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Comments
I have the sedan and have had no problems with water falling on me.
-Eugene
I have to say that I am totally impressed with the new car. The level of refinement and sophistication is pretty amazing and it is one smooth ride (and fast!). I think the biggest improvement is in the steering -- it's light years better than my old Bean. And the interior/exterior rocks; the previous generation had 90s styling but the new generation is clearly keeping pace with modern themes.
Craig
2. Ground clearance is good for off roading and Passat does not even pretend to have such capabilities - unfair point, for on road performance it goes against Outback.
3. Buy armoured HMMV, it has much better protection :-)
By the way are you talking about Pontiac like body cladding ?
4. VDC = ESP and it is available for all models for 280 USD for Passat, point for VW.
5. You are probably right.
And now my points why Subaru is better:
1. Passat is old design, but it is doing quite well for its age.
2. Subaru offers something for an ethusiast: manual GT; one cannot have Passat with V6 and AWD and manual, there is W8 with manual and AWD but it is +35000 car and quite heavy.
3. Turbo 2.5 with AVCS is a gem. VW has nothing like this (they have 3.2 liter VR6 in Golf R32 but this car, even though smaller than Impreza, is heavier than Legacy).
4. Handling. I have Passat 03 (1.8T auto) and GT handles much better but tires are probably the biggest reason (VW 195/65 R15 - Subaru 215/45 R17). My other car - Passat 97 (auto VR6) - handles almost as good as GT (it has 215/50 R15 tires but no IRS Independent Rear Suspension) and I know its handling for years ;-)
5. GT brakes are very good.
For Passat:
1. Its interior is still better but engine and drivetrain are not. One knows where Subaru put money to.
2. Warranty.
Krzys
PS In my list of improvements for Legacy I forgot telescoping steering wheel.
Still for now re
-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html
Legacy is almost 300 lbs. lighter.
3721 lbs. vs 3435 lbs.
Legacy is longer and wider but lower.
Krzys
Krzys
Krzys - VDC > ESP
Owen
450 mile report:
So I've put on about 450 miles now. I'm averaging about 21mpg and I've started to let the revs climb up to 3500 and once in a while to 4000 very briefly. The engine does feel like it's losening up, especially on freeway driving. Power delivery is getting smoother and stronger.
I had a chance to drive at night. The new projector beams are superb! They're brighter and more defined than my Forester which I considered to be pretty good. I'm completely sold on the idea that HIDs are not a necessity with this car. I'll try and take pics sometime.
I also spent some time detailing my GT wagon this weekend. I washed, clayed and then applied Klasse AIO. The paint is now so incredibly smooth. Even on a freshly delivered vehicle, the clay bar was able to pull of enough contaminants to make a noticeable difference. Next weekend, I'm going to top it off with a coat of the High Gloss Sealant.
Ken
Ken- I was told by my local body shop not to put wax on cars that have been recently painted. He suggested 60-90 days for the paint to breathe and totally harden. Do you know anything about this? BTW,what kind of clay bar did you use?
tom
I think both are very similar.
Krzys
Thanks to everyone's posting their experiences. Please keep it up!
Mark
Enjoy your new ride, and look forward to more old vs new Outback comparisons as the miles pile on.
Bob
Bob
Bob: they are transferring my VA plates, but in the meantime I have temp MD tags. I was not even thinking about the car/truck issue, but come to think of it, most trucks in VA have the same kinds of tags as cars (even some commercial vehicles).
One thing I like about the gold color is that you get unpainted black rocker panel covers. I really like the durability and the look. The car came with the front bumper guard, and that looks decent on a gold car too (it appears to just be silver painted plastic).
Tom: I have strayed over 4000rpm a couple times by accident, and now I know I have to be more vigilant! The transmission will happily downshift right into 4000-5000rpm band if you let it, so I need to be more careful.
Craig
I used Mother's Clay Bar that you can buy at pretty much any auto store. Just remember to use liberal amounts of the detail spray and never, ever reuse a clay bar that's been dropped.
