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Comments
Qs: Where does the sub mount? Is it on the driver or passenger side, on the seat on or the floor? Also, is wire already run to the mounting location ie is it simply plug 'n play if I decide to install myself? Any idea on the colour or plug type so I can verify in my vehicle?
Sorry for the barrage of questions.
Cheers,
Jay.
I actually think the handling of my 05 OB XT is significantly better than my 02 LL Bean. It's probably the thing I like best about the car. The steering is especially improved in both accuracy and feel. I would actually say the suspension is stiffer on my XT compared to the 02 Bean.
Keep in mind that they lowered the CG of the car in 05 compared to the 02 (while at the same time raising ground clearance), so you're already "low" compared to what you were used to. If you are seriously thinking about lowering for both handling and aesthetics, I'd say you should have gotten a Legacy GT wagon. You paid a premium for the Outback's suspension (about $1200 in the US), and it would be a shame to waste that.
What tire pressure are you running on the Potenzas?? Their behavior is very dependent on tire pressure, meaning you can alter the handling and ride with a couple psi either way. From your comments, I'd say you should try raising the pressure. I am at 34F/33R (psi) and happy.
There is a bezel available in Japan, and people have looked at importing it here. Unfortunately, it is pricey because the climate controls are integrated into the panel. So you are paying for a lot of hardware! So far, there is no "bezel-only" solution.
As for launches -- if you have 5EAT, put the transmission in sport mode and let it shift for you, that's the fastest way to get the car moving off the line. My car is pretty much a rocket off the line...
Craig
My only complaint with my OB XT is that the tires are noisy. That's it. Love the seats, the brakes are fine in my experience, and the ACC works as I expect it to.
BTW: Colin is 100% right about the ABS behavior. If it kicked in before the brakes lock that would be wrong (there are numerous complaints on the NHSTA site about cars who have premature ABS activation, and it's not pretty). ABS should only activate after a very brief lockup. You should hear a chirp-chirp-chirp from the tires as ABS activates.
Craig
The car is not prewired, so you have to take the center console apart and remove the radio. It takes a while but is not hard (and we have a couple tricks that can help).
The sub harness tees into the main radio harness at the back of the radio and then runs down the console, under the seat, and to the sub.
Craig
I appreciate any feedback.
Cheers,
Jay.
CRaig
This new Haldex system lets the driver choose max fuel economy or max traction. In the economy setting the vehicle has full time all wheel drive to the same extent as with the 2.5i automatic; in the other setting it is comparable to VTD.
It is not clear which of the Haldex-equipped vehicles other than the V8 Volvo have PreX.
I also agree with Colin- The ABS will briefly lock up, chirping the tires and then you'll feel that grinding of the pedal. Actually, I did this on my way into work today. But if you're gentle and progressive with the pedal you can get the ABS to kick in without briefly locking up the tires (but it won't be the shortest braking distance either)
tom
As for the ACC and the seats, there was no way to determine the problems from a test drive. Anyway, I still like the car and would buy it again, but that doesn't mean that I'm automatically happy with every aspect of the car. The car has its warts and weaknesses, and I'm just making sure people are aware of them before they make a decision.
I'm hoping that the tires will make a bg difference and I am planning to change them next summer. However, I still think the ABS is deficient. The ABS on my 93 Volvo 850 GLT did NOT lock the wheels, and when C&D tested it in 93, it fast the shortest braking sedan they had ever tested. My Highlander also did not lock the wheels until it got to 5KPH or less, and the brakes felt a lot stronger, although I did have the excellent Michelin CrossTerrains.
I'm glad for you that you have no complaints about the car, but that doesn't mean that there are no legitimate problems. There are several people complaining about the seats and the ACC. The weak brakes are now very well documented by multiple tests in the trade press.
The concensus also seems to be that while the RE-92A's are not great, they are not bad either. In any case, if the tires really cause this weak braking problem, then what the heck is Subaru thinking? Aren't they supposed to be safety conscious?
