I've got just under 750 miles on my H6-3.0 Outback (2004) 35th Anniversary. I picked it up new with a full tank and 160 miles (since they had to drive it here from out of state)... next fill-up was 14 gallons (premium) at 450 miles... and the next (latest) fill-up was 10.2 gallons (premium) at 712 miles. So I figure I was getting 20.7 MPG on that first tank (mostly city driving) and 25.7 MPG on that second tank (mostly highway driving)... this is right in line with the EPA estimates (21/26) for this vehicle.
The manual doesn't call for the first oil change until 3000 miles but, in addition to that, I also plan to do an oil change at about 1500 miles.
Friday evening I noticed that my windshield squirters are not working, front or rear. The fluid reservoir is filled and I made numerous attempts (thinking the lines were empty) so I think it must be the pump... hopefully just an electrical connection or a fuse thing. That was the first time I tried to use the squirters. I'll contact a dealer Tuesday... hope they don't try to charge me anything to fix it!
Ouch! $477 seems like a lot for a hitch... although it seems exactly what dealers typically want to charge for this option. When I was shopping, I had several dealers quite me around $485 but one said I could get it done by a 3rd party for $300. When I finally bought the car, I told the dealer I could get it for $300 (based on what I'd heard elsewhere) but would go slightly over that for him to do it just to save me the hassle... he told me that the part cost $294 plus 3 hours labor to install - so he would give it to me for $400 (plus tax). I think I've posted the rest of my story and I STILL don't have a hitch (but my money is coming back in the mail... so they tell me).
Anyway, the few extra dollars you may have spent will be forgotten soon enough and you are already enjoying your hitch while I'm still figuring out what one to get, who I should have install it, etc.
Since you got an OEM hitch, I would appreciate it if you could figure out who made it. Could it be printed somewhere? Would your dealer know? DaveM reports that they used to be made by Valley... I have no clue who they are (but could do some web research to find out).
Could you (or anyone) fill me in on this service coupon thing? Is this only for 2005 models or are they for 2004 models too?
My dealer has never mentioned them to me and nothing has shown up in the mail yet (2 weeks ownership today). Only on this forum have I seen anything about service coupons.
What do the coupons provide (pay for)? Are they for things like "free" service or things like "15% off" or what?
I read that I can request these somewhere... where? Should I go ahead and request them, or should I wait and see what arrives in the mail?
They don't seem to make a hitch for the 2004 Outback... only for the 2004 Impreza and the 2004 Forester... I haven't checked other model years. Here's the link for installation instructions on the 2004 Forester...
I just wandered over to hitch-web and they showed 4 hitches for my
2004 Subaru All Wheel Drive Outback H6 35th Anniversary Wagon 5 Door
These 4 hitches are made by (1) Dalan, (2) Hidden Hitch, (3) Curt, and (4) Draw-Tite. All are Class II hitches and all (including Hidden Hitch) say that the cross-member of the hitch is EXPOSED beneath the vehicle bumper.
The instructions for the Dalan says you need to drill holes and it only mentions model years 1990 through 2001 (and the hitch-web blurb says "while supplies last") so I'm disinclined to choose this brand.
The other three brands all say that they use existing holes so that no drilling is required. They say they range in weight from 35 pounds (Curt) to 45 pounds (Hidden Hitch)... the instructions for the Draw-Tite says it weighs about 34.5 pounds. I wonder why the Hidden Hitch seems to weigh 10 pounds more? Is this a good thing or just more to lug around?
I got this reply from SubaruAccessories.com which says the OEM hitch *is* made by Valley! Maybe I should call Valley to confirm this since it sounds contrary to their web site.
Yan
======== THEY ARE FACTORY SUBARU TRAILER HITCHS THAT INCLUDES THE TAIL LAMP WIRING/CONVERTER THAT PLUGS INTO THE PREWIRED AREA OF YOUR VEHICLE.THEY ARE MANUFACTURED FOR SUBARU BY VALLEY HITCH CORP.
THANK YOU PAUL SCHUBLIN MON-FRI 8AM-5PM PACIFIC TIME ZONE
-----Original Message----- From: New England Guy Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:27 PM To: Sales@SubaruAccessories.com Subject: Trailer Hitch?
Are the trailer hitches you sell (for the 2004 Outback Wagon) genuine subaru
Yan, When I bought my 2000 Outback, the windshield squirters weren't working. I popped open the hood, and found that the electrical harness was not plugged into the receptacle on the pump. So, I just snapped it in and was in business.
Hidden Hitch includes the drawbar, so I bet that accounts for the weight difference. None of the other brands typically include the drawbar.
Note that all the hitch crossmembers are exposed, but the Hidden Hitch will be the furthest forward so it is less likely to be noticed. It should be even with the back edge of the muffler. Draw-Tite will be a couple inches aft, in back of the muffler (over the tailpipe).
You ask an interesting question about reliability...if readers permit me to make a long post (another one! Sorry! Hope they are interesting reading), I might be able to put it into perspective (without actually answering your question?!)
Firstly - the 2.5 turbo has been around for a while in the Forester, so Subaru should have plenty of experience with keeping this engine reliable. I drove the Forester XT before buying the OB 3.0R (no OBXT available in Australia), and chose the Outback principally because it was a newer, better design. But also because I preferred the smooth delivery instead of the uneven power delivery of the turbo. One other point worried me with a manual XT - you had to be careful with your gear changes because the awd system felt like it put some stress on the drivetrain when lifting the clutch. I know WRXs had a history of burning through clutches when driven hard, whereas in the auto Outback it didn't feel like a problem (and I dislike auto trannies).
