Scion tC

pzev

37.2!? No wonder scion doesn't have the headroom specs on their page. That's pretty sad.

gee35coupe

Not a minivan. 37.2 will be fine since the seats are reclined. The Celica has 38 in. with sunroof. The G35 coupe only 39 and it's a much larger car. Civic EX coupe has 36.9. Looks like it's in the ballpark.

Not a big deal.

alpha01

This is one of the biggest perks of being short (I'm 5-7). I've never once even considered headroom when looking at vehicles, or had a problem with access in/out of the rear of sporty cars.

The headroom spec on any of the cars above means nothing to a lot of people, like me.



~alpha

shlickrick

i just read on some web site that the keyless entry system will include a key with the buttons built onto the key itself...kinda like lexus bmw, and the new accord. they also made mention that the hatch will have a power release on the back end as well as on the key. that's a pretty cool little feature. if i remember correctly though, i think the xB has that too. (well, at least on the back by the liscence plate) i am REALLY looking forward to this car! i was thinking about getting a year old accord coupe, but this seems like a MUCH better deal. oh, and on that same site they also mentioned that scion said the supercharger option will be 'suprisingly affordable' i'm thinking if it's under $1500, that's a MUST HAVE!!! (200hp, 5 spd, under 18k..i'm THERE!)

gee35coupe

I'm 6'6' but most of my height is in my 38" inseam. I've never had a head clearance problem. It's the leg room I have to look out for.

719b

do you have the seat tracks moved back for a more comfortable fit? are there any small or sporty cars that have enough leg room?
my inseam isn't quite as long as yours, but i know i have trouble finding a comfortable fit in a sport car.

carlisimo

I'm your same height and never look at headroom either, but sometimes I have the opposite problem, especially since my shortness is more in my torso than my legs.

My family had an '88 Celica that I couldn't park without sitting on top of something... I was too low in it. I get the bathtub effect in more cars than taller people do, though high adjustable seats obviously help. None of my family's cars have had those though.

gee35coupe

I learned to drive in a VW bug. So I'm used to being in close quarters. Now I drive a range of a 03 Civic SI to a 94 LS400. I actually feel more comfortable in the Civic. It depends on whether your idea of comfort means having your legs straight out in front to the pedals. That's not gonna happen in this car.

1davao

Scion is designed for that first time young Toyota buyer who would not have bought one if not for the low price. Toyota is eating up some of the cost for that long term loyal buyer of toyota products.
Lose some now but gain some later. The other car manufacturers are now following suit in this ingenious marketing strategy.

1davao

1davao

Both Avensis and Camry are available in Europe.
Avensis may be sport tuned European version of Camry.

1davao

andys120

The Avensis is a completely different car from the Camry according to CAR(UK)

karl1

Is there any word of a 4-door tc? The Avensis has 4 doors, along with other competing models like Mazda3 and Jetta. It would be a simple mod to expand to a broader segment.

gee35coupe

With the Xa on the market here. The Tc is the "sporty" scion.

carpeople

I have two questions..

1. I can't find where on the Scion site you can build the tC, can someone give me a link?

2. About the no haggle, does that mean you can't test drive before you buy your vehicle or not?

Thanks in advance

alpha01

Welcome!

I do not know if a "Build Your Own" function is available on the Scion website just yet, as base pricing has been announced, but Im not sure all the features pricing has been released. Its mostly post production anyway, meaning factory options are really just ordered by the dealer and installed there.

No haggle simply means the price you see on the window is the price you get, unless there are other marketing programs going on... such as a college grad rebate, special financing terms, leasing terms and the like. But the cost of the vehicle is based on MSRP.

Dont ever let any dealer tell you that you cant test drive because its no-haggle. Drive all you want, and if they dont want to let you.. .go elsewhere.

Hope this helps a little.

~alpha

pzev

Say what? "Low slung sporty coupe?" What does that have to do with anything? The Civic coupe, that you use as an example, has 39.0 inches of headroom without the moonroof, but drops to a pathetic 36.9 inches with one. 39.0 inches of headroom is very respectable and will work for most people. A Honda Accord coupe has a huge 39.8 inches then drops to 37.5.

A Mazda6 starts with 38.7 inches then drops to only 38.0 with a moonroof. My guess is the problem is the others (including the tC) have the tilt feature which requires the moonroof to eat into headroom more than the non-tilting moonroof in the Mazda6. It has nothing to do with being a "low slung sporty coupe". The tC probably has respectable amount of headroom without the sunroof.

gee35coupe

So we have to deal with it. Like it or hump it.

