Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

rsq798

Recap - I think I was the third person to post about a stutter in the acceleration of a GT, manual transmission, in the 2500-3500 RPM range. It seems to be alot less noticeable now, to the point that most of the times I don't notice it at all. My passenger noticed it before, he didn't today. It also seemed to go away instantly. (Hopefully, it stays away - I'm keeping my fingers crossed!)

Anyway, on the first drive after my break in period, I redlined the car up an onramp (I have a lead foot) and had a very noticeable stutter. I parked the car 20 miles later and went for a mtb ride. On the drive home, I didn't notice the stutter. Barely noticed it since. I've had the AC on, AC off, driven in the morning cool, noon sun (with heavy AC), etc.

So is it the reason I don't notice it much anymore because I accelerate differently now that I don't have to worry about stopping at 4000 RPM? Or since I don't know a thing about engine managment software, is it possible that it adjusted the engine characteristics to my real driving style?

ateixeira

automatic: I sent mine to Ken already, otherwise I'd offer it.

Choose your preference based on merit, though. I can see the coupon perhaps being a tie-breaker, but look at several other things, like full-time AWD, a longer powertrain warranty, better gas mileage, and free roadside assistance, which Honda doesn't offer.

It is a shame that these coupons aren't more readily available. Icing on the cake, perhaps, but who wants birthday cake without the icing?

Martin: a man on a mission! Go boy! ;-)

-juice

salbaby1972

We all should email Subaru USA about getting 3 years free maintenance standard and upgrading the Outbacks brakes.

Go to:

http://www.subaru.com/contact/contact/middle.jsp

moutback

I received the full market value trade-in offer in May from SoA that was only redeemable at a specific dealer in MD for a purchase of any 2004 (not 2005) Subaru (excluding STi). I also got the $25 Visa gift card certificate--from SoA by email and in my "Drive" magazine. I did not get the free maintenance offer until I called the toll free number.

In addition, I had emailed SoA about the free maintenance offer, and below is part of their reply:

"Although you purchased your vehicle just prior to the maintenance plan offer being made, we do want to extend this offer to you. I will send the coupon to you this week."

I don't know what this means because people have been receiving this offer beginning last month. Perhaps it's a regional thing, but this entire promotion surely ain't run like military drill precision.

kmartin

Moutback, I bought my '05 OB in May and received the coupon in June. When I got ready to fill out the coupon, I noticed the instruction sheet said the car must be purchased before September 1st. However, on the coupon, the "fine print" said BETWEEN June 1st and Sep 1st. The dealer gave me the 800 number to call, but I mailed it in anyway. I figured they must want my business, since it was their idea to send it to me in the first place.

BTW, I am a third-time Subie owner, and have registered my previous cars on the MySubaru.com web site. Would this be where they got my info? I don't remember registering on the need-desire.com site...I am always getting mailings from Subaru anyway, but I am not certain why I received the coupon and others have not.

My $.02's worth: I agree with other posters...keep calling the 800 number and let's pursue this with Subaru. If they want quality customers, they need to treat us well. This is a small but appropriate token of appreciation on their part, and I think everyone should have access to the same level of service.

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

kmartin

I have been hearing some static through the radio. I can hear the turn signals, wipers, emergency blinkers, etc., faintly through the speakers when the radio is on AM. I haven't noticed it much on FM or with the CD player running. I am assuming from other sources that this might be a characteristic of the window tint I had installed (metal based), but I am not certain that is causing it.

Has anyone had any success trying to tweak the antenna wiring harness? Maybe a gold-plated wiring connector or such? Or a radio interference gadget of some kind?

I pulled the trim off in the hatch and found the antenna lead to have a Clarion connector (booster of some kind?). I am not an electrician, but it seems to me there could be some sort of a fix here. Any suggestions?

Thx in advance!

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

kevin111

"Anyone else getting or tried these market vlaue trade in offers......."

