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Comments
I agree. This isn't something new to Highlanders or even Toyota, in general. If an uninformed buyer doesn't know any better, they actually think "bargaining down" to MSRP is an excellent deal.
I can't believe you guys actually sold your service manager at $1000.00 over MSRP!
Supply and demand, pure and simple. If we all expect to pay less than the "suggested retail price," then I guess it's fair that a dealer can ask for a price higher than MSRP.
My salesperson told me that their employee discount still does not apply to the Prius or Camry Hybrids -- they pay MSRP (or slightly below) like everyone else.
OK, I'll ask the question. What would you suggest as an alternative?
I prefer each region's ability to create their own packages. If you want to know what's available in your region, you simply enter your zip code on the corporate site. That's not that difficult.
That's better than forcing me to take options in a national "package" that make no sense for my region.
Don't imply on Toyota's corporate site that I can get certain options and then feed me off to a regional site that disagrees.
The language is pretty clear to me on the Toyota corporate site (and I don't even have a degree in operations analysis ).
"Not all options/packages are available separately and some may not be available in all regions of the country."
Would you care to suggest another way to present the various regional combinations on the corporate site?
How about the best of both worlds? Keep regional packages, but also allow customers to custom order any option they want.
Only a very small percentage would want to something that is not available in their region. This way, you wouldn't lose the sale.
./.
It doesn't matter really. I have zero sympathy for Toyota in this case. I know what they can do as far as manufacturing and I know what kind of people tend to work at dealers and at the regional level.
Now you're into marketing. Each regional market is different Toyota prefers keeping the control at the regional level.
You don't have to have any sympathy for Toyota, it's not like they are in trouble in any way. This marketing structure has made them the pre-eminent marketer in the auto industry, the one every other wants to emulate. It works better than any other system so kudos rather than sympathy cards is probably the right choice.
But no system will please everyone. Again this discussion comes up over and over again with each new launch. It aims to please the greatest number of potential customers most efficiently. Some will be annoyed and pass, most won't.
Differing options by region might make sense in a few small cases (like the cold weather package makes no sense in FL) but are people's needs that much different across the country otherwise? Can you really say more people in Kansas want the rear entertainment system than people in CA or New England? I somehow doubt it.
Also, how many people in New England really want sunfoofs? It seems like a lot based on what dealers/regions order but everyone I know with a sunroof barely uses it.
Another corollary of this is when in order to get one option package they force you to get other options which have nothing to do with the option you want. This, imho, is just a form of gouging the customer. I don't have a discreet example but my impression is that Toyota seems to do a good job at this. Maybe that's where their expertise in marketing science has helped propel them to the top in terms of sales. That not withstanding I think they make some good products but I have been dissuaded from buying precisely because of the available packages force me into the high end to get what I want. I don't want leather and I don't necessarily want a sunroof since I use it about once a year. I do want heated seats, premium sound, and telescoping steering.
These are my impressions and I'll gladly accept any evidence pro or con and consider changing them as the facts warrant.
Tx
Jeffer03
The center seat is more for when you need to seat 7. Uncomfortable similar to a luxury sedan back seat (Two sculpted seats with the 'bump' in the middle).
I agree that the third row should be split. Without it, you lose often needed cargo space.
I have two similar configurations in my driveway. I prefer the 4+2(split) when I have 5 or 6 without cargo though the 50/50 third allows for 5 with limited cargo. The 5+2(bench) is good for 5 plus cargo or 6-7 without.
The split third would allow for the 6 plus cargo or the convenient 3 car seat kids plus room for the large stroller(AKA the minivan).
The Outbacks and other models were all similar.
I'm looking at the Sport model, and if I'm interested in just NAV and rear DVD as options, I'm out of luck in my region: it appears that I can only get the NAV or the DVD, but not both, and each are packaged with other options such as leather, sunroof, tow prep, dual climate control.
So I'm confused. Does that mean I can't get NAV and DVD in any configuration?
It seems that you're saying that the option packages defined by the regions don't meet your needs. Imagine that.
For the money, the highlander won.
Oh, I got it for $900 over invoice. I looked at it the first day they got it, and they said they didn't want to deal. Told them to call me when they were ready, and they called 4 days later. Just be patient, and you will get the car you want for the right price.
DrFill
I never said otherwise. What I said was that based on MY experience I did not encounter many if any prospects looking at those vehicle and the Highlander. With this new redesign things may change. Congratulations and enjoy your new Toyota!
:shades:
Mackabee
That being said you can get both Navi and RES installed locally at the same price or less for one of the standard trims. From the factory you won't be able to get it on any trim other than the Limiteds ...at leaast at this point.
