Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

lotsabones

First of all, I would like to thank all of the members of this group that made my decision so easy - I pretty much decided to buy the car without ever even seeing one, much less driving one. Last weekend I requested price quotes from Stevens Creek and Carlsen Subaru in the Bay Area. The cars themselves were Black and White - neither would be my first choice, but MT wagons seem to be uncommon. I was a bit apprehensive about Stevens Creek, as I have seen a LOT of unhappy comments about them, but their price (over 2k under MSRP) was much better than Carlsen's, so last Tuesday I flew down there, checkbook in hand. The price quote also asked me not to talk to anyone except for Masood, their internet salesperson who sent the price quote, so when I arrived I asked for him. We located the car, went for a short spin (this car is FAST - and I am not unaccustomed to fast cars) and sat down and did the paperwork. There was no haggling on the quoted price, no trying to switch cars, or add anything I didn't want. Then, I went to talk to the Finance guy, who (as expected) tried to get me to add extended warranties, undercoating, fabric sealing, etc. No mention of Free Maintainence of any kind, by the way (I was purchasing, not leasing). I just said no, many times, and although he kept pestering me as he was doing the paperwork, his heart clearly was not in it. I would have been on my way in less than an hour, except the detail people were rather busy and the car was not done by the time I was. So I waited about 20 minutes, than got a thorough going-over of the car and driving off in my (wife's) brand-new black/taupe GT Ltd wagon. Only options were the Performance group 1 - short throw shifter + knob + STi pedals. The drive home put about 350 miles on the car, and included a fair amount of stop-and-go at first (I hit the GG bridge at about 4:30) but it cleared up finally at Healdsburg (101 North all the way). As many have mentioned, it is quite difficult to keep the engine under 4000rpm - esp starting off in first gear. The car is so quiet that it is difficult to shift "by ear", as I tend to do in my Cooper.

lotsabones

Keep in mind, this is in comparison to a Mini Cooper S, the car I have put 35,000 miles on in the last year and 3 months. The Cooper has a quite stiff ride, moderate acceleration, and corners like a go-kart. In high-speed (60-80mph) turns, the GT wagon is very stable, some body lean but not a lot, and very easy to control with adequate feedback from the wheels. On tighter turns (35-50mph, the ones with yellow caution signs that say 25-30mph) body lean is more pronounced but still not bad at all - and the engine is strong enough, even in 5th gear, so that you can change the balance from understeer to oversteer quite easily (may also have something to do with the AWD system and the viscous front-back coupling). Overall, it has an excellent balance handling and ride. It is not as extreme as the Cooper, and would have trouble keeping up with the Cooper on twisty roads (as would just about any other car in this price range), but on a straight stretch it is no contest at all.
To be honest, the car that the Subaru reminds me of most is the car I owned prior to the Cooper, which was a Lexus GS400. That car was also very quiet, had a strong (300hp) engine, and handled pretty well. However, the Subaru is quieter, handles better, and feels even quicker - not to mention being 20k+ less expensive. The interior on the Lexus was nicer, and had features that the Subaru may never have (auto down and up on all four windows was pretty nice) but they are at least headed in the right direction.
As I got further north, and the traffic thinned out, I filled up with gas in Cloverdale and reset the computer. The rest of the drive home was almost all highway driving, mostly rolling hills with a few miles here and there of 2-lane twisties, then a trip up to the airport and back to pick up my car. Filled up with gas the next day (yesterday, actually) and the computer indicated 25.8mpg - with an actual calculated figure of 24.4. Not bad at all, considering the engine is brand new. Now, its back to the Cooper for me, and stern warnings to my wife to not exceed 4000rpm (which I did at least twice on each day I drove it - my bad). At this rate, though, it won't take any time at all to get past break-in. I can't wait to really wind it out.

Phil

rellom

ditto
Come on Subaru, make it available!

c_hunter

The fender trim is also on my 02 Outback -- it's just a piece of flexible "C" channel that seals up the edge of the metal, probably to keep the paint from getting beat up. On the front fender, there is no trim but the front fender well has a large plastic liner whereas the back us just undercoated body metal.