- I received something like this in the mail of a guarenteed value offer for my current Subi on a trade in. It was well below trade-in KBB, so I threw it out.

ntk1

That is very interesting. Last weekend I removed the battery +ve terminal to reset the ECU as suggested by a couple of people. The initial result was that the stutter was much worse, however a couple of hundred miles later it is not as bad as it was originally but still noticeable. I currently have 700 miles on the odo, so I will try the red-line acceleration when I get to a 1000 and let you know what happens. I to am unsure how the ECU "learns" the parameters, is it a one shot deal or does the program get updated on an averaging basis ?
Pete

sduford

I don't think the braking distance equation is as simple as getting to the ABS point or not. if it were, then all cars with similar weight and tires would have similar braking distances, and that is hardly the case. There many more variables that affect the braking distance.

k9noles

I too called the 800 number concerning the maintenance coupon and got the same "You're not on the list" spiel, so I inqired how "the list" came to be compiled. Rather than attempt to answer that question, the lady said, "Oh, wait, did you send us an email about this?" I said I had, and was told, "Oh, your coupon is on its way-Watch your mail."

That's cool, I suppose, and they were very polite on the phone, but what a hassle...I think more and more people (if other forums are any indication) who hear about this well-meaning but ill-executed SOA promotion are getting (rightfully) cheesed off about it...might end up backfiring on them. Best intentions, huh?

In any case, our beautiful Legacy GT Sedan garners major lookers everywhere we go-Kind of embarassing, as we've only had "blend in" type cars in the past...but kind of fun, too.

Anyone else here have a Legacy GT Sedan in Denver area? Love to hear your impressions of blasting up I-70 into the hills...at the posted limits, of course...;-)

Steve in Denver

lmacmil

Did you get the auto or manual trans? I drove a manual Outback GT wagon last weekend. Seemed quite peppy. Would buy the sedan if I was buying today but not sure about manual vs. auto. Have had an auto car for the last 3 years after about 15 years driving manuals and I kind of enjoy not shifting.

dougp

Had the chance to test drive the 2.5 XT tonight. Overall, pretty impressed. There is a turbo lag, as was expected. I've recently driven the dodge magnum RT, and I may have liked it better overall, but each has it's pros and cons. However, I'm very dissapointed in the stereo. This was the upgraded system with a subwoofer. It just lacked all around. An even bigger bummer was what appeared to be that they have really tried to make upgrading the system a near impossibility. Add to that no satellite radio availability, really behind the times. Too bad at a minimum they didn't contract out a killer stock system you could upgrade. Other than that, overall a nice car. Unfortunately the stereo situation will likely keep me from buying. Any suggestions (anyone know if that stereo could be upgraded?)

k9noles

Our Leg GT Ltd is a 5 speed-my wife's car and she loves driving a stick. In heavy traffic, yes, always a drag, but here in Colorado we're never too far from a good "cut loose" road when we need it. Also, my Pathfinder's an auto, so 1 of each works out well for us in most any situation.

Ups and downs to both trannies...:-)

ateixeira

We took a quick spin in the elusive, rare Outback sedan yesterday. And cashed in that $25 coupon. ;-)

Any how, no change in my feelings - very nice interior, upscale aura. Good head room in the back seat even with the moonroof, and this was the sedan - the wagon has more room.

Wife loved the seats, heated and perforated. In fact I think I spoiled her because we later looked at a Legacy 2.5i sedan and she didn't like the cloth seats on that.

Drove nicely, very silent and smooth. Throttle is a lot smoother than her 2002 Legacy L, and the auto shifts impreceptibly.

The H6 sedan was street-priced at just over $30k, so I really think a GT sedan is a better value. She did like the ease of ingress/egress and the commanding seating position. And the clearance would help over those pesky speed bumps.

Funny thing is she had an offer to drive a Lexus IS300, so we did so immediately after. While the dealership was much nicer (cappuccino while you wait, sir?), the car certainly wasn't.

In noticed some hard plastics on the arm rests and the lid on the center top bin, out of place in that dealership. I also rode stiffly and acceleration seemed about the same. Space was *tight*, claustrophobic for me.

Funny conclusion? The Outback was the one that seemed to belong in that nicer dealership. The Lexus actually felt kinda cheap in comparison.

