Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

willoc

Have any car mags etc done a back to back comparison of these models? I'm really on the fence. My local dealer has a couple GT 5-speed wagons, and I'd have to look further out to get an OB XT 5-speed...is there a major difference in handling, braking, etc? I know the GT has bigger brakes and stiffer tires/suspension but I wonder how much different it really is. Would I miss the ground clearance on the OB? I do take it skiing and on dirt roads occasionally. thanks for any input.

c_hunter

There is a huge difference in handling -- the GT handles like a sports sedan, while the Outback handles like an Outback! The handling is quite good in the 05+ Outback compared to previous generations, but it's not a GT by any means. The cars have two very different missions.

I was in a similar situation last summer, and chose the OB XT. The first time I hit deep snow in the ski area parking lot, I was really happy with my decision.....

Craig

ateixeira

For the steering wheel, try:

http://www.wheelskins.com/

I have a black one on my Forester. Believe it or not I bought it in 1991 and put it on my Escort GT, where it stayed for 7 years. It's been on my Forester for 8 years and it still looks good. 15 years and almost 200k miles of abuse!

You can also find a leather shift knob, either aftermarket or the OE Subaru one, I'd get the latter. I have that on my Forester also. Even got one for my wife's '02 Legacy L.

Finally, the brake lever should be available just like the shift knob is, the trick is to find the part number. Or buy a used one if some Ltd owner goes with wood or carbon fiber.

AVLS - all but the Baja's normally aspirated 2.5l get this, I believe.

Phil: congrats on the GT!

-juice

kens

No back to back comparison of these two models that I know of. It really wouldn't make sense for a car magazine to do a comparo since it would really only address a very small segment. But your question is a common one among Subie enthusiasts!

The suspension setup makes a big difference in how these two vehicles behave. I recently had a chance to drive an OBXT Ltd while my LGT wagon was being serviced and was able to get that back-to-back experience. Each has it's strengths that come with it's tradeoffs. The LGT eagerly changes direction and gives very good feedback but you'll cringe on rutted roads. The OBXT soaks up bumps and tackles light offroading, but you'll have less confidence through turns.

How often do you drive through deep snow, go off-roading or drive on poor roads? How often do you like to go on spirited drives through twisty roads? I used to own a Forester and realized that I grossly overestimated how much I needed the extra ground clearance and light off-roadability. It's a nice thought to have that go-anywhere image, but in reality I drove on normal roads that didn't need that extra suspension travel 99% of the time. And ironically, it was during that 99% that I wished it handled better. Just some food for thought.

Ken

gmanmd

I have a couple of questions on the 2006 GT. Does anyone know if they recalibrated the auto tranny as more than a few reviewers mentioned in the 2005 it sapped a lot of the engine's power. Or have people felt that it mated well to the engine to begin with? Also, has Subaru added retained power to the 2006s?

As an aside on the bent valve topic a few posts back...I owned a 2000 Forester which also had a bent valve which stopped me dead in my tracks on the highway. That Forester was in the shop multiple times for the 14 months I had it and it was replaced with a 2001 Forester as I invoked the Lemon Law in NJ. Subaru was exemplary in the way they handled the issue and I loved the 2001 Forester (which BTW had a nicer interior/exterior than the 2000) and here I am again looking at another Subaru, the Legacy GT.

One other comment, why did Subaru think to add navi only to the auto GT limited and not the manual? What's up with that?

subout

Hi,
I own a 2005 VDC Outback wagon. Since the 2006 is the same body style. Is it possible to add a factory GPS Navagation system to my 2005. When I contact
800 Subaru or various dealerships nobody knows the answer.
Thanks.

kens

I haven't heard of any changes to the 5EAT map. Any automatic transmission will create drivetrain losses and the 5EAT is no exception. Also because of the torque converter, an automatic will tend to increase turbo lag. However, the 2.5 turbo in the LGT is fairly stout so it is definetly not the same as, say the previous generation WRX+4EAT.

