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Lexus GS 300/GS 430



  • adb3adb3 Posts: 112
    LoL! As always, how you view these reviews depends on your personal preferences. Bottom line, it's the mainstream consumer that will be the ultimate judge, not folks that post on this board. Reminds me of the debate between the RX330 and the FX45/35 when they were introduced in '04. Sport versus luxury and refinement. Both were and are superior vehicles but the mainstream consumer chose luxury and refinement over sport and thus the 330 became a runaway success (Toyota seems to have a knack for this). Similar scenario this year and it will be interesting to observe how it all plays out. I don't see a real loser in the top 5. But of course I've already voted let the debate continue.
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    review of the RL, M and GS is a joke. They trash their criteria by naming a "winner" that didn't win anything they reported on as an objective test. If the GS430 is the best, then Edmunds should back that up with a solid list of objective performance measurements and/or clearly delineated subjective reasons for their choices one over the other. The "comparison over a week" is a total joke as written. Edmunds needs to do a MUCH better job before handing out "winners".
  • kfhmailkfhmail Posts: 199
    I have a 1992 Diamante...Great Car...too bad Mitsu gave up on this car.

    I agree there is not enough head room in the 300 if you are over 6 feet (I am 6' 1")
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Sure, the RX is a more mainstream car. However, put one up against an X5 4.6is, a Cayenne Turbo, and an FX45 in a SPORT x-over SUV comparison test, and its going to get crushed, and literally laughed at by the competition. While the difference between GS and M arent nearly as extreme as RX vs. FX, the GS should NOT have won because its cushy and grandma can use the controls.

    Come to think of it, the M should not have lost to the RL either. This wasnt "best value" comparison test, nor was it "user friendly and sexy materials" test. It was the supposedly sport test, and the sports car got last place.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    Edmunds' conclusion doesn't surprise me a bit. Lexus has that indescribable quality--REFINEMENT--that trumps the raw acceleration of the M45 and the techno wizardry of the RL. Add to that refinement such qualities as elegance and sophistication and you've got first place.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    I just wonder why they opted to test a fully-loaded Lexus (with all the goodies they love) against the sporty M45. If they had gone the luxury route on the M45 (they had almost $10K leftover) the results might have been different - let's compare apples to apples. If I was going to give Lexus $60K right now a better comparo would have been the GS 430 vs. the LS 430. Both have similiar "sporty" drives and luxury tilts.

    What I really want is a comparison between the GS300, M35 (both loaded) and the Acura. When you equip the Lexus and Infiniti like the Acura, their prices are fairly close - come on Edmunds, time for another test.

    Interesting to note that 0-60 in the GS took 6.4 (Lexus claimed 5.7) and 1/4 mile took 14.9 (Lexus claimed 14.2). Wonder what the actual times for the GS 300 will be - Lexus claims 6.8 and 15.4. Probably closer to 7.5 and 16.0 - close to last year's model
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    They could have tested an M45 Sport with all the options, I'd have rather seen that than the M45 with all the options.

    I personally dont really put much faith in comparo results, especially when they are as haphazardly constructed as this one seems to be... one AWD car, two RWD, one V6, two V8s, one a Sport variant, one spartanly equipped, one somewhat equipped, and one dripping with luxurious exceess, ETC....

    However, I thought it interesting nonetheless, and wanted to point that some of the criticisms of this vehicle, as opposed to the opinions presented here.... may not be as all-encompassing as believed...

  • jim20jim20 Posts: 10
    I have driven the RL and the M45 Sport and don't agree with Edmunds' score. My impression was that the M45 was far superior to the RL in just about every category - better fit & finish, better engine, quicker handling (even though the RL was very quick), better interior (subjective), better leg room,...I could go on. These two cars are not in the same class. I look forward to testing the GS 430 to see where it fits in.
  • rboyd4rboyd4 Posts: 23
    I agree. I made similar comments on another forum. It seems the Edmunds writers tested the wrong model M for their luxury leaning preferences. The should have test the softer suspensioned base model M45 with the more refined "standard" rosewood interior (no aluminum). The base model M45 would still have won all of the performance/fun to drive measures but ridden a little more smoothly (also less expensive than the M45 Sport further widening the price advantage over the GS430). Throw in comparable options to the Lexus as tested (navi, upgraded sound system, etc) and an optioned out M45 base model would probably had won at $5K less. I have creedance for this conclusion as the Infiniti only lost by 4 points- Edmunds indicated the Infiniti M45 sport was a little too sharp edged (solution- drop the sport tuned suspension) and not quite as refined (solution- go to the more luxurious but less sporty rosewood interior and crank in more options).

