By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
I think AWD *with* stability control is best. AWD by itself is better for handling, will proactively keep you out of trouble, and has much higher limits than FWD. But you can still get in trouble with AWD, and stability control would help in those situations.
The way I look at it, FWD with stability control is going to be fine for my wife -- she rarely, if ever, intentionally or accidentally pushes a car into a non-neutral stance (which would be understeer in the case of the TSX). If she happens to get in trouble, the stability control ought to reign it in.
Personally, I love that I can take my WRX from understeer to neutral to oversteer with the throttle. One of the many traits I love about AWD. I'm probably always going to want an AWD car.
Craig
Craig
Not sure of pricing you are looking at... Pulled this from carpoint.com. 2.5GT Limited Sedan.
5EAT
Electrochromatic Mirror
Alarm
Subwoofer
Including Destination: $28,218
Add on your $400
Total Invoice + $$$ = $28,618
-mike
-mike
Did you guys get the NAV too? If so, that NAV system is awsome. The TSX is a good are. Might as well get what you wife wants anyhow. In the long run she'll be happier and next car you get, you can get exactly what you want!
TSX has a cool look, better proportions than the TL.
BTW, at that price, I do not believe you guys bought one with a Nav. The TSX is a very good deal at that price. It just is which way you want to go, performance or luxury name and features.
Car & Driver Recent Road Tests
Braking 70-0 mph:
205 ft Dodge Durango 4WD Limited
** 204 ft 2005 Subaru Outback 2.5XT Limited **
196 ft Nissan Pathfinder Armada LE
193 ft Nissan Titan 5.6SE Crew Cab
186 ft 2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser
185 ft Pontiac GTO
185 ft 2004 Acura TSX
184 ft Toyota Prius
184 ft Subaru Forester 2.5XT
182 ft 2004 Chrysler Pacifica AWD
180 ft 2004 Toyota Sienna LE
176 ft Cadillac SRX V-8
174 ft Audi S4 Quattro Cabriolet
168 ft Volvo S60R AWD
157 ft BMW X3 3.0i
145 ft Porsche Carrera GT
Motor Week Recent Road Tests
Braking 0-60 mph:
*** 155 feet 2005 Subaru Outback XT ***
150 feet Ford F-150
142 feet Toyota Prius
137 feet Nissan Pathfinder Armada
136 feet Forester 2.5 XT
135 feet Toyota Sienna
134 feet GMC Envoy XUV
133 feet 2003 Honda Accord
133 feet Dodge Durango
133 feet Subaru Baja Turbo
126 feet Acura TSX
125 feet Chrysler Pacifica
124 feet Infiniti G35x
124 feet Porsche 911 Carrera 4S
120 feet BMW X3
115 feet Acura TL
Poor braking and the lack of VDC sure makes the Outback XT less appealing. Are you listening Subaru? If so, how about adding the GT's bigger brakes and VDC to the XT (or at least make them add-on options)?
Thanks
Jay
Tony T
Pete
-Dennis
Agreed, these Outback XT car-stopper test results are a show stopper. I am surprised.
Has anyone seen a credible braking distance test for the 2005 Legacy GT?
Is there a good reason to expect more than a loaded-vehicle-weight-ratio difference in stopping distance the between Legacy GT and the Outback XT? Is there an practical way to improve performance (e.g. grippier pads)?
-Zor
Like mentioned a few posts above, The ignition type hesitation (higher frequency than turbo related) was a problem my 03 wrx had around 2500 to 2750 rpm. Exact symptoms you mention. I noticed it most on the wrx in stop and go traffic in 1st and 2nd. Ground wires cured the problem. I was quite skeptical but since it cost me nothing I tried it and it worked.
Reflash got rid of the rocking (sometimes more severe than other times) at idle.
Don
Bob
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Anybody else try a grounding kit? I see the Lineage kits for $80 online.
Please excuse my ignorance - what is a grounding kit ? why should it resolve the problem ?
Thanks
Pete
More importantly, it was her choice and she won't give you guilt trips every time she has to make a (slightly higher) car payment.
Yes, I remember the V6 Accord had an impressive 0-60 number, but the braking and handling numbers were poor. In that same issue, it was quicker than the near-luxury sedans in a comparo, yet the braking and handling was at the bottom of the pack.
YMMV, other reviews had different results. Sample variance, perhaps. I don't think the Accord or the Outback XT have unusually poor braking.
-juice
Many people want the most value for performance, style, quality and cool factor (upscale car).
A dealer in S. Calif quoted my $500 over invoice for the GT Wagon and the LL Bean.