While die hard enthusiasts will disagree, I believe the 5EAT is a fine match for the LGT. It upshifts smoothly and quickly and downshifts are instantaneous. Over time, the 5EAT performance improves as it learns your driving behavior. I believe that the 5EAT models tested by the car magazines did not have that benefit and therefore showed less than optimal performance.

Over at LGT.com, 5EAT owners have shown 0-60 times at the dragstrip that are within one second of a 5MT. And the numbers are more consistent to boot.

Subaru's choices for the 2006 model line up has a lot of people scratching their heads with respect to transmission, navi and color.

Ken

kens

While nothing is impossible, I think it would be a very, very expensive retrofit that your dealer probably would not be willing to undergo.

I'd wait a little while since there are a few enthusiasts out there that just may try the retrofit themselves.

Other than that, the only options would be to take the depreciation hit on your 2005 and trade in for a 2006, or go with an aftermarket unit. I think juice was very happy with his Garmin for his 1998 Forester.

Ken

samiam_68

Does anyone know where I can get these made of high quality materials? Meaning - they won't fade or crack or yellow after a year or two.

Thanx!

ateixeira

Actually I didn't get it yet, though I have sampled a couple of units.

The factory NAV is integrated so I doubt you could add that cost effectively.

Check out the Garmin StreetPilot c series, under a grand with voice instructions and 3 models to choose from.

-juice

dee0000

Ken,
I just purchased an 2005 Outback 2.5i Limited and am having a similar problem. I want to integrate my iPod, but am not happy with any of the FM Modulators or Transmitters out there. I want a hard-wired solution and was considering CleanSweep. However, I'm generally satisfied with the factory radio and speakers and don't want to spend that kind of money replacing it. Also, I want to keep the look and style matching all the rest of the controls on the center console. If CleanSweep is overkill, what other alternatives are there for the 2005 Outback? Unfortunately, I just learned today that the '06 models will now have an AUX-in on the back of all the radios. I think I must have contacted every car audio company and none of them have solutions for Subarus.
Major help needed!
-Dee

cptplt

mats.com, they have these plate holders with covers I have had for 3-4 years on 3 vehicles and holding up great

kens

Dee,

Where did you hear that the 2006s now have an AUX-in in the back of the unit? That is good news.

The only other hardwire option other than a FM modulator is to hack into the headunit and create your own AUX-in. Some very clever people over at LGT.com are working on a solution. But this solution involves quite a bit more involvement than an FM modulator.

If the 2006 models do have an AUX-in, then maybe the cleanest and simplest solution is to buy just the headunit from a dealer and swap out the old one.

Ken

cubby

Planning on moving to Costa Rica....roads are not improved for the most part, at least where I'm going. Need something reliable, dependable, good on gas, and can take a licking...within reason. MUST be 4wd. Friends have recommended the Subaru Outback, but I know absolutely nothing about them except promo stuff

Can I get some pros and cons on the Outback? I have about a year to go, but wanted to start doing my homework, just in case I run across something between now than then. I currently have a 4wd Jeep Grand Cherokee with 140,000 US road miles - which may turn out to be my ride.....

thanks,

Cubby

krzyss

I would check what kind of dealers/service is available. I guess car from US would be cheaper (equally equipped) but maintenance would be a challenge if parts are not available locally.

Krzys

ateixeira

Those are the two I would consider for the type of abuse you're likely to subject it too.

See if you can get parts there, just in case.

-juice

kyfdx

Old Toyota Landcruiser...

ateixeira

That's what my dad had in his fleet while in Belize. Toyota parts are easier to get in that region, but find out for sure.

You also see a lot of Mitsubishi Montero/Pajero trucks, I wonder if parts availability is better on those as well.

