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Lexus GS 300/GS 430

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Comments

  • 2lowkey2lowkey Posts: 2
    If anyone didn't notice why is that the more horsepower a car offers the lower the gear ratio? Is this to compensate for gas mileage? In edmunds reviews the Lexus was a half second slower than the M in the quarter mile. considering the lexus is 35 hp lesser. but offers a .41 higher gear ratio. If the Lexus came all wheel drive and a bigger tire and rim diameter as of the M could it have been the fastest of the bunch? What do you think.
  • bsc1bsc1 Posts: 32
    I've narrowed my choices down to 4 cars- GS300, Audi A6, Acura RL, and Infiniti M35x. I like them all, but do favor the Audi and Infiniti steering- more of a sporty feel (stiffer steering). I have a 2002 GS now and I'd probably be able to get a better deal leasing another Lexus, but I'm torn. Give me some opinions -PLEASE.
  • jones5jones5 Posts: 8
    If you're lookin for straight luxury and don't really care too much bout the performance part..I say go Lexus :). If you're lookin for a combination of both...Then I say Infiniti...The RL is good too, but I'm not all that fond of Audi...I'd go for Lexus or Infiniti over RL though. I currently have a 2002 GS300, well my dad does...and we have a 2006 AWD GS300 coming in soon...I like the Lexus but it's a bit slow in acceleration so I'm hoping to see a bit of an improvement in the new one. The rest of the car is great
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    "I have no doubt the GS will be the 3rd best seller in this segment after the E and the 5."

    Bold vision my friend. Seriously though I think the Inifniti M will be the one taking the sales lead after the E and 5. Where do you see the RL, A6 and STS placing? The pie is being sliced to death here. The E and 5 are going to be the biggest sales losers.

    M
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I'm going to agree with Jones, I think the M is the strongest entry from Japan...and also probably the strongest car in the class, period. Its capable of coming with even more features than the RL... but nobody has a gun to your head forcing you to get the Premium package. With the RL, you dont really get a choice. The RL's performance also doesnt live up to its "300hp" with a 7 second+ 0-60, its heavy, smallish, and its AWD system is untested and could have problems.

    The A6 is ok, but I dont trust new model Audis. For example, problems from the final '01 Audi A4 to the new '02 Audi A4 absolutely skyrocketed, and like the RL, its not particularly fast. Leasing the A6 also apparently is extremely expensive.

    The GS has all of the traditional Lexus strengths, superb interior, materials, fit and finish, its quiet, and reliability will probably be highest in the segment. However, its just not as fun to drive as the other three. Also, the GS300 will become 350 in as little as a year, which wouldnt make me particularly excited about being a new 300 owner.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    The Infiniti M may very well take third place in sales. But plenty of people like refinement over sport even in this segment, and there is that Lexus name and top-notch dealer network. We'll see.

    Ahh, I forgot about the STS. STS will probably be the third best seller, on second thought. GS/M will be 4th/5th. A6 will be 6th, and RL will be 7th. The fact that there is only one $50k version of the RL will hurt its sales.
  • docnukemdocnukem Posts: 485
    The problem is "refinement over sport". In this price range, people looking for sport (IMO probably more knowledgeable about what is out there competing) will test drive the GS, M, 5-series, A6, and RL. Those looking for refinement might gravitate towards Lexus, but they might then simply then go with the ES (refinement on a budget) or LS (refinement with space and power). The AWD GS will catch some of these refinement-seekers in the snow belt, but I agree with many posters here--Lexus did not give people enough "sport" with the 300. The 430 starts getting close to the LS in price. If I wanted a Lexus because it is simply a Lexus and had the money for the GS430, I would look long and hard at the LS.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I agree. Lexus already has refinement over sport in both the midsize and full size classes. The GS, like the IS, must play in a segement where the sport really has to be there, and it would've been nice if there was a little more IS spirit in the new GS.
  • kmg68kmg68 Posts: 108
    "Those looking for refinement might gravitate towards Lexus, but they might then simply then go with the ES (refinement on a budget)"

    I think this may be especially true when the new redesigned Y2007 ES is released in March/April of next year.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Have to agree with you. Even Howard (hpowders) test of the GS430 was glowing. Right, Howard ? Methinks the new GS will fair quite well. It is a really beautiful design, understated and well done by Lexus. Sure it could use some improvements in some area - what car wouldn't ? But overall, a car that will sell well. On my dealer lot, most of the new GS carry the SOLD sign. My tester demo a couple of weeks ago now have SOLD pasted on it.