As can be seen from JD Power surveys, the Japanese generally build the most reliable cars on the planet, and Subaru are generally up the top of the list when it comes to customer satisfaction. Very few posts to the Subaru forums complain of reliability issues. Historically, the Japanese have always built reliable cars, but the engines have not been built to last as long as say Volvo/Mercedes Benz (whose engines were built to turn at much lower rpms), partly because in Japan vehicle fitness laws dictate selling your car after 4 years - the costs of keeping it registered are more than selling and buying a new car. Also keeps the local industry ticking along. Hence there have been stories of local Japanese never servicing their cars in that time - never even changing the oil! However the cars still seem to cope with this abuse and last another 10 years. It is not for nothing that all the TV coverage of Middle East shows locals in 20-year old clapped out Toyota Hi-Luxes. In the UK, a TV Program called Top Gear (is it on cable in the US? You have to watch it!) tried to "kill" a Hi-Lux. They dumped it in the ocean for 4 hours, then dropped a caravan on it and smashed it with a wrecking ball. Still started. So they set fire to it (it still started). The next show, they strapped it on top of a 30 storey building that was being demolished. After the dust had cleared they got a crane to lift it out of the wreckage. Yep, you guessed it, it still started (and drove).
In summary, there may be some small variations in reliability, and weak points, but generally, these cars are as reliable as can be.
Hope I am still spouting the same message in 2 years with the Outback...
Thinking about getting a new '05 Outback base model. Considering the 5 speed manual as well. I see that Subaru is offering lease specials on these vehicles. This would be my first Subaru
Any advice anyone could offer would greatly be appreciated. Options, things to look for or consider, etc?
I have owned two Outbacks (a 2000 model that my parents drive now and a 2002 that I still have) and they are great cars. I am looking forward to the not-so-distant future when I can upgrade to an 05 model. Thought I still like my 02 a lot, the new 05 models are really improved. I am more impressed than ever with the cars!
The new 05 models are pretty hot right now. When things settle down, you should be able to negotiate the price to within a few hundred dollars of invoice at any reasonable dealership.
There are a LOT of options for the Outback -- so you can really tailor the car to your use. Also, many of the options are a DIY install -- you can order the parts at wholesale and put them in yourself.
Not much else to say -- just look for the color and options you want, and go from there!
I'd just like to say thanks to everyone who replied to my post about the maintenance coupons. This forum has been very educational as I've been reading over the past few days.
I was wondering if anyone knew why the break in period is so long for this car. Is it the same with other Subarus? I don't remember the break in period for my last legacy. I know some manufacturers don't even have a recommended break in period any more. Anyway, just curious.
Also, my salesperson said the car would run fine on mid grade gas instead of premium. I kind of doubt this but was wondering if anyone had any experience with their WRXs or FXTs.
Five days and I still love this car. Even more because it has been so easy to live with on a day to day basis. It's quiet and seems very solidly built, and I can actually drive around town without ever going above 2000 rpms (although I have to shift a lot!) But the car handles turns very well and can go quite fast when needed (or wanted) even staying below 4000 rpms. I'm still looking for manufacturing defects- I'll comment on them when/if I find them.
Congrats on your new purchase. I think the break-in period for the Legacy is 1000 miles and keep the revs below 4000RPM unless it's an emergency. I don't think this is any longer than other makes.
Why would you want to skimp on fuel on a performance engine by going to mid-grade? The cost difference on an annual basis is fairly minor considering the other maintenance costs you would normally incur. Have you tried doing the math yourself?
Lastly, it's equally important to keep the engine from lugging during the break-in period. Driving around 2000RPM is fine if it's a low-load condition, but be careful not to try going WOT uphill on a warm day.
Thanks for the advice. My Passat didn't have a break in time, my Nissan was 500 miles, and I can't remember what my toyota was. I was just wondering if the 1000 miles was a recommendation that goes back for years and years and has not been changed or if it is for the turbo engines.
I agree about the gas, but it puzzled me that the salesperson said the car would run fine on mid grade, and I was curous if anyone else has done this, or was my salesperson totally out to lunch.
About the engine running at 2000 rpm, I was just commenting on the fact that it's quite driveable at this rpm and not lugging, which I consider quite low for a 4 cylinder engine. I continue to be impressed by this car. Of course, it's much more fun when you get the revs up! (I must confess I have run it beyond 4000 once or twice, just to see what it's like)
I'm trying to find excuses to drive the car so I can reach 1000 miles! Otherwise it will take a month!
A month?!! Geez, I passed 1000 in the first week! Mine has been great (3.0R/VDC Wagon). I, too, exceeded 4000 rpms on a few occasions - mostly trying to 'impress' (??!!) my 13 year old with the wisdom of the VDC vs. the OB XT. Mostly, he's won over. (You know how 13 yr. olds are, when it comes to conceding their parents wisdom....'This car is really good, but you still should have bought the XT. By the way, can we go ***mph and can I show my friends how good the stereo is...?' 'Dad, put it in sportshift and really take off onto the highway. I want ***** to see how fast the car is.') The car is, indeed, sweet at high speeds: it's quite quiet and stable and remarkably quick, especially when accelerating from 60mph on up. All in all, I'm very happy with the car....
I asked the dealer about break-in for my new 2004 H6-3.0 Outback Wagon Automatic and was told that break-in isn't needed... I should just drive it normally. He did recommend an oil change at 1500 miles in addition to the scheduled oil change at 3000 miles (and that's what I plan to do).
The manual says my engine is designed to operate with 91 octane fuel (or higher) but 87 octane fuel may be used "if necessary". Premium unleaded gas is recommended "for optimum engine performance and drivability". Later on, the manual says "using gas with a lower octane rating can cause persistant and heavy knocking which can damage the engine."
Note that, around here, "premium" is 93 octane while mid-grade is 89 octane and regular is 87 octane. My dealer said I could run mostly on mid-grade while occasionally treating it to premium. So far (less that 750 miles) I've only used premium, but I may drop to mid-grade after awhile.
Tom, for that first 1000 miles you should also probably not use the cruise control. I'm not sure if I read that, or if the dealer told me, but changes speeds/gears frequently helps to seat all the valves, etc.