Sly
Craig
The XC70 and Audi allroad quattro are similar in concept and those offer stability control, so no doubt Subaru wanted to match those for customers that want every last ounce of technology to enhance their own safety.
So spring for the VDC, you'll feel more at home.
-juice
would this mess up VDC??
Bob
Came down to VDC vs. OB XT Ltd. Total safety package was my first concern. My 13-year old preferred XT Ltd and I really liked it, too. But the VDC won out,for safety, in the end. I would have probably bought the XT had VDC been available on that model. The VDC has a few 'extras' that, frankly, I don't really care about but generally enjoy, now that I own the car. It would be great if VDC were made widely available by Subaru, but....
I confess: I did have a few Volvo moments (with the deep discounts that were emerging on the '04 XC's). I had really liked driving my XC...when it was not in the shop and/or I was worrying about the next light coming on and announcing its intentions vis-a-vis my savings account. I was thinking: 'maybe the new ones will be better?" But, my wife and son pulled me back with strong reminders of time lost in the shop and the money the car seemed to demand as its birth right - over $10,000 in 3+ years, post-warranty!
I'm at 12,000 miles and still really like the VDC. Drives/handles great. Quick, fast, responsive and pretty quiet. And, I really like the look of the car...IMHO, sleeker/more appealing than the Volvos.
'Stability'has been a non-issue: handling/responsiveness/confidence actually superior to my '99 XC and, based on test-drives of '04 XCs, VDC seems much superior to them, as well. Actually, by comparison, the Volvo handling seemed rather sloppy.
Was concerned, after test drives/before buying, about driver's seat (especially coming out of a Volvo) and have to say that this has proven to be my single biggest complaint. Nice seat, I suppose, but nowhere near Volvo-quality. Too narrow and, perhaps, a bit too hard for my butt/taste. Relatively easily overcome, however, with a tempurpedic-quality seat cushion. Driver's leg room has been fine (I'm 6' and shrinking as I age).
Wife and son have no complaints about shape/support of passenger seat and, so far, none of the teen back-seat passengers have complained about back seat or rear legroom. Full-sized teens might be less critical than adults on rear legroom, but don't know too many folks who carry many adults for long periods in back seats. So, fwiw, rear legroom should not be a problem.
Now, the big question: 'worth the difference in price'? Oh, goodness, yes! Long-term costs should be dramatically lower for the VDC. Certainly, the XC is likely to have a higher re-sale value, but once you substract the liklihood of MUCH greater repair costs and, for the '05 XCs, at least, the $5-8,000 purchase price difference, you'll be way ahead.
It's a terrific car in its own right. Can't see any advantage to the Volvo, especially, based on cost. You should really enjoy the car on its own terms...and be thrilled about the money saved vs. the Volvo.
Good luck. Peace.
You should definitely stay away from first model years and major redesigns with Volvos.
Another factor to consider is if you are leasing or buying. I like to lease and get a new car every 3-4 years, so long term reliability (which is not exactly stellar with Subaru either BTW) is not a factor for me. But when I was cross shopping the XC70, I was actually able to lease the XC70 for slightly less than the OBXT Ltd, despite the $5000 price difference. THat was partly because of the better rate, but in large part because of the better residual value.
But the main reason I went with the OBXT is the handling and power. To me the XC70 drove like a big Buick, not good!
On leasing: with the mileage I put on, it seemed like lease rates were prohibitive. I really thought the XC would have been a fine - and safe - ride for at least 250,000 miles and that I would recapture my investment in the later years. Also, it sure would have been nice to get out from under payments for a few years! In the end, I just could no longer afford the repairs. Perhaps, in retrospect, leasing would have made more sense...
I certainly agree about the 'Buick' drive vs. the OB - both the XT Ltd. and VDC. We're in agreement, it seems, about the OB being a good choice.
Peace.
I am getting closer to purchasing the VDC. Do you have any issues with the brakes as posted here.
What about staining etc. with the taupe leather.