    The bottom line is there is another competitor on the block. For years the GS was the only RWD luxury sport sedan competitor from Japan. Now Infiniti has entered the picture. Competition is good for all consumers- better cars, lower prices. I am sure that the GS will outsell the Infiniti or the Acura regardless of performance results. Lexus has built up too much brand equity over the last 15 years not to dominate sales. However, Infiniti is clearly catching up. The Europeans had better step up- higher prices, lower quality, rapidly narrowing performance gaps (if any remain) over the Japanese.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "I am sure that the GS will outsell the Infiniti or the Acura regardless of performance results. Lexus has built up too much brand equity over the last 15 years not to dominate sales."

    Thats not true. Just because a car has the L on the front, that doesnt automatically equal great sales. If you take away Lexus' SUVs, its "luxury sales leader" position turns to a very different picture. The G35 and Acura TL DOMINATE the IS300 in sales.
  • boomsamaboomsama Posts: 362
    The GS may have not been the best at anything, but edmunds is probably judging the winner on how the car makes you feel.

    Don't forget, they had these cars for a week, so the GS may be the easiest to live with for a time period longer than a test drive.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    In my opinion, if you want quality materials and a luxurious and reasonably agile ride, the LS is for you. If you want muscle and handling, its all M45. I think once the next LS hits, people will quickly forget the GS. Just like last time.
  • I don't think so. Lexus has something in the oven for the GS. We'll find out soon enough.

    Before the LS hits.

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,328
    How the car makes you feel? One "minor" thing bothered many testers about the GS-the brakes stink!! "Stopping this car smoothly was near impossible." The best Edmunds could say was a few of the testers learned to adjust to the brakes. Others could not. How they rated this car first is beyond me.
  • The E-Class has crappy brakes too.

    The 5 has a cheap and cheezy interior.

    Everyone has warts.

    Everyone sweats.

    It's just when a Lexus sweats, it's glistens!

  • adb3adb3 Posts: 112
    Boy, this is fun! Can't wait to the see the reaction as other reviews start rolling in. Take a deep breath and count to to's not that serious.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I agree. All the cars in this segment are so nice that there really is no clear winner. It depends on what you value in a car. Edmunds obviously values luxury over sport in this segment, seeing as how the GS placed first even though it ranked last in sport and they hated the intrusiveness and unturnoffability of VDIM. Nothing wrong with that.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    My main gripe with the comparo is that I wish they would have tested an M45 non-Sport with the Journey and Tech packages, and it would have been more apples to apples. Then the M would have at least tied the GS in features and luxury content and still hold the edge in value.

    When you're going to place emphasis on luxury, comfort and features over sport, the cards are already stacked against the M when they're going to test a base, no option Sport version, whereas the GS is a fully loaded version.

    But then again, the fault may lie with Infiniti for not providing a loaded M45.
  • Infiniti drops the ball.

    First time for everything! LOL!

    They apparently thought a sported-up M would impress the judges with it's moxie, and they were right.

    But Lexus attention to detail is something you can't dispute. And the VDIM seems to do it's job of enhancing the cars feel, while protecting you. But up to a point. Then it overprotects.

    The V6 M would've beat the GS300, though.

    The M would still be ugly, but I like the interior a lot. They are right, the dash has a little too much Nissan Quest in it.

    I like the embroidered seats. I guess that makes me tacky.

    I thought I was getting better.

  • oldjackoldjack Posts: 7
    I had intended to replace my '98 GS300 with the new '06 model, but I have opted for the Avalon. Admitedly, the Avalon is no sport sedan, but it is more powerful and far roomier than the GS, and comes with a full-size spare on an alloy wheel. Compare the prices of comparably equipped, well optioned models and you will find a price difference of nearly $14,000.

    Granted, the GS has a few more luxury features, but not that many.