It's pretty amazing to see how much junk it'll pull off of even from a brand new car. I suspect that the vehicles pick up quite a bit of contaminants during shipment since the hood (which comes shipped with protective film) was the cleanest. The front fenders were the worst. A quick test to see if you need to clay is right after washing your car, put your hand into a plastic sandwich bag and run it over the paint. If it's clean, it should feel glass smooth. If it feels even a bit bumpy, you've got stuff embedded in your paint.
Craig: I've been keeping my 5EAT out of Sport mode -- the last time I put it in there, I was up to 4500 rpm before I knew it (oops!).
Ken
Just as you come to a stop, do you hear a "click" coming right from around the gear selector? You can also feel it if you have your hand on the selector as well.
It's fairly subtle so you would need to have the AC and stereo off to hear it.
Ken
One question, how are the brakes on your XT? Have you experienced any of the problems mentioned in some of the reviews regarding stopping power?
Have any recent owners of the 2005 legacy/outback figured out how to modify the factory radio to hook up with a mp3 player. My wife and I recently purchased a honda pilot. Reading the discussion forums for pilot there is an auxillary cable that can be purchased from logjam electronics that allows you to modify the stock radio. Any techie out there know how to do this on a 2005 subie?
Regards, jesse
Ken: you have a lot of dedication to clay bar a whole wagon!! I can barely muster enough energy to wax once with the Klasse cleaner wax, and maybe follow up with the sealant (though I did two coats to two cars in one day last fall). I've been fairly happy with the results from the cleaner wax on a new car, and have not ever used a clay bar first.
Craig
I thought I was crazy too, but it's a heck of a lot easier claying the GT wagon than my Forester. I also thought about going straight to Klasse, but I figured this would be one of the very few times I would clay.
So, have you seen any other XTs on the road around you? So far, I have not seen any other GT wagons, just one 2.5i wagon.
Ken
They probably aren't as strong as those on the X5 I traded (that 5000 pound vehicle can go from 60-0 in 117 feet) but they are very good. A person in front of me decided to stop to let a backhoe, which was happily waiting at a stop sign, get on the road ahead of us. I had to make an emergency stop in my Outback XT because of this unexpected courtesy. There was no problem but the person in the Land Rover behind me looked rather startled.
It finally rained here in Santa Fe and I don't recall any drenching when I opened the door.
I now have 920 miles and I am still enjoying the car (truck) throroughly. Shortly I am going to put it in sport mode and forget about it.
Frank
One person on the NASIOC forums was able to make his own adapter for the radio in his Forester XT, but it was not a perfect solution -- further development would be needed.
I'm in the process of evaluating solutions for my new Outback, and will let you know if I figure anything out. Step one is to see if I can get easy access to the back of the radio!
Craig
Ken
I don't know who said it but yes I agree it should be in every 2005 Legacy and Outback.
Krzys
Yours truly.
Bob
Bob
Ken- thanks for the clay bar tips. It must have been a good chunk of your weekend!
I have never seen another GT on the road. I have seen 2 black XTs and a white one. Still a rare car up here.
I had someone ask me if I bought a Mustang. I tried not to get offended! ;-) They thought it looked like a sports car.
tom
Here's a pic of my new OB XT:
c_hunter "Subaru Crew: Photo Gallery" Jul 19, 2004 9:13pm
Craig
Craig
POWER: The FXT is faster, with instant power delivery, while the OBXT has a smoother, linear throttle response. Think of the FXT as the Tasmanian Devil, while the OBXT is more like the Road Runner. Beep Beep
REFINEMENT: The OBXT definitely wins in this department - quiter interior, more supple, but still firm, ride, classier looking interior, more intelligent climate control, has trip computer. The electro-luminiscent OBXT gauges are better visible than the red needles on the FXT
COMFORT/SPACE: Front seat space and comfort about the same, rear seat space slightly bigger in the OBXT, cargo space bigger in the FXT. Power seat on the OBXT is definitely a big plus - very easy to adjust.
TRANMISSION: Both 5 speeds are easy to work and shift smoothly. The OBXT clutch feels lighter, but the FXT shifter is positioned better, the OBXT one sits a bit high.
HANDLING/BRAKING: About the same, the FXT feels slightly lighter on its feet, but the OBXT has faster steering ratio.
