Who Killed The Cimarron? (^-^)

mattc

Looking at this comparison report with the BMW 325e and the Mercedes 190E, the little Caddy comes out not too bad. Even 30 years ago the German car buyer would never have considered a Caddy, regardless of how good it was. Originally conceived as a BMW 320i & Audi 4000 import fighter, on basic specs Cadillac seemed to be in the ballpark, or were they?



Popular Science Aug '85 Page 1

Popular Science Aug '85 Page 2

Popular Science Aug '85 Page 3



Bimmer

fintail

Had the Cimarron had more body changes to mask the Cavalier roots, it might have fared better. That being said, they seem to have sold quite a few, as they aren't particularly rare today. FWD might not have helped either - I know it was seen as new good tech in the early 80s, but some people didn't want it then and don't want it now.

Many of the W201s and E30s compared to the Cimarron are still on the road too. That early Audi 4000 though, those are almost extinct now, heck, they were rare 20 years ago.

sda

fintail said:

Had the Cimarron had more body changes to mask the Cavalier roots, it might have fared better. That being said, they seem to have sold quite a few, as they aren't particularly rare today. FWD might not have helped either - I know it was seen as new good tech in the early 80s, but some people didn't want it then and don't want it now.

Many of the W201s and E30s compared to the Cimarron are still on the road too. That early Audi 4000 though, those are almost extinct now, heck, they were rare 20 years ago.

In early 1985, about 2 years out of college I bought a used 82 Cimarron. It was silver with med/dark blue leather interior, all power except cruise, and no pop up glass sunroof. It was a 4 speed manual. 1.8 litre (GM spelling) with 2bbl. I think it was around 85hp. It was a real slug with the a/c on, though typical GM air, very good indeed. It wasn't a bad car. Compared to other similar size cars at the time, very nicely equipped, rode and drove well, though no sports sedan and decently quiet. The 4 speed trans was a disaster in that 4th gear was over drive. Thus a huge gap between 3 and 4. No pull at all in 4th, just good for cruising on level ground. I was living in hilly east TN, and remember either having to the engine scream up an incline trying to maintain 55-60, or lug and lose speed by keeping it in 4th. I do think in Cadillac had more time to bring the Cimarron to market, bring it in with a 5 speed--which they did for 83, give it a better engine, make some other changes that they eventually did but too late, it would have been better received. I still have the original sales brochure from 82. Crank windows were standard! Really, in a Cadillac in 82? I think electric windows were standard in all Caddys since the late 60s!

sda

It was too expensive at the start. I think mine listed for around 14-15k. I bought it for $5200 at a Toyota dealership not 3 years later. I'd hate the think what the original owner rec'd as a trade in.

uplanderguy

I never thought Cimarrons were bad cars, just that it was so obvious they were a Cavalier. Why would you spend Cadillac money on a new Cavalier? Used is different, of course. Whenever I saw a new one being driven, I'd think "there's a not-very-sophisticated buyer", same as what I generally thought when I'd see new Renault Alliances and Encores being driven. My two cents only, change gladly given.

berri

Heck, back in that era GM was saddling Cadillac's with not such great engines as well. Aluminum, 8-6-4 (IIRC, they did skip on the early Olds Diesel) before they were ready for prime time. It was kind of like GM was saying "C'mon into my marketplace Germany and Japan". They did help Lincoln out though I suppose. It was really kind of sad to me.

Speaking of deals, I actually saw a Lincoln MKS today. Now there's a car you can probably steal used.

andre1969

I think the problem with the Cimarron is that Cadillac was entering a market they didn't really understand...premium small sedans. GM had gotten lucky with their previous "small" car experiment...the 1975 Seville. But, while the Seville was based on the Nova, GM put a lot of effort into improving it, so it was a lot more than simply a "Nova Brougham". It also probably helped that the Nova shared a lot of its chassis with the Camaro, so it made for a fairly well-handling car.