I can't fit in the Matrix because of the leg room. Nothing i can do about it so I don't have one. It's that simple.

All Civic EX's have a sunroof. So they all have "pathetic" roof clearance. Seems they are doing fine this year. It's a small two door kinda like the Tc and cars like this are expected to have a sunroof. Those that don't want them are the minority. Since they are making them all one spec to keep costs down, looks like the minority is SOL in this case.

alpha01

Well said. I was really hoping for a Preview Test or Road Test of the tC, supercharged or not, in this months issue of Car and Driver. Alas, heres waiting...

~alpha

yifflover_69

First: I was considering Tc, but no sunroof?
You guys are saying it can have one? (or did I hear wrong?) Although I didn't see one on the specs/pictures.

That's my major reason for not considering it, if it had one/optional: back on the long list it goes

I am also vertically challenged (5'4) and have never considered headroom: I just get in and if I fit yay! Although I am also 16 so ;D

gee35coupe

All of them will have one.

yifflover_69

oops, I am stupid, sorry for wasting space and time guys >:-(

Kirstie_H

yifflover_69, no problem! It's no big deal to ask questions that seem "stupid." A lot of us around here aren't vehicle experts, and we're here to learn from those who truly are.

1davao

Prices for accessories are out in another forum.
Kinda steep. Supposedly, it should be out in the scion site in a few days.

1davao

alpha01

are kinda step for the xA and xB also. But they are installed at port or at dealership, so from my understanding, its hard to get a car the way you want it. You can provide a link to the other board, by the way, please do so, its not against the TH agreement.

~alpha

1davao

Here's the unverified tC accessory prices. Informant claims to be a dealer.

2005 MY ACCESSORY FINAL PRICING - tC Accessories

PRODUCT DESCRIPTION Port Installed
MSRP

Alloy Wheels EMX Super 7 18" (per wheel) TBD

Ashtray Ashtray N/A
Retainer Kit (required for ashtray Installation)

Audio AM/FM/CD Deck by Pioneer STD

AM/FM/6-Disc by Pioneer $395.00

Satellite Tuner/Antenna by Pioneer $695.00

VSE Subwoofer by Bazooka Mobile Audio $449.00

Auto Dimming Mirror Homelink and color illumination $310.00

Billet Oil Cap and Battery Tie Down by AEM Battery Tie Down - Polished Finish $120.00
Oil Cap - Polished Finish

Battery Tie Down - Gray Finish $120.00
Oil Cap - Gray Finish

B-Pillar Applique' by Superior Dash Carbon Fiber $75.00

Car Cover $219.00

Carbon Fiber Engine Cover Carbon Fiber $229.00

Cargo Liner $104.00

Cargo Tote by Nifty Products Black Tote $40.00

Cargo Net Pocket Cargo Net $49.00

Cold Air Induction System by AEM TBD

Door Sill $115.00

Exhaust System Polished Stainless Steel $525.00

Floor Mats/Cargo - Carpet Black 4-PC Hybrid AW/Carpet $145.00
PPO= 5pc kit Black Cargo Mat

Fog Lights TBD

Front End Mask Launch - TBD TBD

Front Strut Tie Bar by Hotchkis Tuning $225.00

Ground Effects Flint 1E0 $995.00
Black sand 209 $995.00
Blk cherry 3P2 $995.00
Indigo 8P4 $995.00
White 040 $995.00
Silver 1E7 $995.00
Azure 8Q6 $995.00

LED Under Dash and Cup Holder Illumination LED Interior Light Kit - Blue $250.00
LED Interior Light Kit - Amber $250.00

Mud Guard $88.00
Premium License Plate Frame Gold N/A
Chrome
Black Pearl

Rear Bumper Applique Clear $58.00

Rear Spoiler -Lip Super White (040) $385.00
Silver Streak Mica (1E7) $385.00
Black Sand Pearl (209) $385.00
Flint Mica (1E0) $385.00
Black Cherry Pearl (3P2) $385.00
Indigo Ink Pearl (8P4) $385.00
Azure Pearl (8Q6) $385.00

Rear Spoiler - Pedestal Launch - TBD TBD

LED Rear Tail Lights by TYC Launch - TBD TBD

Security $469.00

Shift Knobs by OBX Racing Sports Speed Star Shift Knob $59.00
Speed Star Mesh Shift Knob $59.00
Classic (Leather) Shift Knob $59.00

Sport Pedals by OBX Racing Sports Pedals-Stainless Steel AT $79.00
Pedals-Stainless Steel MT $79.00

Steering Wheel - Sport Gray N/A

Wheel Locks $59.00
fog lights are $480...