Also, I just did the first oil change at 2700, and I'll do the next one around 5100 or so. I am hoping I will get my coupons before the 7500 mark so I don't have to pay for that one :-)
Yan, the coupons are only for the 2005 models. I am pretty sure Subaru will send them out to buyers right away (I got mine in 3-4weeks after purchase). I did not specifically request it, but it also came with a free $25 for a test drive (I actually got two of those :-)
The coupon is good for covering ALL regular maintenance items, including oil changes, for up to the 3 yr/36 mo factory warranty.
Check out the previous posts for more info, starting at around "page" 135-136:
BTW: Just for confusion's sake: I am Karen "M" -- just a lowly Subaru owner. Our forum's moderator is Karen "S" -- she's way smarter and more important than me :-)
Yan, I actually only paid $299 for the hitch (invoice, I think, as it originally listed at $385 or so). The rest was tax and labor...they charged me for 1.8 hours, even though it took only an hour. They said it was a standard hitch installation fee
I couldn't find any markings at all on the hitch other than the weight restriction sticker. There may be a model number printed on top but I can't read it as it's too close to the bumper. I am pretty sure the box just said "Subaru", but I didn't pay that much attention. I am certain your subsequent info is correct, that it's a Valley product.
I just wrote in to Subaru requesting the coupons. I will let you know if that works or if I get the coupons in the mail anyways. When I asked my dealer they had no clue what I was talking about. They said the only maintance deal they knew of was related to leasing the vehicle. Not much help. Hopefully the deal is available to those of us that purchased in Maryland.
Thanks for the help. I went to the Subaru website and left them a message in "contact us" and they emailed back today saying that they would be happy to mail the coupon, but that it has to be validated by the selling dealer. I'm not sure what this means but hopefully it won't be a problem.
6 days- got to drive it in the rain on the way to work- very stable and secure on a fast sweeping onramp to the freeway (until I had to break because the cars in front of me were going a bit slower)
Thanks for all of the advice on breaking the car in. Karen, I'll lay of the cruise control- it's not fun to use it now anyway! ;-)
I got a mailing saying I could get a replacement coupon by calling it. I don't think I ever got the first coupon, but they said they'd send a replacement.
Thanks for the hint on the harness/plug thing. I opened the hood and fiddled with the connector... now the washer is working in the front but not the rear.
I'm not sure I did anything. I might be confused by the controls and my expectations... I had thought that pulling back on the level would cause it to squirt washer fluid (the manual calls this "mist") but maybe this only causes the wiper to swipe once with no squirting. The button on the end of the arm causes the front to squirt... I've fiddled every which way to get the rear to squirt but with no luck (yet). Perhaps I'll have to swing by the dealer's shop. (Boy do I feel dumb.)
Thanks for trying to find this extra hitch info for me. I'd still like to get some confirmation about whether Valley makes the hitch... so I fired off a note to Valley and hope they will get back in touch with me. In the interim, can you tell me if the cross-member of your hitch is visible below the rear bumper (without crawling under the car :-)... or do you only see the receiver tube? The cross-member is the bar that runs from one side of the frame to the other and its the bar that the receiver tube is attached to.
Well, I contacted Valley Industries and they said they don't offer any sort of trailer hitch for the 2004 Subaru Outback Wagon. However, they suggested that their "sister company" (Valley Automotive) might be the OEM for the Subaru trailer hitch and gave me their number: 248-588-6900.
and the contact info presented the same phone number. So I called this phone number and they said "we don't make the trailer hitch for Subaru anymore; its been 4-5 years since we made the trailer hitch for Subaru".
So that was enlightening... but still doesn't answer my question!
withe reguards to the wipers, I had the same experience. Read your post and should have replied earlier. Cringing as the wipers went on the dry dusty window without the spray. Looked for the fluid under the hood-was goning to be unhappy if the car was poorly set up. Finally pushed the button and figured that was how it was designed- non-intuitive but functional. If you lift the tailgate you will find a plug where I imagine the rear wash fluid is injected in the high end models. I believe the base leg/OB are not equipped but that is only a guess. Good luck finding a comfortable driving position in this otherwise very smart car.
I also called the number in post 2736 and requested the coupon. I mentioned that I was planning to buy the 2005 Subaru Legacy/ Outback. The operator asked me if I had received the $25 test drive offer and I said yes.
She took my contact information and said she would mail the coupon to me.
The rear washer works by twisting the end of the wiper stalk. Twist it counter-clockwise and hold it until the fluid comes out; release it to stop the fluid and wiper. You can also twist it clockwise. The first position will turn the rear wiper on. Twisting it further and holding will squirt the washer fluid. Turn it back to the center position to turn off the rear wiper. Note that the rear wiper is intermittent and not continuous.
FYI - Wiper/washer info is on page 3-26, 27, 28 in the '03 Legacy/Outback owner's manual. It's probably in the same general area of the '04 manual.
Can anyone offer info on the factory alarm on the new '05 Outback? Does it protect all openings including hatch and hood? Does it have auto-relock feature? Where is the blinking LED located? Does it "beep" to confirm arming & dis-arming?
Tom, that may have been the test drive coupon they were thinking has to be validated. There was nothing on the warranty coupon that needed validation from the dealer, as I recall. I hope I'm right, because I already sent mine in. Anyone else have one to look at to verify this?
I should say that I received BOTH coupons in the same mailing envelope. I found it odd that the test drive coupon was actually attached to the directions for the warranty coupon. I also received another test drive coupon in a separate mailing, but received it on the same day.
Yan, most of the hitch is visible from underneath. It is shaped sort of like a rounded "Y", and appear to be all one piece, welded together at the brace points. The mufflers are covering up the portion where the bolts are located.
The hatch IS wired into the system; the hood, no, I don't think so. This might be different on the upper end models, some of which come with the starter immobilizer.
There is an auto-lock feature that you can have enabled/disabled at the dealer. I don't recall the specific instructions being in the manual, but I could be wrong.
