Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

drdave25

We have an absolutely awesome dealer in Northtown Subaru here, where you will get your OB at a better price than you could ever get in Boulder. Plus, you'll get to see Niagara Falls (beautiful any time of year) and a chance to try it in winter conditions on your way back from Buffalo.

tsy

Thanks, Craig. Yeah, I thought about your door when I saw my bumper. (strange consolation, huh?) Unfortunately, it's one of those deep scrapes that takes the paint off down to the plastic. But I will see what my local body shop can do. :-)

 

tom

sduford

Did it make the keyfob buttons less sensitive?

rob_m

Probably not, but i'd guess that the car was locking and unlocking during the wash cycle!

rsholland

Glad everything worked out Joe.

 

Bob

andrewk

I got my '05 OB base for $22083, no options, but the dealer threw in all-weather mats.

timo1745

Hey andrewk-

 

Out of curiosity, do your Subaru all-weather mats fit correctly? My wife got me a set for my OBXT for Christmas and they fit horribly; almost like they're made for a diff't model, but the dealer insists they're the correct set for my car. I've had generic all-weather mats fit my other cars better than these model-specific mats fit my Subie.

 

Thanks,

Tim G.

tsy

I have the all weather mats on my GT. The fronts fit perfectly, but the rear mats leave something to be desired, as they are not shaped perfectly.

 

hope you got the right mats.

 

tom

scottl

Umm.. Thats Boulder, COLORADO. I won't be buying in Buffalo anytime soon.

 

And to the response about none of the cars listed be available in the mid-20's: yes they are, or will be by the end of the model year. Especially the US cars. I was sorely tempted to get a 2004 Pontiac GTO (Really an Aussie Holden Monaro, RWD, 350hp, 6-speed, luxo interior, a toy car, not a practical one) for 10K off of MSRP. It is startling to see how desperate some dealers are to get rid of cars these days. I fully expect the AWD Ford/Mercury to be on fire sale by the end of the year. The Magnum, maybe. The Mazda, probably. BTW, I had a 1988 Mazda 323GTX, and it handled the road nicely.

locke2c

I wouldn't buy an '04 GTO, the '05 changed too much. Even $10k off is not enough incentive, not nearly.

 

~c

kens

Scott,

 

I haven't driven a 05 2.5i Legacy yet, but I find it hard to believe that it would be vastly different than past Legacys. Have you tried out any previous generation Legacys to see if they're any different?

 

I'm not sure if I agree with you that people are swayed to Subaru for their ability to handle "severe duty". Foul weather, perhaps, but if you're taking about continuous use on rutted fire roads I would disagree. I believe people buy Subaru because they offer certain features and performance not available in vehicles of similar class and price range.

 

Not all Subies are designed for the same kind of use. The Outback and Forester are going to be better suited for light off roading. The WRX and GT for spirited driving and the base Legacy and Impreza for sensible on-road transportation. If you compare each model for vehicles in their class, I think Subaru tends to come out ahead on a feature/price ratio.

 

Also, not every car make is going to fit your particular needs. While I think it's great that you're trying to find a Subaru that suit your use model, I think you're asking for Outback features at a base Legacy price. If you do find a different model at a price that works better for your application, then that might be the logical choice.

 

Ken

kyfdx

'88 323GTX.. I had one also.. bought it used in '94.. That car was a hoot.. intercooled turbo, 16v, AWD with manually locking center-diff.. I think they only sold 5K total for '88-'89... IIRC, about 132 hp?

ateixeira

GTO is $10k off MSRP because the basic design dates back to a 1993 Opel. The costs were written off 12 years ago!

 

You're basically buying an immensely powerful engine strapped to a 12 year old chassis. Kinda scary once you think about that for a minute.

 

Consider buying a new GT sedan (non-limited) from out of town and driving it back. I see them for $24k or so around here, though MD to CO is a long drive.

 

Prices are high in CO because demand is so great, but that's because they're more suitable for the snow than any GTO would ever be.

 

-juice

scottl

As a former owner of a 1970 428SCJ Mustang, and current owner of a 1969 390 AMX, I can tell you the GTO is way, way beyond any RWD car I've ever driven. Yes, it is based on the Opel/Holden/Catera, but that isn't all bad. A new shifter, some stickier tires, and that car is ready to rock...in the summer. I would submit that 350HP, a good 6-speed, IRS, a beautiful interior, and a 200W Blaupunkt stereo is a pretty good package for $23K.