    I test drove both cars on the same day, and for the kind of driving I do 95% of the time, the Avalon Limited is every bit as good as the GS.

    Oh yeah, also check out the cost for routine maintenance on each!
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I think the fault is more with Edmunds than Infiniti.

    This from another poster:

    The title of the article clearly says '2005-2006 $50K Sport Sedans From Japan Comparison Test' which would lead you to believe the emphasis would be on sport.

    No mistake, all three cars are packed with luxury as well but that should not be as heavily weighted if you're going to name the title as above.

    It appears that this is what went wrong.

    1. Edmunds asks Infiniti for a car to do a $50k sports sedan comparison.

    2. Infiniti obliges and gives them the best configuration to fit the bill - M45 Sport at $50k (stripped of all options to not be penalized for exceeding the price limit).

    3. Midway through the comparison, Edmunds decides to change it to a luxury comparison, but doesn't notify Infiniti and forgets to change the title of their review.

    4. Infiniti gets screwed over.

    From the outcome of this review, it looks like they wanted more luxury than sport.

    Had Infiniti known this earlier, they would've sent the non-Sport and optioned it out with the proper packages to include the oh-so-important wood trim, NAV/XM, and compliant suspension, and won the comparo.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    GS300/430 are now up and running, in great detail, on the Lexus web site.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Yep, I agree totally. A car with grabby brakes that cant win any performance test catergory and has an undefeatable nanny system would NEVER win a comparison in C&D, R&T, or Motortrend.
  • gs450gs450 Posts: 10
    im confused whether im in the infiniti m45 forum or the GS forum, since all of you seem to be crying over the fact that the lexus beat the infiniti in the comparison test. I can understand everyone complaining about the GS 300 not being up to par, but stop complaining about the 430 because the whole "it's not sporty enough" argument doesn't really apply to the 430 which is a perfect balance of sport and luxury which is why it beat the infiniti.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Thats just it. Its not the perfect balance. When you are ranked dead last in fun to drive, behind even the RL, you clearly did not bring enough sport to the table.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    Well obviously, but does Lexus really need to? I seriously doubt that everyone drives their car like that every day. Edmunds liked the fact that the GS would be drivable by people other than us sport freaks. Anyway, the thing was virtually a tie. I would've placed the GS and M in a tie for first, and put the Acura behind. But only if the M had no Sport package.

    I would really like to see a comparo of ALL of these midsize sport/luxo sedans. Because I would still take an STS over an RL (and maybe M). Now I need an excuse to test drive all of them....
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    ...why a Cadillac? That seems to be like maybe a 5th or 6th place car at best.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,328
    Oh yeah?-you define sport as taking a curve fast and having the car shut down? Puleeze! Looks like Lexus will never get the sport component right.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,328
    If the outward appearance of the GS says "sport" but turns itself off when you attempt an "exciting" curve, then there is no justification for its existence. They already have the LS which also disengages when cornering too fast.
    The GS in sales existence for only a few days sadly has already become a dinosaur.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,328
    Perfect balance? Over-sensitive brakes(from Edmunds review) and permanent stability control-both of which throw ice water on what should be a thrilling sports sedan experience. Where did I read the GS 430 was aimed squarely at the BMW 530i? To be fair, I have not driven this vehicle, but if Edmunds is to be believed, Lexus completely missed the mark with their professed "new direction" for the GS.
  • This "shut down" corner was rather slow, not a 60 MPH sweeper.

    Without a dedicated Sport Pkg., the Lexus did match the M at the Slalom.

  • kfhmailkfhmail Posts: 199
    Have you guys checked out the Lexus site for the GS 300?

    Pricing out the options...the only way to get the Nav system is with the ML sound system...and...this option costs about $4500 more than the other options.

    Basically options are $1900 or $6400.

    It appears you cannot get the Nav without the ML.

    This probably marks the GS 300 off my list.

    $4500 more to get the option with the Nav and not enough headroom for someone over 6 foot tall.

    Now it is between the M35 and the RL for me.
  • rtcagertcage Posts: 9
    Nobody makes cars for people who sit and obsess about cars on chatrooms.

