2013 and Earlier - Jeep Wrangler Prices Paid and Buying Experience

SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
edited January 2014 in Jeep
Have you recently purchased or do you plan on purchasing a Wrangler? What did you pay? How did you negotiate?


  • bfoxvtbfoxvt Member Posts: 5
    i just got a 2003 X freedom.

    my experience was not as good as it should have been. the dealer had a markup of 4k on every wrangler and claimed that people still buy them at 5-6k over invoice. so i left after driving a sport, and deciding it was too expensive.

    Then a couple weeks later (aug2) i noticed that there was an additional 500 bucks rebate on them, so i went back, took another sport for a test drive, then quickly became dealocked again with the price. near the end he offered msrp, but i figured that was insufficient (as i did not want all the options on this jeep)

    so i said thanks for your time, but no thanks, got up and went for the door. then the sales manager guy came running out of his cage and asked me if he could make a different offer.

    i said what i wanted, and what i wanted to pay. basically under 20k after rebates, and it had to had to be at least at the X level option wise with air conditioning.

    so he said he would look around, and found the freedom edition which matched up ok with my requirements, and he gave me a price of 250.00 over invoice. so i thought that was reasonable (i also had 1900 in rebates).

    the jeep was a couple of counties over, so i could not take it home, so they let me drive off in a well stocked SE for 4 days.

    if i could have bypassed the first sales guy the experience would have been pretty nice actually, but the first guy ticked me off.

    my wife and i had already decided that we would make the purchase if we could get something less than 300 over invoice, before rebates. so in the end we were happy with the deal, although would have preffered to have the hour of our lives returned to us that was lost before the first guy disappeared
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I had quite an experience in trying to buy my Jeep two and a half years ago.

    I had done my homework, and I had found through the Wranglers discussion board here in Edmunds that it was fairly common for people to get a price of $200 over invoice. So, this was my objective... get $200 over invoice or better, and at the same time get a fair trade-in allowance on my practically new 2000 Grand Prix GT. (Remember, peeps, Edmunds does NOT include the Ad Fees in their invoice pricing, or at least they didn't back then. This is a legitimate part of the dealer's invoice cost, and it appears on two lines in the real invoice... one line for regional advertising and one line for national advertising)

    You can read about my experience on the web page I created for my Jeep. Here's the link:


    Long story short: it PAYS to do your homework, and it PAYS to shop around.


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?

    P.S. Let me get in a plug for good old Edmunds here. I found info here in Edmunds through the message board and through the vehicle pricing thing (where you "build" a vehicle and get the retail, true market value, and invoice pricing) that was invaluable in helping me get the right options and the best price on my Jeep. THANKS, EDMUNDS!

    P.P.S. Let me also get in a plug for Stacy Chrysler in Owensboro, Ky. That's where I got the great deal. Those people didn't mess around! Great price on the new Jeep and an unbelievable trade-in allowance on my car.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    I bought mine used from Cross Motors in Louisville, Ky. They quoted me a fair price right off the bat and even let me drive it home-a 50 mile round trip-to make sure that I liked it. Cross is a first-rate operation.
  • bmg132bmg132 Member Posts: 28
    Overall I had a great experience buying this Jeep. My dealer was very honest & up front w/me and everything he said would happen, did happen and all w/in the timeframes I was given.

    I wound up paying $600 over invoice. They were reluctant to discount me much at all since they still had/have a few '03s on the lot and started at $900 over. Fortunately we were able to reach a price that was agreeable for all, on a pretty option loaded Sport.

    I'm sure I could have gotten them a little lower, but $600 over actually worked out to be about what I had always anticipated & thought I should pay. And still below my cap.