1davao

sev6

I'm new here. That's some nice info you have. Anyone know what the next scion is going to be?

moparbad

tC is not even here yet, and you want to know what the next Scion is going to be?

ateixeira

Yeah, the tC *is* the next Scion. ;-)

-juice

mackabee

I've just finished reading all 236 posts. My question is, of all of you that been discussing this vehicle for the last couple of months, who is buying one?
                 ; )
                 Mackabee

pzev

Those prices are kind of steep on some of those accessories. And that's probably not even including labor costs. I'm assuming though that tC's will be ordered the same way as other Scions. And there's no disadvantage in ordering since the price is set at MSRP. Will be interesting to see if SE/Gulf states dealers will give people the run around and claim some of this stuff is required on the car. Sure they can throw some on the lot with lots of accessories on it but can't you just walk in and order a stock version and get it at MSRP and that's it? No rustproofing or Toyoguard package nonsense.

Mr_Shiftright

Sez here you can "build your Tc":

http://www.scion.com/drive/gallery/drive_tc_gallery.html

Shifty the Host

sev6

Yeah I kinda know that. I was just asking what would maybe be the fourth model if there will be one. I'm not stupid. If you didn't know you could just say no. I am not trying to be mean, ok.

1davao

It would be hip to see a tC with white colors on one side, black on the other and orange on top.
That would really differentiate the scion genre from the non scion generation. I would even entertain a
plastic changeable hood or trunk with different colors, just like a watch with different color bracelets to show what mood you are in.

1davao

lackofdave

From what I was told at a press function with Jim farley VP of Scion the way all scions will work including the new tC is you build the car you want with all custom accessories etc and then the dealer basically orders it from a district or regional "warehouse"
All the prices are standard across the board so theoretically one dealer can not get you a better deal than another.
After you "build" the car it arrives 2-5 days later at the dealer and you just go pick it up. I do not believe they charge you labor on the accessories. It would be like charging you labor on a moonroof or "Sports package" on a honda or mazda. it's already on the car at the lot. The concept is to save inventory so there aren't hundreds of unwanted, fully loaded scions somewhere or hundreds of stripped models at another dealer.

we'll see if the system works or not nationally. any california folks bought a scion xA or xB and can confirm the "labor" question.

ateixeira

Please note the smiley/winky emoticon, I think you misunderstood the tone of my post #236.

1davao: I think Smart may have done that in Europe already, didn't they?

-juice

pzev

What the next scion will be is anyone's guess at this point. Some of us are already wondering what the next one will be because for whatever reason the current offerings just aren't what we are looking for. However those same people would like a Toyota or Honda simply based on reliability/quality, but there simply isn't a product they want. The median age (according to JD Power) for the scion xA is 44. Of course we can't determine if the person buying it is buying it for a teenager or themselves, but other cars such as VW Golf and Civic coupe I believe have lower numbers in the 30's.

I believe I read an article sometime back that Toyota may simply drop a car entirely and bring a completely new car to replace the old car after 4-5 years. Instead of offering an updated Scion xA, they'll simply drop it and offer a new car that Japan has. They have many to choose from so again it's anyones guess. Of course if a Scion proves to be popular they will keep it around for awhile.

On another note, the diesel Avensis has/is being tested by the EPA. I'm sure this is in anticipation of low sulfur fuel being offered in 2006, and with the popularity of fuel-sipping hybrids and rising gas prices, a juggernaut like Toyota would be stupid to sit on their hands and not offer a diesel in a compact/midsize car. With the exception of VW this is untapped and some automakers are chomping at the bit to try and cash in. Ford has already expressed an interest in offering a diesel Focus.

Could the Avensis hurt Camry sales? Maybe so, but the diesel Avensis is no powerhouse. 0-60 is about 11 seconds, no better than a Prius. On the other hand you get (some of this is debateable), more bang for your buck (diesel is cheaper than a hybrid engine, but not as cheap as a regular gas engine I think), good fuel mileage (35mpg in the city with a 3300+ pound Avensis with solid low-end torque), and good long-term durability. The engine is only 115hp and horsepower sells a lot of cars so some people will simply buy the Camry. I doubt it would be made a Scion if it was offered but you never know.