I would put silver as my first choice except that my wife's car is silver. It's really one of the best colors for not showing dirt or scratches, and is cool in the summer. For a little variety in the driveway, I will shoot for Atlantic Blue if it's available (plus it looks gorgeous to me with the black interior).

Craig

samiam_68

It's funny, I have both a GS400 and a Forester XT. I'm thinking of selling both cars and just getting an Outback XT. But I think I'll wait until Subaru offers features that should be included or at least optional in a $30K car such as NAV, memory seats/mirrors, auto up/down windows, XM, MP3 or AUX-IN Stereo, and maybe a better 4/50 B2B 6/70 powertrain warranty.

lumbar

Isn't this a repeat of the same issue with the '04 Forester? I think the Foresters for '05 still requires purchase of the premium package, so it looks like Subaru is wedded to this.

Also, will anyone who (like lotsabones, above) gets near 25mpg or over with the turbo (Legacy or Outback) please post your experiences. I'm printing out the info and placing it on the wife's pillow. Those getting less than 20 need not apply--this is a domestic sticking point.

kens

Tom: Below is the photo of my rear wheel well. I think I also have the trim that you asked about.



Craig: Below is a photo of the subwoofer. It's TINY! It's smaller than the unit in my Forester. I'd say it's roughly the width and height of a VCR tape. It does extend further into the seat than the photo shows, however.



Hope that helps.

Ken

rsq798

I generally get 23.7 mpg, mostly highway, but I like to drive fast. Right now I'm at 24.0.

c_hunter

That is a small Sub, looks smaller than the one in my WRX (which is about 8" x 10"). Maybe I will just leave it alone!

Craig

tsy

Yup, that's the fender trip I was talking about. It's just interesting it's not on the front fender, but Craig answered that question too.

Phil- congrats on the new wagon. I'm glad you got the MT, i was starting to feel lonely. How do you like the short shifter? I'm thinking about installing it, and there isn't one at any of the dealers near me to try.

I'm getting a little over 21 mpg in mostly city driving. I drive up and down a lot of hills so my mileage has been on the low side of every car I've owned. I suspect if you live where it's more level you're mileage would be better. If you drive gently I think you can do even better.

tom

c_hunter

Anybody know the max cargo weights for the Outback and Legacy GT wagons? Or gross weights? Can't seem to find this info anywhere. I'm curious if there is a difference betweenthe two. Interesting that Subaru gives the towing loads and tongue weight, but not the cargo loads.

thanks,
Craig

frankw

The sticker in the Outback says that the combined weight of occupants and cargo should never exceed 900 pounds.

Frank

ateixeira

alpha: I'll take leather, I guess, but I don't want to pay for it. The LTD package costs more than a moonroof alone would, by far.

And Seth mentioned something in the chat last night - he doesn't like power seats. I find they can be annoyingly slow at times, and that's another thing I wouldn't want to pay for.

Congrats, Phil, wow, it replaces a GS400? I'm telling you, we are seeing the Legacy replace cars priced much higher.

Both wagons have a 900 lbs payload, sedans 850.

-juice

bblacha

Finally had a chance to compare a GT to a 2.5i (that I tested before.) It's obviously faster, but off-the-line the two feel very close. The steering is a bit faster but doesn't feel tighter. The manual tranny feels just as smooth.

To be the devil's advocate, I think Subaru priced the base 2.5i too low. In my opinion, there is not enough added value to justify the GT ($5K more) or the 2.5i Ltd ($3.5K.) The 2.5i has so much trickle-down goodness, I should hurry and get one before they notice :-)

rsholland

Craig, that info should be on the driver's door jam and in the owners manual, but I think Frank is right about the 900lb. The sedans are a bit lower, however.