 

Of course, the '05 with bigger brakes and 400HP is even more tempting. If those get down to $23K, I'm buying.

kyfdx

My co-worker paid MSRP for the first one in town, last January.... I told him he was nuts..

scottl

Yes, the 323 was only about 130hp, but the low gearing helped. I actually curse the WRX creeping up my hill in deep snow a lot more than I cursed the 323. Of course, it was a lot lighter.

 

The 323GTX was a minor cult item in Colorado. I used to see them all the time, but I haven't seen one in a few years. I talked to a very elderly woman in Boulder in about 1995 driving a white one with 7000 miles on it. I gave her my card and asked to to call me if she ever wanted to sell it. She was a riot. She said "I'll never sell my little pocket rocket!".

 

I sure wish the WRX was geared down. I really don't need a theoretical top speed of 170mph or whatever. I think it is geared as it is strictly for 0-60 times.

 

I'm guessing any of the 2.5 Legacys would be better than the WRX for really low speed torque. The loaner I had was a auto, so I couldn't really tell.

tsy

As much as I'd like to continue the talk about the GTO, (I wouldn't mind one myself as an extra car) I think this thread hijack has gone on a little long. ;-)

 

tom

locke2c

so you've driven two old musclecars. I owned a number of those myself...

 

have you driven any modern RWD cars like a G35, an M3 (or even 330), or Corvette (C5 is fine).

 

I drove a GTO and it wasn't all that special. It's neat, but nowhere near $32,000 neat.

 

 
doh... sorry, good point about the hijack. buy a Legacy GT!

~Colin

scottl

Umm, that was $23,000, not $32,000........

locke2c

MSRP is most definitely $32,000. What I was opining was that it still wasn't worth $23,000 for an '04, because before very long there will be DEEP discounts on the '05 as well.

 

And the '05 is much more car. But enough about the GTO--

 

~c

kyfdx

I think it would be worth $23K... and, I'm not saying what... so, I'm sort of on topic...

gxb159

Tim,

 

I had the same problem. The dealer gave me mats from an Impreza Outback. THe fit was horrible. I took them in a week later and they gave me the correct set. The correct ones fit perfectly and work great.

 

-Allen

rwoods

I'm totally satisfied with my '05 OBXT ltd's ACC after three months. Both a/c and heat have been excellent and I'm comparing it to my wife's Audi A4 and my Lexus GS430.

 

Even the RE92 tires haven't done too much to make me complain. But then I'm too conservative to be much of a test driver. Someone who is aggressive might have more to say on the tires...and many have.

 

Bob

rwoods

Even after three months I still marvel at the beauty of my OBXT Ltd. When I walk the dog at night and pass the rear end of the wagon I simply am amazed at how beautiful the lines are. It turns my head as a walk down the street and I actually look forward to returning to see it's shape again. The alloy wheels do alot to enhance the package. I look for any chance to go for a ride these days now that the snow is all around. What great fun.

 

Bob

xwesx

I used to think the same thing about the lines until I saw a two-tone green one. Ugh those things are hideous. The lines don't even save them. Strictly my opinon, of course!

 

I am actually disappointed that you cannot get an '05 in a deep (rich) red, blue, or green. The color choice is one thing I highly prefer about the older models.

occking

Actually, very unhappy with the heating situation on my 05 wagon 2.5I ltd. I am not one that likes a lot of heat, but it is either way too warm or the opposite. Also, have never had a vehicle in which the front windshield fogs up so often. Constantly turning the defroster in for a few moments constantly. Heated seats are way to warm, even at the lowest setting. I suppose if you like a lot of heat, this car throws more heat into the front seating area than any vehicle I have ever owned, and it only takes a few moments to warm up.

 

Amy comments on gas mileage out there? I was hoping for somewhat better than I have gotten. A few times on long trips averaged 25 mpg, but a bew times in less highway/more short trips down around 20 & even a little below. Of course, the extremely cold weather I am sure cuts down on the gas mileage as well.

 

Four weeks today & approaching 2500 miles.

tsy

Actually, we like our car nice and toasty! So for us the seat heaters have been great! I can't say the ACC is perfect, but certainly adequate. It is weird, though, how this car fogs up it's windows so easily. Not sure why.

