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Comments
Ken
Any feedback would be appreciated so I know whether to include on my list for my first dealer visit.
Going to an OB XT you're getting SAC and a lot more refinement that the Tribute can't match, so I don't really see them in the same class. No more than a G6 would be compared to a BMW 3 series.
Then you also have the part-time AWD and the early woes on the Escape/Tribute, which had me shy away.
I guess you are comparing because of price, though. I'd take a serious look at a Forester XT. You can get the Premium Package with either tranny now, and believe me you will recover any extra expense when you resell.
Even 6 years down the road it matters. The blue book on my Forester is $8600. On a Jeep Grand Cherokee, which cost $6000 (!) more when new, the book value is $8000.
So look at it that way. I'd bet the Mazda will depreciate faster and actually cost you more than the Subie.
-juice
Seems to me that the problem is that as the throttle is reduced to off, it is not linear to zero. It steps down such that the minimum throttle is too big for some driving situations such as going down hill on a highway. In this situation, the mininum throttle is too much so the CC switches back and forth between throttle off to minimum throttle. I have turned off the CC in this situation wasn't able to maintain a constant speed.
You should add that to your dealer checkup.
Ken
Thanks Ken. I didn't think it was normal.
I solved the problem by just not using it, just like I don't use the auto climate control.
I must admit the 2005 2.5i is a huge improvement over my 2004 2.5. It's much smoother, has more power, and has a better exhaust tone.
Once again, thanks for the feedback and you raise some very good points (especially on resale). I think that Mazda has overcome their early recall problems (most of them were in 01, and they seem to have become much more reliable over the past several years). I agree with you on the Forester XT, I really like them, but my wife is not keen on the styling and ultimately she will be driving the vehicle more than me. That said, she really wants to 05 Outback (either XT or Bean), and believe me when I say that I would much prefer them to the Tribute, except the price factor... You are right, cannot really compare the Tribute and the XT/Bean versions of the Outback, not fair. But, the thing is that the Tribute gives me everything I am looking for (power, legroom/cargo room, AWD, leather, sunroof, 6 disc changer).. If only Subaru offered something in between the XT and the base 2.5.... The bottomline is that we will have to drive the vehicles back to back and then compare our payments.. (Hopefully I can get the wife to drive a Forester XT. Personally, I think the car has great personality and is a blast to drive!)
Thanks,
-Tim
Thanks!
-Nate
Finally, any 2.5 i owners out there getting the full 30 mpg highway and if so at what point mileage wise did yuou first start getting it. As of now I have 1500 miles and have not gotten past 28 mpg. Yes I am impatient, it took 20,000 to get the best mileage on my WRX.
TWRX
http://www.stinkyteapot.com/images/soobie2.jpg
http://www.stinkyteapot.com/images/soobie.jpg
As goes the RE92A, 251-45ZR-17, these tires are nowhere to be found in any local tire dealer or Subaru dealer. Ordered it thru my dealer,for $185, I need a replacement wheel since the front passenger wheel hit the curb and the rim was damaged and tire got a cut,on the sidewall. Taking it in saturday for a wheel alignment check, and to have the new wheel mounted. As I've read these posts, many of you seem to be very astute when it comes to Subaru problems and maintenance. Is there anything else I should have my dealer check on this wheel on saturday. This is an excellent forum, especially for someone like myself, who is not acquainted with the nuts and bolts of the GT.
Just my $.02
Tim
'05 OBXTL 5MT
I still think the base Outback is plenty adequate and the gas mileage beats the Tribute by far.
And yes, stock wheels are pricey. Even the steelies, if you can believe that.
Bruce: took me about 15k miles to start getting peak efficiency also.
beanboy: might be the differentials breaking in. Try this - drive in a figure 8, in an open space of course. Patti suggested that to someone a while back and voila - it worked.
-juice
Shopping at TireRack, you see the whole range from 24lb cast wheels for $129 to 14lb forged wheels at $475. Based on that, I think the OEM replacements are not too bad at all (actually, I would have expected them to be much more expensive, since you normally pay a lot for OEM replacement parts regardless of the quality).
Craig
The 4-door Subaru Outback SUV was the only vehicle to score five stars in all four categories, driver and passenger front impact safety and driver and rear passenger side impact safety.
The tires are way over priced, though, for what you get. You can get a Pirelli P-zero nero or Toyo proxxes-4 for almost half the price, and they're better tires (handling, comfort, quieter). I'l leaning towards the Toyos myself, but I'm not sure about how they do in snow yet so I'm waiting for some reviews.
tom
~c
What makes you lean towards the Toyos? The P-Zero Neros look like a good tire also.