Decision points were comfortable ride and fit (I'm rather tall, and the person behind me can be the wife if the baby is unhappy), MPG, final price hopefully around 40k w/ tax and finally options. Third row seat was not a must have, as we could stick the infant seat in the middle with the others on each side and dog in the back. However, it was preferred since as the kids grow, i didn't want to squish em together. I personally wanted Navigation, a stereo upgrade, and moonroof.
The RX AWD has mileage of 17/22 which is about normal. Around 40k, you pretty much get the base package, so no nav. However, the real killer was the relatively little leg room in back. With my seat back all the way, and some recline, the person behind me was hurting.
The murano never really had a chance. Small, and honestly, the dash was too weird for me. Sometimes things like that you just can't get past.
The Lincoln MKX was actually a solid contender. 17/24 MPG. Good legroom in the back, nice ride, and pretty much loaded at 43k with Nav, vista roof, and a nice stereo. With a stiff discount (its lincoln, I mean, they gotta go under invoice) got me in the ballpark.
The Enclave just sucked, IMHO. Cheap and bouncy with a high price tag to boost. Might be a good car for someone trying to get out of a suburban or minivan, but not someone moving up from a sedan.
The MDX was the closest competition and probably my backup plan if the toyota guys hadn't dropped their price. Base price at 40k, so that would work. They both had the same 2nd row leg room, and both have a somewhat limited 3rd row that was going to only work for the dog and kids. 17/22 MPG was close. Though, to keep the price in the ballpark, had to give up the technology package.
And that was the deciding factor. With the Highlander, i get the NAV, with the bluetooth, JBL stereo, and backup camera for 40k including Tax, title etc. With the MDX, I had to spend $3.5k more + the fact the Acura guy had to find me a technology MDX, and wasn't going to give very good discounts on one he found, it make the decision easy.
Long story short. As someone who looked at what I felt was a lot of cars, I think the MDX is competition to the Highlander Limited with option "B" or "C".
I've tested both Pilot and MDX and they drive very similar, difference mostly in interior, esp seat, quality.
But the one thing the MDX has that makes it useless to me is those stupid cross bars on the roof. Those things are practically useless. If you are an outdoors person and wish to put something on the roof you will find they reach their maximum capacity rather quickly unless you are only carrying a couple bikes. The Toe-Rag has the same problem as did the Tribeca. Some of the GM products I've seen I have a hard time figuring out what type of roof system they have or would require for an outdoor type.
For people into kayaking or needing to put 100+ lbs on the roof you need side rails and then decent load bars across the top. Add-on roof systems are OK but not as sturdy and can dent the roof (Thule on my 2000 Maxima did).
The Toe-Rag and Tribeca have corrected this design flaw for 2008 but not the MDX so you'll have to go with the Pilot if you want a good roof system with that vehicle as the base. Unless there is some technology out there that I don't know about. I'm open to new info.
thanks,
jeffer3
I must agree with you that the new 08 Highlander is much more stylish and I love the smart key. Especially, since I'm always getting mini anxiety attacks when I can't find my keys. Then, ten frustrating minutes later I discover them at the bottom of my purse.
I think I will test drive them back to back. It feels good to have narrowed the search down to two vehicles. Your advice was hepful.
Mackabee
:shades:
DrFill
Since women influence something like 85% of all car purchases in the US, you're talking a lot of sales lost!
Or husbands complaining to me that this is the 5th car we've seen, today! Or how many months they've been "looking". :confuse:
One of the many reasons I got out of the business.
DrFill
So far, I've seen 4 listings for 2008 Highlanders. Three of them were Sports, one was a Base. Only two Sports remain listed as of this evening.
There was a red Sport 4x2 with navigation and leather from a dealer in TN that had a Buy-It-Now price of $43.5K (!). The auction was ended early and the photo replaced with a "sold" sign, so I guess someone bought it locally.
This one has a black leather interior. I'm not a big fan of all-black interiors (my 4Runner Sport has black seats, but most of the interior trim is two-tone dark and light grey).
There is a grey Sport from Arizona with the dealer-installed bodyside molding. It looks...well...not as good as I was hoping. It looks odd because the rear door has that large styling curve, which the molding does not cover. I was definitely planning on getting the molding, but now I'm not so sure. This one has the grey cloth interior and has the JBL audio, but manual front and rear A/C.
The other Sport is an AWD from Kansas (silver with black leather). Buy It Now is MSRP.
You should be able to locate these listings by searching for the Highlander and sorting by date. To see the completed auctions (i.e. to see the Red Sport), you'll need to log in.
Note: this is not an endorsement of any of these sellers; I'm just using them for their photos.
Or husbands complaining to me that this is the 5th car we've seen, today! Or how many months they've been "looking". "
This is so true, LOL
If anyone can fill me in, I'd appreciate it or if I am wrong and there is no extra charge, I'd appreciate that as well.