He actually rolled one of them over. :surprise:

-juice

samiam_68

Thanks - I'll check them out!

erics6

I don't ever remember seeing a Subaru in Costa Rica when I was visiting. Lot's of Toyota's and Nissan's. Think I'd look at a Nissan or Toyota pickup. The newer 4 door versions would work if you need more people space.

reliable2

What do you guys think about Subaru extended service plans for a 2005 Outback - are they a wise purchase and are the bumper to bumper "gold " plans or no deductible plans the way to go ? I am thinking about the 5 year/100k as we drive about 20k each year at prices ranging from about $1000 for basic mechanical coverage at $100 deductible to $1500 for bumper to bumper at zero deductible - do any of you have these plans and good or bad experiences ?

hypov

Don't forget to check your State's Law too.
Actually, I believe it is illegal in all States.

If your plates aren't raised numbers/letters, put a film of Rockblocker clear-bra to it.

-Dave

ateixeira

Depends - if you also want the roadside assistance that comes with it, it becomes a better value. We have that for 7 yeras, AAA alone would have cost us $497. To us it was worth it.

-juice

ssminton

You may want to consider an aftermarket product. I use the Garmin Quest, which retails around $500. The new StreetPilot products are also very nice. I like having a portable system, for it allows me to take it from car to car.

rsholland

I was cross-comparing the '05 Outback brochure with the '06 Outback brochure and noticed that for '06 there are only two-2-tone colors offered (Silver/Gray & Moss Green/Willow Green). Last year there were five 2-tone combinations offered. So it looks like Subaru is slowly but surely moving towards a monochromatic look for the Outback line. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this is the last year for 2-tone models.

Bob

squirtdad

I saw a post an another forum that suggested that Subaru is dropping manual transmissions in some cases....specifically the legacy GT wagon. Is there any truth to this or is it totally bogus??

ateixeira

Manual is gone for '06, it's true. They made few of these, supposedly. Seems like people here bought nearly all of them if that's the case.

Bob - I like the Forester LL Bean model but I wish that came in monotone. Maybe next year?

-juice

hektorviktor

Hello, I recently bought a 2005 outback automatic. Love it. I've been driving it easy since I've had it but now I need to take a 400+ road trip. I really want to take the outback but I have concerns about the break in time, I have about 600 miles on it now. Any tips, should I not drive it? I know that cruise control is out of the question is there anything else I should be thinking of? Any feedback would be great. Thanks, hektorviktor

surfaceplate1

Bought a outback VDC last fall . Had 300 mi. on it and took it down south .About2000mi.round trip.Tryed to vary the speed and didnt use cruise.Now have over 10,000 mi and it runs fine.I think the engines today just dont need as much break in. Also kept the tack. under 3500 RPM,s.By the way ,got 25.6mi to a gallon too.

ssminton

First let me apologize, for I know that this topic has been discussed before. As I tried to search through the board, it just became too tedious so here it goes...

I am looking to replace the OEM tires on my 2005 Outback VDC. I have had tire balance issues through the last 30K miles of driving. I believe these problems have actually damaged the tires, making the problem even worse. At this point, I am tired of constant re-balancing and poor ride and am ready to start over.

I have previously been a SUV driver and always went with Michelin's for replacement. I believe previous comments on this board recommend other brands. As a SUV driver, I am also unfamiliar with "performance" tires.

What does the group recommend for a good all-season comfortable and reliable tire. Snow performance and ride are probably my most important features. Price is not as critical.

Thank you!

dougb10

We have a 2005 Outback Limited....were very unhappy with the rough ride on the OEM Potenza's.
We replaced them with Bridgestone Turanza LSH tires and have been amazed at the difference. Great ride and excellent handling in rain...no problems in snow so far.
We asked the experts on this forum and at Tirerack....I also plan to replace the Michelin's on our '03 Camry with the Turanza's..that's how much I like them.

