MINI Cooper Prices Paid

imgdoc

Thanks kyfdx,
Do you advice using MINI select program or regular financing?

blueguydotcom

Regular financing - look to a credit union as BMWFS' current rate is not that special.

kyfdx

Ditto.. Those balloon finance programs usually come with high interest rates..

Finance for 60 months at the lowest rate you can find.. You may pay out a little more over the next 24 or 36 months, but you'll be ahead, once you sell the car...

Generally, I'm a fan of leasing... but, it has to make good financial sense.. in this case, I vote against it.

07mcs

2007 MCS Lease Pricing:

MSRP $25,500
Out-of-Pocket including first month payment: $2500
Payment: $291/35 months/36K miles/69% residual

Total paid in 3 years (less $300 deposit) = $12,385
Residual after 3 years = $17,595

Is that worse than financing if you buy and sell the car at lease end? Really?

I had a 2004 MC with Residual (62%) $13,200.
Total paid in 3 years was $11,745.
Bought at lease end and sold for $16,800 within 10 days. Cost of leasing for 3 years came out to be $8145.

backstep222

New to leasing and kind of baffled by it. Not sure if I am getting a decent deal here. If anyone can comment, I'd appreciate your input. Here are the terms...
'07 Mini Cooper S
Auto Trans.
Sport Pkg. (w/ web spoke wheels & perf. tires)
Premium Pkg.
Chrome mirrors, center arm rest, rear fog lamps, piano black dashbord
MSRP - $27,590 Selling price- $27,000 (JCW matts thrown in) 3 yr. lease/ 36K miles
$2500 total down... payment $345/mo. I'm bothered by the fact that they will not disclose the "money factor" (I have excellent credit....score 841 !!) Not sure how to translate it into an interest rate even if they divulged it to me. Am I getting hosed here?

blueguydotcom

Does that price for the payments include tax? And demand to know the residual and money factor. As far as I know it's illegal not to disclose those numbers to you. Check the fed and state laws but I think some kind of truth in lending law requires that the information be given to you. It should be clearly stated on the contract too!

EDIT: Can't find a law but I'd tell them you'll sign when they reveal the source of their numbers. There's zero reason for them to hide those numbers.

At the very least you can use leaseguide, your purchase price, payments, down payment and residual to figure the money factor.

stevecebu

The MINI Dealer is pretty far away from me about 2 hours and it's mostly highway with a lot of traffic depending on the day. There are only 2 dealers and they are either in Peabody Mass or Boston Mass and I will be way up in New Hampshire. How do MINI owners deal with this distance for oil changes or what if your car breaks down? There are closer BMW places but nothing for MINI and Edmunds lists nothing in the entire State of New Hampshire!
I've seen nothing on the MINI site to show otherwise.
So what do people do just take a day off of work or rent a car when you get the car serviced?
Also does anyone have any experiences with either dealership? I can't recall the names offhand but opinions are really welcome.
Thanks
Oh Hosts I couldn't figure out which forum to ask this question in and this one seemed the closest to the topic, move the question if you need to.

backstep222

The $2500 down includes the tax (I'm not sure what you mean when you say "does the payments include the tax?) The salesman told me that BMW doesn't reveal what the money factor is to him (sounded odd to me). He said he just puts my credit level in the computer, and it spits out the terms. There must be some truth to that, but some deception also. Meanwhile, I went to another dealership who wanted to sell me the same vehicle for MSRP without any discount. He just said to me "Is your credit over 700?" When I said "yes" he opened a folder and in it there were apparently 3 tiers of leasing terms written. He stated that the terms he was offering me were the best given my excellent credit score. Although I don't recall what he said the money factor was, I believe he said it equated to something like 7.5% (which didn't sound so great to me).
Anyway, back to the deal I currently have....I believe he stated that the residual was 69%....does that sound right? They have $500 on my credit card and the car has been ordered. I could use some guidance here.....thanks!

jaxs1

Sounds like lies.

Would you accept a purchase if the dealer told you "BMW does not disclose the interest rates" to him?"

blueguydotcom

The $2500 down includes the tax (I'm not sure what you mean when you say "does the payments include the tax?)

Some states you pay the tax on the whole car. Other states, you only pay tax on the payment.

The salesman told me that BMW doesn't reveal what the money factor is to him (sounded odd to me). He said he just puts my credit level in the computer, and it spits out the terms.