My wife drove, mostly, so we didn't push the handling. We were evaluating them as family sedans, primarily.

-juice

ryanl1

Does anyone know if the free maintenance coupon says valid only in U.S.? The person at toll free # didn't know and woudn't mail me one because I wasn't on the "original mailing list". Went to Subaru.com website but it's only for U.S. citizens.Went to Subaru.ca website for Canadians but there is no place to contact anyone.
I would feel better being SOL in Canada vs not being able to get a coupon that would have been valid in Canada.

ash13

I have a legacy GT sedan, atlantic pearl, and like Steve in Denver I have been getting a lot of looks from others. Most notably I had a cop ride over on his bike and knock on my window while I was waiting to make a left and ask me about. Now I do not want that kind of attention when driving but it was cool. He was looking to buy one too and wanted to know how it drove.

Guess we all better be on the lookout. Don't want too much attention from our law enforcement brethren

salbaby1972

At least you know the COP wants one too! The GT is a very slick car. My wife test drove a white/5eat one for an easy 25 bucks and we both were very impressed. The car was fast, braked very well and took corners well. I can't wait for another test drive. now we gotta wait for NAV.

alpha01

Well.. theres something to be said for IS being in its 4th model year, and the Outback having just been introduced..

When the IS is replaced for 2006, it *might* be a different story, but even today, I'd bet the IS can outhandle a Legacy OB 3.0R sedan.

~alpha

kmartin

Ryanl1, my coupon says it's only valis for residents of continental US and Alaska, and only on cars purchased in same (cont. US and Alaska).

As far as Subaru.ca, all I could find was their customer service snail mail address:
Customer Service
Subaru Canada, Inc.
5990 Falbourne St.
Mississauga, Ontario
L5R 3S7

Also, this name and phone contact apprears in almost all of the new releases....perhaps this person could help: "Contact: Elaine Griffin (905) 568-4959"

Good luck!

KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

kmartin

Since we know Crown Vics are not safe, maybe the next generation of police cars will be Outbacks! Hmm....

KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

ateixeira

Cop knocked on your window? Man, I would have though to myself ... just how fast was I going? ;-)

alpha: yes, but the IS definitely felt "old". It's overdue for an update.

Handling was better than the OB sedan, but not better than the GT. And both Subies rode much better.

-juice

kmartin

Ah, Juice, once your significant other gets hooked, you'll be sliding off that fence in no time :-)

-KarenM-

kevin111

With the intro of the GT and its price point, can only think of a reason to go with the IS due to the Lexus experience. The GT's interior is even nicer!

BTW, the IS300 I believe will be replace in 2005 as an '06 model. Complete redesign with a new engine (rumor of the 3.3 liter).

ateixeira

It was hilarious, Karen. I showed her the OB sedan, which she liked, then we quickly looked at a base 2.5i with a cloth interior. She was spoiled by the 5 minute test drive, already, and liked the H6 model better.

How much for a GT Ltd Sedan again? ;-)

-juice

tsy

I've had my car for one week today and like others I've been 'getting looks' too. I've only seen one other outback on the road here ever- so they're still new and people are trying to figure out what they are.

Does anyone know how the short shifter drives compared to the standard 5 sp? None of the cars at the dealer had a short shifter to compare, and it's almost $500 to have installed. It's hard to complain about the standard shifter, so I don't know that putting another $500 into my car so I can shift a hair quicker is worth it.

Since I can't go over 4000 rpms, I can still have some fun taking turns. Found a long onramp yesterday that sweeps right, then left, then right. Very fun. The car understeers a bit when pushed hard into a turn, I wonder if the auto drives a little differently since it's rear biased (slightly).

The stereo is not the greatest in the world (I didn't expect a Nakamichi or Mark Levinson). It's certainly better than my last toyota or chevy though. I'd say equal or better than my VW Passat. It could probably use better speakers and amp, but I have to turn the stereo off to listen to the engine!

KarenM, I haven't noticed any static, but I will check today.

tom

bat1161

A quick question reagrding the new OB. One of the accessories offered is the front bumper guard. Does anyone know what this is made from, and does this replace the "plastic" heat shield? Edmunds does not list this option on their accessories list, while the Subaru website shows it.

