Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

kens

Chains -- I think for the GT you would want to go with low profile traction devices. Try SCC Chain Corp for a few solutions. I have their Z-cable for my Forester and they worked quite well.

Craig -- The Tunecast II basically sounds like a strong FM station. It's proabably a notch below the cassette adapter, but I've also found some cassette adapters to have suboptimal sound due to the tape head misalignment. It's not terrible like some people describe FM transmitter. I was pleasantly surprised.

The tape is a bright blue opaque tape and it does appear to be covering the entire bundle. Unless you're looking straight down next to the center storage bin, it's not noticeable. Only the color gives it away.

I think the whine is from downshifting. I hear it at just around 21-23mph. It disappears at other speeds.

Ken

aussie outback

Welcome new owners of Legacy/Outbacks! Sounds like we are all having fun in our new cars.

In reference to a post #2610 and later posts on braking distances.

What Car? Magazine in the UK tested the Outback 3.0R against the Volvo XC70 and included 2 braking distances test:

30-0: 31ft
70-0: 161ft

Compared to the list given by the poster from Car and Driver it seems that their example wasn't up to scratch (204ft). What Car? performance would put it closer to the Porsche and BMW sports cars in the C&D list. Would seem a fair result.

60-0 wasn't tested, but interpolated would come out at about 122ft instead of the 155 ft recorded by Motor Week (full listings in post #2610).

I guess we don't know whether What Car tests in a similar way to the other 2 mags (or with same tyres/road conditions), but given that we all seem reasonably happy with braking, I am happier trusting the better figures.

Although it is not available online, here is their "quick verdict" on the Outback 3.0R (easily beat the Volvo XC70):

For
Smart-looking family wagon with standard four-wheel drive and strong performance. Superb ride and handling balance, with excellent build quality.

Against
Not as spacious as many rivals. Engines sound throaty when pushed to the limit. No diesel engine to attract company car drivers.

If anybody wants to check out their site - http://www.whatcar.com, and probably road tests and research would be the section to look at.

Also - Re Fuel consumption

Outback 3.0R - first full tank: 18mpg (50/50 mix of city/country driving.

Town driving gives as low as 14mpg
Highway driving gives as high as 22mpg

Pretty unimpressed at that, given that I am being as light-footed as possible with only 300 miles on the clock. I did a half-tank fill earlier which came out at about 15mpg (town driving only) - I assumed that it was low because the dealer's free full tank was regular (91 octane in Aus), and that if I used premium (95 octane) it might make a difference. But nothing so far. I'm hoping that as the engine beds in it will improve.

Premium is often 10% more expensive here, so using it does add some cost.

One reliability note - my car didn't come with car mats - so I bought and installed them. There is a little plastic lug that you hook the driver's mat over to fix it in place. My wife took the mat out to give it a quick clean a few days ago and didn't see the lug which pulled out very easily. I have tried to put it back, but it doesn't seem to click in to anything. So others might want to watch our for that.

- Aussie Outback

sduford

That is great news, do you know which tires were on that car? That is the only major possible difference I can think of.

If the poor performance is in fact due to the Potenzas then I am relieved as this was a show stopper for me...

I do not mind specing out new tires at purchase time, the delaer should credit me for the Potenzas.

Sylvain

kens

After the first 200 miles my trip computer is showing an average 20.1 mpg. I'm quite happy considering it's a brand new vehicle and it started out at like 11 mpg. I have been driving mostly highway and with a light foot on the accelerator, however. Also the tall final drive ratio is helping quite a bit.

Since I've been driving mostly highway, I've tried to keep the RPMs varying as much as possible. I find that the Sportshift button on the steering wheel is a convenient way to temporarily move about 500 rpm or down (4<->5) to keep things from moving around.

Ken

kens

I'm also suspecting the tires on the USDM version too. Either that or the testers received vehicles with sample problems.

Ken

ateixeira

Ken: I see that in true OCD Club spirit, you already RTFM'd. ;-)

-juice

kens

juice,

Of course! Would you expect any less from this club member? I read through most of the manual that first night.

BTW, I didn't know this but the Legacy (and I'm assuming yours too) comes with child seat latches only on the window sides of the rear seat. I always thought that the center was the best since it protected against side impacts. Do you use the center position at all?