With the Cimarron though, GM pretty much just changed the easy-swap stuff and then put in a nicer interior. GM probably would have passed on the Cimarron completely, but Cadillac dealers were hollering for something smaller and economical, because in those fuel-starved times, buyers were staring to wake up and take notice of the offerings from Benz, BMW, and Audi. So, GM might have simply whipped up the Cimarron quick and dirty to get the dealers to shut up. And, CAFE fuel averages were most likely a concern, as well.

FWIW, I think a Cimarron is an attractive little car. When the Cavalier got restyled for 1984 though, and given quad headlights and an eggcrate grille, the two cars really started looking too similar. Also, I'm not sure about earlier Cavaliers, but a friend of mine had an '86 that had some kind of optional interior, and it was pretty ritzy inside. So, while the Cimarron was a nice car inside, I'm not so sure that it was that much nicer than a top trim Cavalier.

fintail

Manual windows? These people should have their pay and benefits retroactively taken back, seriously, who made these decisions?

When I was in high school, I knew a guy who had an ~86 Cimarron. V6, pretty loaded, it seemed like a pretty nice car - especially in the small town where I lived, where it was nicer than most cars on the road. This would have been around 1994. It was grey with similar leather, sunroof, etc. I think it had belonged to his grandparents, who gave it to him and his similar aged relatives to use.

sda

I found a few pictures of the 82 Cimarron that I bought in Jan 85. Who ever owned it prior to me had the hood ornament put on and put white walls on it. I had intended to reverse the tires back to black wall but ended up selling it in May as I was moving to NC and did not want a car payment. Bought a 79 Rabbit to bide time. It was my stick shift Caddy.

Mr_Shiftright

GM committed no worse an offense than BMW did with an overpriced, rather bland 320i that they foisted on their loyal 2002 fans.

uplanderguy

I'd have considered a used Cimarron, but never a new one. You could load up a Cavalier if you liked that platform. This is probably not very fair of me, but if I saw anyone driving a new Cimarron, my first thought would be, "Those folks aren't very car-smart". I felt the same way about Renault Alliance and Encore owners....LOL...substantiated by a guy I worked with who bought one. I was surprised to remember that the Alliance was a "Car of the Year". I remember having an Encore as a rental in NJ. Merging required special planning, and one of the hatch struts was lying in the body channel on that side of the car.

sda

uplanderguy said:

I'd have considered a used Cimarron, but never a new one. You could load up a Cavalier if you liked that platform. This is probably not very fair of me, but if I saw anyone driving a new Cimarron, my first thought would be, "Those folks aren't very car-smart". I felt the same way about Renault Alliance and Encore owners....LOL...substantiated by a guy I worked with who bought one. I was surprised to remember that the Alliance was a "Car of the Year". I remember having an Encore as a rental in NJ. Merging required special planning, and one of the hatch struts was lying in the body channel on that side of the car.

I agree, the Cimarron was overpriced and under delivered. I happened upon this one at the Toyota dealership, the owner traded for a Cressida. I paid $5200 for it and the original sticker was near $14k, nuts. It did have a nice interior, the 1.8 litre was a dog, no umph at all. Of all things, I sold it private party for $6000 four months after I bought it. Never have made money on a car since, yet made money on a Cimarron of all things.

texases

Doubly sad, given that Caddy new how to do this right, like they did with the Seville-from-Nova transformation: better looking body, better engine, better interior. I don't remember folks criticizing the Seville, even with its high price.

uplanderguy

Folks didn't criticize the Seville, because I don't believe there was a single piece of sheetmetal or glass that interchanged between a Nova and it, unlike the Cimarron and also the Lincoln Versailles.

I still like the smaller Seville. They ruined it for '80 IMHO.

sda

One more picture--instruments

uplanderguy

Same mileage as your Vega GT in the other photo!

sda

uplanderguy said:

Same mileage as your Vega GT in the other photo!

I saw that too! Sold the Cimarron with closer to 60k on it.

kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright said:

GM committed no worse an offense than BMW did with an overpriced, rather bland 320i that they foisted on their loyal 2002 fans.