He's a prevaricator.

I believe he stated that the residual was 69%....does that sound right?

Yep, that's believable.

With 0% tax and $0 acquisition cost/doc fee I get the following:
MSRP: 27590
Cap cost: 27000
Residual: 69%
Extra fees: 0
Tax: 2500 (maybe he's rolling some fees into this?)
Money factor 6.5% or 0.00271
Payment: $345

backstep222

Blueguy....thanks for your reply. I do remember that I'm not being taxed on the whole car. So if I interpret your assessment correctly, it sounds like a decent lease agreement....no? Your opinion is important to me. Also, I must confess my vocabulary doesn't include "prevaricator". Kindly furnish me with the meaning....thanks!

90angrybees

One question - this forum seems adamant that at 3 yrs of age a MINI will retain a residual of 68-72%. Having looked at the private used market peole expect even more (~85% which I think they are nuts), but on this site Edmunds own "what does it cost to own" has the MINI value at 58% yr 3. That 10-14% is pretty big.
So, in a lease where MINI costs $25k 36 months duration and working on a 68% residual; the value of the car a lease end is 17k. So the lease is really an $8k loan, plus interest rate, right? $8k/36= $222.22/m Last dealer quoted $399/m

And the other funny thing, I have Honda lease - straight forward cost in, value out - no extra charges, no fees, etc. I am 3 dealers in negotiation and wow, my view, MINIUSA is old school worst scenario car dealing. Pity but thank god to sites like this.

And backstep222, your - $2500k tax = 9%.

kyfdx

You are still borrowing $25K...

If you want to compare it to financing... You are borrowing $25K and paying the loan down to $17K by the end of the 3yr term.

In other words, the average amount that is subject to finance charges is $21K

($25K + 17K) / 2 = $21K

Also, a Honda lease has all of the same charges as a MINI lease. It isn't the lease, it is the dealer that is adding charges..

Hope that helps..
kyfdx

british_rover

If you don't understand leasing then just don't do it.

Buy the car out right put down 20 percent and sell the car after three years.

You won't be hurt doing that.

plekto

In fact, with a Cooper S, if you get manual, the handling package, and not much else(in a good color of course), you'll get a very good - over 90% return on your money in three years.

This is perhaps the one case other than a true exotic or classic that you can buy a car and sell it for maybe $1000 a year less than you bought it for for the first three years. Leases as a result are a waste of money - your total cost to own a Mini is essentially your downpayment.

minimac1

I recently leased a MINI in San Antonio, TX. Having noticed that some posters to this forum were asking about tax on a lease, I will pass along my experience. The MINI dealer insisted that Texas law requires payment of sales tax on the full car price, and this was added to the advertised lease down payment. Although I got the car anyway, leasing is apparently not a very good deal between "pardners" here in Texas.

90angrybees

I think I do understand leasing. Mine was a post on the basics of finance and of employees.
Buy a $25k car with 20% - or 5k down and then in 3 year sell it at the 58% residual value - that is the Edmunds number off this site not mine - of $14,500 means I have spend $15,500. A $430 monthly cost.
My investments over the last 3 years have averaged 14.6% so I would lease and invest the difference thus gaining a positive return.

If, however, the market is like the 6 MINIs for sale near me: my example is the 2005 conv. at $33k which I compared to the exact same one I built on MINIUSA.COM for a MSRP of $35k WOW, I will pay cash! Oh, but those 3 cars have had For Sale signs on them for 3+ months now.

What leasing offers are great things. My intentions was
1. to understand the discrepancies in the form and the used car market where residuals are really strong and Edmunds own analysis which is at industry average; and
2. to communicate a disappointment in the professionalism of the MINI 4 sales people with whom I have interacted.

esgam

First off I'd like to say you guys are great! I've been reading your posts for 2 hours and have learned a lot. I'm in SoCal (LA) like many of you and I have a lot of questions so I'll try to keep this orderly.

I'll start out with the MCS I built online that contains all of the features I would ideally have that cost extra:

Mini Cooper S
Standard
Pure Silver Body/Black Roof
Cold Weather Package
Premium Package
Sport Package
Convenience Package
Sport Suspension
Limited Slip Differential
Park Distance Control
10-Speaker. Hi-Fi Sound System
Interior Surface Fluid Silver

Total MSRP $29,400

Accessory: Mats and Ipod Adapter ($425) (but hopefully the mats will be thrown in!)

