Subaru Legacy/Outback 2005+

jchagtdi

I have seen 2 different commercials on 3 different cable networks (HGTV, Weather Channel, Bravo) advertising lease deals on the new Lagacy. The sedan has a $299 lease and the wagon $319. Both are 36 months, IIRC. Both are offered with the free scheduled maintenance. I find it funny that they say "no security deposit" but in the small print disclose that the lease payment is based on $3700 cash at signing

legacy191

Craig,

first of all congrats on the TSX. We looked at the TSX and the TL very hard, but where we live AWD will win out every time over front drive. She sould be very happy with the TSX !!!

Tony T.

legacy191

Seen the same TV ad. Called the dealer in MPLS and they told me that they couldn't do that pricing until 07/02/2004. and the small print is correct. $3700 down at sighing.

Tony T

bluesubie

I was kind of shying away with it after speaking with Michelin about it. The rep told me that he had heard of two people being stuck in the sand with it. Don't know how true that is or what the conditions were, but the Conti Contact UHP (not the Extreme) looks like it might be able to handle soft-roading better.

Since you're mentioning the Extreme and the Mich. PS A/S, I thought I would just note that the Diamaris is a summer tire. The Contact UHP is as well.

As soon as I sell my Prodrive wheels from my WRX and figure out which wheel I'm getting, I'll make my tire decision and report back. :-) I'm inquiring about getting some UK Forester OEM 17's. SoA is missing out on cashing in on Forester wheel upgrades. You lucky new GT/OBXT folks don't have to worry about finding 17's!

-Dennis

ntk1

SC - Thanks for the post - it looks like you are the 4th person to have this problem (anyone else out there). I agree that when the stuttering is done with, it takes off pretty sharply. The fact that 4 people out of appx 30 to 40 who regularly post here and less than half of those actually have cars indicates to me that this is a widespread issue (Craig - help me out with the math here - I assume we have reached statistical significance). Has anyone got a dealers opinion on this yet ? does Patti have any comments ? My plan is to wait till after the break in period (currently at 480 miles) before going to the dealer

Pete

bluesubie

You guys need to go to the site commonly referred to as "nabisco" and do a search on "grounding mod".

You can also hit google and do a search using WRX grounding mod. As andmoon and others posted a few pages ago, it really sounds like a similar thing.

-Dennis

ntk1

Dennis - thanks for the info - I had a look around, seems like the problem was widespread with the WRX too. Also found another site dealing with the problem by fitting a conditioning/filtering device in the knock sensor line (according to this site, the knock sensor is sending false indication of approaching pre detonation to the ECU) - site is http://www.geocities.com/hobiegary/hesitation.htm

However - I do not have the inclination to start strapping cables or electronic modifications to a new car that I have just laid out $26k for to get the engine to run smoothly. I will take this up with Subaru first (Although from the info I gained from the above searches, it would appear that Subaru is in denial that a problem even exists)

Pete

bluesubie

Can't believe that's still around!
My '97 OBS had that problem (bblacha also mentioned that a few pages ago).

That problem was going on for a LONG time before SoA issued a TSB about it. That was in the days before Patti and Edmunds. :-) My dealer at the time knew nothing about it. I just kept resetting my ECU every month or so.

-Dennis

ntk1

How do you re-set the ECU ? is it just a question of disconnecting the battery ?

Pete

andmoon

Pete,
You can reset the Ecu by pulling a terminal off your bat. and pressing the brake pedal. You will have to reset your clock and radio.

The ground wire is just more grounding...you aren't connecting juice to anything. I had some quality wires from amps I had so I tried it free. If you have some wires, you can try it and if it works then go for the better looking stuff. I think it's easier than going to the dealer.

Don

dbyang

As I previously announced, I have ordered, and am awaiting the arrival of my new 05 gt auto wagon in regal blue mid-July. If anyone has a free maintainance coupon they are not going to use, would you please send it to me at 600 Plantation Road, Tallahassee, FL 32303. Thanks, in advance.

bblacha

you aren't connecting juice to anything.

I sure hope we're not connecting Juice to anything... with all his energy all the fuses would blow... LOL...

rob_m

you don't have to connect juice to anything. The dude is wireless!

oh yeah, to stay somewhere on topic, I like the new GT LTD sedan. Rob M.

kevin111

Maybe a ECU reflash will become a TSB in the near future? There aparently was one for the original WRX and one for the WRX STi. Maybe something to do with turbos?