    My dealer was Lenihan Jeep in Mt. Laurel, NJ. If you are in South Jersey I would go see them, I was actually refered to them by my neighbors at the shore, who live in PA an hour + away from the dealership.
  • jeeplessjeepless Member Posts: 5
    I designed a Jeep in my head years ago and when I heard about the Rubicon I researched it. It was better than I designed in my head, had every option I wanted for off-roading. It's not a practical vehicle by any means (for a guy with a family of four)but it's what I wanted. I tried dealing with no less than 5 dealers and an internet leasing company in order to get payments under my mortgage payments. The model and options I wanted came to $28k. This is a Wrangler not a Grand Cherokee. There was a $1000 rebate (that's it) and the dealers told me that the invoice price on Edmunds, Autotrader and others was "way off". I guess to make a long story short I bought a Ford Ranger Fx4 Level II which started out close to the same MSRP as the Rubicon for $20,400 after rebates, incentives and price dealing. My payments are much cheaper than any lease payment that the Jeep dealers offered and I own it. It's also more practicle with a bed for the home store trips. I'm thinking that I got such a good deal (depending on deprecation) I may be able to trade this in on a Rubicon in a year or so.
  • jefferson1964jefferson1964 Member Posts: 330
    I have been interested in purchasing a new wrangler and trading in my 98 JGC. I think what im being offered on my grand is fair. However, as i have been told by several dealers here in the DFW area is that wranglers are selling for MSRP minus current incentives since its "Wrangler Season" Of course ever time i have to laugh in the salesman face as its been over 100 degrees here for several weeks and i say who in there right mind will be driving with the top down in this weather. Im thinking of ordering from an online jeep place i found advertised which actually has very good prices and will only charge $300 for delivery. In Texas the auto industry is really messed up, IMO of course....
  • barresa62barresa62 Member Posts: 1,379
    I bought my 03 Black Wrangler Sport in Jan 03'. It's equipped w/the 30"wheel pkg (gas shocks, Dana 44, Canyon wheels), limited slip, 4 wheel discs, Hardtop/softop, A/C, cruise, mats. I got it for 3.5% over invoice (Costco deal in my area).

    The Wrangler has been great except the gas mileage leaves a lot to be desired but understandable given its lack of aerodynamics. Currently getting almost 18mpg w/80% hwy. All city driving has been between 14 & 15 mpg. Gotten a high of 22mpg on all freeway at about 70mph constant.

    Anyhow, my dealer was eventually good but the salesperson tried the $4000 over sticker markup and such. This was even after I told him I used to sell cars (get a clue dude....LOL). I was ready to walk except they had my car keys. Finally finished the deal w/the salesmgr.

    The dealership is Chrysler Town & Country in Seattle, WA.

    It's a Jeep Thang,
  • berg2berg2 Member Posts: 1
    Is 92000 miles for a 2000 Sport beyond common sense? This is a 5sp 4L, very clean. Selling price is 10900.
  • jefferson1964jefferson1964 Member Posts: 330
    IMO its sound very reasonable of course thats if its clean and in working order. However, you might want to go to www.kbb.com and enter all information on the one your considering and get an estimated price. This sight might have the same service as mentioned above so check here also. As for the mileage if the engine has been taken care of that should be fine. A good friend of mine has 150k on his cherokee I-6 and it runs good.
  • baj1106baj1106 Member Posts: 8
    I've been one of those traditionalists who always thought a wrangler was strictly for rural roads, offroading,and not for city dwellers. Im an urban city dweller and have a tahoe (too big for my needs, but a great deal on the buy) but have always been intrigued by wrangler possibly as a put-the-top-down and have fun weekend-er. Ive not driven one yet, and dont have unrealistic expectations about the ride, but I have owned chrysler products (93 grand cher, and 97 durango) with bad, bad results and swore them off forever. I've also checked pricing, and wonder if the sport / sahara models are fairly priced in the low-mid 20's, which seems high for a vehicle without a lot of substance or technology built in. these have to be big profit makers for jeep. also, I'd be doing freeway, 65+ mph driving and am a bit nervous about control and safety. I saw a girl in a wrangler few months ago do a quick swerve on the freeway just to get around a piece of tire, and almost lost it. she had to pull over to calm down. anyway, appreciate any input since im on the edge of considering. and if so, it sounds like $300 over invoice is the norm?
  • wheelsdownwheelsdown Member Posts: 250
    Have you visited the Jeep Wrangler Board? It is the one with 10,000+ posts and I think is listed just above this one in the menu.

    You won't believe how much information you will find there. Nice, helpful people.