Having driven the two vehicles, I'll have to disagree with that.

But, a stick-shift Cimarron!! Wow!

sda

I happened upon a Retro Motorweek Review of the 82 and 83 Cimarron. Cadillac made significant changes in just one model year. The 1982 1.8 litre with 2bbl carb was upgraded in 1983 to a 2 litre with port fuel injection. They were both rated at 88hp, but torque was much better with the 2 litre. Some chassis changes were made that improved ride and handling. Remember the speed limit during this period was 55 mph. With the automatic the 82 did 0-60 in 15.8 sec, qtr mile 22 sec at 65 mph. The manual (which I had) was said to be 2 seconds quicker. The 83 actually squawked the tires and ran 0-60 in 14.5 sec and qtr mile at 20 sec and 70 mph. Again the manual car, now a 5 speed for 83 and not the 4 speed from 82, was still about 2 seconds quicker.

uplanderguy

Both the J-cars, and the A-cars (I think...Celebrity et al) were introduced for the '82 model year and were sales disappointments--both in high price and in the J-cars, low performance. The '83 performance, as you've said, was much-improved.

prowler_mq5qm_

Ahhh, the 85 MPH speedo....... sooo easy to "peg", b/c of the trip meter reset button! "Write me up a number 25, post my face wanted dead or alive, take my license, all that jive, I...can't...drive...55!!!!"

fintail

If one thinks the 85 mph speedo was bad...

texases

My XJ Cherokee had a tach like that, with two digits. Why?? Why use numbers for the tach that could be confused for the speedometer?

And I'll add my other pet peeve, ignored by 99.99% of folks - the label on the tach should either be "RPM/100" or "100 RPM"...

stever

My wife blasted through a 25 zone on a road test a while back doing 40 mph. She was looking at the tach and thought it was the speedo and thought she was well under the limit. Can't remember which car it was, but it was a bit of a confusing setup - something you'd get used to in an hour or two though.

uplanderguy

fin, what instrument panel is that? I don't have a clue here.

andre1969

It looks like a variation of the Cavalier/Cimarron instrument panel, but I'm not sure. On the Cavalier, the tach and temp gauge were optional. And I remember the Z-24 having a different dashboard that, interestingly, reminded me a bit of a '73-77 LeMans. Not in the gauges so much, but the overall shape, especially on the passenger side around the ducts and glovebox.

fintail

That's an 86 Tempo sedan - I think the same shape was in sedans from 84-87, with the tach being optional (of course). I remember driving our Tempo when I was a teenager and getting into that magical realm above the 80 mark - took awhile to get there.

I never understood how the tach and speedo could be too easily confused, but I understand many drivers aren't exactly 'with it', and will benefit greatly from autonomous cars I also think the tach is a silly thing for most cars, the pretense of sport that every 4cyl Camrolla needs.

prowler_mq5qm_

Thinks that make you go "hmmmmmm". I don't think she's being all up-front with you. How can you be going 40 mph and not realize you're going 15 mph faster than what you think is your speedometer is showing?

stever

Well, both the salesperson in the backseat and me in shotgun told her a couple of times to slow down and she couldn't figure out what the problem was until we opined that she was looking at the tach and not the speedo.

I dunno - you ever cruise down the freeway and glance down and realize that you are doing 90 in a 75?

Mr_Shiftright

kyfdx said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

GM committed no worse an offense than BMW did with an overpriced, rather bland 320i that they foisted on their loyal 2002 fans.

Having driven the two vehicles, I'll have to disagree with that.

But, a stick-shift Cimarron!! Wow!

It's not about how it drove, it's about the price and blah looks. The BMW 320i was a rip-off.

fintail

Would one notice that the tach fluctuates a lot more than a speedometer (should)? Or a screaming engine at high speeds might catch my attention too.

texases

It was the opposite problem - the tach showed "25" (2500 rpm) while driving at 40 mph.

stever

Well, the speed limit is 25 - as I said, my wife was just cruising along thinking she was under the speed limit. Could have been 2,000 rpm. The tach wouldn't be bouncing around just cruising down the street at a steady pace.