Mark

hunter001

I would really like to see the GT limited Wagon, with the 3.0R engine. If such a combination came with the Navigation system, I would pick it up in a jiffy.

Much as the 2.5Turbo sounds interesting, I still prefer a non-turbo engine for my long-term car, regardless of the strides in reliability that turbo engines have made over the years. I had a WRX wagon earlier, which was completely trouble-free until it was totalled but I still prefer a non-turbo engine.

I have had the Navigation in my other car (Acura 3.2TL, which has since been sold) and really want my next car with the NAV. It will then keep my Outback Sport company, and I will stay in the Subaru fold !

Later...AH

c_hunter

Mark, it's cosmetic only, and just goes on over the lower front lip.

Craig

yankee617

Well, a very pleasant woman at the Subaru dealership behind SubaruAccessories.Com found out from SOA that: (a) Valley Industries stopped supplying trailer hitches to Subaru a few years ago, (b) a company called "Flex N Steel" is now the OEM for 'Genuine Subaru' trailer hitches, and (c) the Subaru trailer hitch is a "Class I" hitch (capable of 2000 pounds Gross Trailer Weight and 200 pounds Tongue Weight).

Well, a quick search on the web did NOT discover any company named "Flex N Steel" but I did turn up a likely company called "Flex-N-Gate". Here is their home page <http://www.flex-n-gate.com/>. Subaru is on their client list and they got some awards from Subaru in 2002 and 2003. Anyway, I called them and, while they would confirm that they are indeed the manufacturer, they would not tell me *anything* about the trailer hitch (because Subaru wants it that way).

So I called Subaru customer service (800-782-2783) and spoke with "Adam". Adam found my name/vehicle (its spooky how much they know about you) and confirmed there are no recalls. He could not supply me with a trailer hitch installation instruction sheet but did tell me its a "Class I" hitch and, despite being rated at max 200 lbs tongue weight with max 2000 pounds gross trailer weight, it would pull up to 2400 pounds if I had the appropriate model car. He was a bit stumped when I asked him the weight of the hitch... he looked for the shipping weight and came up with a mere 10 pounds, but I know that makes no sense. I also asked him if it includes the "draw bar"... he said he knows it does NOT include the ball but he thinks it *does* include the draw bar (but he's not 100% sure). He was certain that it includes the wiring.

So there you have it... I cannot find any advantage to buying the 'Genuine Subaru' trailer hitch. It has a high retail price of $264. (I found one for only $224 but I'd have to pay $43 for shipping.) Its only a lower-rated Class I hitch. I think the weight is about the same as with other hitches and I can't find any advantage in terms of "fit and finish" either. Moreover, my local dealer wants 2 hours labor ($164) for installation and full retail price for a total of $428 plus tax.

The best deals seem to be either a "Draw-Tite" (for about $195 to $215 including draw-bar and wiring harness and shipping) or a "Hidden-Hitch" (for about $189 to $192 including draw-bar and wiring harness and shipping). Both are higher-rated Class II hitches requiring no drilling to install and 3rd parties will install them for far less than my dealer wants. I found there are a couple of "U-Haul Hitch Centers" nearby that are authorized dealers of Draw-Tite hitches so I'll probably just give one of them a call.

Yan

ateixeira

Mark: it's painted plastic. It's standard on high-end models and optional on others. But it is purely cosmetic. Think Audi allroad or Volvo XC70.

Yan: at one point they had a recall on previous OE hitches, so that may be why they changed suppliers.

But Subaru is not in the business of making hitches, so going to a 3rd party was a natural choice. You can do the same.

My OE hitch, for a '98, came with the draw bar but not the ball.

-juice

ryanl1

I feel better now...I think.I'll feel mucho better when I slide into a new GT. Too bad Lexus IS lagging with upgrade and no AWD otherwise it would merit serious consideration.

ateixeira

IS is small enough than you might consider the WRX a more direct competitor. Especially with the interior upgrades the 2005 WRX just got.