    Yeah, the GS are selling pretty well. I'll expect the same brisk selling for the M as well. Let's see what MY2007 brings for the GS - a GS450h that will be faster yet more fuel efficient than the GS430, and maybe a GS350... Who knows ??? Then what will Infiniti have to counter ? Maybe the Skyline GT-R ???
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Infiniti still has a lot left up its sleeve. They are working on a convertible version of the G35, and possibly even a wagon. The GT-R is rumored to hit in '07. Lexus wont have anything to counter that.. even if the LF-A gets the green light, it will probably cost double that of the GT-R.

    Lexus' plan of continual upgrades for the GS should really pay off for them though. Both the previous GS and IS were asked to run unchanged for years and years, and it just didnt work.
  • janeg2janeg2 Posts: 22
    I've been enjoying driving a GS300 since 1998, and have been looking at the new GS300, RL, M35, ES, RX, new Avalon, and BMW 5 series. I'm not "into" cars until I need one, so could you explain for me the possible appeal of the BMW, or lack thereof, in its newest form? What would it have that the new GS would not? I get the feeling (in these forums) that regarding reliability, this is not a good time for BMW or MBenz, comparing them to Lexus. Any advice is appreciated.
  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWPosts: 2,809
    Choosing to own a BMW is not about reliability per se. It is about the driving feel, "the ultimate driving machine". Reliability (of BMW's) is not bad, however, and it's status is part of the allure. Looks are in the eyes of the beholder.

    If "this is not a good time for BMW or MBenz" is true, it's more about the bad dollar/euro exchange rate than the appeal of the cars.
  • achadha1achadha1 Posts: 65
    Saw a brand spaking new GS300 AWD at the office parking lot. First time seeing the car upfront actually looked very elegant. You really have to see this car in person to adore its beauty. The color was very nice some kind of Ice White or so very nice. Interior materials looked very nice. Rear seats looked kinda of tight.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Most of the complaints against the new 5 stem from its looks, Active steering, and iDrive. Unfortunately, you can only avoid one of those. Reliability of the new 5 is definitely not good. CR recommended the last few years of the previous 5. The new car is not recommended, and has gotten the big black circle of "poor".

    The M35 has proven itself to be just as much as an "ultimate driving machine" as the BMW. The RL, and GS, while great cars, just cant play in that league. If you're looking for any fun, you should really cross the Avalon off your list.
  • There is a nice overview article on upcoming Lexus sedans in today's WSJ ... you may need subcription to view or find a paper copy today (B1).
     
    http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB111111298686583401,00.html?mod=pj%5Fautos%5Fhs%5Fcoll%5- - Fleft
  • janeg2janeg2 Posts: 22
    Thanks for the responses here. I did eliminate the Avalon after a drive yesterday. Really not in the same class, but boy does it have a nice trunk and back seat. I have had a deposit at my Lexus dealer for some time now, waiting for the 06 GS to arrive. Wouldn't you know they'd steal from the trunk opening, and back seat, where I already had issues in my 98 GS. This could have been so simple.

    The BMW has a nice trunk, but maybe this isn't a smart time to leave Lexus over such issues. Reliability ranks high for me. Still, I'm feeling very cheated by the new GS, in its new compact form. Like I'm being pushed out of the category because I'm too practical.

    Don't most people actually put big/dirty/bulky things in their trunks?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    Don't most people actually put big/dirty/bulky things in their trunks?

    Not in luxury cars. But this is nothing new. Folks have been getting gypped on space in the mid-size and compact luxury cars for years. The compact luxury cars are just plain impractical to own. Compare a 3-series or C-class to a Civic for space and you'll be surprised to note that the Civic is much more spacious (and practical). The mid-size luxury cars are barely better. The interiors of those things are jokes. I always knew the 5-series was miniscule inside, but it wasn't until a few months ago that I found out it is EPA classified as a COMPACT!!

    Anyway, on topic, Lexus really cheated the consumer with the new GS. Not only did they make the trunk opening smaller, but they also made the TRUNK smaller! The back seat was tight before and I think it's a little tighter now. In essence, to buy the new GS is to pay more for less.

    Now would be the time to get a sweet deal on an '05 GS430. You'll get more car for a lot less money. This new one looks too much like an Avalon, anyway.
  • janeg2janeg2 Posts: 22
    I did suggest that very thing to my husband this week, in desperation. He believes the 05 will too quickly lose its value, and then the technology is going to be really old in 4-6 more years while I'm still driving it. Meanwhile, cars in lower price brackets are starting to bring the technology into their new models.