BTW, just for curiosity's sake, Bluesubie, what wheels are the prodrives and how much (also weight)? I am not really looking right now, but thinking of upgrading to 17s in the future.

c_hunter

If the Forester 2.5 XT does not have this problem (and I don't recall seeing any complaints), then I'd assume it's a fairly minor fix possibly related to unique maps in the Legacy's ECU.

What differences in the engines could explain the problem other than control software??

Craig

tsy

I just walked into a dealer and bought a silver GT limited MT sedan, and love it! They didn't even have one ready for me to drive, so they sent me out in one not PDI'd (can they do that?).

Does anyone have one of the coupons for the 36K service that they are not going to use or know where I can get one?

I haven't noticed the hesitation in my GT, unless they RPMs are too low, of course. Maybe it's the electronic throttle control? My nissan quest has the same problem sometimes, although it seems to be because the gas pedal is so sensitive that as your foot moves up and down a little the engine responds that quickly. It's never an issue if you floor it.

Just some thoughts. I'll check it out tonight on my way home. It'll be hard not to blast past some unsuspecting german cars though while I'm breaking in the engine.

Anyway, if anyone knows about the coupons I'd appreciate it!

tom

yankee617

Thanks to all those who replied about trailer hitches.

My Subaru dealer finally got a hitch in for me last week and finally scheduled its installation for me this morning. So I drove all the way there, waited an hour in the service department, and THEN learned that the box the hitch came in didn't have all the necessary parts! Seems it was packaged poorly and the service guys spent their time trying to locate a vehicle with hitch that they could scavange for the needed/missing parts. Long story short... I just got my $420 back and left disappointed without a hitch. This has become the hassle I was trying to avoid by ordering the hitch with the car so I just gave up on the dealer.

Karen: Yes, the Subie hitch is 1.25"... that much I knew because the dealer asked me about 1.25" vs 2" awhile back and I just looked dumb since I wasn't even aware there were choices. Now I know a bit more... like there are Class 1 and Class 2 hitches (and Class 3, etc) depending on how much you want to tow. I do not know what class a "genuine subie" hitch is... (Does anyone here know?)

On the way back I stopped at U-Haul and found they could sell me one for $120 plus $50 labor... and an electrical box/setup would be $20 plus $20 labor... so they'll do the whole deal for about $220 including tax. They showed me the hitch and its a 1.25" Class 2 (heavy duty) which, according to their brochure, is good up to 3500 pounds gross trailer weight and 300 pounds tongue weight. Of course, I wouldn't tow more than the 2400 pounds my Subie is rated for.

The U-Haul hitch looked good but I did NOT get it... being a complete novice in these matters I hesitate to plunk my money down too easily and saving $200 would mean nothing if I wasn't fully satisfied with what I got.

My Subie dealer seemed to feel bad about my goose chase over the hitch and suggested that I call 1-800-hitchit... so I was glad to see others here recommend this place. So far I located it via google but the server for this web site doesn't respond.

So, although I am probably worrying about this WAY too much, I'm not really sure what the issues are. Should I be concerned that I'm getting the right "kind' of hitch... or will just about anybody I go to steer me in the right direction? Should I be concerned that I'm getting a good "quality" hitch... or are they all about the same? Should I be concerned that the hitch is "installed" well... or will all installers do about the same kind of work?

What are your thoughts/recommendations to this "Newbie with a Subie"?

Yan

PS) Today I bought my first tank of gas. 14 gallons at $1.959/gallon. I've put about 290 miles on the odometer so that's about 21 MPG. Got the car (OB'04, 35th aniversary wagon) on 21 June 2004.

jthorsen

Does anyone know where I can see a picture of the interior of a GT (not limited) with the clothe seats? All the pics seem to show the Limited interior with the leather...

Thanks
-Jon

rsholland

Not sure if you're aware of it, but unless your trailer has trailer brakes, your tow limit is 1000 pounds, not the "advertised" tow weight, which could be as high as 3000lbs on the '05 H-6 models.

If you have any questions, refer to your owner's manual.

Bob

ash13

There aren't any out there that I could find. But it looks identical sans leather.

salbaby1972

My neighpor got the U-Haul hitch install by them, on hte way up to N. Calif the interior lights of her Forester started to blink. Soon after all the electronics went out. I don't know if U-haul installed it wrong or if she connected the trailer calbes wrong, but she had a nightmare drive.

Your probably better off with the Subie on, at least it's covered under warranty...