Also if Toyota decides to drop the Echo this opens a slot for a low-end sedan which Scion could pick up. Many possibilities for the future.

pzev

Yes I'm interested to know if there is a labor charge for accessories or not. Toyota had a weight estimate on scion.com at one point and it was a little over 3000 pounds. Any official numbers released yet? A camry 4-cyl engine with over 3000 pounds is no performance bargain. The key may be the supercharger option, but depending on actual cost and if there is a labor charge or not this car may not be a performance bargain some young people are looking for. The older people will buy it like any other Toyota for the reliability/quality and Toyota will have failed again in trying to get young people excited about their products.

Also the fuel mileage estimates were 22/29 for the manual. This car in stock form is a good bargain if it's what you're looking for, but beyond that this car will simply sell on the badge. Slap a "lesser" brand's badge on it and most tC buyers wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.

sev6

Thanks for your help pzev.

totalnet

Was around the LAX area last week and I saw tC on the 405. It was little bit bigger than I thought. Didn't even know it was tC when I first saw it, because the images on Scion make it look like a Civic coupe. But in person, as the other person in my card said, it looks like it was design by someone from BMW. Both of us agree that the car looks very good in person. In fact it's too good, every kids plus few grown ups in Southern California will be getting one of these.

gee35coupe

I stated a while back that the Tc looked like a winner. If they come in under $18k, they won't be able to keep up with demand.

gambit293

I saw a TC "video game" commercial on Sunday. I have to admit, it DID catch my attention, dorky gen-Yer that I am.

bpraxis

After reviewing the standard features for the Tc with an automatic transmission for $17,200, this car will be a smash hit.

  My celica with less options had an MSRP of $19,600 and the Tc is more expensive looking with a better sound system and 17 inch wheels.

  You have to love the free market and competition. The consumer wins big time with this new Tc. Cant wait to see one in person.

revdrluv

This car is gonna really hurt Civic coupe sales.

gee35coupe

The Tc is built in Japan. With import quotas and profit margins the way they are, Toyota can only afford to send coparably few Scions to the U.S. Availability will keep the Scions from overtaking the Civic. It also will keep demand high.

revdrluv

Do you know how many they plan on selling per year?

pzev

Yeah but why spend $16k on a Civic when the tC is so much better of a value it's not even funny. If the person can't get a tC because of availability and buys the Civic then they just spent a ton of money on a second choice, not good. When the 2001 Civic came out I honestly didn't see what the big deal was. It wasn't a good value then and still isn't.

And they better scrape together a decent amount of cars because a bunch of 35-50 year olds will be standing in line wanting one and the young kids will be waiting an eternity for one or never get one at all. This isn't a Lamborghini and they aren't going to put posters of the tC on their wall. They'll just move on to something else. Toyota wants the kids IN the car and want them to own one so they'll come back to Toyota for their next car. (brand loyalty)

pzev

I thought I read somewhere that they would make around 30,000 a year. Can't remember where or if that's even accurate. No doubt demand will be greater than supply for the first year or two, but if Honda can make a competitve Civic or Nissan makes a powerful Sentra sedan/coupe that's competitive then in a couple of years supply might be enough.

Mr_Shiftright

Have you all seen the latest Edmunds Scion Tc Road Test?

Host

jsvh

"This isn't a Lamborghini and they aren't going to put posters of the tC on their wall."

Hehe, so is it a bad thing if I have a tC poster on my wall?

I heard that the tC will be hard to get a hold of till August. Then the factories should be in full swing. By the second year they have plans to produce almost as many tCs as Honda does Civics. I looked, but I dont remember where I read this. Still, Toyota should be producing enough tCs to keep up with a reasonable amount of demand.

ateixeira

Just keep in mind the tC will have to sell at MSRP vs. the Civic/Celica at invoice minus rebates. You should compare those prices, not list to list.

fitzmall.com sells Celicas at no-haggle prices and those prices are at about $2k less than MSRP right now. Just factor that in, is all I'm saying.

I do think all the Scions represent a good value and that the low fixed MSRP strategy will pay off, though. Residuals will be strong and they'll come around to buy another one in 4-5 years, watch.

-juice