Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

timo1745

kkajino-

I can tell you any A/C system requires pressurization in order to:

A. cool your car
B. keep the oil circulating throughout the system and all its components, and
C. keep moisture and other contaminations/particulates from entering the A/C system

(Based upon the info you've provided, both B and C could be applicable). So, losing enough pressure can screw up your A/C system in a variety of ways, including premature wear. In fact, even not using your A/C for extended periods can contribute to overall wear and tear because the parts aren't being regularly lubricated. I lost my compressor and receiver/drier in my '85 Prelude back in high school because it sat for a month during summertime with a leaky line.

Hope that helps a little.

Tim G.
'05 OBXTL-5MT

sduford

Let's just all agree here and now... the Subaru Climate control system sucks!

I'll second that! The biggest disapointment in my otherwise excellent OBXT.

And Subaru doesn't seem to care. In fact, they insist that they get no complaints about the ACC. Buit judging by all the forums I hang out at, about 50% of owners with ACC are upset about their system.

sweet_subie

I have 05 OB XT Ltd. I have ZERO A/C problems. I love the ACC, it is very intuitive.

One wierd fact is this: At times, when ACC is off - it will blow some air - click on the flow which has 2 options (one is circulating the inside air) & the other is bringing outside air in. once you click this, the problem solved. This is wiered but subaru had this problem even in previous gen OBs, so this is a carryover issue. SInce i come from prev gen, i know the solution.

those who are new Subaru are freaked out about this i guess.

hedden

I test drove a 2005 Outback 2.5i last weekend and wondered the same thing about the AC. It seemed weak. This is in Charleston, SC where 90+ and high humidity is common in the summer. Disappointing for a $25k+ car, to say the least. Loved it otherwise, though.

sweet_subie

i don;t think it is problem at all. i lived in Houston TX with my OB.
i suggest you don't drop the car because of this.

kat95

I have an 05 legacy i limited, I think the manual setting does a better job at cooling
versus the auto. :shades:

dougb10

I will strongly agree that using the manual setting works just fine. In both our cars...(an '05 Outback Limited and an '03 Camry XLE), we use the manual setting instead of automatic.
We live near Toronto, and are in the middle of a lengthy heat wave with very high humidity. Both cars get cooled down quickly with minimal fuss.
Doug

hypov

Don't use the blower at bi-level or floor duct setting.
The air flow for the floor duct passes through the heater coil hence warmer air which mixes and negates the cool air in the cabin from the dash ducts.

-Dave

ejj

My 1987 Audi had a better ACC system. And that car had major electrical issues--the AC Delco years of Audi. (Whoops.) Great driving cars, rough ownership experiences...

ssminton

My comments did not relate to the quality of the AC or Heating capability but rather to the control system itself. I have found that the car cools quite nicely, even in these recent weeks of above normal temps and humidities. The car also warms nicely in the winter even in below zero ambient temps. My complaint is purely this... the "Automatic Climate Control" system is far from "automatic". It requires constant fidgeting to maintain long term stable cabin comfort. This is most noticeable on longer trips. The "dual" control mode exacerbates this problem by having to make two corrections instead of one. Most dual systems have the ability for single source control, unless duel is selected... much easier.

Again, the system works great for providing heating and cooling of the cabin. It just never seems to stay comfortable for extending drive times. We have also discussed the winter problem where 66F is not a cold enough setting for Subie winter driving zones.

Anyway... as I said in the last post... I love my Outback and would never consider giving it up because of this truly minor annoyance. It just seems strange when I reach for the ACC controls more frequently than the XM?

c_hunter

Excellent way to sum it up!

Craig

rob_m

^ ^ ^ ^ ^
what he said. Rob M.

lymiq

I'm looking to buy an OB 2.5i 5-speed manual, Consumer Report tested the auto transmision version and said it had slow acceleration, I think 11.9sec 0-60mph. How is it compared to the manual in the base model? I'm buying it for my wife, she probably won't miss it but I probably going to drive it every now and then.

rsholland

You may want to consider the '06 Outback 2.5i, as it has more horsepower. I've the driven the '06 Forester which has a similar power upgrade, and the new Forester definitely feels quicker than my '01 Forester. I would assume the same to be true with the '06 Outback.

The new '06 Outbacks are now just arriving at dealers. I've seen several already.

Bob

ateixeira

They tend to granny-shift so their times are about the slowest in the industry. It feels quicker than that to me.