***************************************
Questions:

1. Are the Sport Suspension, Limited Slip Differential and Dynamic Stability Control worth including for $500 each? Are any of them MUST have's?

2. Is there a noticable performance difference between the 16" and 17" wheels. Is it worth the upgrade to 17"

3. Has anyone gotten the ipod Adaptor. Does it work on the computer display as they say. (FYI, the Mini site allows you to choose ipod adaptor but when you print out your options it doesn't inlude the price in the accossory field. It marks it as $0. Odd.)

4. When the SoCal guys are looking at dealerships have any of you tried Sacremento or Concord to see how their deals are. I'm wondering if they might be more willing to bargain.

5. Do you think it will be possible to find a Lease for $350 a month or less for this $29,400 MSRP? Lease options something like, 36 months, 12K or 10K per year, $2500 down max. Credit Score of 869.

6. Are there any other Mini Discussion board sites that are worth checking out?

7. Does the CA tax make it cost prohibitive from going to Nevada or Arizona to buy/lease the car? Sorry if this question is naive.

8. Does the traditional "wait until the end of the month or buy on a Tuesday, etc." come into play with the MINI's? Or are they still so popular it's the same deal whenever you buy?

Thanks for you help. I will keep you all updated as my search begins. I promise to find you all the best deals possible in SoCal (or maybe a little further north.)

plekto

1 - sport suspension and limited slip are the ones to get. stability control is actually NOT desireable to enthusiasts. 90% of them turn it off anyways. Worth the money, definitely. Also, manual gearbox. Don't like it? Tough - learn, because automatic Minis are really really hard to move comapred to manuals with the better suspension and diff - which sell almost instantly.

2 - No. The 16 inchers are more than adequate for a car of this weight. In fact, 14 inchers would be adequate. 16 is already overkill and 17 runflats cost more money and are much harder riding.

3 - IPod adaptor is junk. Opt for the MP3 jack in the glovebox and then you can use whatever you want - or just play mp3s. I can fit 100-120 mp3s at 256K on a single MP3 CD. That's more than enough to listen to - and if I get bored, switch to another mix CD for a month.

4 - Nope. Buy exactly as you want for MSRP. Wait the 6-8 weeks. Enjoy.

5 - Buy. The new Minis will depreciate about 1-2K a year, tops, if you get a manual S with the performance only options.(think typical racer boy/enthusiast)

6 - Dunno.

7 - If you live in CA, there's no avoiding the tax. They'll get you one way or another.

8 - nope. Pay MSRP. Buy and wait for it to be built to your order.

cfilkins

Howdy guys...I just thought I'd share my shopping experience...

Here's what we wanted...
07 Mini Cooper
Premium Package
Sport Package
Convenience Package
Cold Weather Package
HiFi Sound System
Oxygen Blue w/ white roof/mirrors
MSRP $23,750

We got it for $23,250 (could have gotten it for $23,000 but would have had to drive 7 hours, and felt the extra $250 was worth the gas/time).

So my suggestion to esgam is to try to get quotes from other areas, say Phoenix or possibly Vegas, and see if they are willing to deal and take that back to your local dealer.

tica

I have had Minnie my Mini for nearly 3 months now.

MATS
Although the dealer threw in some of the carpet-style mats, I feel like the rubber ones are better, so I got some cheap ones to put on top of thye normal ones and they are too small and slip and slide. So I am going to get new ones. Can anyone recommend a good cheap rubber black mat for the front?

IPOD HOLDER
ipod holder: I have the aux jack and just plug my ipod. I was looking into the ipod holder but the only ones out there seem to be either
1) the radio tuner ones with you can mount and recharge while you are tuned into a station to play your ipod. My question is--can I use this and recharge WITHOUT tuning in and plugging in from the jack instead?

or

2) kensington has an ipod car mount, but it looks like it has adhesive that you stick to the window or dashboard. I'm a little wary of sticking something on, especially if it doesn't work that well and then leaves gunky sticky stuff that's hard to get off.

any comments/experience with either of these, or other recommendations to share?

BLUETOOTH
Love it, I don't have the phone recharger option, just the general bluetooth. Although I can hear perfectly all the time, my callers often say that they can't hear me too well. Anyway to improve on this?

thanks

cfilkins

I was reading a thread over at NorthAmericanMotoring.com about the bluetooth microphone actually being on the passenger side and pointing over that way...the posts in the thread seemed to indicate that it's relatively easy to relocate the microphone to the driver's side, and that results in improved sound quality...