I posted about it at the time, but have been racking my brain and searching, but can't remember which car we were test driving at the time.

fintail

Did she not look at the speedometer while accelerating, or driving on different roads? The up-down of a tach would be pretty evident, to me anyway. Pretty funny.

I think on most modern cars, a two main gauge style has the speedo on the right, or middle with multiple gauges (I know BMW and some sports cars don't follow this).

stever

She wasn't accelerating, just cruising along a surface street. The street pictured in fact. It's a known speed trap, especially to the nearby car dealers, since it looks rural until you hit the trees up ahead with a bunch of houses. I use my cruise control around town a lot to avoid just such issues. I think most people accelerate to the speed limit and then loaf along at the limit - maybe you are one of those pulse and glide hypermilers always sticking your foot in it.

fintail

Was it a CVT? I have a car with gears, and it shifts a few times when gathering speed. The tach won't behave like a speedometer.

I think the real problem is that such a road is a 25, pretty ridiculous, but those budgets don't fund themselves. I mean, think of the children!

Maybe wifey is just goofy

stever

Neither one of remembers which car it was now - we've driven quite a few (CVTs and ATs).

The speeders typically get nabbed in the trees heading in the other direction (near the houses), where the city limits change from Las Cruces to Mesilla. It's a small town and when people complain about speeders the cops there actually do something. We shopped a house in that neighborhood and I think the limit is just fine for the area. The cops are nice too - I've flagged down a couple of them to talk about neighborhoods and crime in the area.

fintail

I bet it was a CVT. I will say it was, combined with being in a new unfamiliar car maybe with distracting tech, to excuse her mistake

25 still seems like a money grab excuse to me, or maybe fine for a side street, but not for an arterial, as the road pictured kind of looks like one. I live in a densely populated boomburb where almost all semi-major roads are 30 and above - with tons of pedestrians and cyclists and vehicles of all forms, and it is still boring plodding dullness, not armageddon.

stever

Come visit and we'll take a cruise.

I'm thinking it wasn't a CVT - as far as I can recall, the only one we've driven have been the Prii and they don't default to the tach (not even sure if they have one).

Now I'm thinking it may have been the Encore. Still won't swear to it though.

It has a 6 speed AT. Here's a photo of the gauge cluster:



Guess there's also a glare problem with the gauges per this post.

I wrote up a review about that test drive. Note my comment a couple of paragraphs in about the confusing controls - guess you'll be calling me an idiot now too.

fintail

Ah, there's the 'rpm x100' style layout. That would just add to the confusion. I don't know about the controls, but if that car had the version of CUE like in an Impala I rented a couple years ago, it wasn't the smoothest or most simple system either. Of course, that stuff has a learning curve - it's not like you couldn't figure out how to use the steering wheel or something

sda

For those who might have an interest, Adam on Rare Classic Cars had a brief discussion about the Cimmaron. As some of you may remember, I bought one used in 85, discussed in previous posts. Here is a picture that wasn't previously posted. Classic in the sense that I had two Cadillacs, my 70 DeVille convertible and an 82 Cimmaron while I was living in a mobile home. I had bought the home with the intent of eventually using it as a summer place on a lake somewhere but instead moved out of state

and sold it. The Cimarron had a 4sp manual transmission and the hood ornament was put on by the previous owner, something I had intended to have removed along with reversing the tires to show blackwalls had I kept the car.

fintail

A YouTuber I enjoy who has a penchant for very cheap unloved cars just picked up a Cimarron:

https://youtu.be/LYIroBUQI5M

I knew a guy in high school who had a Cimarron, I think gifted from a grandparent. It was one of the later composite light models, not terribly old at the time, seemed like a pretty nice car for what it was, and through the eyes of a teenager.