I prefer darker leather but obviously the only choice. Lastly some people have compaints about exhaust smell when sunroof is open.Thanks again for your input.
By the way I am keeping the 2001 cross/country.Replacing a older second car. It has 66,000 with absolutely no repair issues other than maintenance.
Craig
The smell thing seems to be fairly isolated to a few cars. It is certainly not a noraml situation I have not had that problem with mine. It appears to be a manufacturing defect on a few cars, my dealer is not aware of any such problems with his customers.
Sly
Several exterior bulbs had burned out, but I have stopped by my local Volvo dealer and they have immediately popped new ones in place.
This is my third Volvo and I'm a happy Volvo owner, but I have been thinking about buying an Outback for my wife because I think it is also a great vehicle.
Anyway, the cars are pricey, the v-70 at least does not go in snow at all, these cars are wide heavyweights, so luxury over sport, and they are always in the shop for repairs. I think it is a great car for people with disposable incomes, but otherwise, buyer beware.......
BTW, the LGT won overall. Reverse of the 4-car comparison just a month or so ago.
I'm still on the "lust list". Wife (the accountant) says I can't get a new car until we get our son off the family dole. Hopefully by this spring? I don't dare visit our local Subie dealers any more; I'll just drool all over those lovely cars. I want the GT wagon, preferably without the Limited package, because I've never seen a sunroof that I used more than once a year or so. But the standard seats seem to lack thigh support relative to the all-power seats. Anyone know how hard it might be to just lift the front of the seat rails with a couple of spacers under the mounting bolts? A bit more uptilt on the front seems to be all that is needed for the seats to be fine for us. We're both skinny-butt types so we found the seat bolsters to be a non-issue; in fact, quite comfy.
I prefer the lighter leather and nothing particularly difficult about keeping it clean. I'm not fanatical about clean interiors and with a scruffy dog and scruffy teenager, road bikes, etc., car seems clean enough to me.
No problem with exhaust fumes, but really haven't had sunroof open that often.
Again, only 'issues' are driver's seat and wish there were seat memory. Oh, and like others, would like easy set up for installing satellite radio.
Certainly, so much of this is subjective, but I really like the look (silver) and the drive is great.
Don't want to prolong the Volvo discussion. VDC would be a great choice. Good luck!
Peace.
For single-shot panic stops, almost all car brakes are capable of completely locking the wheels. What sets aside good from bad braking systems is their feel, ability to modulate and resistance to fade.
Braking distance disparities, as noted several times here, are largely in due to the tires.
Ken
And I thought our 626 was bad, with $2500 over the same amount of time.
In Volvo's defense, their cars do seem durable, if not reliable. By that I mean they seem to last a long time, even if they require repairs along the way.
-juice
Unfortunately, I think they're turning into F.O.R.D.s (Fixed Or Repaired Daily) ;-)
tom
For what its worth, longish stopping distances are one of the debits that Consumer Reports is noting for their tested Outback 2.5 Limited 4A in the November issue. That and sluggish acceleration (CR usually runs slower than the real car mags- because they use what would be equivalent to a Car and Driver "Street Start"- that is, simply stomping on the accelerator, as opposed to brake torqueing or double clutching. In any case, CR's test OB 2.5 Limited 4EAT wagon, which is, I believe the slowest Legacy/OB that can be configured, needed an eternity to hit 60.... 11.8 seconds.)
I'm still building my Subaru knowledge- does the company employ EBD and/or Brake Assist on any of the Legacy/OB models?
Happy Motoring,
~alpha
All of the new Legacy/OBs have EBD. In fact, I think every Subaru uses it now. No brake assist, however.
Ken
I wouldn't be too hard on Ford, based on my personal experience. Seems to me that Volvo was drifting toward a different market and corporate philosphy before Ford took over. Most of the mechanics I worked with could trace the corporate shift in the early-mid 90's through engineering changes that made the cars less reliable and more difficult/expensive to repair.