Thanks
Mackabee
[the opposite side of town from Mackabee.. ]
Not to mention the Toyota Highlander: Prices Paid & Buying Experience one.
Why Toyota enumerates it separately is behond me. It may have to do with the fact that in two regions Toyota doesn't control the operations of the regional offices. SET and GST are separate individually owned distributorships. These two may have lobbied to Toyota on the national level to break out the regional expense so that these two aren't at that much of a disadvantage.
It's still weird. But as to getting shafted. Not really. GM and Ford do exactly the same...except that they don't show you the details. They too add the national/regional advertising into the price, it's just that they don't enumerate it separately.
Does anyone know what the link is. It was posted here.
Toyota Guide
1. For 2007, the MDX drives WAY better than the Pilot. Are you sure you drove a 2007 MDX?
2. In most cases, any factory installed crossbars (as opposed to rails) are removable. You can buy adaptors from Yakima or Thule to mount their crossbars on most factory roof rails. In fact, on the MDX, the roof rails are optional and installed by the dealer. The crossbars are an additional option. So, I'm not really sure what you're talking about here. The MDX is perfectly fine in this regard.
Mackabee
They break it down because Toyota Motor Sales USA was sued out in California in the late 80's or early 90's regarding ad fees dealers were adding to the selling price of the vehicles. If I recall, the plaintiffs were awarded a huge amount and the participants recieved a certificate for $150.00 off their next new vehicle purchase. I recall calling TMS to verify pay-offs and there was a recording telling the caller about the lawsuit and the settlement. I'll look it up and tell you about it.
So, we'll have to fork out some big bucks!!
Also, who's putting a car carrier on their roof rack?
Mackabee
What do the black marks in the previous generation have to do with the new model?
We apologize for the delay in our response and the difficulty experienced in trying to find your vehicle of choice.
We apologize; you are having difficulty locating a 2008 Highlander with CFC-free rear automatic digital climate control system with integrated multi-function display, air filter and rear vents for second- and third-row seats. Vehicle allocation is based on the geographical area in which they are marketed. Toyota dealerships and distributors are prepared to take your request and make every attempt to obtain the desired vehicle.
If the dealership is unable to locate the vehicle of choice, they may submit a preference request for your desired vehicle. This preference request does not guarantee you will receive the vehicle with the exact options requested, and may create an extended wait-time.
We encourage you to contact the Customer Relations Manager at your local Toyota dealership for further assistance.
If you are following up on my question about getting a Limited with rear A/C, Thanks. In my efforts to locate such a vehicle in NorCal, I have found dealers efforts ranging from dismissive to helpful. The one salesperson who was helpful said he found one vehicle with rear A/C in all of NorCal that he could possibly get his hands on. However, ordering such a vehicle per the salesman would not guarantee I would get it and would demand that I pay MSRP. I did call corporate Toyota which said NorCal will get this option but it hasn't so far. I am waiting hopefully.
Perhaps as a general trend, but less useful when there is a full model changeover. The black for the early MDX (01,02) were for a transmission problem that was fixed in subsequent years. A few black marks 5 years that were fixed are really meanlingless for forecasting. In fact the 08 Highlander is a bigger unknown than the MDX. At least the MDX has one year of history. And Toyota can mess up new models, The new Lexus GS model was reponsible for dropping Lexus from fisrt to fifth place in CRs relaiablity rankings. Ask the new Camry and ES 350 owners that had transmission flare problems how they feel about reliability.
To say that the new Highlander is more reliable than the new MDX because of CR black marks for the old model is a stretch. I think both of these models are going to be pretty reliable. To the point that a decision to buy either should be based on other factors.
Now if you want to say that dealer service and maintenance is likely going to more expensive at Acura than Toyota... that's another story.
I relate this story in case it may help other people make sensible decisions on what and how they tie stuff to their roofs, and the fact I don't want to be driving behind you if you are not extra careful about those choices. ;0
I did just do a little more research and found that there are heavier duty cross-bars that apparently can fit into the existing tracks on vehicles such as the MDX so that makes me feel a little better. However those tracks don't make me ooze with confidence that they can handle any appreciable load.
My previous vehicle I had add-on clamp like system on a Nissan Maxima. It did the trick for the 5 years I used but I always felt that that system would more easily lend itself to user error (i.e failure to stay on the roof) if not tightened down properly. Also it put little dents in the roof which might impact your resale value.
Personally I feel safest with side rails mounted as a factory install and then using a good sturdy load bar across the top. This insures your roof system should not be the point of failure. I also check my straps and tie-downs frequently on long trips whenever I stop just to make sure.
tx
Jeffer3
Jeffer3