Good luck.....Doug

c_hunter

Check Tirerack -- there are some Bridgestone Turanzas in our size that will fit your needs well. They are rated very highly for ride quality and are decent in the snow (certainly better than the stock RE-92 in both respects). The only other good tires that fit drift into the sport category, where you will trade off some comfort. I will most likely get the Turanzas when my RE-92s wear out. I'm at about 20K miles and they are not aging well (noisy with some cupping). In contrast, the old RE-92 on my 02 Outback was still going strong when I traded the car near 50K!

Craig

c_hunter

If you can make an effort to vary your speed, then you should be OK. I have a highway commute, so a "proper" break-in would mean me not driving the cars to work when they are new! I do drive them, but try to vary speed, change my routes a bit, etc... Anything that avoids continuous driving with the engine at the same RPM will be OK. You could just alter your speed +/- 10mph every so often. I believe Ken came up with the good idea of using sportshift to drop a gear every so often to also vary engine RPM.

Craig

mwhitt

I am in the process of buying and want Subaru owners opinions. AWD is a must and I am pretty much down to these. They are very different, but in the end reliability has to be the decider. I need a car that can stand up to 40K a year and at least 200K without making me crazy beyond the normal wear and tear stuff.

I get the sense Subaru does this over and over again, while Audi a little suspect, but over the long run I want to know a little about comparable fit and finish, rattles, tight driving/handling, comfort of the ride. Test drives in cars off the lot don't say a lot about how I am going to feel 50K in.

Also, your opinions on the dealers, techs, service in general are welcome.

Thanks a lot for the advice.

ateixeira

Do yourself a favor, go to CarMax or some other used car lot, and check out a used Audi with more than 150k miles, if you can find one.

You will find an abundance of Subarus.

-juice

kat95

I have a 2005 Legacy i automatic with manual mode(sportshift). I only use it when going down a steep hill or incline. Salesman said I could use it like a 5 speed when getting on the highway to accelerate fast???? I guess I'm old school and just floor it. I have read the owners manual to see how it works, but still prefer to use Drive. Any input would be appreciated.

Thank you

ateixeira

You don't have to use it, don't feel obligated.

You can if you want to, though. If you know a steep hill is approaching you can use a lower gear for easier climbing.

The tranny would catch up to you, but humans can think ahead.

-juice

oclvframe

I put Toyo Proxes TPT v-rated tires on my LLBean and love them. I have over 105kmi on my vehicle now and this is the 3rd set of tires I have put on. They are by far the best.

-r

ssminton

Spent some time today getting tire quotes. The Touranza's seem to be tough to get and vary widely in price ($150-$300/ea). Basically, those who can get them locally are charging excessive amounts, while those with lower pricing say the tires are not currently available?

I went to 5 tire dealers at lunch today. Basically, I had 2 tires that came up recommended most frequently, though I have not seen reviews on either.

1. Nokian WR-V... This is a scandinavian tire that is known for strong traction performance, especially in winter conditions. Does anyone have any reviews on this. Is is quiet?

2. Firestone Affinity LH30... This is apparently a new tire from Firestone. It was highly recommended over the Touranza by both the Firestone and independent dealer. I guess it is either a good tire, or Firestone is providing really good kick-backs on it this month. It is also rated for 70K miles, much higher than most tires in this class. As a previous Explorer owner with tire blowout history, I question my sanity in giving Firestone any money; though I would hope that they have improved their methods since that debacle 6 years ago.

I appreciate everyone's thoughts!

kens

Much of your engine break-in actually happens prior to taking delivery of your vehicle. At the factory, they fire up the engine and then run the vehicle on a dynometer to check if output is to spec. A good deal of break-in occurs within the first 20 miles of it's life.

By being gentle on the car and varying RPMs during the first 1000 miles, you are adding a margin of safety to make sure that everything has seated properly. By now, your tires probably have shed it's molding layer and the brake pads fully bedded.

My recommendation is to just sit back and let the RPMs vary every now and then and enjoy your roadtrip on your new car!

You may want to think about an oil & filter change at 1000 miles, which would fall in nicely at the end of your trip. It's not mandated by Subaru, but I, along with other owners, like to make sure that all the break-in residue is out of circulation.