The current issue tests SUVs and they're all over 10 seconds except for the V6 XTerra.

-juice

c_hunter

While the 2.5i automatic version feels underpowered, the manual version feels more than adequate to me. I never had any complaints when I had one 5 years ago, and it was a great ride. When forced to buy automatic later on (for wife compatibility) I ended up going for the H6 engine and now the turbo-4 just because they are a better match for the auto transmission. But definitely, in 2.5i trim, the 5-spd manual trans is the best option in my opinion, and it will be a lot more fun to drive.

The Forester, on the other hand, is fun and sprightly with either transmission.

Craig

lymiq

my wife have no problem w/ manual trans ... just that I was a bit worried when reports complained of slow acceleration and most of the tests were done on
auto trans ... I haven't found any on the manual. Glad I came here and asked the experts. Has anyone found data on how fast the manual from 0-60? Thanks.

rsholland

Probably about a second quicker 0 – 60. I'm not sure if I've seen any tests on this vehicle (2.5i manual).

Bob

kens

Guess what I'm driving today -- a Champagne Gold OBXT! I dropped off my LGT Wagon for some service and my dealership had a 05 OBXT waiting for me as a loaner.

I've test driven an OBXT before, but that was over a year ago before I took ownership of my 05 LGT wagon. After a year of driving my LGT wagon, there were some things that I noticed -- nothing new or groundbreaking -- but clearly different from my daily experience.

Sitting in the OBXT, immediately I noticed the added ground clearance. It was strange to be just a little higher with all else being similar. The slight difference in perspective does make a difference in feeling a little more isolated from the traffic around you. Not quite as big of a difference as when driving an SUV, but just enough to relax me a bit. Made me miss my Forester a bit!

Driving through city streets, I also quickly noticed the higher profile tires and suspension do a much better job at smoothing out rough roads. The road leading to the dealership is covered with cracks, poorly applied patches and potholes. They clearly bothered me less on the drive out.

Steering -- subtle, but I did notice the difference in the steering ratios. The OBXT required a bit more turning of the wheel to make the same turns.

Power delivery -- not surprisingly the same. However, it's duty as a loaner had not allowed the 5EAT to optimize it's shift points. The 5EAT took more time to downshift so I found myself using manual mode more often. Something to keep in mind when test driving any 5EAT Subie.

I noticed the biggest contrast when driving highway 17 back to work. For those of you who don't know the area, highway 17 twists and turns it's way over the Santa Cruz mountains with some 45mph rated turns.

Given it's ground clearance and longer travel suspension, the OBXT naturally rolled through the turns more than my LGT. I found that I had to slow down more through some turns, but a part of that had to do with my not knowing the limits of this vehicle. Overall, I think the ride was much improved over it's predecessor and very commendable for a vehicle of a higher CG and longer suspension travel.

What surprised me the most was how much heavier the OBXT felt when changing direction. Weight-wise the OBXT and LGT wagon are very close, however the suspension differences make the OBXT feel less willing to rotate. I found myself noticing this even while turning street corners. I thought that this perception of weight could actually work in favor of an OBXT buyer who is looking for a more "rugged" application. At the same time, I also was impressed at how my LGT wagon, which weighs as much as an OBXT, could feel so much more responsive.

Again, nothing revolutionary here, but it's not every day that a LGT wagon owner gets to drive an OBXT for an extended time.

Ken

babaoriley

Thanks for the comparo Ken. I'm trying to decide between an OBXT and LGT myself. I currently own a 2000 OBW and am thinking about the sportiness/difference of the Legacy. I push my OB pretty hard. I love the new engine/5EAT combo but can't decide if the Legacy will be too rough on bad pavement. I live in Richmond and the roads are horrible. I also work in the city and drive to work a few times a month where the roads are pretty bad also plus there's always some construction to pass through.

Do you think over time this would loosen things up in the car too much? I'm pretty OCD about squeaks/rattles etc.

Thanks,
Brett

c_hunter

Brett, are you in Richmond VA? That's just up the road from me.

I have an 05 OB XT (gold/black twin of what Ken got for a loaner), and I debated between that and the Legacy GT wagon almost all the way down to when I signed the papers. I was set on the Leg GT, but a couple things were nagging at me -- comfort on lousy roads (I have a 70 mile round trip commute to work over lousy concrete on I-64), ability to drive on rutted dirt roads where I kayak, and ability to handle deep snow (almost everytime I drive out to Snowshoe WV to ski, I hit a major snow dump). For all of those reasons, I am really glad I got the OB XT and I have realized that many times "in action".