 

The mileage gets better as the engine loosens up. Did a lot of freeway driving this past weekend and got close to 28mpg with my GT. That's not driving slow either!

 

tom

checkitout

kens

 

"I'm not quite sure what you mean by that. Are you saying that the base Legacy suspension is somehow not safe? Sure, it's not tuned for the track, but neither are any of the other vehicles in it's class (Camry, Accord). "

 

But most people looking for a real sporty sedan are not looking at the Camry or Accord. Many people want BMW 3 series type of handling. Also, older WRX buyers are looking to upgrade and they are looking at the G35, BMW, Acuras and the Legacy.

IMO, it is a mistake for Subaru to aim at Camry/Accord level handling and suspension. BMW has shown that a make can be very popular and yet it does not have to placate the lowest common denominator. I am not saying Subaru has done so or that Camry and Accord are the LCD, but I am saying that there is a big difference in sport between a Camry and cars like a G35 or 330-325i etc.

 

During the Car and Driver Volvo, BMW, Legacy drive and ride comparo that took place last year I noticed a difference between the BMW and the Legacy. The Legacy was really fast, but the steering was too light, too assisted. Also the BMW was more tossable and felt more stable.

     My brother owns a WRX and I can tell that the WRX has a more 'tight' handling and steering than the Legacy GT's that I've driven. i.e., less assisted steering and a slightly sturdier suspension. To be fair, two weeks ago I test drove another GT limited in city streets at not too illegal speeds and this time the Legacy felt really good.

    I have also read in several places that there is a big difference between JDM and the USDM Legacy as it pertains to handling/suspension. One can not use "lousy US roads" as the scapegoat for the difference. The fact that BMW and other makes do offer a sporty suspension even in the base US models is evidence, imo, that the "lousy US roads" excuse lacks traction.

 

Anyway, cool thread. Nelson.

c_hunter

Joe, glad to hear it turned out OK. SOA earned customers for life when they fixed my parents' Outback out of warranty, so I hope the same thing happens here.

 

Craig

c_hunter

You're not using recirc a lot are you?? Because numerous people on another forum reported fogging problems and it turns out they were using recirc all the time. I beleive it notes in the manual that using recirc can cause fogging, so be sure to use the fresh air setting if you are having that problem.

 

I have not had any fogging problems on my 05 Outback in the 7 months I have owned it, except for when my wife started messing with the climate control and turned recirc on! For those folks griping about ACC, the "wife" CC is even worse!

 

Craig

occking

I will try the fresh air setting; maybe that has been my problem. Still I am having a hard time in this cold weather we have been having last few days getting car "comfortable." Not looking for a lot of heat, just to keep things even. Either too much coming out bottom or not enough & it gets cold. Constantly playing around with the different modes. Just never had a problem like this with any other car.

andrewk

Tim G, they fit fine; same exact size as the carpeted ones. A set came as an option on my wife's '02 Legacy and I really like them.

 

-Andrew

ssminton

It has been a while since I have been on the boards. Already 13K miles on my 05 VDC. I am surprised to see all the winter tire complaints. I live in PA/VT, and my only complaint with the tires is that they tend to allow ice build up in the tread which results in some performance decrease but more annoying is an "out of balance" harmonic.

 

This is my first Subie as I am a converted SUV owner. I have found my VDC to be exceptional in winter driving. I find the "sport" and "manual" modes to be the best for any snow driving. I feel that I have complete control at my fingertips. So far, my VDC system has only kicked in once and that was while accelerating from still at a stoplight. Overall, I am satisfied with winter driving.

 

I too have had problem with washer fluid icing. The problem seems to be that the vehicles were delivered from the factory with "water". The washer fluid system seems to hold on to the old stuff no matter how much "deicer" you add. I have written with a Sharpie on the fill lid "Do not fill" Hopefully this will keep my overeager dealer under control. I think they are inadvertantly contaminating the system.

 

My only ongoing complaint with the 05 is that my wiper does not clear the driver's windshield on the back-wipe. This has been going on since I took delivery last July. No one can seem to rectify it. Any thoughts?

ssminton

Heated seats are toasty, and I agree the Subaru automatic climate control system is the worst that I have experienced in a car. One of the other winter challenges is that the lowest temp 65F automatically puts the system into a max cooling scenario. Who needs full blast AC when it is 0F outside. I find that the 66F position is too warm when you are dressed for winter.