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=102877

azorglub

1. Which dealership would anyone recommend bying the Mini at?
2. I'm in Fremont, and there's no real close dealership for maintenance. Can I drop off the Mini at any BMW dealership for maintenance?

pjo1966

I had asked my local BMW service department if they could do service on a Mini & they said no. Mini service needs to be done at a Mini dealer.

pjo1966

Speaking of service, does anyone have any experience dealing with the Mini service department in North Hollywood?

motoron

Pleasant and easy overall experience. Was able to work with salesperson over the phone who located car and obtained for me.

One problem (maybe): :surprise: I didn't remove the Blue gov't consumer sticker. By law, I think the buyer is supposed to remove it. I want it for my files. (OK. I've been called worse names over things like this)

Bigger problem. I bought 100k mile maintenance agreement on word from the finance guy that the car needed manual transmission maintenance and lots of other work and he wouldn't let me see the manuals. I've bought a few cars and always reject EVERYTHING the dealer trys to sell.

I'm I really stupid? (I can take the heat for stupid financial mistakes and maybe we can prevent others from doing he same. Fire away.)

rayainsw

"...he wouldn't let me see the manuals."
The manual is available on line in .pdf format...

british_rover

ne problem (maybe): I didn't remove the Blue gov't consumer sticker. By law, I think the buyer is supposed to remove it. I want it for my files. (OK. I've been called worse names over things like this)

You mean the Monrone label or window sticker? The detail dept always takes that off first and usually folds it up in the owners manual.

As for the service contract you can always call and cancel it if you don't like it.

kyfdx

Doesn't the MINI have the same included maintenance as BMWs (albeit for 3yr/36K)? How much did you pay for the maintenance contract?

socalfem

Why don't dealers go by what the kelly blue book says ? they seem to go lower, whats the point of kbb then ? I'm new here so I wasn't sure what topic to go on.
I have a 2003 mini :confuse:

jaxs1

They will go as low as anyone is willing to take. They are trying to make money by giving the minimum possible for a trade in.
If people are taking less than KBB lists, then they will give less.

motoron

No sure about what BMW's have. This maintenance agr was $1500 and maintenance req say nothing about clutch, as indicated by finance guy. Without that, it just doesn't seem like $1500 for basically rotors and plugs is worth it.

motoron

True, but at that point I didn't have access to the owner section of miniusa.com. (and didn't think I needed to open the computer)

socalfem

Thanks for reply.....so I should not take less than what KBB says ??

socalfem

also, I'm in a Neg. on my mini, what is the best way to go with that ?

motoron

Followup: The dealer quickly located it and provided it to me with apologies. Nice guys again. I have to give the sales crew an 8 of 10: I guess with every other new car purchase(6)there's always been something that they tried to squeeze. The only reason I can't give this dealer a 10 was b/c of the finance guy's (mis)guidance. That all said, this was a (mostly) cash deal, not a lease. $26650 +tx & lic & fees, MCS, 6-spd, w/Sport, Hi-Fi, LDS, Cloth & Color line, Auto AC, rear fogs, white turn sig, Auto dim mirror. No nitrogen air in tires and no dealer added alarm. Not exactly what I wanted, but I'm happy .

kyfdx

The $1500 must be some sort of extended warranty, or maybe an extended maintenance contract...

Either way, I'd pass.. Clutch wear isn't covered by warranty or maintenance, unless there is an manufacturer's defect. I'd bet that $1500 contract doesn't include it, either..

Good luck!
kyfdx

kyfdx

KBB is just a guide.. Most dealers go by Manheim auction reports, which they can access on-line. Plus, every used car is different.... Different mileage, options, wear and tear.. Pricing is more of an art, than a science.