Interestingly, the 3 Fords I've owned over the past 17 years were remarkably problem-free. I had one of the first Tauruses - with all the toys. Nor a single serious problem that I can recall. Next a '92 SHO - a truly wonderful car! Only major repair in 100,000 miles was ACC...and, I thought, overall, the ACC was terrific. With the SHO, even the battery was incredible - nearly 100,000 mi. before replacement. Then, I had a '97 Explorer on a 2-year 50,000 mi. lease - also trouble-free.
Enough on Volvos. Cheers to Subaru!
Peace.
these Subaru ACC problems are baffling to me considering the Japanese Domestic Market Subarus have had some form of ACC for years... 5-7 maybe?
~Colin
Right, and we have only had ACC for 2-3 years. Maybe American Subaru customers have not figured out how to use it yet....
I do acknowledge that there are legit issues with the Subaru ACC, but I still see a lot of confusion on the part of customers/users. This is made worse by the poor instructions in the manual.
Those of us with prior experience with Subaru ACC seem to be doing fine, as are a large number of new owners.
Craig
ACC is supposed to make your life easier, not harder. There should absolutely not be a requirement for the users to learn to work around the problems and quirks. It should be mostly set and forget, except for a few situations like foggy windows. Any product that causes lots of usability issues for its users is a poorly designed product. Period. That is doubly true for a product whose only purpose in life is to take an already simple process and make it even simpler.
The main problem as far as I can tell, is temperature overshooting in heating mode. There is nothing that I can do to circumvent that, other than manually taking over by reducing the temperature setting, which again totally defeats the purpose of an ACC. And this would only require that Subaru perform a simple re-design of the temperature probe. If they eliminated that problem, then I would be a lot less unhappy about the remaining operating quirks. They should also not advertise dual zone ACC when there is only one temperature sensor.
The only nice things about this ACC are the "auto" defrost mode, and the automatic switching to max heat once the engine has warmed up on a cold morning. But I would gladly give those up and return to a simple manual system.
Well, given the large number of new users who can't figure it out, something is clearly wrong!
Craig
Not to come up with excuses for Subaru, but perhaps their thinking was that the wiper de-icers would work well enough by themselves that people would not need hot air blown up through the defrost vents?
-juice
Looking for a simple and cheaper solution for winter tires for my mothers car.
Thanks!
http://www.geocities.com/samiam_68/SubaruCCS/SSC_Fix.htm
I suspect the problem is caused by the same poor air flow to the temp sensor.
Unfortunately, I don't have access to a Legacy / OB to try it out.
Sam
It's made life easier for this owner. With my all-manual Forester system I was constantly adjusting the settings.
Now, all I really need to do is hit the AUTO button with some occasional tweaks.
I can't imagine the hardware and software being different from vehicle to vehicle so there must be a wide range of performance expectations.
Ken
Everything I've read on the Board here about wheel fitment on these cars is that the OEM 16" wheels will fit both the 2.5i and the 2.5 XT. I **believe** I read somewhere that the brake calipers won't clear with a 15" wheel (I wish they did--I've got a set of 15" studded Hakka Q's I'd LOVE to put on my Subie this winter).
Hope that helps,
Tim G.
'05 OBXTL 5MT
Up here in Eastern Canada, if you press "AUTO", be prepared to get VERY hot before it gets comfortable again. So you have to turn the temperature down to wake up the system, and that sometimes causes it to go into AC mode even though the outside temp is quite cold.
So you pretty much have to operate the system manually, and this is where it really gets in the way as it has a mind of its own. This is where the user has to learn to work around the system's quirks.
There is also no temp sensor on the passenger side, so how can they pretend to control the temperature individually in the two zones?
Craig
During the peak of summer, I often had to turn down the fan speed after hitting AUTO in order to prevent frostbite. After hitting a steady state temperature, I would go back to full auto mode.
Wish I could send you guys some of our warm weather!
Ken
In my Forester (and my previous Outback), you can choose to close the 2 side vents if you want the airflow to cease.
-Brian
Sly
-B