 

For me, the most comfortable for cold weather driving is to actually turn the climate control off when moving at highway speeds. You will still get heat with "flow through". This plus the heated seats seems to work best for me. Otherwise, I feel like I am messing with the temperature control all the time.

 

Subaru swears to me that the climate control system is not connected to the outside air temperature though I find this odd since every other car that I have owned is connected. The outsdide temperature sensor has some problems. I personally think this stresses the climate control system.

ssminton

rsorganize... have you solved your VDC vibration yet? I have the same problem. I assumed it was ice build up in the tread. Our roads have been drier over the past few days and we got near freezing yesterday. Although the vibration has improved, it is still present. I have an appointment to get it checked on Monday. I figured maybe a tire wasn't mounted tightly and with much snow covered road driving over the past month, the tires had become out of balance?

ssminton

For Thule ski racks... The standard Thule "factory rack" adapter should fit the OB crossbar fine. When you buy the ski rack, it comes with both a Thule bar attachment and a factory rack attachement. However, my recommendation is to get a roof box. The Thule Evolution 1600 fits great on the OB... no mess, no fuss, no noise... go box! If anyone needs a set of Thule six pair ski racks, I will sell mine. I had them as a spare for my past SUV for alongside the small box. The Subie is too small for both... plus the new box has plenty of room.

ssminton

occking... Depending on where you live, now is not the time to be testing your gas mileage. Winter gas additives tend to decrease mileage at least a point if not more. Before I put the roof box on in November, I was getting 24-26 highway. It is my around town number 17-18 that seems low. Now with the box, I max at 23 highway though the low end is still the same.

 

To note... gas mileage decreases exponentially over 70mph.

rsorganize

ssm:

 

No, haven't 'solved' the vibration problem. Don't think it is build up in the treads, though. Many of our roads remain snow covered, but there haven't been any vibrations recently.

 

Problem seems to emerge only after 'plowing' through significant accumulations of snow.

 

I plan on trying the waxing that was recommended, but, first, want to talk to the Subaru and/or tire dealer.

 

Glad you are pleased with the VDC. I'm past 18,000 amd mine has been great. The driving experience remains exceptional and, like you, winter driving/handling has been terrific.

 

Where in VT? I'm near the VT border in WMass.

 

Peace.

kens

I think you're mixing up the base Legacy with the Legacy GT. The base Legacy is definetly playing in the same arena as the Accord and Camry. I don't think most people who are looking at the base model are going to put as much weight on sport as those who shop for the Legacy GT.

 

People who are shopping for G35s, BMWs, Acuras or to upgrade their WRX are probably going to look at the Legacy GT, not the base Legacy.

 

It was the Legacy GT at the C&D event, not the base model.

 

Lastly, comparing a WRX and Legacy GT (not base Legacy) handling isn't really an apples-to-apples suspension comparison since you're dealing with two cars of different physical dimensions (ie. wheelbase).

 

Ken

lrossnm

I am having the same wiper problem with my '05 2.51. I checked the blade but do not think that that is the problem. If I find out what the problem is I'll post the answer.

ateixeira

Craig: so true, my wife will take her coat off and then she wants a warm interior. But the rest of us bake because we still have our coats on! ;-)

 

I need dual zone! Maybe tri-zone!

 

IMO the base Legacy is just fine for 80% of the buyers, and the 20% of us that want it sporty would opt for a GT anyway.

 

2004 was a record sales year for the Legacy, best ever for Subaru also. They know exactly what they are doing, and they nailed what consumers want in each model. That's how they got record sales!

 

-juice

occking

Live outside Providence, RI. I am aware that the cold weather certainly can affect the gas mileage & not overly concerned about what I am presently getting. On a recent trip up into New Brunswick two weeks ago did average both times exactly 25 mpg. That is not based on what the computer said by actualy consumption, miles divided by gallons. I always fill up the vehicle myself so I know when it is full it is full. Both times, however, the trip computer was inaccurate, showing approx 1.5 to 2 mpg higher than actual. I had same problem in previous car, 2005 Malibu MAXX. Will get another workout in 8 days when I head this time to Montreal. Still wondering if I should have spent a little more & gotten the turbo or the six. I suppose I will never know.