--Sal

c_hunter

Draw-Tite and Hidden-Hitch are two good brands. I used to install hitches when I worked at a boat shop, and they are generally a piece of cake on the Subarus. In fact, it's real easy on the Outback because the feed wiring harness is already in place. I believe you can get a hidden hitch for about $120 online (which comes with the draw bar) and spend another $20-40 for the controller and wiring harness.

If you're able to change a flat tire, you could install a hitch on a Subaru. The hitch should come with idiot-proof instructions. You may need a torque-wrench but all the other required tools are fairly common.

Craig

yankee617

Thanks. I didn't know the tow limit was only 1000 lbs (without trailer brakes). That's a good piece of information to have. I'll go read my owner's manual (again).

I figure I'll take things one step at a time... first step is to get a hitch installed. Then I'll think more about trailers and towing and bike racks and such.

Yan

yankee617

Hmmm... maybe its a good thing that I'm leery about U-Haul.

If I buy an OEM hitch somewhere (e.g., on-line) do I need to have a Subie dealer install it to have it covered under warranty or can I have anyone install it? (No, I won't do it myself even if its fairly easy. If its so easy, then the installation shouldn't cost much.) Where on-line could I buy an OEM hitch?

I've heard good things about Draw-Tite and Hidden-Hitch but I just have no clue what the differences are... so I lean toward an OEM hitch. Maybe if I was less ignorant...

Yan

c_hunter

The main difference is that Hidden-Hitch tucks way under the bumper, so you only see the receiver poking out (hence the name). Hidden-Hitch models typically install in the proximity of the muffler on Subarus.

DrawTite mounts further back, typically in the vicinity of the tailpipe. So you see the hitch frame itself in addition to the receiver.

I guess I would get the Hidden Hitch myself, since it looks cleaner when installed. Not sure how the OEM hitch looks, but it's likely made by one of the two brands mentioned here.

Craig

yankee617

Hidden Hitch does sound nice... assuming the differences are only aesthetic and not functional as well. How can I determine who makes the OEM hitch?

rsholland

Thanks. I didn't know the tow limit was only 1000 lbs (without trailer brakes). That's a good piece of information to have. I'll go read my owner's manual (again).

My pleasure. Most people who are just learning about trailering aren't aware of this either, so you're not alone. This trailer brake restriction is very common among carmakers (truck/SUV makers too). The most common figure is 1000lb, and a few go as high as as 2000lb (full-size GM trucks).

Bob

kmartin

I already had mine done a week ago at the dealer. 4 hours and $477 later (w/wiring). It didn't take that long to install, but they were a bit short-handed that day. Labor was 1.8 hours (standard, they tell me), although it would have only taken the guy about 45 minutes to do.

If I had it to do all over, I probably would have driven the 10 miles to the local favorite bumper shop (Quality Bumper in Peoria, AZ) and had them do it instead of driving 22 miles to the dealer. I am certain it would have been less cost by half.

Note: according to my techie, the instructions that come with the Subie hitch are wrong....you do NOT need to remove the heat shields behind the muffler, as the booklet inplies. You DO, however, have to drop both mufflers to get to the pre-drilled screw holes. (It WAS fun, though, to listen to them rev up the engine with both mufflers dangling...not very loud, so there's a great deal of soundproofing there somewhere).

Thx for everyone's advice! -KarenM-

kmartin

I am pretty sure you will all get your service coupons in good time (mine took about 3-4 weeks after the purchase). Ask your dealer to check on this for you. We shouldn't have to be begging for them if Subaru is going to give them away free (and it IS about time!)

-KarenM-

kmartin

No new review links today, but I finally got around to taking some pictures today (I was supposed to be cleaning out the garage, but somehow I got sidetracked :-)

Check out the link on my "links" page at: http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

-KarenM-

tsy

Thanks Karen. Did you have to ask anyone for them? My dealer certainly didn't offer this information to me and tried to sell me the 3 year service plan.

Does anyone know about a side curtain airbag recall? I was told my side curtain airbags were replaced at the port.

tom

kmartin

No, I didn't have to ask for them. I received them the same day as the dealer did. I actually had opened my before they did, so it was news to them when I showed it to them.

As for the recall, Subaru changed the link...it's http://www.subaru.com/content/newscm/showArticle.jsp?category=0&a- mp;a- mp;a- mp;article=3

It's also listed at the very bottom of my links page (I listed them alphabetically by titles). I updated the link info just now, as well: http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html

My dealer told me there were only a very few that they wanted to recall, and it was to re-fold the airbag in a different way. It only affected sedans (2005 Legacy and Outback models only).