  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Here it is! Jeep Wrangler

    tidester, host
  • wcampbellwcampbell Member Posts: 1
    I just moved to Tulsa and was looking at the new 2004 X type Wrangler. I went to Chris Nichols Jeep and there on the showroom floor was a 2004 YELLOW Wrangler with 2" suspension lift,32" Procomp Mud Tires, Nerf bars, Tube bumpers, 15X10 Chrome Rims, and all the features of the X model. I fell in love but didn't want to show it. As it turns out I didn't need too. The Dealer offered a very good price and also gave me the military discount (Retired Army). I also got a hard-top and a 100,000 mile warranty with $100 deductable. I am pleased to say my experience with Chris Nichols was GREAT. I must also tell you my oil changes for life of the Jeep are $9.95 at the Dealer. As a former US Army Sergeant I can tell you the Jeep Wrangler is an outstanding off road vehicle and the Dealership in Tulsa, OK (Chris Nichols) is an outstanding place to buy a Vehicle.

    William Campbell
    US Army Retired
    Tulsa, OK
  • chasingericachasingerica Member Posts: 102
    Well I'm not the best to ask about the price I paid but I'll list it anyway. Reason for not being the best it that I knew the owner of the dealership, he gave me the "friends and family" discount that was running (1 or 2% off invoice). Total price with tax was $25,900 give or take a dollar or two. Now that's 1200 under the stick that was on the Jeep.

    Needless to say I'm happy with my Jeep and will go back to that dealership any day.

    I was dealing with another dealer at the same time who had quoted me $22,900 on a Sport model with almost the same options.

    If you do your homework you can get a Wrangler for just a few hundred over invoice... I didn't believe it when these guys were telling me that but it's true.

  • borchone1borchone1 Member Posts: 14
    Just bought a 04 Rubicon
    Listed of $30260 and after 2000 rebate and military 500 rebate I paid just under 25000. Dealer said he was selling for cost less 1/2 of his holdback. He only did this after I shopped around and was close to another deal with another dealer who would sell at cost. I wonder how these guys make money. They must get extras from the factory for volume sales. Plus got 48 month interest financing.
  • baj1106baj1106 Member Posts: 8
    Cant believe this board has no activity since February!! I know people are reading this and buying wranglers...I posted on sept 24, '03 "to wrangle or not to wrangle?" and hoped for better response ..I'd be interested in hearing opinions fm owners who have to drive on xpressways and how wranglers handle the stop n go traffic, do you feel safe driving these in big city traffic, and pricing for an '04 sport with auto, decent equip,...anyone buy one lately?? anybody out there??
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    This forum is really just for buying experiences.

    Why not post your more general questions over on the very active Wrangler forum?
  • tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    Try this: Jeep Wrangler

    tidester, host
  • jlauxjlaux Member Posts: 2
    Baj1106, I'm with ya dude. I'm in the market for a Wrangler and have been cruising a lot of message boards and edmunds to research the different options and to check on people's experiences with buying. As far as driving a Jeep, well, you have to understand that "it's a Jeep thing", meaning, the ride is a little to very rough for normal people's standards but is juuuust right for Jeep lovers. I can say that they are great for big city driving in a lot of ways. First off, you'll be able to parallel park it in those places that you would only frown at before. If people hit your Jeep while parked, who cares....it's not going to do any real damage, i.e. no more going to the paint shop for constant "love tap" bumper scratches. Plus, they are solid in the snow and are topless in the summer. You can't beat that.

    As for pricing, well, I'm still learning myself. I'm wrestling with weather to buy a Sport or X type. Aside from the fact that they both have the straight six stock, I might do enough after-market additions that I'm debating weather to just get the X and do add-ons to eventually upgrade to the Sport. This way, you're putting exactly what you want on your Jeep and you can spread the costs out and probably get better deals on add-ons through other Jeepers at jeepthing.com or jeepforum.com.

    One thing I am also doing is looking on edmunds for new '03 or '04 Wranglers because with all the '05 stock coming in....the older new ones seem to be better deals.

    Needless to say, let me know what you find out about current deals or pricing. We seem to be in the same situation. You can reach me at [email protected]
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Hey, come on over to the Jeep Wrangler message board, as tidester and mac24 (and others) suggested.

    We have a VERY active board there, and we are always glad to "talk Jeep" and to give our opinions to prospective buyers.