As I was shopping last summer, I realized that the 05 XT handled so much better than my 02 Outback that the difference between the Leg GT and the OB XT was very small compared to either car compared to my 02 Outback. The XT handles really well, and corners a lot flatter and more quickly than my 02 ever did (I have to agree with Ken, it's pretty good for 8.7" of ground clearance and a lot of suspension travel). For that reason, the OB XT seemed like a great all around compromise -- a dose of what makes the Leg GT so great, same great engine/trans, and all the utility and capability I was used to in the Outback.

Craig

kens

Brett,

As Craig wrote and I noted earlier, the OBXT will be significantly more sporty compared to your 2000 OB despite the increased GC. However, the Legacy GT, IMO, is quite a bit more responsive on roads to the point that it makes you realize that despite sharing many components, is really targeted towards a different use application.

The GT is more firmly sprung than the OBXT but by no means is it a kidney-bashing sport car firm. In fact, I think the GT has quite a bit of a forgiving stock suspension set up for the amount of performance it can provide. It's been designed with US roads in mind and is in not a track setup.

Interestingly I came from a 98 Forester S that I also drove it close to it's limits on occasion (Craig used to own a WRX). Even with a stiffer rear sway bar and upgraded tires, the Forester S can not come close to the cornering I can achieve with the LGT.

I think you should try and see if your local dealer will let you take both models for an extended test drive. Check on the Subaru website -- some dealers are now participating in a 24 hour extended test drive program.

Some food for thought -- an equivalently equipped LGT wagon is about $1000 less than an OBXT. You could use that money to buy a new set of rims and tires with a slightly higher sidewall to provide a softer ride (ie. 205/55R16 vs. 205/45R17 stock). In fact, you probably could pick up an inexpensive base 2005 Legacy set of 16" wheels on eBay. That way you could have the best of both worlds if ground clearance wasn't a top priority.

Ken

xcskiguy

GTs have larger brake rotors, so that's a negative on a swap to 16 inchers. Check Tire Rack if you're in doubt. That said, $1000 still buys some nice winter treads. The stock Legacy (GT) tire is 215/45/17 also. My vote would still be for the Legacy.

-Barry

robr2

GTs have larger brake rotors, so that's a negative on a swap to 16 inchers. Check Tire Rack if you're in doubt.

Tirerack confirmed to me last year that 16" will not fit the GT.

ateixeira

Nice comparo.

I think for most people the OB is well suited, because roads are not perfect and how often do we really get to drive at 10/10ths?

The GT is the insider's choice.

-juice

alpha01

Actually, the slowest numbers seem to be under edmunds.com clock.

CR tests without advanced techniques, and their numbers are remarkably similar to Car and Driver's Street Start, which is the performance that most people will be able to extract in everyday driving- simply stomping on the gas and holding it to a given speed.

If you look at those two sources closely, as well as the passing information (more important, I feel) one can assemble a clear picture of a vehicles acceleration.

IMO, I'm not all that surprised by CR's time of 11.9 to 60 for the heaviest and least powerful of any Legacy/OB model.

~alpha

kens

Oops. I screwed up my facts on tire sizes. Thanks for catching that.

Ken

bat1161

Going through the Subaru website to find a dealer participating in the 24hr test drive, I came across a dealer (Lester Glenn) advertising employee pricing. Does anyone have any idea what this equals? Is that, basically, invoice? Just curious for now. All these offers do make it hard to stay perched on the fence.

Mark

babaoriley

Thanks Craig and Ken for additional feedback. I'm leaning towards the OBXT for reasons Craig mentioned. I do like the Legacy's cheaper price and sleeker lines along with the better handling.

Craig, I live in Richmond, CA, close phonetically, not geographically. My OB only sees snow during ski trips but I really appreciate it then.

I've test driven both and didn't see too much difference except in the ride height Ken mentioned, but I think the 24 hour test drive will provide a more detailed analysis. There are enough dealers in the area I can probably swing 2 extended drives.

Thanks again for everyone's input,
Brett

c_hunter

The good news is that both vehicles are awesome. Definitely a tough choice, but you can't go wrong overall! I think it's pretty cool that Subaru offers two types of wagons we can choose from -- you don't normally find that in every manufacturer's lineup.

Craig

kens

Brett,

I see that you live in the Bay Area as well! I used to live in El Cerrito so I know how some of those East Bay roads can be.

