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Lexus GS 300/GS 430



  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    There are A LOT of cars that cost around $40K, but that doesnt mean that people will necessarily cross shop them. I dont think a 330i and GS300 is really the same buyer. If the BMW guy went to a Lexus dealer at all, it would be for the IS350.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,328
    I don't know about that. I am a BMW guy who has no interest in the IS350. I was more impressed by the new GS430.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    What Im saying is though, would you really cross shop a GS with a 3 series?
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,328
    You know what? The inside of the GS is so tight, I thought I was in a 3 series! Believe it or not, the 3 series trunk is more practical than the GS' and that's hard to do!
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    FYI. Compared closely equipped GS300 and M35 (no navigation)

    GS300 with Destination charge + Preferred Accessory Package + Moon Roof + Sun Shade + Ventilated Seats + Rear Spoiler + Rain-sensing Wipers = $45,879 retail and $40,226 invoice.
    Profit of $5653 or 14.1%

    M35 with Destination charge + Journey Package = $43,300 retail and $39,656 invoice.
    Profit of $3644 or 9.2%

    In my next life, I want to be a Lexus dealer.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Im sure most dealers want to be Lexus dealers. If I remember correctly, they are the richest dealers in the country.
  • chris65amgchris65amg Posts: 372
    Im sure most dealers want to be Lexus dealers. If I remember correctly, they are the richest dealers in the country.

    What about them Bentley dealers? >.< just playin
  • mechrad1mechrad1 Posts: 26
    I had the pleasure of driving a gs300 awd. What a beautiful car and smooth ride. Using the button that switches to power mode the car had decent pick up. I would have bought it, but knowing a larger engine is coming will make me wait, as that car would be the perfect vehicle. Sadly I will have to wait for the gs 350. I bet it will be worth the wait. Any good guesses on how long my wait will be.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The '07 car will probably be GS350 and GS460. Lexus withheld the 3.5L for the US GS for either 1. because of the 430 engine or 2. they wanted more time to tweak it for US use, or both.
  • gscoupegscoupe Posts: 30
    Before that, GS450h hybrid will be available May 06. I 'm really interested to see the specs. of that car.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    You and me both. Will it debut before the GS350 with the bigger six?
  • That's why it didn't launch with the vehicle.

    If they can build and sell 100k (potential) Avalons, they can pump out another 20k 3.5 for the more profitable GS.

    So the 3.5 will be more potent than it is right now.

    And I doubt there will be any difference between the 3.5 in the GS and the one put into the IS350.

    The way Lexus is handling this lends great credence to a 300HP 3.5.

    Along with there quotes of future higher performance models in the pipeline.

    I would've waited 'til Spring 2006 to release the GS, after the IS got off to a good start.

  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Actually it looks like the new 350 engine is going to be their bread and butter engine (like the Infiniti 350 enging in the FX, G, M and a host of Nissan products). The engine is slated to go into the IS350 this year, a redesigned ES350 in about a year, and the RX350 and GS350 next September. Probably in a few Toyotas as well. I've seen claims of 300 hp+ - have to actually see that first.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Nissan has already hit 300 with their 3.5L in the 350Z 35th Anniv. car (and the G35 6MT is short only 2 ponies) and of course Honda has 300 with theirs. If Toyota manages to push past 300, that will certainly be quite a sight, as traditionally Toyota has been content to let Honda and Nissan have their little "war" and stay out of it. It seems like its a "world war" now though, with 250hp being barely enough to enter the club.

    As the 6s near and hit 300+, it also means the 8s are going to have to keep gaining power as well. Mercedes replacement for their 3-valve SOHC 5.0L V8 should be quite an engine, considering how much power the new 350 engine has over the old 320.
  • mechrad1mechrad1 Posts: 26
    I went back to lexus to drive the 430. Very nice and powerful. At these prices I see no reason to purchase when such a powerful 350 is coming out in a year. Combined with the awd I think we will have a winner. Love the feel of the lexus, much better than the M. The best part is that there is no huge button to control things. I hate that thing in the rl and m

  • donbldonbl Posts: 42
    Stopped by the Lexus dealer today to see the new GS as I lust after a V8 like the one I have.....