The LED is on the dash to the left of the steering wheel, in plain view of anyone peeking in the driver's door.
There are two separate buttons for arm and disarm. It beeps once for "arm" and twice for "disarm". Also, the hatch has its own button, if you just want to get something out of the back. The other doors remain locked, and the alarm goes into limbo until you shut the hatch and re-arm the car. Most all of this is explained int the manual.
(Beware: the buttons on this remote are very touchy! :-)
I have the base model wagon with the security system upgrade (that just means they added the shock sensor to the main system).
How about the auto-relock? ie. if you press the unlock button on the remote, but don't open any door or hatch, will the system re-lock and re-arm itself after a certain amount of time has lapsed?
Could you get ABS to kick in on dry pavement on the Outback? If so, then bigger brakes aren't going to do you any good in a single stop. The Legacy GT brakes would obviously tolerate a lot more heat before starting to fade but for most drivers, that's not going to be an issue.
Thanks... so that clinches it... *all* the hitches made for the Outback have a cross-member that is visible (without havin to actually crawl under the car to see it). Good to know.
I got mine in the mail over the weekend after requesting it through their website. They were very quick about it. I'm quite pleased. Hopefully you will all get yours soon.
Thanks in advance for all the great advice on this forum.
I just purchased a 2005 Outback XT Limited in Obsidian Black Pearl with Charcoal Perforated Leather interior from Herb Gordon Subaru in Silver Spring, MD (www.herbgordonsubaru.com). The MSRP was $32,874, the dealer's invoice was $30,371, and its "Invoice Price" (i.e., no-haggle) was $30,671, which I paid (less $9,475 for my 2000 Outback base wagon trade-in--it had 42700 miles). The dealer also offered a $100 discount for the first 25 new car buyers for July, and I happened to be the first. I was waiting for my IMBA VIP discount, which was due in August, but when I saw this XT at this price (with only 3 miles on it), I couldn't resist. I think this was a very good deal at this time. (And I also sent in the $25 Visa check card coupon for a test drive.)
I really like this car. It has so much more power than my 2000 Outback and the interior is so much nicer. (I test drove the 2005 VDC and the XT seems to blow it away at above 3000 rpm.) Below are some comments after driving 500+ miles:
Power: From a stop, the engine accelerates smoothly like the base 2.5 engine. The turbo kicks in around 3500 rpm, and really takes off. Turbo lag is hardly noticeable, although the turbo makes a gurgling(?) sound before it kicks in (this is my first turbo, so I may not be describing this correctly).
SPORTSHIFT: Much better than the 4 speed auto. The Sport mode comes in handy for downshifts and holding a lower gear. The steering wheel shifter controls are pretty convenient. It allows temporary downshifting, after which the transmission automatically upshifts after a few seconds. However, I would have preferred steering wheel audio controls instead (or in addition).
Suspension: Firm, with tolerable body lean, and the handling is generally precise. The stock Bridgestone Potenza RE92As may be holding the handling back. (The 2000 Outback had similar handling with the stock Firestone Wilderness, but I noticed improvement with Kumho Ecsta HP4s.) Also, the rear suspension seemed a little stiff--this may be a tire pressure issue.
Braking: The pedal is firm, yet the response is initially vague. Once the proper amount of force is applied to the pedal, the car stops solidly. I haven't had any braking issues, and overall I think there's ample stopping power.
Headlamps: Much improved. Very bright with a higher cutoff AND better frontal illumination. I can't believe how dim my 2000 Outback's lamps were.
Mileage: I'm averaging 23 mpg on 93 octane, and the trip/mileage computer is pretty accurate.
Interior: Very nice in charcoal (or black, really) leather. Red-illuminated gauges and controls are pretty slick. Seats are firm, yet more supportive than the 2000 Outback. The 8-way driver's seat finally lets me dial-in a comfortable position. And the front cupholders actually fit 2 bottles/cups securely.
Some issues:
Audio system: the CD track toggle switch is on the far right, which is cumbersome to reach. Also, the CD changer is a bit finicky--the disc must be at a certain angle to be loaded properly.
Glove compartment: I think someone posted earlier that his/her compartment door was misaligned. I noticed that too on mine. Not sure how to fix this yet.
That's it for now. My dealer didn't mention the free maintenance coupon, but I called the toll free number posted earlier and I'm supposed to receive it in the mail soon.
Congrats on the new OB. Thanks also for the comparison between the OB XT LTD and your 2000 OB, as that is what I have now and want to trade up to in Jan. Unfortunately, between your review and everyone else's, I'm not sure if I can wait until then:-). Was your 2000 auto or MT; this Sport shift seems to be impressing a lot of people.
Thanks, Mark. My 2000 Outback was an auto. The SPORTSHIFT is more interesting/convenient to drive than the 4 speed auto, but it's no manual. I didn't even bother to test drive a manual because I wanted an auto for this car (and didn't want to know what I'm missing with the manual).
Mark, Did you test drive one yet? We went to Flemington at 8:30 p.m. on the day of the unveiling party (or whatever it was called).
Didn't plan to drive one, but my salesguy came outside and gave us the keys and said "have fun". You couldn't wipe the smile off of my wife's face. She couldn't believe the power. Impressed with the turning radius as well. She test drove it for 20 minutes and I only got 5 (it was almost 9:00). Definitely less body roll than a stock FXT. Sportshift is a blast.
Karen: 23.4 mpg for a base auto is good considering the engine is still green. That should improve.
Mark: congrats, and 23 mpg on a GT auto, wow!
I'm surprised the 2.5i's brakes are bigger than the Outback's, but the point above it valid - if it has enough power to lock the brakes, bigger rotors will primarily only help in reducing brake fade.
I called 800-648-7792 and got the "gotta be on the mailing list" answer as well...they will check to see if I'm on the list. I did get the $25 test drive offer by email, so I must be on some list. Seems that, with the free flow of info on the web, that this is a promotion that could tick off as many people as it makes happy...another case of "haves" vs. "have nots". As I am a loyal Honda owner looking for a wagon vice a CRV, this is Subaru's chance to get me to jump ship...but the methodology of this coupon deal is not impressing me.