Bob

ateixeira

Lotsa trickle-down goodness, I like that. ;-)

-juice

aaykay

Outback Wgn/GT Wagon: 900
Outback Sedan/GT Sedan: 850
Impreza Wagons: 900
Impreza Sedans: 850
Forester Wagon: 900

Bottomline:
All Subaru Wagons (regardless of size) ->900lbs
All Subaru Sedans (regardless of size) ->850lbs

rsholland

Subaru's pickup, the Baja, a measly 800lb.

Bob

ateixeira

Which makes no sense at all - it should have the biggest payload!

-juice

rsq798

Anybody else notice the average mpg drop between when the car is put to bed and when it wakes up in the morning? Last night it was 24.0. This morning it was 23.7. I would think it'd be the other way around, if anything, with gas flowing back out of the engine.

Also, does anybody have any idea how much the wheels weigh? I'm thinking about getting a set of wheels for winter tires, and I'd like to get a set of comparable wheels.

kens

I haven't noticed the average mpg drop before and after parking my GT for the night.

Ken

c_hunter

It's the reality of math -- the engine has started (which usually takes a smidge of extra fuel) and you are not moving, so you are getting *zero* instantaneous MPG. Depending on how long the average goes back in time, occurences of zero instantaneous MPG can have a big impact on the rolling average. If the average has been computed over a short time frame, small occurences of zero MPG will have a large impact on the rolling average. On the other hand, if you have 60 days of an average going, then I imagine brief zero MPG instances will have almost no impact on the average.

So is it up to the driver when to reset the trip computer and thus restart the rolling average?

Craig

rifleman

Am I wrong, or is there almost no interest in the base Legacy at a mere 165 horses? After reading about this car for 3 months and deciding to buy it (in theory) saw and drove it for first time--have to admit was underwhelmed. Base wagon auto did a lot of fishing for gears up and down like it couldn't make up it's mind. SO and I agreed (and we agree on nothing) seats left a lot to be desired. Couldn't make heads or tails of the side view mirror adjustor--was punching the 3 controls beneath the lever only to be told on return they were dead links, connected to nothing. And what's with that cheesy styrofoam type cover/storage area over the sub-sized spare? And the 4" wide rubber strip over the whole length of the rear bumper. AC seemed cool enough but nothing to write home about. And for as much as I've read about the upscale interior it compared unfavorably to the 94 Camry I returned to--both in terms of quality of materials and comfort. But oddly enough I am still interested in the GT--for one thing I know it has somewhat different seats, and if you really want a J wagon with AWD you basically got nowhere else to go. But have to admit, am now re-considering a car I drove and rejected few months ago once again, i.e. a TSX. Am reading on the other board they are handling quite nicely in inclement weather...and selling in the 25-26K range....

buzzct

When I was in the process of purchasing my new 2005 model, the gas prices began to climb - FAST! I had pretty much decided on getting the 6-cylinder model, but read the reviews that said it gets about 19 mpg. So, on driving the base model, I was surprised to see that the new transmission has the manual-shift mode, which provides me with just about all the power I need. And gas mileage has been running over 25 mpg - and the car isn't even fully broken in! This, my fourth Outback, is truly a joy to drive: I LOVE it!

jim1969

Really enjoying the car. I have almost 500 miles on it. Got 18.6 mpg on first tank of gas and appears about the same on the second. I hit lots of trafic. My only real complaint is lack of telescoping steering wheel. I'm still having a tough time getting comfortable. Does anyone know how this "adaptive driving habits capability" and the ""adaptive elec. direct-control automatic" work? How long does it take to learn? I'm babying it for the first 1000 which is NOT what I want it to learn! Also, has anyone direct mounted a radar detector yet? If so, how?

aaykay

The adaptive logic should readjust after your break-in, as you put on more miles in your normal drive profile. It is a rolling calculation.

kmartin

Ditto for me, BuzzCT. We have had some of the highest gas prices out here in Arizona for years, and I just didn't need more power/speed (I'm a lead-foot at heart, and the local city cops have no sense of adventure). I am getting 23-24 MPG in mostly-city driving so far with just over 3000 miles. I have gotten up to 25-26 on some half-and-half short hops across town.