SUMMARY: FXT still more practical of the two and less expensive. OBXT should appeal to those with priority on refinement over utility.
Useful info for us on the fence. One question though, cargo space: I think the OB is bigger in both volume and floor surface. Are you referring to the height, or another measure?
I'd have to say that the 05 Outback looks to have a smidge more cargo room than my 02 did, just visually. Anybody have the specs?
Craig
2004:
wagon 34.3 rear seat up
wagon 68.6 rear seat down
2005:
EPA Cargo volume, no sunroof 33.5cf
EPA cargo volume with seats flat, no sunroof 66.2cf
So we've lost a cubic foot or so.
By comparison, Forester 32cf, 64.1cf. Legacy/OB also have more floor space, where most of our junk goes. See cars101 for detailed measurements, this guy is thorough.
Replacements:
- One each for 7500, 15000, and 22500 miles - good for replacements of engine oil, oil filter, drain gasket; also includes free tire rotation
- One for 30000 miles - same as others, except also includes replacement of brake fluid, fuel filter, coolant, air filter, spark plugs (if recommended by manufacturer); also includes tire rotation
Inspections:
- The 15k coupon also calls for inspection of brake system, boots, axles, steering, suspension, parking brake and clutch operation.
- The 30k coupon includes everything the 15k coupon calls for, plus inspection of brake linings and drums, drive belts and cam belt, fuel system hoses and connections, tranny/diff lubricants, and AT fluid.
Each coupon has my name, address and VIN pre-printed on it. There are separate customer and dealer instructions...the usual “cannot be combined with other coupons” and “Present coupon...before service is performed”. Dealer instructions include how to get reimbursed. There is an interesting disclaimer on the back of each page stating that Subaru is not “liable for the performance or quality of the services performed by the dealer under this plan”....hmmm...not exactly a glowing recommendation...
I figure I will do one extra oil change in between, as I generally do that every 4k miles (dust and heat out here in the AZ desert pretty much require it). Still, it'll save me $100+. Can't beat that!
-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html
Nice looking car! I hadn't thought of the Gold color, but after seeing your's it is a contender. Do you plan to tint the windows, or keep it as is?
Mark
It's a very subtle gold, and reminds me of a color that Chrysler used a few years ago that sort of changed color, depending on how the light hit it. I also think this same color (under another name) is available on the Saab 9-2x.
It's a great looking color.
Bob
The clock/trip display in the dash is upward facing, and gets washed out by reflection from the windshield in many daylight conditions. They should reshape the display and/or give it a matte finish! This is in stark contrast to the wonderfully readable clock display in my WRX, which somebody clearly took the effort to hood off from reflections.
The driver's door pull is smack in the way of the controls. Yeah, you can still get to them but it involves an uncomfortable wrist motion. I remember Bob flagged this when we first saw pics of the new Legacy interior a couple years ago, and sure enough he was right.
White lettering on the dark silver console surface is hard to read in the daylight.
Parking brake lever pokes my right leg.
Much different front seat storage space than my previous Outback -- we're down to the armrest bin, the very small/shallow (Nav) pocket above the radio, and the door pockets. The previous generation Outback had a DIN pocket under the radio, a bin under the ashtray, and the coin drawer near the driver's left knee. Small things, but they were useful. I will really miss the DIN pocket for holding CDs. There is not really a convenient place for CDs in the new interior.
The new car has an actual cigar lighter and ashtray! They are very small and cramped, so this seems like a mixed message to me. I'd rather have a real storage pocket there. In fact, I could not fit the plug for my cell phone charger into that lighter socket! The socket in the armrest is very handy, however, and the armrest cover contains a pass through for cables. Nice idea.
I have more legroom and a better line of sight out of the new car (I'm 6'1"). Feels like a generaly better driving position in the 05 (the old car felt cramped at times). The seats are excellent!
The stereo sounds good at low volume, but it clearly adjusts the tone (minimizes bass) to prevent distortion at higher volumes. The result is that sound flattens out at higher volumes. This is the same behavior that drove me nuts with the radio that came in my WRX. I can compensate for this with my iPod, by putting out a stronger line signal (once I figure out how to *connect* the iPod, that is) but CDs will be a mixed bag as they all have different loudness levels.