Ken

kens

I usually only use manual mode when:

-Enjoying some spirited driving and I don't want my RPMs to drop below a certain level
-In bumper-to-bumper traffic so that I get engine braking as well as keeping the transmission in a low enough gear to quickly change lanes
-Going down a long downhill stretch and I want to control engine braking

Otherwise, I just keep it in drive and enjoy.

BTW, unless you are very experienced, acceleration is often slower with manual shifting on an automatic rather than just letting it do it's thing. ;-)

Ken

kens

Every car make will have some average level of reliability and some distribution around that. While I don't know what the relative reliability will be between the new Subarus and the redesigned A4, historically, Audi's reliability seems to have a pretty wide distribution.

In other words, you can ask a bunch of Audi owners and you'll get a mixed bag of responses with respect to reliability. Some have had great experiences while an equal number have had terrible ones relative to the average. In contrast, that distribution seems tighter with Subaru. Most everyone seems to have a similar experience.

Also, keep in mind that Audi repairs costs are quite expensive once you leave the warranty period.

Ken

krzyss

Juice has good suggestion but I suspect that 200K mark has more to do with luck and proper maintenance. 40K a year is plenty of miles in one year.
Subaru should be cheaper getting you there.

Krzys

PS Why do you compare Outback to A4 and not Legacy Wagon? 3.0NA engine vs 2.0 T and not 2.5T. Just wondering.

ateixeira

They does offer free maintenance but at your pace of mileage it'll be used up in no time.

The Subie will just have a lower cost of operation after that.

-juice

robr2

They does offer free maintenance but at your pace of mileage it'll be used up in no time.

They does??

ateixeira

They do.

How 'bout this:

juice does need a grammar checker? :P

-juice

robr2

Just funnin' with you juice.

kyfdx

The Affinity LH-30 is a tire that the Firestone dealers put up as being just as good as the Turanzas...

I don't know, but they don't get nearly as good reviews on Tirerack... Though they are about 30% cheaper...

regards,
kyfdx

cptplt

I have Turanza LS T on a Venture and LS V on a Legacy, they are great tires. better than the OEM Re92 on the Legacy and also the Michelin symmetrys I had on the venture (the OEM Firestones shredded after only 1 year but till then they were ok!).
I also have the Nokian WR on a Windstar and the older model NRW for my Legacy winter tires. They are not as good in winter as true "ice tires" like blizzaks but still pretty decent - live in Chicago burbs . I think the Turanzas are probably quieter than the Nokians but then they aren't snow traction rated either. If you need good winter traction and don't care about "performance" the Nokians are a good way to go and saves having to change tires in winter.
Costco can get the Turanza LS, IIRC I paid about 130 for the LS V.(only reason I got the V rather than H speed rating is I'm planning on using them on my WRX one day when my Legacy dies - if ever!!)

bcurrie

I was hoping someone would ask such a question.

I have recently been given a 2002 A6 3.0 sedan to drive on company business, replacing my base 01 Outback. The cars both have around 140,000 miles on them, both have had all the required maintenance and both were driven with care.. While the Audi is a performance car verses a much more utilitarian vehicle, it certainly isn't twice the car the Outback is although it was twice the price. The Audi has had some maintenance problems. The Outback has had no problems outside of normal wear and tear. Everything on the Outback still works. All accessories, all lights all latches, everything. On the Audi, the cup holder does not retract anymore, some of the dash lights are out, the climate control switches back and forth to Celsius and Farenheight on its own. Nothing serious, but for $45,000., I would rather have two Outbacks.

My 96 Outback ran perfectly when I traded it in for my 2001 and I would have traded the 2001 in for a new one if I hadn't got the company car. I may keep the 01 for ski trips to Vermont. The Audi has quatro, but it blew a water pump today and I'm not sure I want that to happen on a cold night up north.

Thanks for the opportunity to rant.

Bob C