-juice

kens

I've driven a GT with both the standard and STS option. The STS with the Momo knob does not sit any lower than the stock shifter. In fact, it appears to be a smidge taller, possible due to the fact that it's a symmetrical sphere shape vs. the stock shifter's tapered design.

What's different, and comes with no surprise, is that the throws are significantly reduced. I'd say the length is any where to 1/2 to 3/4 the distance of the standard shifter.

However, the shorter throws come at a price -- the shifter requires more pressure to move. During my drive, I found 3rd gear to be a little too stiff for my liking.

Lastly, I thought the Momo knob didn't match the interior quite as well as the stock shifter. I thought it was a bit flashy and didn't quite match the interior trim.

If it were me, I'd skip the STS option and save that money for a set of better tires.

Ken

salbaby1972

If you really need to spend money on a premium brand, go for the Saab 9-2x, it 33K fully loaded and will out handle the IS. Otherwise the STI is perfect.

-S

jchagtdi

Perhaps the question the should be asked is "why are these coupons given to new lesees, and not those who purchase?" The several TV ads I have seen for Legacy lease deals state "free scheduled maintenance for 3 years".

I'd bet the "original mailing list" line is true for those who received the coupons unsolicited. I would make sure that I had assurance that I would receive this offer before taking delivery...if it's that important to you.

kevin111

"IS is small enough than you might consider the WRX a more direct competitor."

- Juice funny you mention this, the WRX and IS300 are VERY close in size. I have had my WRX next to an IS300, and they look virtually identical in size. The WRX even has a bigger trunk!

I assume the STS for the GT is the same as the one for the WRX. The STS will require more effort to shift, but when broken in is pretty smooth. The shifts are about 30% less and really easy to snick through the gears. Much less arm action which helps with arm wear on a long trip or traffic.

kmartin

Oooo, don't order this! I did, and when it came we looked at it and saw that it's only a piece of cheap plastic to cover the underneath plastic portion of the bumper. I thought it looked like it might be lightweight aluminum from the pictures in the pamphlets.

Even the service manager said it looked like a piece of junk to him. He couldn't see how it could possible protect anything. He did mention that if I ever got the underneath part of the bumper torn up it would be cheaper to just slip one of these over it than replace the bumper.

Sorry I didn't mention it sooner, Mark!

BTW: I didn't have to pay for it...it was not a problem for them to return it.

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

subaru_team

than the offer with the coupons. I believe there is a coupon for leases and one for other target markets. I think the list had some folks that had never purchased a Subaru, some that had asked for more information from "Need-Desire" and other's that were previous owners. Back when the site was first launched, I think I suggested that folks sign-up since I had heard that there would be benefits. If I didn't, I'm sorry.

Anyway, please see my post on the "Official Subaru" board. We are out of the extra coupons that we had.

Thanks!

Patti

kmartin

I believe Subaru may have been quoting you numbers for the older '04 models, which may have had a lower towing capacity.

My brand new Subaru OEM dealer-installed hitch is rated at 3000 lbs for 6-cyl engines and 2700 for 4-cyl with a 200-lb tongue limit (the sticker on the hitch itself confirms all this). I was told it was a Class II hitch when it was installed, even though the Subaru owners manual says it's a Class I (early pamplets also listed it incorrectly as a 3500-lb limit).

My dealer's part guru is going to call his contacts in Atlanta tomorrow and try to find out for sure. He'll give me a call back when he knows something.

BTW: Subaru also says tow no more than 1000 lbs if your trailer has no brakes.

The trailer light pre-wiring and ball mount were included with this new hitch, but no ball (different balls are used for different applications).

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

c_hunter

Those hitch prices seem high. Look here:

http://www.etrailer.com/products.asp?model=Legacy&category=hi- tch&year=2002&make=Subaru&t1=&h=e

Craig

ace1000

It bothers me that some people get free maintenance and others don't. The way it is being done just doesn't seem to be fair and makes me want to defer any purchase until I understand whether I will get the free maintenance.

I'm not aware of other manufacturers handling the free maintenance this way. When it is offered, everyone gets it for that model year.

rsorganize

John:

Bought it at a Relax-the Back store. If there isn't one in your area, there are other stores that sell these kind of high-end back products (Healthy Back, for example). Or, R-T-B has an online store.