    Jlaux, one thing to consider in your choice between and X and a Sport is that you cannot get a Dana 44 rear axle in the X. For probably 90% of Jeep owners this would not matter, but if you want to someday have big tires and a locker, you really need the Dana 44.


    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • coylzcoylz Member Posts: 2
    I am looking for a second vehicle since moving to Fl. Is a '92 Wrangler with 86,000 at the end of its life? It is well taken care of, but wonder what the future may hold for this type of vehicle. Also new tranny, brakes & exhaust...is that a red flag? Thanks!
  • charlie browncharlie brown Member Posts: 7
    was standing at the dealership when a transporter pulled up with a load of those long wranglers.i figuer they must ride a bit better than the regular so i ask the guy and he says he will sell it dam near at invoice right of the truck.i didnt even ask for a price.not to mention their were loads of new jeeps there.guess they gotta move them.
  • nugget49nugget49 Member Posts: 2
    I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a new Wrangler but was thinking that I would wait and see what happened when the current $1000 rebate expires on 7/6/2004. Anyone have any insight? Obviously I am hoping that gas prices and being later in the model year will work for me, but I certainly don't want to wait and have it go down.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    No one knows for sure, but bear this in mind. The previous rebate was $2000, then it dropped to $1000, and now we're coming into the 'hot' selling season for Jeeps.

    What would your guess be?

  • nugget49nugget49 Member Posts: 2
    Thanks for the input, if I could get that $2000 rebate I would be all over it. I know they now have the $1000 rebate and another $1000 if you finance through Chrysler but I want straight dollars. I think I will wait and see what happens, it has been 28 years since I bought my last Jeep ('76 CJ-5) so I can wait a few months on this one if I have to. :o)
  • jefferson1964jefferson1964 Member Posts: 330
    Just wanted to check and see what people are paying. Im in the market for one and the dealers here in the DFW area are saying sticker. I never pay sticker so im on the sidelines right now.....
  • robobonerobobone Member Posts: 1
    I am in Baton Rouge, LA and having the same problem. The dealer quotes I have received are right around what Edmund's says is the MSRP, but the dealer is saying it is under invoice. Is it possible to obtain a copy of the actual dealer invoice on a vehicle?
  • slices17slices17 Member Posts: 35
    I've been shopping for a Wrangler the last month. I went to a Jeep dealership in south Jersey last night. I got hooked up with that dealership via AutoByTel.

    When the lady initially contacted me a few days ago, she had said that they would charge me $100 above invoice, and any current incentives and rebates will be deducted from the vehicle's price. I think that sounded great. When I was there last night though, she told me that there were also "zone fees" I had to pay.

    Has anyone heard of these "zone fees"? I went to two other Jeep dealerships in my area and neither of them mentioned anything about "zone fees".
  • gman1259gman1259 Member Posts: 209
    I remember spmething about an extra fee when I bought by Wrangler. I do not remenber what they called it, but it was not very much.
  • hoytthoytt Member Posts: 1
    We've all got a story or two about dealer halftruths, lies, ripoffs, etc. I don't know what it is about jeep dealers, but they seem to be the worst I've dealt with.

    I had several jeeps, but recently wanted to add a wrangler. I wanted to get antilock brakes. The first dealer didn't have one in stock, so he tried to tell me all Unlimiteds have ABS. They don't.

    The next dealer had an ad that said "All Wranglers $4500 Off." Pretty sweet. So I contacted them, but they said that didn't apply to the Wrangler Unlimiteds. When I asked why an Unlimited wasn't a Wrangler with respect to their advertising, they basically starting saying I was insulting them. The guy asked if I was calling him a liar and I said if he wrote that ad or believes it, that's exactly what he is and worse.

    I just decided I'll keep my old car a while longer because I'm tired of dealing with all the crud and will sooner or later get my jaw broken.