Ken

kmartin

I have the base 2.5i model with 4EAT, and I hear the same thing when slowing to a stop. It almost sounds like a faint fire engine siren for just a moment (a bit unnerving)...maybe somewhere around 3rd to 2nd gear (or 2nd to 1st?) when downshifting?

My '99 Forester did not make that sound, but the '92 Legacy I owned before that did the same thing. People who ride in the car with me sometimes hear it (if their hearing is pretty sharp). I'm getting used to it...all over again :-)

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

lilbluewgn02

We have put Michael in the center since he was born; even today at the age of 14, with 3 of us in the car, he is in the center; we always believed it was the safest place for childlren. Only when there are only 2 of us is he in the front passenger seat, but now he is tall enough to be there (by the time he gets back from camp, he will be taller than Susan!...where did my baby go???)
Serge

joyridea4

Juice, since there is room on the fence I need you to help me get my lazy boy recliner up there so that I can fence sit in comfort for the next 4 or 5 months while I try to decide what to replace my audi A4 with at lease end. My short list is Legacy GT sedan limited, Passat sedan or another A4 problem with the last two is that the model is changing and may not be available at the time my lease ends.
The last time I spent time on the fence with you guys (2004) I fell off and landed in a Red Forester XT. Which still resides in the stable and doing well I might add.
My wife and I took a test drive of the legacy GT last Sat at Van Botels in Victor ,NY. It was like a assembly line sales people out front with plates and cars sending off happy customers for test runs. This dealer sells for close to inventory. It appeared to be approx. $145.00 over invoice. They pride themselves in low pricing without haggling. They believe in volume and not over pricing. Test drive went well placing the legacy firmly on our good possibility list.
Now the wait begins. Keep the information flowing guys, it is hard to keep your balance on the fence.

njswamplands

finally saw my first '05 outback/legacy in a shopping mall parking lot. i couldnt believe how tiny it looked. no way i would 'upgrade' from my fxt. the fxt is tight inside, narrow and short but makes decent use of its space. i looked at the back of the '05 outback with that slooping roof line and decided it was too restricting on height. the rear bumper on this silver outback was so large you could hold a card game on the bumper overhang.

subaru really needs to round out its line with something larger.

ateixeira

Ken: no, because by the time LATCH systems came out, we were on our 2nd kid. So we've always had one on each side.

Usually the dog is in the middle. He wears a harness so we can actually slip the middle seatbelt through that to keep him there.

<moves over on The Fence to make room for joyride>

Yes, please join us. It was getting lonely actually. LOL

They will swampy, and I can't wait to see it.

-juice

c_hunter

This time an Atlantic Blue GT Ltd wagon with the charcoal interior. I absolutely loved it and would have bought it if the car didn't have 350 miles on the clock! Finally find the exact color combo I like and the car was a demo. The dealer was willing to give it to me for invoice, but I told them I could go up the road and pay a couple hundred dollars more for a fresh car (putting color aside). I pretty much had to extract myself from the dealership after that, they did not want to let me go. The place is a combo Buick/Chevy/Subaru dealership and I felt really out of place there. In a way, I'm glad I didn't buy from them. So, the search continues... I can get a silver/black GT Ltd wagon for $750 over invoice at another area dealer, and can probably talk them down to $500 over. That's my next stop, unfortunately that dealer is 50 miles away! If all else fails, I'll drive the 200 or so miles up to Fitzmall just to get better selection and pricing.

Craig

p.s. the dealer had a bunch of GT sedans and they look super hot

ateixeira

Oh man, that's my dream car! Even the color and model!

-juice

damish003

If you end up going for the Legacy, you're quite right about Van Bortels' in Victor. I used to live near there and worked in a local banks auto finance department. We were very impressed with how they operate. Check out Kitty VanBortels history with her Dads business. She's a class act, and the dealership reflects it. I actually used their internet department as a price comparision when I purchased my OBS last year. They were a bit higher than what I could get it for, but I believe that's due to them being under Subaru of New England. Pricing is higher for those dealers, for reasons I don't really understand. However, VanBortels really know what they're doing...good place to do business.