The auto-dim compass/mirror vibrates with bass notes from the stereo. This was entertaining in my 93 Civic when I was much younger but seems unrefined in a 05 car that stickers for nearly $33K.
The design of the cargo area and underfloor storage compartments is much better in the 05 model, and I look forward to the day when I have to stash the cargo shade under the floor! The look of the cargo area is a lot nicer too with the various metal and chrome accents. This won't mean much when I dump bags of mulch in there, but it does give the car a nice upscale look which ought to impress buyers.
The added ground clearance over my previous Outback is very apparent, both visually and while driving. However, the new car handles better in every way so I think Subaru pulled off a major feat here. Kudos for their packaging and structural design that produced a lighter and less end-heavy car.
The car is extremely quiet, smooth, and muffled. You can tell that they built this into the design, as opposed to adding it to the previous generation when the H6 models came out. The new car is generations more refined than old one in this regard. Road noise and chassis noise are very well damped out.
I think I have already raved about the 5EAT, so no changes there. I do notice some surging/stuttering in the engine's power delivery, which comes as a result of backing off the throttle early (in order to stay within the 4K rpm band for break in). I think this is a reality with such a powerful turbo engine. I would get similar behavior from my WRX if I backed off the throttle.
This car is fast!! It is easily faster than my WRX in a practical way. I'd have to really wind the heck out of the WRX to get it going as fast as the new 2.5 turbo motor in the Outback -- you have to really want speed in the WRX to get speed. In contrast, the Outback XT and Legacy GT are just fast period, and do it in a much more relaxed and usable fashion.
My avergage MPG is now at 20mpg after about 320 miles of total driving.
They added cruise "on" and "set" indicators to the instrument panel, which satisfies one of the longstanding gripes of the crew. Think they lustened to us, or was it in the cards already? I like the new multifunction cruise control stalk a lot -- it puts all the cruise functions in one central place.
It probably goes without saying, but the new Outback looks great inside and out. My old wagon was a frumpy plaid shirt in comparison.
That's all for now, more to come later...
Craig
Interesting observations, please keep them coming. Everyone's obseravtions are very helpful to those of us who are debating on which model to wish for.
Mark
Many competing cars with motion sensors have on/off switches for that capability (I know the A4s do, for instance). Does anyone know if it's possible to disable the motion/shock sensor? And if not, has anyone tested out the sensitivity of the sensor? It seems that some alarms are so sensitive that merely driving by them in a parking garage triggers them. Another minor concern, given that I live in the PNW, is that the ferry system requires motion sensors to be disabled. Wave action seems to trigger alarms.
As for the subwoofer, has anyone done any comparisons with and without? Is it worth the loss of toe room under the driver's seat? Craig, you mentioned mirror vibrations. Does your car have the subwoofer?
Admittedly, these are pretty minor issues. But if these items aren't worth much, I'd prefer to not waste the money on them.
Thanks for any advice!
Doug
-KarenM-
http://members.cox.net/kamartin/2005outbackreviews.html
-KarenM-
Doug: I do not have the sub, but would like to add one to my 05 if it's easy to get to the back of the radio. We had a sub in my wife's old Forester and in my WRX, and they are worth getting as long as you don't expect to bomb neighboring cars with bass. As a low-end augmentation of bass for normal adults, I'd say the sub does a perfect job. It sounds good to me without being ridiculous.
I'm hoping I can take the sub out of my WRX before selling it and install it in the Outback.
Make sure you see the red in person before making any decisions. I was also going for red based on photos, but it was too much of a ketchup color when I saw it on the lot (the color chip in the brochure is not very accurate). Gold on the other hand, looked great and is very upscale.
Sam: while trying to load a compressor into the back of my previous Outback, I measured my wife's Forester to see if it would be any easier since I was running out of height. I expected the Forester to be taller, but it was not, at least not enough to make any difference. I eventually took the wheels of the compressor and got it into the Outback. I would have had to do the same to get it into the Forester. If the Forester is any taller, it's not by more than a half inch or so (I'm talking about the liftgate opening height which is what really matters).
Craig