-KarenM-

bluesubie

http://www.prodrive-usa.com/product_detail.asp?yid=193&cid=11- - &pid=47&s=
I love 'em, but the offset isn't ideal for the XT.

Good weight info here:
http://wac.addr.com/auto/obs/wheels.html

-Dennis
p.s. - post any more questions in the WRX forum to keep this one sort of on-topic. :-)

rsq798

In one of the other Edmunds forums (I forget exactly which one), Patti indicated that we could request these coupons by going to www.subaru.com, clicking "Contact Us," and writing that Patti told us to request the coupon in that matter.

I just did that and got an email from another friendly service rep saying that she had forwarded my msg to Patti and that she or a designee would be sending would be sending one out shortly. Very friendly, I'm happy.

dcm61

They used to be made by Valley. My '96 actually had a Valley sticker on it. Not sure if they still make them for Subaru.

DaveM

seedpower

Just wondering if someone can tell me where the blinking light is on the 05 outback xt lmtd. the alarm on my 03 outback is aftermarket so I was just wondering.

thanks

rellom

Just drove the legacy sedan GT auto, have to go back to the dealer to drive the stick when one is available. (Also drove the h6 outback sedan, but cant buy that car, it just looks odd to me). Anyway, dealer will sell the gt auto sedan for 29,600 + tax. Price includes spoiler(because it's already on the car), subwoofer and dimming mirror/compass. He said that his price is $600 over invoice; my (edmunds)calculation is that it is about $1200 over invoice but is $100 lower than edmunds tvm price and $1500 below MSRP.
Should I buy it or is the price too high?

rellom

above post is a GT limited sedan.

k9noles

RSQ,

You are reffering to the extended service thing, not the test drive thing, right? Did the email from the SOA person seem to indicate they were going to simply mail out that coupon to you?

I certainly hope you're right (I just took your advice myself, considering we just bought a Leg GT Ltd. 5MT last week) but I'm sure hearing a lot of conflicting info on this topic...

Let's see...So far, as to why anyone has or has not received coupons, I've got(including direct email to me from SOA rep):

-Depends on where you live (subset:only NE area, only West coast area, only SE area, etc.) depends on your particular dealer, depends on your dealer's manager (I love that one!), depends on PRIOR Subie ownership, depends on CURRENT Subie ownership, depends if you've owned a higher end (BMW, Audi, Mercedes, etc.) vehicle in past, depends if you CURRENTLY own higher end vehicle, you have to be on a "CERTAIN MAILING LIST" but no criteria listed (random?), and several more but I think you get the picture...

We'll keep our fingers crossed-Again, love the car, and it's not the end of the world if it doesn't happen-Not suggesting SOA blanket the country with the things-but sending them out to those who care enough to directly request them would sure go a long way towards continued customer loyalty...

I'll quit typing and continue reading now-Welcome any other experiences/thoughts/comments from this very knowledgeable (sp?) group...Thanks all...

Steve

jim1969

Picked up my 2005 Legacy GT Limited sedan yesterday. Got the auto in silver. Can't wait until the 1,000 mile break in is over.

aussie outback

Thanks to all the useful comments from everybody - hopefully this review will help re-pay some of them.

We picked up our OB 3.0R last Tuesday and have driven about 300 miles in it since then. Overall satisfaction rating? Very high!!

Immediate impressions are the quality of the interior, engine smoothness and ride comfort/handling. On the debit side, the gearchange could be quicker and smoother (although the sportshift is great) , and the fuel economy so far has been disappointing.

A couple of notes: The beige interior is stylish but looks like it will be hard work. Took it down a muddy track for some hiking during the weekend and had to be pretty careful with the boots etc

Fuel economy is very average. I struggled to get over 15 mpg around town, and cruising on the open road lifted it to about 21 mpg. This is while obeying the 4000rpm break-in limit, so I can't see it improving much when run-in.

Interestingly, when I picked it up from the dealer, it had done 15 miles. I guess the dealer took it away to register it and other errands. I am always a little skeptical about how little respect dealers have for customer cars, and there is usually no hard evidence of abuse. However a quick review of the trip computer showed that the car averaged 8 mpg! So I'm guessing he gave it a hard time. Looking on the positive side, at least it was only 15 miles...