Also, I opted for the taupe (really beige) cloth seats. Leather seats in AZ in the summer months (which are March through October :-) will burn your legs if you wear shorts a lot. The darker charcoal cloth and leather choices are really more like black, and even hotter. My parents have to carry towels in their Park Avenue so they can cover their beige leather seats when getting in and out....kind of defeats the purpose.

The tranny is very smooth, the car is quiet and rides like a dream. And the new looks are turning heads everywhere I go. I have had several double-takes, and a bunch of folks have stopped me and asked questions about the car. Funniest thing was when two macho-looking guys came out of my local Home Depot and did the double-triple stare as they walked by myself, mom and 94-year-old grandma climbing in. Even grandma got a kick out of that!

I still say this model is a bargain. A previous post alluded to this fact, as well. See post #2982, as bblancha's wrote: " The 2.5i has so much trickle-down goodness, I should hurry and get one before they notice :-) "

Oh, and one more little thing that's been bugging me...why is everyone dissing the stereo? I am a professional musician and teacher by trade, and the stereo is one of the best standard systems I have heard in any car recently.

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

PS: I reserve the right to think of something else trival to add later :-)

ssminton

After months of agonizing on whether to hold onto my Honda Pilot or sell it while the value was high, I have made a decision... Outback is the only way to go! Signed the papers yesterday for a 2005 VDC. The dealer has to "trade" for my preferred color so it will be mid-week before I am behind the wheel.

I wanted to down size and improve handling over my Honda Pilot. The Pilot was great on the big open roads of California but on the back roads of Vermont and Pennsylvania, my two driving zones, the Pilot left a lot to be desired. I was also looking to improve the "creature comforts" in my car. I took a bit of a "hit" in this area for Honda reliability, which has not been much better than my previous Explorer products.

Other cars I was considering... BMW X3, Lexus RX330, Passat Wagon, Audi A6 Wagon, Volvo XC, Ford Escape (hybrid). Despite the Subaru costing less than all of these, it was by far my favorite in performance and comfort! The only thing missing from the Outback is XM Satellite Radio... when will auto-makers figure out that this is an important feature that loses significant performance when added after market.

gshock

ssminton: how did you find the comparsion with the Passat wagon?

snowbird

Ditto that. I also signed the papers for a 2005 VDC last week, but have to wait a couple of months for the right colors (Atlantic Blue). I had also test driven the cars mentioned in ssminton's post and came to the same conclusion that we've got the best car for the money. The only negative (and this is purely subjective) is I find the center armrest too low and short to be of any support for long journeys and that Subaru should have made the extension as standard rather than as option. Otherwise i am very pleased with the car. I would also like to take this opportunity to thank everyone here for their help and input. Snowbird

c_hunter

My wife just bought a TSX, and it is a real nice car. I'm about to pull the trigger on a GT wagon or Outback XT, and the one thing I can say is that the turbo Subarus offer a more exciting driving experience than the TSX (and are about as refined).

In this company, I don't think the base Legacy 2.5i models compare well because of less power, but they are good cars in their own right. Once you test drive a TSX, do yourself a favor and drive a Legacy GT sedan. It will give you a good contrast between a great sports sedan (TSX) and an exhilirating one (GT).

BTW, we paid $24800 for my wife's TSX (auto without Nav). Sticker was $27035.

Craig

bolbo

Now that the car has been out a couple months, I'm trying to get definitive answers to the most troubling problmes on this car...plus a couple other odds and ends.

1. The rain gutter issue...what is the concensus? Is it problematic to every '05 Legacy? I have sat in one a couple times, during nice weather..so I have no reference point except from posters. Solutions? Someone said to wait a couple seconds before exiting the vehicle to avoid a 1/2 cup of water spill. I'd like to know if this is where we are at on this.