--Sal
newcartestdrive.com: “Brakes in the various models are up to their powerplants' potential, with the top-of-the-line GT Limited well deserving of its high-performance componentry. The brakes are easy to modulate. Winding down a mountain road in Southern California, we found the brakes, suspension and engine in the GT wagon easy to coordinate, allowing for smooth driving that didn't upset our passengers.”
edmunds.com: “Engineers also installed a new brake booster to give the pedal a firmer, more progressive feel.“
caranddriver.com: “When they found that the previous brake booster was expanding under pressure, Subaru’s engineers used tie rods (like those holding a kettledrum together) to stop it. The result is a more predictable brake-pedal feel....BRAKING: 70–0 mph @ impending lockup: 204 ft”
automotive.com: “It'll gobble up straight stretches of pavement at high rates of speed, then endure hard braking before carving around curves at speeds well above posted advisory limits, with easily anticipated understeer when pushed.”
canadiandriver.com: “The engines, chassis, brakes, steering - everything about the Legacy elicited approving murmurs from the globe's major journalists...Legacy's steering and brakes responded well to the brutal treatment...the brakes finally have the firm, positive feel we've been asking for years of Subaru.”
canadiandriver.com: “What's neat is that it's an equally satisfying car to drive on a winding road, thanks to its low centre of gravity, responsive steering, multilink rear suspension, and significantly improved braking system.”What's neat is that it's an equally satisfying car to drive on a winding road, thanks to its low centre of gravity, responsive steering, multilink rear suspension, and significantly improved braking system.”
consumerguide.com: “Brakes feel strong on all [models]”
subdriven.com: “Brake feel was improved drastically as well, providing more feedback and response.”
thestar.com (Toronto Star): “better turning, better braking and better performance all around compared to the old Legacy, which was no laggard in the driving fun stakes to begin with.”
wheels.ca: “the brakes finally have the firm, positive feel we've been asking for years of Subaru.”
jsonline.com: “They feature improvements ranging from a firmer brake pedal feel to stiffer mounting for the steering mechanism and such weight-saving devices as an aluminum hood and tailgate for the wagon.“
So with 11 good reviews and 2 bad I don't think it's fair to conclude that the Outback XT "stops much slower". If anything the 2 reviews you refer to are atypical.
Any how, that doesn't relate to the GT at all, with bigger brake rotors, different tire size and type, and less weight.
-juice
james
-juice
Congrats on your wife's new TSX. That's one very competitively priced and equipped model. I don't know why I haven't seen more on the roads around here.
I agree with your statement regarding stability control. I think Subaru should and will add some kind of ESP to their vehicles in the near future. They don't have to make it as integrated as VDC, but at the very minimum, offer a brake-only stability control program. That way, they still can market a flagship VDC model but offer the stability control most people are starting to expect from cars at this price range.
It'll be interesting when you get your GT (am I being a little presumptuous?) and you can do back-to-back comparisons with the wife's TSX.
Ken
My dealer originally estimated the week of 7/12. Last week he gets an invoice with my VIN on it and was thinking it could show up any day. The truck for this week came and left, but no silver wagon.
Come on big trailer truck with my GT Ltd Wagon!
Ken
With the OBXT, the only mods I planned were upgraded tires (Diamaris or Pilot A/S) and possibly an exhaust that will let me shift audibly. If more tests confirm the OBXT's abysmal braking, I personally could not drive it w/o upgrading the whole system-which brings on a heap of other issues (warranty, wheel fitment etc.).
Even my wife's 4600lbs GX470 with 70-series "S" rated truck tires obliterates the OBXT (70-0 in 185 feet). Yes it does have 4pot brakes in front and 13" rotors all around-which is exactly my point. I'm sure it won't be long before Suby dealers are offering a GT brake upgrade.
If you think about it, a lot of the hardware is probably carry over, and the new car is lighter. To me it's just hard to explain.
It would be like throwing on a dual exhaust and making a car slower.
-juice
Keep in mind the press fleet absorbs some serious abuse. The XT is the type of car they'd drive hard, to try out that new turbo. I'd suspect CR's fleet takes less abuse because their use is more typical of your average consumer.
I'm more skeptical, I guess. How can you explain a much longer distance with a lighter car?
So let's book mark this issue as a concern and wait to get more input, CR's would be nice for instance.
-juice
C&D's 0-60 for the original S2000 was 6.8 in a preview, then their first full road test reported 5.8 seconds. That's night and day different. No way does Honda have that much production variance from model to model.
I'd love to see the GT or XT in a direct comparison test, measure the braking on the same day/same driver/same circumstances.