Otherwise the car is magnficent, and recognising that I won't get to use the performance of a Legacy GT very often, I am glad I got the 3.0 H6 rather than the GT or an OBXT (which isn't available in Australia anyway).

Happy to answer any questions, otherwise I wish you all happy motoring!

- Aussie Outback

snowbird

Aussie outback..... Congrats. Excellent choice on the 3.OR. I realize that you only just picked up your new car and are breaking it in. But how do you feel about its braking performance in general? (I am not suggesting you do a 60-0 test!) Does it inspire confidence? I asked because of concerns expressed in previous posts and I am also considering the Outback. Many thanks.

rellom

jim
If you care to, would you comment on my post no. 2696/7, I would love to have an indication if my dealer is quoting a fair number.

aussie outback

Snowbird,

I have read the posts on braking performance. My general view is that it would be dangerous to get carried away looking at statistics only, especially as it is counter-intuitive to what we expect from a lighter car which has generally been much-improved over previous versions.

Braking performance so far (limited) has been "very good". I have only 2 braking experiences to report so far -

1) I almost missed a right turn at one point and stood on the anchors to slow down quickly enough - the car pulled up smooth and easily - as quickly or more so than expected.
2) While driving down a greasy clay hill track I managed to get the ABS to kick in and it was less intrusive than I thought it would be.

However, an Aussie magazine called Wheels tested the Outback against a Toyota Highlander and a local Holden AWD wagon (Holden is a GM subsidiary which produces the Holden Monaro - aka Pontiac GTO in USA), and talked about brakes. They commented

 "...but eyebrows are raised when both the Outback's and the Holden's brakes go west during the demanding stops."

Maybe the poor stats in the test you saw were taken after a series of hard stops, and the Subie has a general issue with brake fade recovery?

Note that Aussie cars use Yokohama Geolanders as standard. As far as standard equipment tyres go, reviewers rate these very highly. I was suprised to read that US Outbacks are on Bridgestone Potenzas? These are not all-weather tyres are they? Australian back-country roads tend to be rocky and ridgy, so puncture performance is very important here and the Geolanders seem to do well in this regard. Don't know about snow performance though? Not as much of an issue here as it is in say Northern USA.

So my advice is - if you plan to use the brakes on a track or extremely hard use capacity, you may want to investigate further. Otherwise I would say it should not be an issue.

By the way - the Highlander won the comparison overall for space, comfort and better low-end, although the magazine conceded "if you want a sporty, dynamically rewarding drive, the Outback is the only place to stop."

- Aussie Outback

jim1969

Price was $28,583 for GT Limited automatic. Only option was compass mirror for $183. I will get the armrest extension (you really need it) once it becomes available. I heard in August it will be around. I live on Long Island, NY so the price may be different elsewhere. I put down a deposit 7 weeks ago to get it. My old car was almost dead. The dealer didn't give me a price until he got the paperwork on the car. BS! I got better quotes but would have had to wait 6-8 weeks again. I really needed the car. If you live in the northeast then check out Van Bortel Subaru in upstate NY by Rochester. They deal at invoice. Good luck.

rellom

Thanks Jim,
I am also on Long Island. Have only visited one dealer (Metric in Huntington)they want a bit over 29,000 for the car equipped with just the compass mirror. Havent done any serious negotiating yet but they dont seem to interested in moving on the price, it very much a "take it or leave it" attitude. I would like to buy from this dealership because their service department has been excellent but certainly would buy elsewhere for a better price. Any suggestions on other dealerships/salesmen I should visit?
Thanks again

snowbird

Aussie Outback,

Thank you for putting the braking issue in its proper perspective, which is much appreciated. No, I am not an aggressive driver. The 3 OR would be fine with me. Thanks again. Snowbird

yngturk

I love the '05 Outback... and the XT has a real kick to it (although delayed) compared to the 3.0. But perceived turbo reliability problems are pushing me toward the 3.0.

Any experience with this Subaru turbocharger? What about engine life with the turbo?

Basically... which is the better and more reliable... drive train?

Thanks.

rsholland

Basically... which is the better and more reliable... drive train?

Way too early to tell, the cars are just hitting the showrooms. You won't get a "meaningful" answer to that question for at least a couple of years.

Bob

kens

Just to note, today's turbos are nothing like the problematic units 10-20 years ago. Subaru's turbo engines are designed with semi-closed or closed blocks and have efficient cooling systems that help with longevity. I wouldn't be surprised if the reliability between the 3.0 and 2.5T were the same (given the same driving conditions, of course).

Ken