    God bless the honest salepeople, but there aren't many of them.
  • jcjeepjcjeep Member Posts: 1
    Hello everybody, planning on purchasing very soon. Checked out an x because it seems to be in my price range however I have a question on the trannies. On some of the window stickers, the vehicles had listed on options a 3.73 tranny and on others it wouldn't even list it. I am familiar with the Dana44's however does the stock come with a 3.73 or a 3.07? Very confusing. Also, the vehicle that I was looking at had rear drum brakes, and I would rather have disc. Has anyone of you had drum brakes and if so any problems? Please Please help a person who doesn't know enough. Thanks.
  • wheelsdownwheelsdown Member Posts: 250

    You should take these questions to the Jeep Wrangler board. They will jump all over the answers. Nice people there.

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    Here's the link.

    Jeep Wrangler

    Steve, Host
  • hmbtxhmbtx Member Posts: 1
    I want to purchase a 2005 Wrangler SE 5 speed. I will be using it 95% for commuting to work which is 10 miles each way.

    Some weekends I will drive it on dirt roads in central TX but will not be rock climbing.

    I'm so old I used to own a 1979 Subaru Brat with 4wd high only transfer case and it worked fine for what I needed.

    What's your opinion?
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Check the link given by Steve in the post prior to yours.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,457
    Ask for Mtngal :-)

    Steve, Host
  • cr006fcr006f Member Posts: 1
    Well...am REALLY wanting to buy the Rubicon Unlimited and have just changed jobs (company car gone = Jeep buyin' time!) so I'm definitely in the market.

    Was hoping somebody had some advice on a good dealer in the York, PA area (or Baltimore, Philly, Harrisonburg, etc).

    Also, I've had some buddies that have had good luck at dealerships offering like $400 over the Invoice listed on Edmunds...anybody try this w/a Jeep dealer?

    Thanks for your thoughts!
  • tilejimtilejim Member Posts: 1
    I just ordered a Rubicon Unlimited with hardtop, auto, cruise, mats and locking gas cap from Darner Chrysler Jeep in Mesa, AZ. MSRP was $30,790 but got a price of $27,500 ($28,000 less current rebate of $500). Started negotiatons over the internet and the experience was less painful than I thought it would be.
    Incidentally, I asked the dealer what their price would be on a 3" lift kit and they said $3500. I went to a local off-road shop and got a price of $1100 for the same thing. Don't get anything from the dealer you can organize on your own.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Two points to keep in mind on the lift. First, was it the same make and spec lift kit your were comparing? Second, it's quite possible that the dealer fitting the lift would warranty the suspension, drivetrain, and steering components, that usually become a bone of contention if damage occurs. It's unlikely that the off road shop will cover anything more than just the kit components.
  • jefferson1964jefferson1964 Member Posts: 330
    I found a dealer offering a new 05 rubi unlimited on ebay. I called em up and had a chat, great guys, knowledgeable, upfront on pricing, taxes, shipping, etc.... I was able to pick one up that had a MSRP of $30,454 for $25,884. This included 3 discounts, 1)current $500 Jeep incentive 2)$500 Military Discount 3)DCX employee discount. At the time of the offer they said the dealer had several unused DCX green slips for the employee discounts anyone purchasing a new vehicle could use until the end of the year. I was able to purchase the vehicle at below dealer cost due to the employee discount. The dealer is located in Kokomo, Indiana and is McGonigal Jeep/Buick/Cadillac. They set up shipping to Texas for me and just gave me a quote, sent all paperwork Fedex, contracts were all in order with a terrific interest rate i was not expecting.
  • dirkpitt73dirkpitt73 Member Posts: 14
    anyone know if there will be a new (hopefully bigger!) incentive to replace the $500 that expired yesterday? Jeep.com, Edmunds, et all have nothing yet. thanks!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H EdmundsAdministrator Posts: 11,114
    You might ask in our Rebates, Incentives & APRs discussion. Car_man frequently has the scoop.