2. The arm rest extension...anybody here have the extension? Is it a permanent fixture or is it interchangeable? I read that you push a button and it moves up and out. That sounds electronic..news to me. Anyone have the real scoop on this and if the extension takes away from the aesthetics or is overly bulky. Pictures??

3. Anybody have an email contact for Subaru America where we (collectively) can voice a little outrage over the important issues that have been raised that many feel can be 'deal killers'. Example, no rain gutter, no foot room in rear due to low front seats, poor/limited choice of interior/exterior color scheme. Example: No taupe/wood with silver exterior. Perhaps the reversal of window switch so down goes down instead of up, etc.

I'm sure we all agree Subaru cares about feedback. They probably peruse these threads as well. We all agree that auto manufacturers make changes during the process to appease public opinion or other problems. Why don't we take the important issues (subjective to some extent) and try to get the point to Subaru 'early' and see if we can get a response.

I, personally, don't need to buy this car for many months (unlike many who are making there purchases already). Matters such as getting drenched when it rains and other non-subjectively crucial items are potential deal killers to me. Someone said it in a post long ago: Why, with all the great upscale aesthetic and performance changes did Subaru forget about 'Customer comfort'? They asked: "Subaru, are you listening?".

That sums it up quite nicely. Let's be pro-active here, and take the very few important oversights to the folks that can make it right. If they get the information (complaints) en masse and timely..they can then take steps to fix this during the current manufacturing process. Simply, let's not just complain amongst ourselves but put it to productive use and forward it to the folks that need...and probably 'want' to know... Subaru.

Some of the severe criticisms (deal killers) can be addressed in a serious fashion by Subaru...and I believe this forum, if it wants to, can bring about change...for the '05 cars. Obviously, the emphasis needs to be on critical comfort features...not simple personal taste. But I've said enough to see if the interest is here to make an impact...

We can start by compiling a list of the features, or omitted features, that are deterring a purchase.

krzyss

1. Fold down seats in sedan
2. VDC available for all trims (including manual transmission)
3. HID option

Krzys

PS I do not like black interior, what about grey ?

buzzct

Thanks for your comments to my post. I just thought I'd mention this, about my stereo. While I like it very much, I am having a major problem with it that (so far) the dealer can't fix: it keeps switching, by itself, to the CD mode. It can go for days without doing so, but then does it constantly! The dealer will be happy to fix it; however, so far they can't because it appears that the radio is tied into the car's computer!

bolbo

First, I apologize in advance to anyone who thinks I'm bashing their purchase or choice of options - not the case...just trying to get a concensus of opinion and get that opinion to Subaru in the hopes of change.

Another item I forgot to mention a couple posts ago would be the non-leather seat options. Both my GF and I immediately found the cloth seats to be unlike anything we've seen recently - and I mean this in a bad way. We couldn't find the right word to describe them, although 'canvas' came up.

The (perforated) leather is quite nice. Great. But what are your options if you don't want leather? Instead of offering nicely textured non-leather or faux leather, suede...whatever...they only offer you these, IMO, terribly textured cloth seats. I think those cloth seats are a terrible mismatch to the wonderfully upscale interior. Simply, it appears that the options in seating are extreme - luxurious or sub-par. My opinion only, but appreciate input from others.

I admit I haven't seen the non-perforated leather, but,in the GT's I believe it's leather or textured tent material only. Anyhoo, has anyone been in the latest Jeep Wrangler ...even their cloth seats are cozy.

Finally, if anyone has the Taupe Leather (which is the only way to get that appealing faux wood trim) I'd like to know how you are making out with it showing dirt, fingerprints, etc., and how keeping it clean is coming along. Local dealer had one on the lot that had rather thick blAck smudges above the driver door and elsewhere. I inquired and was told it was from an uncareful trucker (from Subaru). I asked if it cleaned easy; of course the answer was 'yes'. But I had to wonder why the car was put on the lot with a smudge like that in place. Either it was unremovable or the dealership doesn't have it's act together (more likely).

snowbird

It seems that the more upscale, and therefore more expensive, the model is, the fewer color choices you have. Take, for example, the top of the line Outback VDC. No matter what exterior colors you choose, you are stuck with taupe leather interior. On the other hand, the less expensive Outback 2.5i Limited has a CHOICE of taupe or gray leather.