    The GS look just did not do it for me. Nicely put together but does not look like $50K and looks "bulky".

    Maybe, it is because of the sculpted trend that is prevalent today in other high end cars.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Yeah I was rather surprised to see Acura go that way with the RL. They've always used touch screen systems very similar to Lexus, and I've never had a problem with that approach.
  • pearlpearl Posts: 336
    Amen. Having driven the M35, M45, GS300 and GS430, my condensed comments would be: M's win hands down in any performance category. Lexus has basically handed those categories over to Infiniti. Interior room is also a clear "win" for Infiniti. External styling is subjective, but I give the "win" to Lexus. Quietness goes to Lexus, but Infiniti is not bad in the non- performance models.
  • I have emailed 5 Lexus dealers this week for price on GS300 06....3 want list price, 1 quoted me $1500 off a $51,000 sticker..Live in Wash, DC area..do you think price will soften next month.I would like to buy by May 1..thanks...
  • 00boxsters00boxsters Posts: 202
    You are unlikely to do better than $1500 below sticker over the next month. Other than the new GS realing bombing in a major auto mag. comparison, I'd be happy with that discount.
  • shs111shs111 Posts: 39
    Saw the 2006 GS in a showroom this morning. Great lines, very handsome car, really liked the clean, uncluttered dash and controls. BUT when they opened the trunk, I could not believe the poor design. The trunk access is really bad. I realize they had to do this to accomodate the sweeping rear window, but I can't imagine trying to load anything in and out of that trunk. Others?
  • founderfounder Posts: 48
    I guess if you're a woman or a man under 5'9, then the new GS is probably for you. My wife and I went in to test drive the car, cause she really likes it, and we're looking to get two new cars before summer. We're going to get a SUV, which we're leaning towards the Denali. but we also need a comfortable family sedan. At any rate I was horrofied how cramped the quarters were in the GS. This car was not comfortable to me at all. I felt boxed in. I'm sure it's a fine automoble, and quite reliable, but i'm going to pass. It looked a lot bigger on tv and in magazines. The M45 looks great, but Infiniti hasn't proven that their products are worth the money they are going after. A loaded m45 for 60 grand??
  • boomsamaboomsama Posts: 362
    Finally saw the 06 GS at the motor show.The GS300 with the stock 17" wheels doesn't look as bad as it does in the photos (the GS overall looked much better in person). Looks a lot smaller as well. Car was locked and all and I asked one of the lexus guys if he could open it for a sit, and the his response was "Are you going to buy the car?" I wasn't so happy afterwards. Anyway, someone apparently stole the gearshift nob. Didn't get a chance to sit in it
  • carnaughtcarnaught Desert SWPosts: 3,071
    "...but Infiniti hasn't proven their products are worth the money they are going after."

    Hmmm...well, look at the resales on the G35's and FX models. They are holding well. BTW, who has "proven" their products are worth the money?
  • mg808mg808 Posts: 22
    I think the overall opinion is that Infiniti is 3rd rate in the Japanese luxury arena. Sure the GS & FX have good resale value, but you are talking about a 2003, 2004 model. Not a 2001/2002 Q45 that loses 60% its value in 3 years. That's the problem with buying a $60K Infiniti. You can't get a good resale compared to Lexus or Acura.