-Dan-

snowbird

Aussie Outback: Thank you for the whatcar? website. But where do I look for the braking distance comparisons. I tried the road tests and research sections and found nothing. Thanks. Snowbird

ntk1

Hi rsq
Interesting experience - took it to the dealer this morning and left it with them, went back at lunchtime to pick it up and got the (not unexpected) "this is normal for a turbo" story. I explained that I had owned many turbo's and this behaviour was definately not normal. So I took the head service guy out to show the problem and emphasise the point. I drove the car for appx 10 miles and it didn't stutter once !!! I asked what they had done and he insisted they had not touched it. I will see if the problem re-appears on my home commute (it is always worse on a colder engine) and will report back

Pete

mogt

I have a 2005 legacy GT ltd sedan 5EAT and I noticed a whine when
 I downshifted with the steering button from third to second
&nbsp around the speeds you mentioned there seemed to be none for the other gears; Mohan

ateixeira

Check out the Talk to the Press thread, they're looking for someone who just bought an Outback.

Here's your chance to get quoted in a paper or magazine!

-juice

kens

Thanks for the responses about the whine. I guess it's characteristic for the tranny. It's subtle and seems to happen only in 2nd at around 22-23mph with no load. Just being OCD careful.

Craig: Keep looking. I think dealers were originally holding their cards to their chest with the 05 Legacy and seeing how much demand there would be. I bet you they'll start dealing even more soon. BTW, I couldn't be happier with getting 5EAT. I've noticed it's been getting more responsive even after only 220 miles of driving.

Pete: It's funny how a problem never can be replicated with the dealer. At the very least, have them document your concerns so that if it is a problem, it's occurance will be linked to the first time you mentioned it.

What I would do is try and find ways to get it to happen and then insist that you take a test drive with a tech the next time.

Ken

ateixeira

Yeah, just call 800-SUBARU3 and ask them to register a "customer says" complaint. If it ever comes up later you can say you noticed the symptom early on.

-juice

aussie outback

Ahh...yes...the website doesn't report on braking distances - for those you have to get the magazine. Sorry about that.

If you were really keen you could order a back issue...not that I know which issue it was. Let me know if you want to go that route and I will check the issue.

The other interesting thing to do would be for me to write down the Volvo XC70 braking distances, and compare them to the US magazines (can dwcolarado who posted #2610 provide those from his C&D or Motorweek stats?). If they are similar, then you can probably assume any issues with different recording methods can be ignored.

I am pretty sure in the UK they use Geolanders as standard fit tyres as well.

- Aussie Outback

creeker

Driving home today, there was an ad for Carlson Subaru in Redwood City on KCBS. If I got the details right, the ad said the 36 month scheduled maintenance deal was available on "all 2005s". Caveat: Not sure if this is something Carlson is offering just themselves, or if it's a new Subaru-wide policy. (I wasn't paying total attention, so my details could be off a bit, as well.)

snowbird

That's alright, Aussie Outback. I think what's available so far is good enough for most folks. I was just being curious. Snowbird.

joyridea4

Yes they did give me a packet containing the dealer history. Its amazing that Kitty Van Botel started out a few years ago with one car in the front yard and now is the third largest volume subaru dealer in the nation.
Don

tsy

I just noticed that when the fuel gauge is low, the red ring around the gauge blinks when first starting up. Nice touch.

I also noticed when it rained here the wiper blade arms are quite sturdy- more like a BMW or Mercedes. Should work very well in heavy rain or snow or at high speeds.

Does anyone know if the WRX aluminum pedal covers will fit the Legacy? I'd rather not have the silver and red STi ones. They also don't come with the dead pedal cover, which would also be nice.

tom

kens

I think it might be a Subaru-wide thing. My dealer, Santa Cruz Subaru, also mentioned it too. Free 3/36 maintenance.

Ken

salbaby1972

If the blanket 3/35 free service for 05 Leg/Out is true, then SOA really listens to us. Wow, maybe?

jpaperguy

I've had a good time reading every post since this started. Ken, post 2864 was great. The detail was amazing and your love of Subaru was clearly shown. I can't wait to keep hearing more. Thanks so much to all of you.

bblacha

Are you guys sure the dealers are not just talking about the 39-mo. lease deal? (which comes with free maintenance)

c_hunter

Ken or anybody else with a new 05 -- can you post a picture of the subwoofer? I'd like to see how it looks compared to the sub in my WRX. If they are the same, I will just move the sub over from the WRX instead of getting a new one.

thanks,
Craig

ateixeira

Could be a Carlsen-only thing. It would be a great move (and a quick one) if Subaru addressed the coupon issue.