How SOA rationalized this boggles the mind! Snowbird

rsholland

Bolob

I can't answer the rain gutter question. I think only owners will be able to address that. As to the armrest extension option, it's mechanical and not electrical. I've seen and experienced it on new Legacys and Outbacks at auto shows, but have yet to see it on any cars on dealer lots. BTW, I think this feature should be standard on every new Legacy and Outback.

Here on Edmunds in the Subaru forums, we are very fortunate to have a member of Subaru of America (SOA) as a regular participant. Her name is Patti, and her screen name is "Subaru Team." She is great with customer issues (that's her specialty at SOA) and she also regularly passes on suggestions that we have for future models on to SOA's Product Planning department.

As for ideas and suggestion for future Subies, there is a thread here called "Subaru Crew: Suggestions for Subaru" that Patti—and perhaps others (?) from SOA, monitor. I would direct all your suggestions to that thread as it makes Patti's job easier. If you post suggestions elsewhere, she may not see them.

Bob

kmartin

Sounds like they just need to get on the ball and replace either the CD player or the radio, or even the computer, until they fix the problem. I certainly wouldn't accept "they can't" fix it as an option.

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

kmartin

Yes, it IS annoying! I've asked this question a number of times, and have had no answers. If you connect the seat belt once and then disconnect it, at least the chiming stops...the light on the dash will continue to illuminate, though.

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

kmartin

Interesting...I found the taupe cloths seats instantly attractive. In fact, they are so much nicer looking than dozens of other vehicles' seats that I looked at, IMHO.

Granted they will be a bit harder to keep clean, but I have already Scotchguarded them (is "Scotchguard" really a verb???).

To each his/her own....

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

kmartin

I took a short 15-mile off-road trip on a graded dirt/rock road yesterday and thought I would share a few impressions. The road is marked as "primitive" by the USFS, but that has never stopped me...it was well-graded and well-traveled as far back as the last ranch on the route.

I dodged a few football-sized rocks and managed to hit what few muddy spots there were from the monsoon rains the night before. Overall I was ecstatic as to how well the car rides over the bumps (a lot nicer ride than my '99 Forester had). I wished later that I had let the tires down a bit, especially when I found myself tracking through a sandy wash several times.

I did find the higher ground clearance gives a false sense of security, especially when coming over a hill when you can't see what's in front of you over the longer slope of the hood (as compared again to the Forester). Gotta pay attention to the road and quit gawking at the scenery!

BTW, the sport shift on the AT is a blast on the steep hills and curves! And really a blessing, too. I generally tried to watch the RPMs and the indicator arrows on the dash to know which gear was available. The AT does continue to adjust (shift) after a few seconds, if need be. I certainly didn't need a turbo with MT for this kind of adventure :-)

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

nate

I am considering a 2005 legacy, but just can't take the ongoing seatbelt chime when it isn't clicked in, even when you are just standing still and not in gear. Does anyone know how to disable it?

krzyss

deserves the prize. I do not recall seeing "repost" 4 hours later (4 hours 36 minutes to be exact).

Krzys

PS Do not click "refresh" after posting a message. It reposts it.

wtc

According to the Legacy 2005 owner's manual on p. 1-20:

"It is possible to cancel the warning operation that follows the 6-second warning after turning ON the ignition switch by unfastening and refastening the driver's seatbelt. When the ignition switch is turned ON next time, however, the complete sequence of warning operations resumes. For further details about canceling the warning operation, please contact your Subaru dealer"

I've found that this method to 'trick' the warning chime system works only when the car is stationary. Once you begin moving above about 10 mph, however, the very annoying chiming returns -- again and again.