If you want a good idea of what your car is worth, post a description of it, here: Real-World Trade-In Values

regards,
kyfdx

minicoopers

We all pay sticker price in Phoenix after being quoted premium prices in Vegas and SoCal. The dealer here won't even throw in floor mats but we do get a free meal once a year on them in conjunction with our dealer sponsored rally.
'03 MINI Cooper S (pre-turbo and pre-mushy ride)
Three-way Black
Performance Pkg.
Bone stock (except for having factory wheels chrome plated)
9800 Actual Miles
$23542.32 out the door (May '03)

blueguydotcom

~21k for a car that cost no more than 24k 4 years ago?

charlenevt

SO great to hear that you had a good experience with Universal! I'm getting ready to buy a MINI from them this week (hopefully tomorrow)! A friend of mine had a bad experience with them last year and recommended the one on Alameda Ave. in L.A. However, because of the time and traffic the other day, I decided to head over to Universal, which was closer.

GENERAL QUESTION: Has anybody/everyone received fun gifts from MINI upon their purchase? haha...my friend did, and I just didn't know if that was specific to the dealership she went to, or if it's a MINI-thing.

blueguydotcom

Has anybody/everyone received fun gifts from MINI upon their purchase? haha...my friend did, and I just didn't know if that was specific to the dealership she went to, or if it's a MINI-thing.

Mini just sent me a box filled with mini branded stuff - wallet, ball, pen, dvds, etc. Not sure what else as I tossed it in the garbage.

Karen_S

Go to our new Dealer Rater to post your sales or service review!

backstep222

Still have plenty of time before my Mini is going to be delivered and have done more research now in regards to my lease terms. I have now found out that my "money factor" is going to be .00335 which translates to an 8.04% interest rate. My credit score is 841 which is extremely high. Is there anyone out there who is knowlegeable in these matters and can tell me whether or not I am getting hosed here. It seems like a high rate. Any opinions??

blueguydotcom

with a high credit score, why not just get the car and a 5% loan. You'll save money and avoid BMW's lease acquisition and disposal cost.

backstep222

....Because in order to come up with a reasonable monthly payment I would need to make a sizeable downpayment which I am trying to avoid, thus.... a lease. I suspect that the bank probably gave me a better rate, but that the dealer tacked on a couple of extra percentage points. Although I have no way of proving this. I still don't have an answer from anyone out there.....is this money factor high given my excellent credit?

jaxs1

You could also get a long loan where the remaining payoff would about break even with the projected residual value after 36 months. (Maybe a 7 year loan?) The loan doesn't have to be obtained from the dealer. I they mark up the lease, they would do the same for a loan. You can check with your own bank and credit union, plus various online financing sources.
You can look up the projected residual value and compare it with the amortization table of various loans and see when the payoff and residual should meet.

blueguydotcom

Good advice. I know that my five year loan at 5% will easily make the car worth more than my payoff within 2-3 years. A 6 or 7 year loan probably could have leveled it off more.

backstep222

Still looking for an answer. Is .00335 (8.04%) a high number for a lease for someone with good credit, or is this on par with the norm?

plekto

Also, if you buy it, mileage, wear and tear, and all of the rest, plus gap insurance and so on doesn't apply. Now, this still makes it hard to get ahead with buying, except that the Mini hardly depreciates for the first few years.(provided you go light on options that is)

It will be worth about 75-80% of what you buy it for in 4-5 years, which is not the norm. So a long-term loan with a low payment will net you money BACK if you sell it off early. You'll come out better off than the lease because the car has an amazingly low depreciation.

http://www.intellichoice.com/reports/vehicleReport/vehicle_nmb/18196/2006/MINI/C- ooper
Best in class and highest retained value award.

note - Edmunds and most sites list an almost 50% depreciation in 5 years, yet the marketplace doesn't show that this is happening. I defy you to find a five year old Mini Cooper S for less than $13K that isn't either beaten half to death or a salvage title.

Market Price $21,135
Depreciation $10,789
Value Left $10,346

You'll never find a 2002 Mini for $10,346. Lol.

Cars.com has four of them are between 12-13K, nationwide. 10K? None.

Autotrader has nine, but only four of them aren't obviously listed as salvage or the dealer isn't playing games with you.(price reflected $2000 downpayment...)

10K - all salvage and "minor hit"/"easy fix"(front end looks like a steamroller ran over it) Or something silly like 120-140K miles.

Edmunds:
$21,200(no options cooper S)

Depreciation $4,009 $1,954 $1,721 $1,524 $1,368 $10,576

Residual:$10,674

Edmunds used TMV value:
$13,606

Obviously the depreciation data is FUBAR. Real-world data is suggesting that the Minis depreciate much less than you think they would, especially if it has manual and the handling/performance options. Doubly so if it has less than 50-60,000 miles on it.