    I have enjoyed watching the rebirth of Acura and Infiniti, but the fact is, they are going to have to keep this up for a while before they deserve the same credibility that Lexus has established. Lexus has a fit, finish and feel that is currently unmatched. Sure, Infiniti and Acura can pad their stats however they want, but nothing beats track record and feel behind the wheel. If Infiniti and Acura keep this up for another 10 years I MIGHT buy one. Until then I'm sticking with a proven winner.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    What a ridiculously immature title.

    Anyways, the GS430 won ONE INTERNET comparo, barely...
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    Question: If you had $45,000 and wanted to spend it on a Lexus, would you buy a new GS300 or a certified 2001-2003 Lexus LS430?
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Depends on what you need. The better car is the LS, that's a no-brainer, but would you feel satisfied driving a big or a mid-sized sedan ?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Thats mostly why I'm largely disappointed with the GS. Lexus didnt say "we're targeting the E500 and the mainstream mid-lux segment" they said, "we want BMW". Infiniti actually pulled that off. Lexus didnt come close. I remember reading a few years back in a magazine preview about how the VDIM system was supposed to be LESS intrusive than the old VDC system, and allow for more driving involvement. Hardly.
  • The Infiniti is rather ugly.

    Edmunds seemed to like VDIM, but it also can turn into the Butler who doesn't know when to stop.

  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    Yes, according to you, the M is ugly. We get it. You've already posted that literally ten times now.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,328
    Yup. When Lexus stated months ago that they were going in a new direction with the GS being the first example and they were targeting BMW, I couldn't wait for this car to come out. Seems like most reviews of people who have driven the car are negative. Even Edmunds damned it with faint praise -edging out the M in its comparo-yet criticizing it for overly sensitive brakes; a stability system that can't be turned off.
    There really is no reason for this car's existence. It cannot compete in the sports sedan category. It's proponents emphasize its "refinement." Yeah. But what else is there?
    Been there. Done that. New direction? Humbug!!
  • kmg68kmg68 Posts: 108
    I am still in the process of trying to decide between the M35 and the GS300. As many of you have noted, I like the interior and luxury of the GS however I like the additional horsepower and sportiness of the M. Can anyone tell me what they paid for a GS300 with navigation and ML. Is Lexus charging full MSRP? Also, does anyone know when the invoice pricing will be posted on Edmunds? I would just like to compare apples to apples. I realize that both the M and G are selling close to or at MSRP, so I will probably wait 3-6 months to buy.....
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    As far as I know, both the M and GS are selling at MSRP, although there are scattered reports of people getting discounts. Both cars are now configurable on their respective websites, BTW.
  • kmg68kmg68 Posts: 108
    Still can't find the invoice price though for GS.....
  • I would buy a pre owned GS430 2004 model with less than 10K miles on it. I think a new GS300 has poor price performance. Second choice would be the LS430 if you want complete, but conservative luxury.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Why not save another 10-15 grand and buy a 2001? There's absolutely NO difference between the '01-05 car.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    Thanks for all the suggestions. Whoever came up with certified warranties was a marketing genius. Three years or 100,000 miles, plus Lexus reliability: very reassuring for used car buyers.
  • 00boxsters00boxsters Posts: 202
    I cannot believe that Lexus lists the front headroom in the 2006 GS to be more than 1/2" Greater than in the 2005 LS!

    GS = 38.8 inches
    LS = 38.1 inches

    Any way I adjusted the seat in the GS, there is much less headroom. Truly incredible.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    "There's absolutely NO difference between the '01-05 car."

    Must disagree. The '04/'05 LS430 have the 6-speed tranny, Bluetooth, PCS, Rear camera, radar-cruise, pre-wired XM, no LEXUS link, upgraded Nav (gen-4), standard 18" wheels, slightly better ride and handling even in base trim, than the '01.

    Even more significant change from '01 to '04 lies in the exterior - slightly changed front and exposed rear tail pipes...

    The question is if all of these additional features and changes are worth the extra $10K to the buyer! IMO, I'll take the '04/'05 over the '01 anyday... Even better, I'll take the MY2007 over any LS, period.
  • 00boxsters00boxsters Posts: 202
    I believe he was talking about a GS not an LS. "Nevermind"

    Also, the 17" tires/wheels are still standard on the LS but are hard to get as most still come with the optional 18" variety.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594

    My bad. Note to self: use reading glasses next time.
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