Wouldn't that be more useful? I think so.
-juice
Do you have any experience with the Diamaris? I'm thinking of upgrading my FXT to 17's, and was considering a 225/55/17 Diamaris, ContiContact UHP or Yoko AVS S/T. I drive on the beach, so I want to keep some soft-roadability.
225/55/17 is the same size that is on the OBXT to keep this on-topic. ;-)
-Dennis
Mike, re: the pricing, also add a few hypothetical $K to the GT for the cost of stability control, HID, and the other features on the TSX. Then you can compare them with the same hypothetical content level and see what price "premium" the GT demands. That can then be dissected and justified by AWD, handling etc... When I did that the GT was starting to get at least $5K up on the TSX, maybe mopre depending on how much you think stability control and HIDs are worth (both cost $500-1500 each on other vehicles in this class).
So, I keep feeling like the TSX is chock full of value, but that won't stop me from lusting after a new Subaru wagon!
Craig
I do have to say, the fit/finish, thoughtful design, and little touches in the TSX are quite impressive. Many of these features would be welcome in my future Subarus. Maybe I'll compile a list at some point. First I need to figure out how to work all the controls on the TSX. It's like peeling an onion -- many layers of new features and little touches only become apparent when you look deeper into the car. For instance, many nice features only became evident when I drove the car in the dark last night.
Craig
<grin>
And I feel the same way about my daughter's CRV. It wouldn't be my first choice, but that's not what's important. She got a very good car. She loves it. What more can you ask? I would have felt terrible if I forced her into a Subaru, and she didn't like it, or was just lukewarm about it.
Bob
More importantly, it was her choice and she won't give you guilt trips every time she has to make a (slightly higher) car payment.
You hit the nail on the head. My wife was starting to complain about the Forester. Actually, she lasted 2 years with the Forester (complaining only for the last year) which is not bad. Even though she picked the Forester, I think I probably pushed her in that direction, and I will not ever do that again. We both agree that the Forester is a great car, but she did not really bond with it like I did. After hearing the Car Talk guys say how happiness was more important than sticking with a car you didn't like, her mind was made up! I can only be thankful she settled on the TSX, which I would probably consider myself (with 6-spd manual of course). For a while though, during the GT test drive, I thought she would actually pick the Legacy. the power and 5EAT had us both saying wow....
We ended up selling the Forester to one of her coworkers who has been admiring the car since she bought it. Apparently the guy even used to go out and look at it in parking lot at work. So I'm happy the car is going to a good owner. They got a good deal, and we came out even on the car. Not bad at all, only 2 years into a 5 year loan.
Oh yeah -- Forester payments were $461 per month, the TSX is $456 per month. So I can't complain about that too much.
Craig
I think it will be impressive when a Legacy GT wagon can outgun the smaller TSX. But I will have to keep that to myself!! (it would only reinforce the Subaru-dork-husband aspect of our marriage).
I am thinking I will wait at least another year to upgrade from my 02 wagon. I'm going to put my WRX up for sale right away and see how that goes first. I am excited about the idea of the GT wagon (or OB XT) replacing both my WRX and Outback.
Craig
Each time I try I get this message:
"System Error
We're sorry, but our site is currently experiencing technical difficulties and the feature that you have requested is not available. Please try your request again later."
It's been doing this for at least a week now. At least it's not locking up my computer like it did the first few times I tried.
Hosts - Any reason that the 2005 model year is available in the drop down menu but the system can't recognize it?
Thanks!
-Ian
We did not get the nav, I couldn't see the value in the extra $2K. My wife didn't want it either, so no decision there!
I like the look of the TSX too, it's got the TL angles but in a more compact body (the TL looks stretched to me in certain views).
I do *not* like the rear bumper on the TSX -- visually it's OK, but even a minor rear-end collision will cost big $$.
Craig
NAV costs $2 grand up front, but don't forget to add $175 for each updated DVD from Honda. I hear they come out with a new one every 2 years or so, so if you own cars as long as I do you'd get at least 2 new DVDs, an extra $350.
I think I'll stick with maps.
-juice
Oh juice, you're just so "old-fashioned!"
Bob
Bob
I've only seen them as OE on X5's, and everyone seems to like them with the exception of fast wear. Which I think is a given on a 2.5 ton truck riding on "W" rated ultra-high performance tires.
There seems to be relatively slim pickings in 225/55-17's with at least a "V" rating. My first choice would be Pirelli Nero M/S or Toyo 4's, but they both do not have that size available as yet.
How about you buy the Diamaris' and be the first on the Suby block?
Pete
Charlie
SC
Thanks,