Since I have put on a few thousand miles, the pickup does seem a little better. I do not have a lead foot, however and on highway driving rarely go over 70 so I am hoping with warmer weather on long trips to average close to the 28.

Still trying to get used to low armrest on center console. Not ready to spend $150 or so to buy the extended version. Found I can get somewhat comfortable resting right arm on the armrest at the elbow and hand one on the emergency brake handle.

orangelebaron

I refuse to spend $130 or more for an "extended armrest"...something that SHOULD be standard, especially when this "extended armrest" doesn't even add to the storage space in the dinky console. For $130, I'll get a piece of packing foam or something and stick it on top!

 

Before it got really cold here in NY, I was averaging 20.7 mpg, suburban mixed driving (Nassau County may have well be considered city driving these days).

The last 500 miles, I'm only averaging 18.3 mpg...

Oh well... I bought the LTD. base engine auto to save gas and premium fuel costs and I'm not getting any better gas mileage, but I sure am getting a somewhat underpowered vehicle!

beanboy

Perhaps the regular 2.5L is jealous of the its turbo brethren and is trying to match it fuel economy wise?

 

-B

c_hunter

Craig: so true, my wife will take her coat off and then she wants a warm interior. But the rest of us bake because we still have our coats on! ;-)

 

That is how it works for us too. Inevitably, I will end up in the car with a jacket on while my wife doesn't have one. And then the temperature wars begin. Best situation would be for me to be in a t-shirt and shorts and her in a down winter jacket/pants. Then, maybe the climate control system would have a chance to please both of us!

 

Craig

c_hunter

Speed definitely impacts the mpg on my OB XT. At 65mph, I can get a solid 26-28mpg (according to the trip computer). At 80mph, I am getting 20-21mpg. I am betting the turbo is boosting at 80mph....

 

As it is now with the XT, I can barely make the 320 mile round trip to go skiing on one tank of gas (running on fumes as I pull into the garage at home basically). But I do a solid 80mph both ways. Next trip I will knock the speed down to 70mph and see how the gas mileage improves. I bet it will help a lot (I'll just have to leave the house earlier to get my prime ski-in/ski-out spot in the parking lot on the hill).

 

The XT models really need another 2-3 gallons capacity in the tank. That would make life easier. I don't mind lower MPG or higher fuel costs (as Sly mentioned, it's a cheap "tax" for the added power/fun) but filling up the gas tank several times a week is a pain.

 

I am starting to visualize my next car -- Outback or Forester with 400+ mile highway range and good power. That probably means an improved base engine (200HP would be nice and Honda can do it so why not Subaru) and a slightly larger gas tank. Add aux-in on the radio, crystal gray paint, and a few other upgrades, and I will get in line.

 

Craig

tsy

Craig, how about a Tribeca? ;-) I bet it wouldn't look as bad in black. . .

 

For my next car, I'd like an AWD Hybrid wagon that gets 60mpg, does 0-60 in 4 sec, has an interior like a Lexus and built like a MB, handles like a BMW. Oh yeah, for under $40K. ;-)

 

Barring that maybe I'll get an OB so I can get to trailheads more easily than with my GT ltd. ;-)

 

tom

c_hunter

I definitely like the Tribeca, but it would probably be overkill for our family of two. Also, it seems to offer a little less utility than my Outback for home projects and sports due to the roof rack situation; less versatile rack and higher roofline = headaches. Having lockable Yakima crossbars on factory side rails has been a great feature on all three Outbacks I have owned.

 

Having owned Outbacks and Foresters (at one point we had both!), I can't ever see not having one of those vehicles in the family -- they are perfect for our situation. Now, watch me do a total 180 someday when my wife decides it's time for kids...

 

Craig

crashton6

Hey Juice,

 

Hate to burst your bubble on the dual zone being the fix for you family heating disputes. My wife has dual zone on her Audry A4 & while it does come out at two different temps it all just mixes up in the interior. Dual zone isn't really the answer. The answer is join her, take off your coat.;-)

 

Chuck

c_hunter

I think it must be partly psychological. In fact when we are in her car, my wife laughs whenever I fiddle with the passenger side temp control, as if she knows a secret. In reality, it's probably just making me *think* my side is cooler :-).

 

Craig