Fitzgerald here in MD offers 6 free oil changes over the first 3 years.

-juice

frankw

I just traded in a 2001 BMW X5 3.0 for a 2005 Outback 2.5XT. The only color available at the time was garnet red which wouldn't have been my first choice but it has grown on me. I seriously looked at new X5's but to get comparable performance you have to get the V8 which costs too much, in my opinion.

I did not get the Limited variation although a gold one would have soon been available. With the X5 I found that here in New Mexico whenever I openened the sun roof (moon roof) I immediately closed it because of too much sun.

The Outback is a lot of fun to drive. I have had trouble keeping the RPM's below 4000 during the breakin period--especially in sport mode (5EAT) but I back off as soon as a downshift occurs that causes it to rev too much. A friend of mine said, "You actually pay attention to that? I have 200,000 miles on my 1992 Legacy and I completely ignored it."

The Michelin tires on the X5 were great and I believe I will buy some for the Outback in a year or so. I would expect better braking with that change.

In general the fit and finish are excellent except that the lever for the lumbar support came loose. I was able to put it back but I expect the problem will return. Anyone else experience that?

I don't see the blue wire and I do have the subwoofer.

ateixeira

Congrats, Frank.

Subaru has a winner if they can satisfy former X5 owners.

-juice

njswamplands

they will have a real winner if they can get us out of our minivans

dcab

I got the free maintainance coupon in the mail today. It came with the $25 test drive offer (I already took advantage of this opportunity and got my Visa debit card last week) . I almost threw it out because Subaru is not identified on the envelope.

I wasn't included in the original mailing and hadn't contacted Subaru. But as an owner of two Subarus, holder of the Subaru MasterCard, having registered with MySubaru and need-desire.com, I'd like to think that Subaru is going back and including everyone who should have been included the first time.

That being said, I've been trying my best to stay off the fence for at least another year. This doesn't make it any easier! Does this offer include the 30000 mile service or just oil changes? The coupon says that the offer has an $800 value.

kens

Well, so far we have only two data points of free maintenance. Carlsen and Santa Cruz Subaru. Maybe, I'll post a question over at the Legacysti.com forums to see if anyone else is getting that from their dealers. In any event, I did send out for the free maintenance offer yesterday just to be sure.

Craig: I'll see if I can snap some photos tonight. The bottom of the seats on the Legacy are shrouded by carpet so I'll have to figure a way out to get around them.

jpaperguy: Thanks! I'm happy to know that others are getting something out of my posts. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

frankw: Congratulations! I've been keeping my GT out of Sport mode for now. What I do instead is leave it in "D" and when I find that I'm not getting enough RPM variance on the freeway, I just use the steering wheel buttons to downshift a gear.

So at 250 miles, I think both the driver and car are loosening up a bit. The car is feeling more like an extension of myself and it feels as though the power delivery has gotten smoother. Completely subjective and probably just me feeling more at home, I know.

Funny thing this morning, I put my key in to start the engine and I found my left foot pushing on the brake thinking it was the clutch! Despite my left foot getting bored, I'm finding 5EAT to be quite nice. The smooth shifts combined with the quieter interior are lending itself to a much more relaxed driving experience. Craig, I think I made the right choice.

MPG still is on the uptick and the computer is now showing 20.7mpg.

The auto climate control works well, but it's strange to leave the HVAC system on all the time after coming from only manual controls. The fans on the Legacy are quite powerful and they do an excellent job in quickly cooling down the interior even under a hot California sun.

Comment on the tire pressures. Checked the manual and door jamb and the recommended pressures are 35/33! I guess the lower profile tire requires a bit more air pressure -- which is great since that's about what I would use. And FYI, the dealer did their PDI correctly. The tires were set to 35/33 on the nose.

Ken

c_hunter

You are right about the tire pressure needing to be higher for the low profile tires -- the sticker on my WRX shows higher recommended pressures for the optional 17" wheel/tire, while the standard 16" setup calls for the normal Subaru inflations of around 30 psi, similar to my Outback and my wife's old Forester.

Don't go to any trouble to take the subwoofer pics if it's a hassle -- I was assuming it's like my WRX where you see it clearly when sliding the seat (passenger in that case) all the way forward. But I forgot about the covers on the new Legacy. In fact, that may keep me from installing the sub. If it involves removing the seat, that's a good enough reason not to mess with the install.