I didn't make it to the unveiling party because of a prior commitment. The last time I was at Flemington they only had the base Legacy in. I wanted to wait for either the Legacy GT LTD or XT LTD before testing it out. I figure to drive them nuts between testing a MT and the sport shift.
Agree that the primary advantage of bigger and vented rotors is to reduce brake fade, but I do wonder if the Outback has different calipers too. With significantly smaller rotors, the swept area might be less as well.
What would really be telling is a comparison between the GT and OBXT in terms of braking performance. After 5 repeated high-speed stops, the GT with its increased heat dissipation properties would most likely perform far better than the OBXT, however, I wonder if it will perform better during one 60-0mph stop?
It just irks me that Subaru endowed the OBXT with all the power cajones, but slighted it on the upgraded stopping bits. Whatever happened to a balanced package?
BTW, my wife really liked the OBXT, and she is a hardcore propeller badge slave. I would much prefer the GT (upscale WRX-giddy-up!), but she vetoed it based on its low-ride height. So, if I have to get the OBXT, I don't want to have to commute everyday knowing that although my vehicle is on par with a Boxster in acceleration, it brakes in the same performance sector as Full-size 4x4 pick-ups.
Example:
0-60 MPH IN 5.9 SECONDS-------FASTER THAN PORSCHE BOXSTER PORSCHE CAYENNE BMW X5
70-0 MPH IN 204ft-------------SHORTER THAN CHEVY SILVERADO 4X4 FORD F-150 4X4 HUMMER H2
Yes, I am trying to shame SOA into upgrading the OBXTs brakes.
My prior car was a Honda Accord, although I had a used Subaru a long time ago. I got my coupon by requesting it through the subaru website and asking for Patti.
Comments
The car's fuel economy is rated 22 city/28 highway.
I am averaging 23.4 MPG in mostly-city driving so far.
I did get 26.2 on a mostly-highway trip (roughly 90 miles round trip across town, very light traffic, mostly freeway, 65+ MPH).
I'm taking it in for its first oil change this week. Any advice? (Oh, no...it's THAT can of worms again!)
Thx!
-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html
I've got just under 750 miles on my H6-3.0 Outback (2004) 35th Anniversary.
I picked it up new with a full tank and 160 miles (since they had to drive it
here from out of state)... next fill-up was 14 gallons (premium) at 450 miles...
and the next (latest) fill-up was 10.2 gallons (premium) at 712 miles. So I
figure I was getting 20.7 MPG on that first tank (mostly city driving) and
25.7 MPG on that second tank (mostly highway driving)... this is right
in line with the EPA estimates (21/26) for this vehicle.
The manual doesn't call for the first oil change until 3000 miles but, in
addition to that, I also plan to do an oil change at about 1500 miles.
Friday evening I noticed that my windshield squirters are not working,
front or rear. The fluid reservoir is filled and I made numerous attempts
(thinking the lines were empty) so I think it must be the pump... hopefully
just an electrical connection or a fuse thing. That was the first time I tried
to use the squirters. I'll contact a dealer Tuesday... hope they don't try
to charge me anything to fix it!
Yan
Ouch! $477 seems like a lot for a hitch... although it seems exactly
what dealers typically want to charge for this option. When I was
shopping, I had several dealers quite me around $485 but one
said I could get it done by a 3rd party for $300. When I finally
bought the car, I told the dealer I could get it for $300 (based
on what I'd heard elsewhere) but would go slightly over that
for him to do it just to save me the hassle... he told me that
the part cost $294 plus 3 hours labor to install - so he would
give it to me for $400 (plus tax). I think I've posted the rest
of my story and I STILL don't have a hitch (but my money is
coming back in the mail... so they tell me).
Anyway, the few extra dollars you may have spent will be forgotten
soon enough and you are already enjoying your hitch while I'm
still figuring out what one to get, who I should have install it, etc.
Since you got an OEM hitch, I would appreciate it if you could figure
out who made it. Could it be printed somewhere? Would your dealer
know? DaveM reports that they used to be made by Valley... I have
no clue who they are (but could do some web research to find out).
Cheers,
Yan
Could you (or anyone) fill me in on this service coupon thing? Is this only
for 2005 models or are they for 2004 models too?
My dealer has never mentioned them to me and nothing has shown up in
the mail yet (2 weeks ownership today). Only on this forum have I seen
anything about service coupons.
What do the coupons provide (pay for)? Are they for things
like "free" service or things like "15% off" or what?
I read that I can request these somewhere... where? Should I go ahead
and request them, or should I wait and see what arrives in the mail?
Thanks,
Yan
DaveM
Thanks for the link.
They don't seem to make a hitch for the 2004 Outback... only for the 2004 Impreza and the 2004 Forester... I haven't checked other model years. Here's the link for installation instructions on the 2004 Forester...
http://www.valleyorders.com/ISheets/Instructions.html?INSTRDOC=66- 860.pdf
Yan
2004 Subaru All Wheel Drive Outback H6 35th Anniversary Wagon 5 Door
These 4 hitches are made by (1) Dalan, (2) Hidden Hitch, (3) Curt, and (4) Draw-Tite.
All are Class II hitches and all (including Hidden Hitch) say that the cross-member of
the hitch is EXPOSED beneath the vehicle bumper.
The instructions for the Dalan says you need to drill holes and it only mentions model years 1990 through 2001 (and the hitch-web blurb says "while supplies last") so I'm
disinclined to choose this brand.
The other three brands all say that they use existing holes so that no drilling is required. They say they range in weight from 35 pounds (Curt) to 45 pounds (Hidden Hitch)... the
instructions for the Draw-Tite says it weighs about 34.5 pounds. I wonder why the Hidden Hitch seems to weigh 10 pounds more? Is this a good thing or just more to lug around?