    Roving Host

    Host, Smart Shopper & Future Vehicles discussions


    Need help navigating? [email protected] - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Share your vehicle reviews

  • canman1971canman1971 Member Posts: 61
    I bought my 2001 Wrangler Sport in Jan of 2001. Just passed 36000 miles with really no problems. I got a pretty good deal on the Jeep, but had to sacrifice on the '01 Silverado I traded 6 months after I bought it, but it was well worth it. I'm considering trading it in for a used/newer model. I saw a '04 Rubicon with 10000 miles with a 22900 asking price, but I know they'll let it go for 19900. The sales guy slipped when I was looking at a car for my wife and that didn't work out, but I started thinking about the Rubicon. Any addidtional info on Rubicons would be greatly appreciated. I'm not sure if I want payments again since I paid off my '01 already. I guess it'd only be about 5-7 grand.
  • jefferson1964jefferson1964 Member Posts: 330
    I recently purchased a 2005 wrangler unlimited rubicon on Dec. 31. I had been search for a wrangler unlimited for some time with no luck in negotiations. I almost gave up trying and came across a new one at a dealer in Indiana, McGonigal. They were selling it on ebay at $4k under sticker, so i gave them a call. Nice folks to work with all pricing upfront, no games. The MSRP was $30,454. I was getting DCX employee discount offered by the dealer as i dont work for chrysler. Also, i recieved an additional $500 military discount and the current $500 discount at the time of purchase for a total of $4,567 off sticker at $25,887. They set up shipping to my home via FedEx Auto Transport and yes its FedEx to my suprise. Delivered to my door in Texas detailed, full tank of gas, keys, etc. all paperwork shipped overnight FedEx. The finance guy worked very hard to get the lowest rate available which was 1.5 points less than current rates offered by chrysler. I highly recommend the dealership and have been very pleased with my purchase. Check out Mcgonigal.com located in Indiana, i took a chance and came out happy.....Jeff
  • baddlord777baddlord777 Member Posts: 1
    Do u remember who your salesman was that u dealt with....? $25887.00 out the door ? What was on the jeep...Was it a Rubicon Unlimited ? sounds too good to be true......
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    Reminder - Names of salespeople may not be posted in the messages.
  • scottlscottl Member Posts: 109
    With the $750 rebate plus the $1000 Chrysler financing incentive (which you can pay off early)
    you can get some great deals.

    I saw an Unlimited Rubicon 6-speed with a hardtop for $26.5.
  • sunnymtnsunnymtn Member Posts: 3
    Hi everyone!

    Stumbled across this forum while researching a Wrangler Sport. So let me first say, thanks for being here! I've learned quite a bit already :)

    I've been seeing a lot of people talking about how they paid $x over invoice etc...

    Do these figures include the PPA and DAA costs?
    I'm a little confused (or very lucky). All the dealers in my area have given me quotes that match the edmunds TME invoice exactly - the only difference in cost is in the PPA/DAA (whatever they are: advertising costs?) Are these negotiable? It seems to me that these are the only numbers I can haggle over.

    In total it comes to just under $300 over invoice.

    And what about the incentives? Currently there's a $750 rebate, and a $1000 rebate if you use Chrysler Financial. In addition to the $500 military rebate - I stand to get a pretty good deal.

    So are these claims of $100-$300 over invoice including these rebates?

    I'm just trying to level the field so I'm comparing apples to apples, so given the above info, where do I stand? Am I getting it for $300 over? Or less?

    The downside is that with the options I've chosen, they will have to order from the factory. Which means that those rebates may not be in effect when it arrives. How can you sell a vehicle, and then change the price when the customer comes to pick it up? Seems rather shady to me.

    Thanks! and Happy Jeeping :)
  • schafuddschafudd Member Posts: 29
    I recently pruchased (picked 'er up Monday) a brand new 2005 Wrangler Unlimited. I picked it up at a local dealer, Patrick Pontiac, near where I work.
    I was treated amazing. They have a VERY professional staff and a very knowledgeable service department. There was no pressure in the sale (unlike my last vehicle purchase). Patrick is definately a first class operation.
    If any of you guys are looking and live in Western New York i would check them out the sales and service was just amazing. I would reccomend them to anyone!

    Happy Trails
  • iconoclasticonoclast Member Posts: 67
    They cannot change the price on you. When you sign the contract and order the jeep, that is the price you will pay. They can, in no way, up the price upon delivery..that's what the signed contract secures.
    Here in Colorado I can buy a Rubicon or any other jeep at $100 over invoice; actually since me and my company have purchased several cars from this dealer this year, we can actually pay invoice...they want to move vehicles off the lot. They still make good money on hold-backs from DC. They make their money on used cars more than on the new ones.
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