I also recall seeing a few dealers in our area participating in the 24 hour test drive. My favorite dealer, Santa Cruz Subaru is doing it. I'm not sure if Albany Subaru is participating, but I got bad vibes from their sales group when I was shopping back for my 98 Forester.

To echo Craig's point, both really are great vehicles. If I could afford it, I would have both in my fleet. Over the last two days of the OBXT loaner, I do wish I could switch between the two based on my needs. :-)

However, being the shameless Legacy GT fan I am, I'll make one last pitch to sway you over to my side. When I owned my 98 Forester S, I was enamored by the extra ground clearance and the thought of light offroading. Well, as it turned out, I drove one or two fire roads during the five years of ownership and the rest wishing that it handled more like the then Impreza 2.5 RS. The extra ground clearance was nice but not a necessity for my trips up to Tahoe. Nothing looks more sexy than an OB or Forester in the Sierras, but I was too OCD to go through roads, paved or otherwise.

To answer a question you posted several messages ago, my LGT has just one small rattle coming from the sunroof shade moving in the guides. The OBXT I'm renting now has it too and I think it can be fixed with some application of weatherstripping. Otherwise, it's been very rattle free -- far better than my 98 Forester.

Ken

dt63944

I'm on my third Forester and the ridiculous amount of attention that Subaru's automatic air conditioning gets on these boards indicates to me that if it's so important, it should have it's own topic, so the rest of us don't have to sift through such nonsense.

nmgridl

There are several affinity groups that you can join to get "employee pricing" anytime of the year. Subaru calls it their "VIP Program". The below link will take you to a list. I choose the Rainbow VISA Card, which is issued by MBNA. After 6 months of use I will be eligible for the VIP Program. That fit my time frame. Other groups may have a shorter time requirement.

http://www.cars101.com/subaru/subaru_discounts.html

c_hunter

VIP pricing is usually invoice, and that is not hard to come by just with a little haggling. Actually, dealers like Fitzmall sell Subarus at invoice or below with no haggling. So the VIP programs are nice, but not a requirement at all. I have not paid more than invoice for any Subaru, and some have been as much as $700 under invoice.

Normally, employee pricing is lower than invoice -- usually invoice minus holdback. At least that is the case for my mother in law, who gets Ford employee pricing (she works for Hertz). We used that when buying a Mazda 626 many years ago.

Craig

c_hunter

You're better off with with the Subaru/Chase credit card, which will earn you Subaru Bucks (3% on every purchase). I cashed in $1200 Subaru bucks on my last Outback purchase which augmented my downpayment nicely. They can also be used for accesories, maintenance, etc...

Craig

bat1161

Actually I have belonged to the IMBA for over a year now, so I could get the VIP price throught them. I figured, as Craig pointed out, that the employee pricing was a better than invoice price. What I was amazed at was seeing Employee pricing for Subarus.

Craig- I use the Chase Subaru card as well. The Subaru bucks have been used for some parts, and some work done so it has paid for itself. Still have some, which hopefully I will use on a new Subaru in the not to distant future.

Mark

alpha01

with your employers as well, for those who work with large corporations- many have affiliations with Subaru of America. This was the case when I worked for Johnson & Johnson- and I wouldnt have known about it if I had asked if any other makes besides GM and Chrysler were available.

Mind you, JnJ didnt offer SUBARU Employee pricing, but it is the VIP Program, and there was no time limitation (ie... 6 months participation with IMBA, for example).

Joe

occking

Any comments from Outback owners on replacement tires? I have heard such horrible things about the Potenza 92's. Have 19k on them now & they seem to be wearing ok. Stopped into a Goodyear dealer to have them rotated & ended up spending $525 for 5 Goodyear Triple Treads. They had them on sale for $92 each, when I added the protection plan, mounting, balancing, etc., came out to that figure. After I got home went on Tire Rack web site & read the many reviews for the 92's as well as the Triple Tread. Almost every review about the 92's was a negative one, but the complete opposite for the Triple Treads.

I prepaid everything & have them mounted around Dec 1, at which time I will have approx 30k on the vehicle. I figure by then they may be worthless.