Hmmmm...
I got this reply from SubaruAccessories.com which says the OEM hitch *is* made by Valley!
Maybe I should call Valley to confirm this since it sounds contrary to their web site.
Yan
========
THEY ARE FACTORY SUBARU TRAILER HITCHS THAT INCLUDES THE TAIL LAMP
WIRING/CONVERTER THAT PLUGS INTO THE PREWIRED AREA OF YOUR VEHICLE.THEY ARE
MANUFACTURED FOR SUBARU BY VALLEY HITCH CORP.
THANK YOU
PAUL SCHUBLIN
MON-FRI 8AM-5PM PACIFIC TIME ZONE
-----Original Message-----
From: New England Guy
Sent: Friday, July 02, 2004 1:27 PM
To: Sales@SubaruAccessories.com
Subject: Trailer Hitch?
Are the trailer hitches you sell (for the 2004 Outback Wagon) genuine subaru
products? Who makes them?
Thanks
When I bought my 2000 Outback, the windshield squirters weren't working. I popped open the hood, and found that the electrical harness was not plugged into the receptacle on the pump. So, I just snapped it in and was in business.
Note that all the hitch crossmembers are exposed, but the Hidden Hitch will be the furthest forward so it is less likely to be noticed. It should be even with the back edge of the muffler. Draw-Tite will be a couple inches aft, in back of the muffler (over the tailpipe).
CRaig
You ask an interesting question about reliability...if readers permit me to make a long post (another one! Sorry! Hope they are interesting reading), I might be able to put it into perspective (without actually answering your question?!)
Firstly - the 2.5 turbo has been around for a while in the Forester, so Subaru should have plenty of experience with keeping this engine reliable. I drove the Forester XT before buying the OB 3.0R (no OBXT available in Australia), and chose the Outback principally because it was a newer, better design. But also because I preferred the smooth delivery instead of the uneven power delivery of the turbo. One other point worried me with a manual XT - you had to be careful with your gear changes because the awd system felt like it put some stress on the drivetrain when lifting the clutch. I know WRXs had a history of burning through clutches when driven hard, whereas in the auto Outback it didn't feel like a problem (and I dislike auto trannies).
As can be seen from JD Power surveys, the Japanese generally build the most reliable cars on the planet, and Subaru are generally up the top of the list when it comes to customer satisfaction. Very few posts to the Subaru forums complain of reliability issues. Historically, the Japanese have always built reliable cars, but the engines have not been built to last as long as say Volvo/Mercedes Benz (whose engines were built to turn at much lower rpms), partly because in Japan vehicle fitness laws dictate selling your car after 4 years - the costs of keeping it registered are more than selling and buying a new car. Also keeps the local industry ticking along. Hence there have been stories of local Japanese never servicing their cars in that time - never even changing the oil! However the cars still seem to cope with this abuse and last another 10 years. It is not for nothing that all the TV coverage of Middle East shows locals in 20-year old clapped out Toyota Hi-Luxes. In the UK, a TV Program called Top Gear (is it on cable in the US? You have to watch it!) tried to "kill" a Hi-Lux. They dumped it in the ocean for 4 hours, then dropped a caravan on it and smashed it with a wrecking ball. Still started. So they set fire to it (it still started). The next show, they strapped it on top of a 30 storey building that was being demolished. After the dust had cleared they got a crane to lift it out of the wreckage. Yep, you guessed it, it still started (and drove).
In summary, there may be some small variations in reliability, and weak points, but generally, these cars are as reliable as can be.
Hope I am still spouting the same message in 2 years with the Outback...
- Aussie Outback
Any advice anyone could offer would greatly be appreciated. Options, things to look for or consider, etc?
The new 05 models are pretty hot right now. When things settle down, you should be able to negotiate the price to within a few hundred dollars of invoice at any reasonable dealership.
There are a LOT of options for the Outback -- so you can really tailor the car to your use. Also, many of the options are a DIY install -- you can order the parts at wholesale and put them in yourself.
Not much else to say -- just look for the color and options you want, and go from there!
Good luck,
Craig
I was wondering if anyone knew why the break in period is so long for this car. Is it the same with other Subarus? I don't remember the break in period for my last legacy. I know some manufacturers don't even have a recommended break in period any more. Anyway, just curious.
Also, my salesperson said the car would run fine on mid grade gas instead of premium. I kind of doubt this but was wondering if anyone had any experience with their WRXs or FXTs.
Five days and I still love this car. Even more because it has been so easy to live with on a day to day basis. It's quiet and seems very solidly built, and I can actually drive around town without ever going above 2000 rpms (although I have to shift a lot!) But the car handles turns very well and can go quite fast when needed (or wanted) even staying below 4000 rpms. I'm still looking for manufacturing defects- I'll comment on them when/if I find them.
tom
Congrats on your new purchase. I think the break-in period for the Legacy is 1000 miles and keep the revs below 4000RPM unless it's an emergency. I don't think this is any longer than other makes.
Why would you want to skimp on fuel on a performance engine by going to mid-grade? The cost difference on an annual basis is fairly minor considering the other maintenance costs you would normally incur. Have you tried doing the math yourself?
Lastly, it's equally important to keep the engine from lugging during the break-in period. Driving around 2000RPM is fine if it's a low-load condition, but be careful not to try going WOT uphill on a warm day.
Ken
I agree about the gas, but it puzzled me that the salesperson said the car would run fine on mid grade, and I was curous if anyone else has done this, or was my salesperson totally out to lunch.
About the engine running at 2000 rpm, I was just commenting on the fact that it's quite driveable at this rpm and not lugging, which I consider quite low for a 4 cylinder engine. I continue to be impressed by this car. Of course, it's much more fun when you get the revs up! (I must confess I have run it beyond 4000 once or twice, just to see what it's like)
I'm trying to find excuses to drive the car so I can reach 1000 miles! Otherwise it will take a month!
tom
I asked the dealer about break-in for my new 2004 H6-3.0 Outback Wagon Automatic and was told that break-in isn't needed... I should just drive it normally. He did recommend an oil change at 1500 miles in addition to the scheduled oil change at 3000 miles (and that's what I plan to do).