    I hate that I'd be encouraging Toyota designers to continue more of the same bad behavior by buying their 06 GS, but its still high on my list. I guess I'm just not impressed enough with the present competition ( in areas that matter most to me) to switch brands just yet. Still stalling.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    I honestly don't think you could go wrong by switching brands and getting an Infiniti M.
  • 00boxsters00boxsters Posts: 202
    Test drive an LS430. It has all the pollish, reliability and engine that the GS430 has and a much bigger trunk and back seat. You can get it cheaper than a GS too.
  • jo2jo2 Posts: 41
    I am looking at both of these vehicles...Has anyone driven both?

    I know the GS has more gadgets but which one takes a corner better and performs better?

    jo2
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "which one takes a corner better and performs better?"

    530i, no question.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    "...which one takes a corner better and performs better?"

    If buying a car was all about these two criteria, then BMW should sell kadzillion cars... and be the undisputed mass-market automobile compnay in the world !

    Alas....

    Can you please come up with slightly MORE reasons for your car buying decision than cornering ? Performance is too broad a subject, do you mean handling, driveability, straightline speed, overall balance, drag-racing, slalom, 0-60s, 1/4-mile, etc... what ????
  • jo2jo2 Posts: 41
    Well I've got most of my questions by reviewing all of the posts on this site. But if you must know... I am currently driving an BMW X5 and BMW 330i - I am used to the ultimate driving machine drive.

    I am however a big gadget person - all of the new things in the GS intrigue me. Also, I hear that the GS was built with the 5 series as its benchmark.

    I drive a very winding canyon every day to work with lots of quick turns. Usually staying under 60mph but taking turns very fast. So my question remains - which takes a corner better?
  • How can the front passenger use the voice recognition system? Is there a button to press or is the microphone always on?

    Is there a list of voice commands?

    Which features of the NAV system can be operated while driving (Driver versus Passenger)?
  • Does anybody have the pdf owners manual?
  • Has anybody tried the Motorola V551 phone in the GS430?
  • jo2jo2 Posts: 41
    jrock65

    can you rate the handling on a scale of 1 to 10 of both cars?

    the bmw 530 and the lexus gs300....

    that would be very helpful....
    jo2
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The BMW 5 series might have been the original target for GS designers. But they missed. Badly. If you want a car that drives like a BMW, but has the gadgets THAT WORK like a Lexus, Infiniti has your number.
  • janeg2janeg2 Posts: 22
    While test driving the M35 I was very conscious of that growl the car makes when you accelerate. It kind of sounds like a souped up hot rod. Noisy, relative to every other car in this group. I really had come to expect quiet power in a car of that price. It gets up and goes, but why does it have to shout?

    Also, those orange backlit dials and buttons just didn't seem to belong in a luxury car. Not very refined at all. Maybe its just a guy thing and not intended to appeal to women.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "can you rate the handling on a scale of 1 to 10 of both cars?

    the bmw 530 and the lexus gs300....

    that would be very helpful.... "

    530i: 10
    M35: 9
    GS300: 7

    The handling of the GS was too light and boosted, and didn't feel as precise. Just my opinions, of course.
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    Jane:

    The M is tuned for sport not so much luxury, although it does have quite a nice luxury appointment. Besides the lighting of the gauge, the doors are tinny and poorly sound-proofed. It sure does get up and go, and drives with a lot more fun.

    The GS is the more matured and refined car, while the M is the pure sport player, with little frills. Your choice....
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    "I am used to the ultimate driving machine drive."

    Then you know the deal.

    "I am however a big gadget person - all of the new things in the GS intrigue me..."

    The GS is not that gadgety IMO. Many of its functions are hidden away for a clean, crisp look. But you'd find everything working flawlessly.

    "which takes a corner better?"

    I see a test drive in the cards for you.... The M45, GS430 and the 530i/545i. Should be fun around your neck of the woods.

    And I won't put much stock in other's grading either. Best you find out yourself, IMO.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Thats the Nissan VQ "signature". You'll find that pretty much every Nissan with that engine has a similar exhaust note. Its definitely not for everybody.
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    "Besides the lighting of the gauge, the doors are tinny and poorly sound-proofed. It sure does get up and go, and drives with a lot more fun."

    I wouldn't really agree with that. The doors are not tinny at all, and the soundproofing is fine. You do hear the exhaust, but that's not from poor sound proofing.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I'm not sure about the doors, I noted the same thing upon my first experience with the new M. It surely isn't as solid like the A6 or E-Class imo. The doors seemed very tinny to me.