    Also, every car review of the Infiniti G35 mentions the one thing all near-luxury cars hate to hear....cheap plastic. There's better plastic on fisher-price toys...Infiniti is on the right track but has a few more years to go.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Infiniti resale is measured in "pre-Ghosn" and "post-Ghosn" The pre cars, Q, I, the old M, tank. The new ones, G, FX, have as strong or stronger than Acura residual, and the M should be no different. Its not the same company it was before Ghosn took over.
  • mariner7mariner7 Posts: 509
    When Altima came out, no one gave it a chance against all powerful Camry & Accord, last I heard it has the top residual in its class. I heard the same thing about G35, top residual in its class! The forums seem to indicate M is the one commanding MSRP, not GS or RL, so it won't surprise me a bit if M ends up having the top residual of these three.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Infiniti's leasing branch has a 61% residual for 36 months, 60% for 39 months for the M35. I'm not sure that the Lexus and Acura have better values - maybe worse.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Thats another Nissan product now that is several years into its cycle and continues to do very strongly. Accord sales on the other hand continue to slide.
  • londontlondont Posts: 2
    I had the chance to test drive both these cars the other day. Liked the gadgetry of the GS, but the back seat is terrible -- no room for a normal adult. Didn't like the ride either. I tried the AWD version. Engine noisy, ride bumpy.
    The M35 is gorgeous inside, roomy back seat, although not like the 05 Avalon. I'm currently in a 2001 Avalon, but wouldn't buy the 05 version, since it doesn't resemble a luxury car like my "old" one does. They've cheapened the car in the way it is finished.
    The M35 rode very nicely, lots of power, and very comfortable. I tried the M35AWD version. It's an expensive car, and I wonder what other people say about it. At the moment, it's my number 1 choice, and ..get this . . my wife's number 1 choice, too.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    If you want a car that drives more like an Avalon than an M35, what do you think of the ES330?
  • kmg68kmg68 Posts: 108
    Dealerships in Atlanta are not budging much from MSRP on the GS300, the Acura RL or the M35. Costco's auto buying program has allowed some people to purchase the M35 at $2500 above invoice. Has anyone tried the Costco program to purchase a GS300?
  • kmg68kmg68 Posts: 108
    Check out the discussion board on the M35-people have alot of great things to say. I was set on getting the new GS300, however after reading the discussion board on the M, I am now feeling torn.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Its basically the Japanese version of E vs. 5. Each has its own strengths, you just have to figure out which appeals more.
  • drtraveldrtravel Posts: 395
    Anyone have any indication as to how this car is actually selling? Seems that there is ample supply at a couple of dealers I checked.
  • founderfounder Posts: 48
    I'm sorry that you don't agree, and the FX and Gseries may have good resale value, but an Infiniti does not has the prestigiousness that say BMW, Mercedes and even lexus has. Don't get me wrong Nissan are good enough products, but their interior materials are cheap looking. The new M series cars look great and I like them,and I would want the V8 m45, but not at 60 grand. I also came quite close to buying the new QX56 truck and I'm glad i held off cause that truck has a host of mechanical issues, also Infiniti could've gave the truck a different interior dash then its cheaper Armada twin much like Ford did with the Navigator over its Expedition twin. I just don't see the need for these higher then expected prices. Infiniti needs to build up to the level that is Benz or BMW.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    "Infiniti does not has the prestigiousness that say BMW, Mercedes and even lexus has."

    Definitely not. Infiniti as a brand has only been making real product for about 3 years, and thats not enough time to even get close to the level of cachet of BMW or Mercedes. The Infiniti name itself still doesnt mean much of anything to anyone yet, but if Infiniti can keep producing very strong cars, eventually, it will.
  • In Black, it looks like a Maxima (Very Good in other colors). People are consistently saying the interior is too small, trunk too small, engines too small, only very slightly more agile, ride quality questions, NO STICK.

    Looks like the IS will not face such problems getting accepted.

    It looks like this large sports sedan idea maybe over Toyota's head.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The other stuff yes, but are you seriously surprised there's no manual transmission? In its 13 year history, the GS has NEVER had a manual. Why would they start now, when even the Europeans are starting to drop them? I'm pretty sure the new A6 is AT only, right?
  • adb3adb3 Posts: 112
    I'm trying to understand some of the recent comments on this board. I understand if you don't like the GS. That's ok, everyone has different tastes. I'm not a fan of the 5-series, E-series, Ms, RL, etc. Don't get me wrong, I'm convinced they all are well made cars and I certainly understand the attraction others may have to them, but they're not for me. Plain and simple, for me it's Lexus and since we're on the GS board, in particular it's the GS.

    Now, I'm not trying to convince anyone else about the GS, but seems like some posters are trying to convince me of its not so virtuous attributes. Well folks, too late! And you would have been wasting your time anyway. I picked up my GS430 last week and its absolutely everything I thought it would be and it is the only car I could even imagine spending my 60K on. Is it perfect? No. But give me and others some credit, I don't plunk down that kind of change without knowing exactly what I'm getting. And what I got is a refined, elegantly understated, smooth as silk, luxury sport sedan with enough grunt to fulfill my occasional need for speed. And lest I short-shrift one of the most important attributes, I know this baby will be there when I need her, not sitting in the dealer's garage for yet another repair.