This is a real annoyance as there are many circumstances where you may reasonably want to drive without the seatbelt fastened in situations where there is no danger. For example, driving down our long access lane at 10 mph after getting out of the car to pick up the mail from our mailbox located along the main road. Or driving slowly from one store to another while in a shopping mall parking lot.

The only hope seems to be that last sentence, which hints that the warning chime can be disable by a Subaru dealer. I'm hoping this is true, but have not yet checked.

WTC

marc_h

Hello--

I have a question or two for the experts out there.

I recently bought a 5sp Legacy GT wagon and it is, without question, the best car I have ever owned. However, there are two things about the car making me crazy.

1) The A/c seems to "cycle." That is, while running it on max cool, the air gets cool, then warms up some, and then gets cool again, over and over. It is as though the compressor is going on and off. Is mine the only one doing this?

2) Does anyone know how to disable the daytime running lights?

Many thanks!!!

Marc in Columbus

tsy

Hmm. I don't remember problems with water dripping all over me on my last legacy when I opened the door. If you go out in the rain you will get wet, though ;-). It's supposed to rain here tomorrow. If I'm out in it I'll tell you how it goes.

If it really bothers you you could get some ventshades which would probably help. Or just get a gore tex jacket like everyone else here in Seattle!

I'm not sure what you mean abou the window switches, when you push down the windows go down, when you pull up the windows go up. Pretty standard. I do wish they were auto up too though, as they were in my Toyota and Passat.

Oh well. Life is full of compromise. If I really wanted all of these other things badly I could have bought an Audi S4, but it would have cost me another 15-20K!

I'm very happy with my GT lim. It's comfortable, quiet and composed when driven normally, but is a blast when you want to drive It's a great car. Not perfect (but what car is?), but great nonetheless, especially for how little you pay for it.

tom

dsattler

I haven't found any extraq water on the roof of my GT wagon, waiting to cascade down upon me when I open the door. And we've had a lot of rain since I bought mine a month ago. (Every time it rains I say to my wife "This is Subaru weather," and then I find an excuse to go out.)

tsy

As I was driving around last night I am quite happy with the amount of light the projector beam headlights throw. There's a very clear a focused cutoff, not unlike HIDs. But unlike HIDs, the proj beam headlights are not annoying. I had an SUV behind me with HIDs and they were very annoying! Having driven cars with HIDs I do not think it's enough of a difference to warrant blinding other drivers. I don't think they're brighter per se, just a different color (bluish). I know sometime back consumer reports did a report on HIDs comparing them with regular headlights and did not find any difference in their ability to see. There were differences from car to car though.

It's certainly not worth $1000 to have blue headlights, IMHO.
But I suppose in the quest upmarket the HIDs will come.

I have the black (charcoal) interior- and I agree with you, it wasn't my first choice. It looks nice, very European and serious, but I am thankful I don't live in the southwest where you can literally become one with your car on a hot day!

I have not missed the fold down seats, but then again, I don't need my car to carry large things. I guess VDC would be nice, but my last Toyota suv I found that I had to something really stupid or on purpose to activate the stability control, or it would kick in at very inopportune moments. Once again, nice to have, but it's hard to lose control of this car. Possible? I guess, but you'd probably have to do something very wrong ;-).

I wish it had a telescoping wheel or adjustable pedals, and perhaps just a little bigger trunk.

tom

ssminton

Although the Passat is a nice driving car. A couple things clearly put the Outback ahead:
1. Reliability
2. Ground clearance
3. Body protection (covered bumpers and rocker molding)
4. VDC System
5. Cost for equivalent trim level

Hope this helps.

eugeny10

Regarding the AC in they Legacy,

Mine does the same thing. It goes from cold to slighter warmer. You can really feel it change when it is blowing on your hand while holding the steering wheel.

Also, when I hit the front windshield defroster button, it seems that the air that comes out is much warmer than the setting. For example: I have it set on manual mode, AC on, both dials to 65 degrees and say vent or floor... the air coming out is cold. Then I hit the front windshield defroster, and the air blows at a much warmer temp. Anyone experiencing this also?
-Eugene