Tire Rack had them for $102 each, but when you add $40 for shipping, $80 for mounting & balancing (they list several dealers that would perform the service) extended warranty, etc., I come out much higher than the %25 (which included RI sales tax 7%)

So, any comments from owners out there about their experiences with the 92's or the Triple Treads would be greatly appreciated.

reliable2

This is a very good question and I would also like to hear discusson about the #1 CR rated Falken Tires from you experts out there as I have a 2001 Outback with 80,000 miles on it and will be looking for a set of reasonably priced all season tires that give a good ride, quiet and good in dry, wet and snowy weather - how much better would the Falkens be than my Potenzas ? Please note - I am not interested in a set of 3 season tires and snow tires

c_hunter

Since there are various speed rating for the TripleTread, make sure you got the right ones -- they should be H rated.

Also, note that most RE-92 negative comments pertain to the previous generation of RE-92 with a lower wear rating (~240). I had those on a couple Hondas and my WRX, and they were not great in rain or snow. However, Outbacks have always used a *different* version of RE-92 -- my 02 had RE-92 tires with a wear rating of 320, and the tires were going strong at 60K miles -- no complaints at all. The 05 models actually have the RE-92A -- an alltogether new tire (not sure what the wear rating is on your 2.5i, might be worth checking). So the moral of the story -- most of the negative RE-92 comments don't apply to the Outback tire, and for 05, it's a totally new tire and the jury is still out.

Now, let me put on my economist hat and scold you for giving your money to the tire dealer 4-5 months before getting the tires!! Got any more money I can take off your hands for a few months?
;-)

Craig

krzyss

There are so many flavours of RE92s that it is mind boggiling(?).
Legacy GT RE92s have UTOQ 160 (215/45R17).

I bet Bridgestone is using RE92 as a general "premium/high performance all season" tire label that they tweak to any manufacturer requirements.

Krzys

lilbluewgn02

Both our Subies had RE92s, hers H-rated on her 2001 Legacy GT and mine V-rated on my 2002 WRX wagon. After around 25K miles, one of hers had a interior belt come loose, causing loud thumping. Mine just didn't wear well. After much research on various websites, including Tire Rack, we replaced them with Bridgestone Turanza LSs. Excellent reviews everywhere, 400 rating. In Florida's rains, they've handled really well and neither one of us have any complaints, plus we each got $100 rebates from Bridstone at the time.
Serge

dougb10

On our '05 Outback Limited, we dumped the Potenza's after 1,500 km's.

Switched to Bridgestone Turanza LS-H tires....much smoother ride, great in the rain and handled snow just fine. The Outback is a totally different car with the new rubber.

Doug

ateixeira

I have the same tire on my Miata and love them. The one criticism is that they don't last all that long, but to me I'll trade off longevity for extra traction any day.

-juice

bju

16" wheels are standard. Are the 17" wheels from the XT and up an option that can be negotiated at the time of purchase?

rsholland

all '06 Legacy & Outback 2.5i models.

Bob

bju

Thanks Bob. I should have been more specific. I am still debating between finding a discounted 05 and an 06. I don't think 17" wheels are standard on the 05, so if I have to pay for that upgrade to an 05 model, that could wipe out any incentives I may achieve by buying the 05 model.

c_hunter

I am guessing this would be hard to negotiate into a purchase unless you were willing to pay for the upgrade in full (and perhaps not get a refund for the 16" setup). I would figure on about $200-250 per wheel (normal Subaru wheel prices at wholesale) and another $100-140 per tire. That will add up quick.

You can go aftermarket for less (decent wheels start at around $120) but choose wisely. Many low-cost aftermarket wheels are heavy and/or not as strong as OEM wheels.

If you can get an 06 at invoice (check www.fitzmall.com) then go for that -- it will likely be the cheapest overall way to get an Outback with 17" wheels (within 1-2 months of the 05 models hitting the street, I was able to get my OB XT at invoice at fitzmall). I guess you will miss possible additional incentives on the 05 that would drop the price below invoice, but it would probably be a wash when adding wheels to the 05.

Craig

bju

Thanks Craig. I'm leaning towards an 06 anyway at this point since I'm not sure if they carried over the $1,500 incentive for the 05 2.5i from July into August, and I can get Invoice pricing now on an 06 through my IMBA VIP membership. Even if they do extend the cash into August, while it'd be cheaper now, I'll more than make up for that in better resale down the road owning an 06 instead of 05.

I have aftermarket wheels on my allroad now and they've been fine, but I know there are a lot of heavy, easily bent rims on the market. Looking to keep my OB stock.

Brian

ateixeira

Get the '06. Some insurance companies have issues with aftermarket wheels anyway, you may at least pay extra to insure them.

Basically you won't end up saving any money with an '05.

-juice