    M
  • turnbowmturnbowm Posts: 76
    Totally agree with you about the light, over-boosted steering on the new GS300. Personally, I prefer the heavier Euro feel.

    Also agree with your numerical rating of the handling on the 530i and GS300. Have recently test-driven both on several occasions and, IMHO, the 530i was noticeably better.

    Perhaps the "perfect" car would be the BMW with Lexus quality/reliability!

    Martin T.
  • jo2jo2 Posts: 41
    jrock

    thanks for the rating it helps tremendously

    and thanks to all that posted to my question - really a great resource you guys...

    jo2

    jo2
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    "The doors seemed very tinny to me"

    And to me too. As I wrote in my test drive, turn on the radio, put in mid-level volume, step out of the car, close the door and you'll hear every single tune from outside. Very poor sound proofing. I don't think Infiniti spent any amount of time or money in this area. They'd rather put their time and money where it mattered (to them), the sportiness and performance areas. Can't say I blame them since they nailed both quite well.

    Overall, the M is a winner regardless. Just nit-picking on my part....
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    hm, maybe I'll have to check it out again. I didn't feel any noticeable difference with the GS door. German cars do seem to have a heavier feeling door. Now, at least with VW, I think the "sturdy door" feeling comes more from the "tightness" of the hinges, rather than the door being actually more solid.

    That's my feeling on the heavy door feeling, that it's mostly a factor of how "tight" or how "loose" the hinges are.

    One thing about the M, it's a bit too heavy IMO. If it shed about 200-300 pounds, that would be great. Lexus did a great job with the light weight of the GS.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well like Oac said, its really nit picking on my part too, but I was shocked by this. I guess since I'm a fan of German cars in the back of my mind I always look for this. To me its the way they "thunk" when closed, especially certain MB/Audi models.

    My problem with the M is that center console with all those white buttons and the lighting of them and the whole dash at night, but then again thats just me. I'd have to drive the car extensively to see if it has a weight issue, had never noticed that.

    M
  • kmg68kmg68 Posts: 108
    I also drove the Avalon, but it is just not what I want-too bland, although I think it is more powerful than the 06 GS which is disappointing. I really wanted the GS but may wait until the new ES comes out. The ES has never been a "sports" sedan, but I would bet that it will have the same 280hp engine that the current Avalon has and it will be roomier than the GS. If the body style doesn't change substantially then I may revert back to the GS or the M35. I really didn't want to wait until Spring of next year to buy, but am really debating......
  • kmg68kmg68 Posts: 108
    Personally, I think that the M35 takes corners better than a GS300-not sure about the GS430....
  • kmg68kmg68 Posts: 108
    "Maybe its just a guy thing and not intended to appeal to women."

    As a woman, I am not crazy about the lighting either but all things considered, that is the least of my concerns. I am still debating between the M35 and GS300-if they could combine the refinement of the Lexus with the the handling of the M35 I would have the perfect car!
  • janeg2janeg2 Posts: 22
    Now that would be something to get excited about!

    The quiet good manners of Lexus with the strengths of the M35 under the hood.

    Maybe in time for my next car, but sadly not this time around.
  • jo2jo2 Posts: 41
    I am curious too - I have a treo 650 - does anyone know of a list of phones that blue tooth compatible with the new lexus GS 300/400?
  • oacoac Posts: 1,594
    "The quiet good manners of Lexus with the strengths of the M35 under the hood"

    That would be either the 2007 GS350 coming to a dealership near you in 18 months, OR the 2007 GS450h arriving next spring. Give or take, a year or so from now, you will get a very unique (hybrid 3.5L motor), powerful (300+ hp), fuel efficient (27+mpg), refined (solid build, quiet, etc) GS with class-leading HP and torque. Cannot get any better in this class, IMO.

    But, if you cannot wait a year for this car, I'd say get the M35 and see if the '07 GS meets the need and then trade-up for it. Won't hurt your wallet more than a few nickels !!
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    The GS350 will no doubt be a big improvement in the power department, but I'm not sure that Lexus will tighten up the handling any. I wish they would though.
  • This site is your best bet. It allows you to put in your zip code for the 2006 GS and see what phone and service are compatible in your geography. Infortunately, the Treo 650 is not on the list. I know a friend who has been using his Cingular/Treo 650 on an RX 330. He has been able to use some of the features, but not all. Apparently, there are still more bugs to be worked out.

    lexus.letstalk.com
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