The manual says my engine is designed to operate with 91 octane fuel (or higher) but 87 octane fuel may be used "if necessary". Premium unleaded gas is recommended "for optimum engine performance and drivability". Later on, the manual says "using gas with a lower octane rating can cause persistant and heavy knocking which can damage the engine."
Note that, around here, "premium" is 93 octane while mid-grade is 89 octane and regular is 87 octane. My dealer said I could run mostly on mid-grade while occasionally treating it to premium. So far (less that 750 miles) I've only used premium, but I may drop to mid-grade after awhile.
Yan
Also, I just did the first oil change at 2700, and I'll do the next one around 5100 or so. I am hoping I will get my coupons before the 7500 mark so I don't have to pay for that one :-)
-KarenM-
The coupon is good for covering ALL regular maintenance items, including oil changes, for up to the 3 yr/36 mo factory warranty.
Check out the previous posts for more info, starting at around "page" 135-136:
rsq798 Jul 2, 2004 9:52pm!keywords=allin:msgtext%20limit:.ef16f98%20coupon
BTW: Just for confusion's sake: I am Karen "M" -- just a lowly Subaru owner. Our forum's moderator is Karen "S" -- she's way smarter and more important than me :-)
I couldn't find any markings at all on the hitch other than the weight restriction sticker. There may be a model number printed on top but I can't read it as it's too close to the bumper. I am pretty sure the box just said "Subaru", but I didn't pay that much attention. I am certain your subsequent info is correct, that it's a Valley product.
-KarenM-
6 days- got to drive it in the rain on the way to work- very stable and secure on a fast sweeping onramp to the freeway (until I had to break because the cars in front of me were going a bit slower)
Thanks for all of the advice on breaking the car in. Karen, I'll lay of the cruise control- it's not fun to use it now anyway! ;-)
tom
800-648-7792
I got a mailing saying I could get a replacement coupon by calling it. I don't think I ever got the first coupon, but they said they'd send a replacement.
Thanks for the info. I guess I don't get the coupons with my 2004 model :-(
I suppose I'll just have to be contented with the $2500 discount. :-)
Yan
and fiddled with the connector... now the washer is working in
the front but not the rear.
I'm not sure I did anything. I might be confused by the controls and
my expectations... I had thought that pulling back on the level would
cause it to squirt washer fluid (the manual calls this "mist") but maybe
this only causes the wiper to swipe once with no squirting. The button
on the end of the arm causes the front to squirt... I've fiddled every which
way to get the rear to squirt but with no luck (yet). Perhaps I'll have to
swing by the dealer's shop. (Boy do I feel dumb.)
Thanks for trying to find this extra hitch info for me. I'd still like to get some confirmation
about whether Valley makes the hitch... so I fired off a note to Valley and hope they will get back in touch with me. In the interim, can you tell me if the cross-member of your hitch is visible below the rear bumper (without crawling under the car :-)... or do you only see the receiver tube? The cross-member is the bar that runs from one side of the frame to the other and its the bar that the receiver tube is attached to.
Yan
and gave me their number: 248-588-6900.
I located the web site for Valley Autmotive at
http://www.valleyoem.com/
and the contact info presented the same phone number. So I called this phone number and they said "we don't make the trailer hitch for Subaru anymore; its been 4-5 years since we made the trailer hitch for Subaru".
So that was enlightening... but still doesn't answer my question!
Yan
If you lift the tailgate you will find a plug where I imagine the rear wash fluid is injected in the high end models. I believe the base leg/OB are not equipped but that is only a guess. Good luck finding a comfortable driving position in this otherwise very smart car.
She took my contact information and said she would mail the coupon to me.
Urmez
So I sarted looking through the brochures and I was amazed to find the following information:
Car model, front brakes, rear brakes
Legacy 2.5i, 274x24mm, 270x10mm
Legacy 2.5GT, 312x30mm, 287x18mm (ventilated on the back!)
Outback (all), 261x24mm, 270x10mm
So the heavier and more powerful Outback has SMALLER brakes up front then the Legacy 2.5i, and MUCH SMALLER brakes then the Legacy 2.5GT.
That could explain the lack of braking power on the Outback. Makes no sense to me why they wouldn't put the top brakes on the Outback...
The rear washer works by twisting the end of the wiper stalk. Twist it counter-clockwise and hold it until the fluid comes out; release it to stop the fluid and wiper. You can also twist it clockwise. The first position will turn the rear wiper on. Twisting it further and holding will squirt the washer fluid. Turn it back to the center position to turn off the rear wiper. Note that the rear wiper is intermittent and not continuous.
FYI - Wiper/washer info is on page 3-26, 27, 28 in the '03 Legacy/Outback owner's manual. It's probably in the same general area of the '04 manual.
DaveM
Does it have auto-relock feature? Where is the blinking LED located? Does it "beep" to confirm arming & dis-arming?
Thanks.
I should say that I received BOTH coupons in the same mailing envelope. I found it odd that the test drive coupon was actually attached to the directions for the warranty coupon. I also received another test drive coupon in a separate mailing, but received it on the same day.
-KarenM-
Hope that helps.
-KarenM-
There is an auto-lock feature that you can have enabled/disabled at the dealer. I don't recall the specific instructions being in the manual, but I could be wrong.
The LED is on the dash to the left of the steering wheel, in plain view of anyone peeking in the driver's door.
There are two separate buttons for arm and disarm. It beeps once for "arm" and twice for "disarm". Also, the hatch has its own button, if you just want to get something out of the back. The other doors remain locked, and the alarm goes into limbo until you shut the hatch and re-arm the car. Most all of this is explained int the manual.