The Tempurpedic seat cushion was $125. The full seat (bottom/back) styles can cost more than $200 with Tempurpedic foam. There are some cheaper visco-foam products out there and many of them are as good as Tempurpedic...but it's probably a good idea to try them to check on the quality of the foam.

IMHO, these products are nice to have. We sleep on a Tempurpedic mattress, for example. I like the seat cushion, but I think I'll try a full seat model, which helps with the lumbar support and overall seating posture/comfort. But, beware: since they are about 2" thick, they do lift you up - and might create some headroom problems.

Good luck. If it works for you, should make the driving experience near-perfect. Other than this, my VDC is great...hope it's the same with your XTLtd.

Peace.

lmacmil

Just added this group to my subscriptions but when I select read subscriptions, it sends me to payge 107 or so. I have read many messages on later pages and probably every message on the last 3 or 4 pages but I still get sent back to the middle of the group. How do I get Town Hall to recognize that I've read messages and send me to the most recent?

tsy

Karen, I drove around all day today listening to the radio, and tried turning the wipers on and blinkers- no static or faint noises. The radio doesn't do so well where the reception is poor- I did get some static then. I don't know if the wiring for the wagon is different than my sedan though. Maybe they need to replace the head unit?

Thanks for the input on the STS. I think I'll try one before I drop another $500, especially since I can't complain about the stock shifter.

I have found one thing annoying about the car- once you start it, if you or the passenger don't put on the seatbelt the car starts chiming.
So even if you're just sitting on the side of the street or waiting in your driveway, you need to put on your seatbelt or listen to the car's warning.

There's also tire road noise on course roads and freeways, which I probably wouldn't even notice if the car weren't so quiet on smooth roads. It's a trade off for the low profile tires.

The only other minor annoyance is the dual zone climate control- if I'm the only one in the car I need to turn 2 knobs to adjust the temp.

I know it's not much, and I'm being very nitpicky here, but there's not much to dislike about this car. All of my friends have been very impressed with how well the car was designed and built, and even the college kids in my church like the way it looks. Add some Xenon headlights and upgrade the interior and it would easily be a BMW or Lexus killer. Maybe that's where Subaru is trying to go?

tom

njswamplands

dbyang

I would put little stock in that reviewer's opinion. He didn't care for the look of the airscoop, which I believe would be an extreme minority position. The auto shifts much better than he thinks and the turbo lag is not bad at all if you know how to drive a turbo, ie, keep the revs high.

bat1161

Thanks for the heads up folks. KarenM I'm glad your dealer didn't give you a hard time in returning it. I thought it was plastic, but wsn't sure.
    When I do go for the new car, I'll probably get in touch with AZP for their rally armor (Mike- I assume you will be offering it on the '05s). I know it may be a bit of over protection, but I enjoy having a front skid plate, especially with some of the things lying around on NYC streets.

Mark

saedave

The WSJ review was very appropriate. My test drive of a GT wagon with automatic revealed way too much turbo lag for me to be interested in purchasing it. In contrast, my drive of the 3.0 Bean was much more satisfactory with smooth and adequate performance. The Bean is a candidate to eventually replace my Passat W8 wagon....except for questions about the braking distance. Perhaps the choice of factory tires is biased too much towards off-road use. Has there been a definitive braking test on the Bean or VDC yet?

kmartin

Tom, I am pretty certain that the static is caused by, or at least complicated by the metallic window tint. This has been the topic of many past discussions. The design of the new in-window antenna is such that there's really no way around it.

The warning chime was a pet peeve I brought up a few weeks ago. We tend to like the car running with the AC on out here in Phoenix in the summer, even when we're parked. I'm getting used to the chime (sort of), but it is totally annoying when the car isn't even in gear. If anyone knows any way to disable this while the car is in park, PULEEZ let me know :-)

-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

ateixeira

Lee: I had that problem once, the "catch up" feature on the Message Center fixed it.

Anyone have a graph on the new turbo's torque curve?

-juice