I'm down to three cars! A silver GT-Ltd at a local dealer, a silver GT-Ltd at Fitzmall, and a Atl. Blue "regular" GT at Fitzmall. I am leaning towards the blue GT -- I'll save a few $K and won't miss the leather and moonroof at all. In fact, I actually prefer cloth when it's available. As hot as it gets here, I have the moonroof cover closed on my Outback most of the time anyhow. As soon as the local dealer gives me their best price, I'll decide what to do.

I can't agree more on the 5EAT. The 5MT is fine, but pretty much invisible in the overall experience. The 5EAT will impress me everytime I drive the car -- I really love the way it shifts. And I will not miss a clutch when I get caught in traffic, which happens 1-2 times a week now.

I also got the phantom clutch syndrome when we got our first auto trans car. For weeks, I was stabbing the brake pedal, sometimes while driving! It's quite a surprise to have the brakes slam on when you think you're pushing the clutch pedal in!

Craig

ateixeira

SAVE ME FROM A MINIVAN SoA!

LOL

Ken: they nailed the air pressure? Point to that dealer, that's almost always overlooked.

Craig: too bad you can't get the moonroof with cloth, eh?

-juice

aaykay

I hope they come out with a NAV on the GT - at least as an option. They should also make the auto dimming mirror standard in the upper trim levels.

Small nits but I think they will get there soon.

ash13

You should go with the Atlantic blue. I have that one and it looks great. Perfect color for that car.

bookemdano

Frank,

This happened to me twice with two different Outbacks that I was test driving. It definitely made in impression on me about Subaru quality - unfortunately, NOT good .

Regards,

Dan.

joyridea4

Does the subwoofer option make a difference? Is it located under the passenger seat and if so is it felt by the passenger riding on top of the subwoofer?
Not sure my wife would take to much bouncing off the sun roof when I crank up the tunes.
Don

tsy

Has anyone noticed a piece of black plastic trim in the rear fender, but not the front? It only covers the metal part of the fender, about 2cm wide, facing the tires. Is this a dealer installed piece? Ken, have you noticed?

Hmm. All this talk about how great the 5EAT is makes me wonder if I bought the wrong car! The MT is a blast to drive though, as well as an electronically controlled auto can try to read my mind, it's just not as fun! Well, if I can't teach my wife how to drive stick I may be joining you all. ;-)

tom

c2t2

Can someone tell me if the 4-cylinder engine has the AVCS (variable valve timing)? The brochures and website don't seem to mention it, but Drive magazine and someone at the dealership did. Thanks.

ateixeira

2.5l Turbos yes, base 2.5l no.

Drive magazine made that error and a couple of others I noticed.

The WRX 2.0l turbo also does not get it (yet).

-juice

kens

Craig: I like Atlantic Blue quite a bit, but what I was worried about was that the color would get "boring" after a while. I find simple classic colors -- black, red, silver -- keep pleasing the eye longer.

Also, I park in an uncovered lot at work under the hot California sun. I don't know if it's the silver color or improved glass, but my charcoal grey leather seats aren't blistering hot when I get into the car. The A/C on the GT is very powerful and I'm comfortable within minutes of getting into an oven.

juice: Yeah, I was almost expecting to see 40+psi! Kudos to my dealer.

Tom: I'll take a look at my fenders later. BTW, don't fret you decision to go 5MT at all. Back-to-back, the 5MT is a heck of a lot more fun without a doubt. It's just that the 5EAT is a pretty darn good auto with quite a bit of flexibility so even former MT drivers don't feel too disappointed.

Ken

ateixeira

That dual-mass flywheel makes that clutch the smoothest in a Subaru that I've ever sampled.

You have nothing at all to regret.

-juice

bblacha

Interesting about seats not too hot, and good A/C. I was worried about the black seats here in TX, and considered it a strike against the Legacy in my Legacy2.5i-ForesterX decision. (Yes, it's coming down to such trifles.)

alpha01

"Craig: too bad you can't get the moonroof with cloth, eh?"

Juice, seriously, SoA is killing me on this one. A moonroof with cloth would be so sweet, and if optional, would make the 2.5 GT (not Limited) PERFECT in my humble opinion.

~alpha