Ken
Just from what I've been reading about in other forums. The P-zero neros seem to tramline, and we have a lot of bridges here in Seattle (SF too!) and I hate that wobbling all over the road. Perforamance seems to be about the same, the Toyos might be a little quieter. I'm not sure about tread life. Hopefully they'll do ok in the snow as they're M+S rated.
Also Toyo seems to be a good company and I've never had them, wheras I have not had good luck with Pirellis in the past.
I'm sure they're both good tires and either would be much better than these RE-92s (unless you enjoy sliding around in the rain- it's fun sometimes, but the poor braking isn't!)
I might get a set for the fall/winter here to put on my stock rims and get a set of pure summer tires on new rims.
tom
Tramlining may be affected by the tire size, vehicle, and aspect ratio, so keep that in mind. Some people report tramlining with the PZN but others don't. It defnitely seems to affect 18" tires more than 17" based on what I have heard, and it affects different cars differently.
I am still shopping for tires and discovered the Yoko Avid H4S (and V4S). They seem to rate very highly and are $110 on the Outback size, which is nice compared to the other all seasons performance options (Pilot A/S for $190). However, I would be stepping down to an H speed rating from the stock V on the RE-92. Probably not a big deal since the load rating is the same.
Craig
Outback gets 20/20 and yet they give the headline to Dodge/Chrysler which got fewer stars overall (19/20).
Subaru gets no respect from the media. Unbelievable!
Remember when the Outback scored poorly among wagons? They made sure to put that in the headline.
*sigh*
-juice
tom
As for replacement tires for the OEM RE-92As, I'm looking at the Firestone Turanza LS-Vs (although I'll wait until the OEMs are closer to toast). $150 at Tire Rack, and they seem to get very good reviews from buyers. Cheaper than the Pilot A/S, with similar performance in the wet and dry, it appears. I'd like to hear more about the Falkens and other tires people have mentioned recently though.
Doug
I was looking at the (Bridgestone) Turanzas too. My only concern is that they are grand touring tires, so there may be a handling downgrade from the RE-92s because the sidewalls are softer. They will be more comfortable/quieter and better in rain/snow, however. Still on my list...
Craig
At first we sat down, he showed me the invoice and said I'm gonna charge you $400 over invoice and then he when to explainin' some finance. It was like a quick clean deal. No haggling or bargaining with him. Was it sweet or what.($400 over invoice is good, right guys?) So I wanted a black/black w/out spoiler and he didn't have one in. He'll just has to pick one up for me. We found a bidder to buy my trade-in and he wanted to check out my car. He couldn't show up for another 2 hours. We decided to go to the mall. Just as we were about to leave a fresh new load of cars just arrived at the dealer. There was a black/black limited but had a spoiler. I told the guy why don't you give me that car and we'll call it good. He figure out some numbers and ddn't want to bother senting someone to pick up the car. He said he'll lose a little more but had to charge $35 more into my bill. I told him "I'll take that".
The bad part was that I got a bad trade-in value.
But I'm glad I got rid of it. A clean start for me. I ask our dealer "couldn't you get a better deal for my car?" and he said that once the bidder says the price he'll pay for is it. He felt bad and once again he lower our price just $100 over invoice(plus I have to pay tax).
As I drove home, I had set the cruise control on at about 22mph and it work to my suprise. Usually only work at 40 n above. The instruments were a little confusing and still need to get use to it. My brother thinks the engine is loud from the outside and no memory seat(s). "wouldn't go right out to trade one for it". He drives a BMW 320 convertible. That's alright because it's my car and I'm driving it. But Subaru, I'm still waiting for the Leagacy H6 turbo.
Oh yeah, Free oil change for life at this deallership for me or any body that bought from them.
2 seat sports car.I would imagine ,given the recent news about the hybrid accord, altima, and camry, a hybrid engine is in the works for the subaru line. The hybrid sports car has 300hp,gets 50mpg.
c_hunter Oct 26, 2004 4:22pm
I'm running them on 215/45-17s with the WRX wagon [~3k miles] and so far tramlining is at a minimum.
I'll be seeing how they fair in snow, if any, during the 48Hrs Tri-State run.
-Dave
Any how, sounds like the dealer was fair and even cut you a break when he couldn't offer much for your trade. Enjoy the car!