(Beware: the buttons on this remote are very touchy! :-)
I have the base model wagon with the security system upgrade (that just means they added the shock sensor to the main system).
-KarenM-
Thanks... so that clinches it... *all* the hitches made for the Outback have a cross-member that is visible (without havin to actually crawl under the car to see it). Good to know.
Yan
I just purchased a 2005 Outback XT Limited in Obsidian Black Pearl with Charcoal Perforated Leather interior from Herb Gordon Subaru in Silver Spring, MD (www.herbgordonsubaru.com). The MSRP was $32,874, the dealer's invoice was $30,371, and its "Invoice Price" (i.e., no-haggle) was $30,671, which I paid (less $9,475 for my 2000 Outback base wagon trade-in--it had 42700 miles). The dealer also offered a $100 discount for the first 25 new car buyers for July, and I happened to be the first. I was waiting for my IMBA VIP discount, which was due in August, but when I saw this XT at this price (with only 3 miles on it), I couldn't resist. I think this was a very good deal at this time. (And I also sent in the $25 Visa check card coupon for a test drive.)
I really like this car. It has so much more power than my 2000 Outback and the interior is so much nicer. (I test drove the 2005 VDC and the XT seems to blow it away at above 3000 rpm.) Below are some comments after driving 500+ miles:
Power: From a stop, the engine accelerates smoothly like the base 2.5 engine. The turbo kicks in around 3500 rpm, and really takes off. Turbo lag is hardly noticeable, although the turbo makes a gurgling(?) sound before it kicks in (this is my first turbo, so I may not be describing this correctly).
SPORTSHIFT: Much better than the 4 speed auto. The Sport mode comes in handy for downshifts and holding a lower gear. The steering wheel shifter controls are pretty convenient. It allows temporary downshifting, after which the transmission automatically upshifts after a few seconds. However, I would have preferred steering wheel audio controls instead (or in addition).
Suspension: Firm, with tolerable body lean, and the handling is generally precise. The stock Bridgestone Potenza RE92As may be holding the handling back. (The 2000 Outback had similar handling with the stock Firestone Wilderness, but I noticed improvement with Kumho Ecsta HP4s.) Also, the rear suspension seemed a little stiff--this may be a tire pressure issue.
Braking: The pedal is firm, yet the response is initially vague. Once the proper amount of force is applied to the pedal, the car stops solidly. I haven't had any braking issues, and overall I think there's ample stopping power.
Headlamps: Much improved. Very bright with a higher cutoff AND better frontal illumination. I can't believe how dim my 2000 Outback's lamps were.
Mileage: I'm averaging 23 mpg on 93 octane, and the trip/mileage computer is pretty accurate.
Interior: Very nice in charcoal (or black, really) leather. Red-illuminated gauges and controls are pretty slick. Seats are firm, yet more supportive than the 2000 Outback. The 8-way driver's seat finally lets me dial-in a comfortable position. And the front cupholders actually fit 2 bottles/cups securely.
Some issues:
Audio system: the CD track toggle switch is on the far right, which is cumbersome to reach. Also, the CD changer is a bit finicky--the disc must be at a certain angle to be loaded properly.
Glove compartment: I think someone posted earlier that his/her compartment door was misaligned. I noticed that too on mine. Not sure how to fix this yet.
That's it for now. My dealer didn't mention the free maintenance coupon, but I called the toll free number posted earlier and I'm supposed to receive it in the mail soon.
Thanks for reading.
Mark
Congrats on the new OB. Thanks also for the comparison between the OB XT LTD and your 2000 OB, as that is what I have now and want to trade up to in Jan. Unfortunately, between your review and everyone else's, I'm not sure if I can wait until then:-). Was your 2000 auto or MT; this Sport shift seems to be impressing a lot of people.
Mark
Good luck with your future purchase!
Mark
Did you test drive one yet? We went to Flemington at 8:30 p.m. on the day of the unveiling party (or whatever it was called).
Didn't plan to drive one, but my salesguy came outside and gave us the keys and said "have fun". You couldn't wipe the smile off of my wife's face. She couldn't believe the power. Impressed with the turning radius as well. She test drove it for 20 minutes and I only got 5 (it was almost 9:00). Definitely less body roll than a stock FXT. Sportshift is a blast.
-Dennis
Mark: congrats, and 23 mpg on a GT auto, wow!
I'm surprised the 2.5i's brakes are bigger than the Outback's, but the point above it valid - if it has enough power to lock the brakes, bigger rotors will primarily only help in reducing brake fade.
-juice
I didn't make it to the unveiling party because of a prior commitment. The last time I was at Flemington they only had the base Legacy in. I wanted to wait for either the Legacy GT LTD or XT LTD before testing it out. I figure to drive them nuts between testing a MT and the sport shift.
Mark
What would really be telling is a comparison between the GT and OBXT in terms of braking performance. After 5 repeated high-speed stops, the GT with its increased heat dissipation properties would most likely perform far better than the OBXT, however, I wonder if it will perform better during one 60-0mph stop?
It just irks me that Subaru endowed the OBXT with all the power cajones, but slighted it on the upgraded stopping bits. Whatever happened to a balanced package?
BTW, my wife really liked the OBXT, and she is a hardcore propeller badge slave. I would much prefer the GT (upscale WRX-giddy-up!), but she vetoed it based on its low-ride height. So, if I have to get the OBXT, I don't want to have to commute everyday knowing that although my vehicle is on par with a Boxster in acceleration, it brakes in the same performance sector as Full-size 4x4 pick-ups.
Example:
0-60 MPH IN 5.9 SECONDS-------FASTER THAN
PORSCHE BOXSTER
PORSCHE CAYENNE
BMW X5
70-0 MPH IN 204ft-------------SHORTER THAN
CHEVY SILVERADO 4X4
FORD F-150 4X4
HUMMER H2
Yes, I am trying to shame SOA into upgrading the OBXTs brakes.