    And oh yea, what's the big beef? And what are some of the reviews saying? Well, there are a few out there and I have yet to see one that's even close to bad. In fact, there are a couple that are down right glowing, but of course some would dismiss those out of hand as not being very thorough, similar to the edmunds review. Well, at the end of the day it doesn't matter anyway. The real tale of the tape will be measured against the consumer. I say the GS is a winner and as evidenced at my dealer, they can't keep 'em on the lot. Some of you here obviously think it's a dud. The good thing is, it will not take long to find out. Hmm... seems like I had this same discussion a couple of years back about the RX and FX...turned out to be no contest. We'll see.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The GS is definitely not a bad car. The problem I have with it is that much like Bob Lutz, Danny Clements seems to be a bit obsessed with BMW. The GS is great at all of the traditional Lexus values, but the car is not a 5 series fighter, and thats what Lexus was saying it was going to be.
  • adb3adb3 Posts: 112
    Heh, I'll leave it corporate to fight out that game if that's what they want. If I wanted a Bimmer, I would have bought a Bimmer. Lexus isn't or should ever try to be a Bimmer, Merc, M or anything else. Don't get me wrong, I cherish the improvements in the car, but the allure for many to Lexus is that it is a Lexus. Lexus doesn't need to out bimmer Bimmer to be successful, it just needs to update its product strategy (which I believe they are addressing). The 2nd GS was/is a solid car that grew too long in the tooth. In today's market that just won't cut it. You need to keep being the next new "thang" if you want to keep your product line vibrant. The typical consumer's attention span nowadays is very short.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    You make some good points. If they hadnt been so "we're taking on BMW" I probably wouldnt have been nearly as disappointed with the car as I am. Lexus has some troubles though, and while letting the GS run for 7 years didnt help, the car was never really what it needed to be. Nor was the IS300. Lexus is still learning how to make cars like that. I think the IS350 though will be a superior effort.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,328
    The big beef is if you go away or play golf, getting suitcases and golf clubs in the narrow-mouthed trunk of the GS is awkward and very inconvenient.
  • adb3adb3 Posts: 112
    Agree the trunk is a misstep. But in the total scheme of things, it was a minor one for me.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    The trunk is just part of it. The biggest problem I have with the car is its supposed to be much sportier than the outgoing car, and the VDIM system was supposed to be less intrusive than VSC. It appears that Lexus instead made it much MORE intrusive, and unlike BMW or Infiniti, there's no option to turn it off. I hope Lexus makes it defeatable in the IS, or at the very least stops it from "bringing the car to a halt".
  • jrock65jrock65 Posts: 1,371
    I honestly don't see any post where people are trying to convince you personally not to get a GS. That may well be the case, but I haven't found it. People are mostly voicing their opinions, both positive and negative, on the new GS.

    I have no doubt the GS will be the 3rd best seller in this segment after the E and the 5.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,328
    The sunroof opening is pretty skimpy too for an expensive vehicle.
  • 2lowkey2lowkey Posts: 2
    I been looking to purchase a new car and couldn't decide of what to buy the M or GS. Having had a chance to go see either. From the reviews you posted I can see the M is as far the better choice for me. For the best price I'll probly go through cars direct to get as close to invoice as possible. I want a car to look good outside as good as inside. If you put the $1300 aero package on the M35/45 if would out show the Lexus GS. Far as interior I'm about 6'2' so there no question on who's the winner there. Thank for your insights. For all you horsepower crazy people horse power don't mean anything if you can't put it to the ground. You forgetting the key factor to acceleration good tranny and gear ratio. My wife 3.5 Maxima rated at 260 hp with 5 speed auto/manual shift with gear ratio of 3.79 ran as good as my brother Chrysler 300c with 345 hp and 3.04 gear ratio. You can clearly see what I mean buy this statement 85 hp difference. Down the stretch they both get there in about the same time.
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