out. Then replace. Just remember not to prop the hood up on a windy day or else the hood may slam back against the windshield and bend the corners of the hood (what happened to me).

 

Since I replaced the fluid, it's fine at 10°F. So it was definately either the factory and/or the dealer who put in the diluted fluid. Complain to Subaru and the dealer. No excuse for this stupidity.

orangelebaron

Thanks, Timo.

ateixeira

My fluid freezes when it gets really chilly also. The blue stuff is supposed to protect to 20 below freezing, but we get below that some times.

 

Prestone makes some yellow (or was it pink?) stuff that is supposed to protect to 40 below freezing, that ought to work better for those in truly frigid conditions.

 

To prevent interior fogging, I keep my (manual A/C) on fresh air, temp on hot, and occasionally turn on the A/C compressor to dehumidify the air. The air still comes out warm, but it works to defog.

 

In fact I only cycle on the A/C for 15-20 seconds every 15 minutes or so, and that's enough to keep it clear.

 

Try something like that.

 

-juice

ateixeira

Google is your friend:

 

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0002JN178/103-0919- 477-4199865?v=glance

 

temperatures as low as -34°F

 

There you go. $7, so you really get what you pay for. The $1 stuff at Wal-Mart can only do so much.

 

-juice

robr2

juice - I get that Prestone fluid at Autozone for like $4-$5. Right now, I have some RainX orange stuff - about the same price.

 

The blue stuff is supposed to protect to 20 below freezing, but we get below that some times. It gets that cold in DC??

ateixeira

Note I said 20 below freezing, so that's 12 degrees F above zero.

 

So the Prestone stuff is rated for 46 degrees cooler temps!

 

-juice

robr2

20 below freezing - OK. I guess I'm conditioned to read 20 below and skipping the freezing part.

rwoods

Craig,

 

Don't you just hate when the wife starts pressing buttons while you are driving? My wife loves to play with all the goodies until they are screwed up. Then I'm forced to restore order to my domain. But if I ever borrow her Audi A4 and fail to return everything to its rightful place I will hear about it over the dinner table.

twrx

I have an 05 2.5i ltd legacy wagon. I don't find the climate system to be too bad. I generally in this weather go manual by setting the mode to the foot mode. Between my wife and I we use about a 5 degree temp. difference on the settings. Seems to put out plenty of heat. No fogging problems either. In fact the side windows in back in my 2002 WRX wagon fogged up worse. My biggest weather related gripe was that in a severe snow storm that we had in December I could not keep the washer jets free of snow. The wipers direct snow down into the trough where the wipers park and since the spray type washers are down there they get burried in snow easily. Give me a streaming washer mounted on the hood anyday.

 

As to mpg. I have 5000 miles on the car which is an automatic. The trip computer seems to read about 1 mpg high. I am getting about 22.2 on it on average so 21.2 seems about what it is. This is for city driving. So I am about one mpg low. As to the highway I have seen as high as 28 so that puts me realistically about 3 mpg south of the EPA number. But I can tell you that my Subarus pick up at 10,000 and again about 20,000. In fact at 20,000 I was getting 29 highway on my 2003 WRX here in the midwest which was 2mpg+ EPA. So I am not too sorry about trading some horsepower (especially since I am really impressed as to how much power the "weak" 168 hp NA engine has.) because I am expecting to get good mileage this summer at high altitude when I go to Colorado. I should be able to break the 30 mpg barrier (my wrx averaged 30 mpg all the way back from Utah to Indiana at 70 mph. Some tanks exceeded 32 mpg and no tank was less than 29 on that 1500 mile run). (OK, it is 5000 ft. downhill!)

 

formerly "TWRX" now "Ag-Ltd"

rwoods

Craig,

 

I've never been troubled by the lack of range in my OBXT because I need to take a break after about 150 miles of driving anyway as my legs and hands need a break. So I get gas and resume the trip. Actually I like to use the trip timer and stop every two hours just to loosen up.

 

bob

sweet_subie

folks,

i am getting quotes for 3,000 below MSRP on XT Ltd. in boston area.

 

anyone got better offers than this ?

sweet_subie

when defrost, turn off the internal air. defrost makes a big difference.