-juice
I'm glad you posted this info. I've been wondering whether or not 16" wheels could be mounted to the '05 OBXT, and haven't found any documentation to answer this. I know 16's won't clear the big brakes on the '05 Legacy GT, but I know the OBXT's brakes are somewhat smaller. This is good news.
Out of curiosity, do you happen to know if the offset of the OEM 16" wheels is any different from the stock 17" OBXT wheels? Also, what size Blizzaks are you putting on these the 16's?
TIA!
Rgds,
Tim G
'05 OBXTL-5MT
Out of curiosity where in the US are you located?
An H6 turbo would be nice, but I think you'll hear about it in Japan well in advance of hitting the US.
Ken
Please keep us in the loop on how you like the P-Zeros. They're on my short list for replacement tires after I wear through the stockers.
Ken
certainly will...
I might be running on them at the Nasa-X this Sunday
-Dave
WA state, in the Peninsula area.
Question to the board:
When you people talk about the invoice.
(I'm looking at the big detail and price of the car, sticker like that's on the window)
Is the Standard Vehicle Price (MSRP) on top is the invoice price? Because on the bottom of the sheet is the "Total Suggested Retail Price" and that can't be the invoice. Unless the invoice in not shown on that window list that you people talk about.
Want to make sure that my dealer is nice as he look or did i get trick. Please teach me. Thanks
Invoice Scams and Sudden Extras -- The Game is Changing
The brakes on the OB XT are identical to the brakes on the base Outback, so the 16" wheels should fit just fine (I haven't put the snow tires and wheels on yet). As for the offset, I don't know if it's identical to that of the 17", but given that those 16" wheels are on the base Outback, which has the same wheel well structure as my XT, I don't foresee any problems. I'll be putting 225-60 16 Blizzaks on the wheels, which is the same tire size that comes on the base Outback. That tire size provides a virtually identical diameter to our 225-55 17 tires on the XT.
Doug
keep us in the loop on these new & exciting vehicles. I am hoping to have a maximum Subaru Bucks of $2,000 ready in a couple years.
Any word on the Baja?
John
I hadn't really thought about the RE-92s being in a different tire category on Tirerack. The Turanzas got a lot of positive comments with regard to their handling (including from some WRX owners), so I'm not terribly concerned though. Given how people (and Car and Driver) have complained about the RE-92s, I figured the Turanzas are likely better, despite being in a different category.
The fact that there's a Firestone shop a few blocks from my office in downtown Portland makes the Turanzas a low-hassle choice, too. I'll be getting my Blizzaks there as well (cheaper than Tire Rack, when shipping costs are considered).
I also hadn't noticed until you pointed it out that Bridgestone was now marketing them under the Bridgestone label rather than their Firestone label. Makes sense though, I think.
Doug
regards,
kyfdx
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As mentioned before, invoice price is not advertised on the vehicle directly. Invoice price reflects the dealer's cost to buy the car from Subaru plus a built in kick-back profit. MSRP then adds another layer of profit on top of invoice.
Here's a great site run by one of the salesmen at Carter Subaru in WA: http://www.cars101.com/
He discloses all invoice prices for all model Subarus.
Ken
Invoice (wholesale price) is a number that is usually 5-8% below the MSRP. The invoice will include a local advertising surcharge of $200-$400. The dealer actually pays the invoice price minus a "holdback" of 2-3% of the MSRP.
So if you can get the car at invoice, the dealer is still making over $400 on a car with a MSRP of $20000. The manufacturer sometimes will offer a "dealer incentive" which adds a little more to the dealer profit. Don't expect a manufacturer to offer a dealer incentive on any high demand vehicle. If the factory can't keep up with the orders, they have no reason to offer a dealer a sales incentive.
Be suspicious of any dealer who is willing to sell you a car under invoice. Remember, the dealer has to make a living, he has to pay for the building, utilities and salespeople. I figure the dealer has to get the "holdback" money just to stay in business. But if you catch a salesman in any false statement run, don't walk, to the door (but make sure you get the keys for your potential trade-in back- a common trick is to hold onto your keys until he has lost all hope of selling you a car).
Jim
That allows for smooth stops, but the pedal feel can seem a bit mushy to someone not used to it.
-juice
I've also seen the tests indicating a longer than average braking distance for the 2005 Outback. In my own experience -- though I've never had the need for any emergency braking -- I so far see no reason to be concerned about the performance of the Outback brakes.
This, of course, is an entirely subjective opinion, not based on any scientific testing.
Tom C.