VW brand experience - good or bad?

isellhondas

Is that what it takes to sell cars?

Guess where those dollars come from...THE BUYERS !

zillz

They ARE doing a "Mark II" new Beetle. It will be here in 2006. I agree that if the New Passat is priced too high, you could very well see the same thing that's happening with the Jetta. And you're right---the Golfs won't do much-they are not a big seller here (although I like them). However, I'm beginning to think that VW's ongoing sales slump for the past three years is largely due to the novelty of the New Beetle wearing off. VWoA is at about the same level as they were just before the NB came out in 1998. It LOOKS horrible on paper, because they are at about HALF of where they were in 2001. The New Beetle brought nostalgic, emotionally driven people back to showrooms. Everybody that had an old Beetle wanted to see the "reborn" one. Then they said, "Well, I need a 4-door sedan. How much is the Jetta/Passat over there?" Sales skyrocketed to the highest levels in 30 years, and then everybody assumed VWoA would stay at those levels.They didn't. The New Beetle produced a halo effect, and now there's no model left to do that. If they would have produced the now-dead New Microbus, we probably would have seen another big rise in sales, even if it was temporary. I've read many accounts by people all over the Internet that say VW's "Bad reliability" has caught up with them, but I don't believe that, because ,as an example, Consumer Reports hasn't liked VW's since the 1960's. If people like VW's they're going to buy one regardless of what CR says. What has caught up with VWoA is more competition. Hyundais were considered to be junk ten years ago, and now they have made enormous progress in quality. I think VW will be okay once they get back to "realistic" sales numbers, i.e., 180,000-200,000 sales a year. I think the German execs know this, and they are intentionally shipping fewer VW's over here. However, an interesting meeting between Wolfgang Bernhard (VWAG's right-hand man) and Len Hunt (head of VWoA) is said to take place this coming Monday, June 6th. From what I've heard , admittedly via hearsay, is that Wolfgang is coming to listen to Hunt's grievances; the lack of low-priced Jettas and the lack of an entry-level model. In other words, I'm cautiously optimistic that at long last, we may finally see the Polo or Lupo over here, which would be a perfect competitor to small, inexpensive cars such as the Aveo, Accent, Elantra, etc. VW needs a low-priced economy car here, especially in light of the gas prices.We may see a shift in the Germans' thinking that America is the land of trucks and SUV's. My fingers are crossed.

nippononly

are pretty tiny, but I would love to see one or the other come here as an entry-level model for VW. problem is, they would still have to be shipped in, with the consequent profit loss for VW in the currency exchange. I think the end result would be a car that is very unlike the VWs people are used to here, and not in a good way.

Last I have heard is that a revised New Beetle is on again, off again. I believe that all that is planned for 2006 is a minor cosmetic redo - have they announced something different more recently? You would think they would dump that crap 2.0 now that Jetta has done so, and is using the new 2.5.

merc1

What I don't get about VW is that they want to go upmarket or be a "premium" brand by making a Jetta a 26K car and the next Passat a 35K+ vehicle fully loaded, yet they harp about sales being too low. I mean what am I missing here? You either lower prices and sell more cars or sell fewer cars are higher prices. It is hard and nearly impossible for VW to sell more cars at higher prices competing against the Japanese and Koreans. The Jetta is overpriced and the Passat (as nice as it will be) will probably be overpriced too. If the Passat does a Jetta in the marketplace VW had better start about re-thinking the whole U.S. operation. I don't see them reaching the sales heights of 1998-1999 without a entry-level SUV and something else totally different.

They do have such a vehicle coming, but like someone else said its about 2-3 years off and it hasn't been officially announced that it will be sold in the U.S. This new convertible "Concept C" they're saying will be priced between the Jetta and Passat. The Concept R sports car they haven't said much about yet. So they seem to have the product coming to sustain a turn around, but they really need to check the pricing.

M

davem2001

You either lower prices and sell more cars or sell fewer cars are higher prices. It is hard and nearly impossible for VW to sell more cars at higher prices competing against the Japanese and Koreans.

Yep, exactly! You can't go "upmarket" and simultaneously increase sales

nippononly

that at $22K, the Jetta still has plastic wheel covers. There is something very cheap-looking about a supposedly "upscale" compact sedan that even over $20K still has fall-off wheel covers.

As for sales, VW has stated it expects sales to fall somewhat, and hopes to boost per-unit profits instead. But did they mean a 42% decline? I mean, SOMEBODY has to buy them for there to be ANY per-unit profits.

jeffyscott

If I recall correctly, alloys are going to be standard for 2006 on all but the (not-upscale ) value edition.

nippononly

didn't someone say they are also raising the price for the '06 Jetta, or something?

jeffyscott

I don't recall seeing that...I thought the story was base prices would be about the same, they are supposedly deleting some other standard stuff while adding the alloys. I think it depends on what you want on the car. Eg. you might have to pay more if you want heated seats and don't care about alloys or less if you don't care about alloys but want heated seats.

chrisducati

VW has a large selection of cars from south of the border. The Polo would be just right to go up against the Aveo/Accent/Rio type car. While they have even cheaper cars than the Polo I do not know that they could pass testing in the USA. Check out VW mexico.

shiphro

Here's my analysis of VW. Overall I think they're doing okay, but they've got a (for me) fatal flaw. My wife and I currently own 2 VWs, but when it's time, we probably won't be getting a third.

VW Pros:
+ Upscale, ergonomic, interiors. Just beautiful really.
+ German engineering. As an engineer myself, I'm amazed at how many big and little things work 'the way they should work'. Sometimes the engineering is a little over the top or restrictive but overall it's a major pro.
+ Handling and braking. The VWs I've driven have been stable and responsive. Not to mention the brakes on every model are among the best in the class. My wife's Cabrio felt like it could stand on it's nose compared to my 'performance' Nissan 200SX SE-R w/ four wheel disks.
+ Price. You're going to get all of this for a very competitive price.

As an engineer I'm aware of the trade-offs inherent in cost-restrictive design. If you put in a great suspension, great interior and great features, something is going to have to give. As everyone has pointed out, VW saved money on reliability.

I'm okay with that, here's why:
1 - Overall reliability is still within my acceptable range.
2 - The things that they spent money on are important to me.
3 - It'll be fixed under warranty.

My wife's Cabrio has had some major problems (failed axle, rotted cat-back exhaust) and it'll be four years old in October. The major problems don't bother me as much as the way we were treated when dealing with local and national VW customer service.

I don't want a customer service rep to tell me that they're not going to pay for my car to be aligned after replacing an axle (true story). I want a customer service rep to apologize profusely for the problem and get it fixed.

Treating your customers (me) w/ disdain when your product (with known issues) breaks down is the quickest way to lose me as a customer.

mirth

Article on thecarconnection.com. Doesn't make me want to buy a VW:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Enthusiasts/Mechanics_Tale/Mechanics_Tale_VW_Heal_Thyself.- S281.A9081.html

carlisimo

How's the new Jetta doing?

I've heard too many horror stories too, from just about every modern VW owner I've known. I love the new GTI that's on its way, but it scares me too much to seriously consider it.

nippononly

Yikes.

fish8

I guess I'm a rarity. I've owned a '02 Jetta and now and a '04 Passat and never a problem.

carlisimo

Come to think of it, I haven't heard anyone complain about Passats, just the cars on the Golf platform (Golf, GTI, Jetta, Beetle, Cabrio) and Touauoaoaurreggs.

But my friends must be particularly unlucky, because it just can't be possible for most of the cars of one type to be problematic.

And in Europe, VW is still the generic car of choice. (Though if VW's troubles are as bad as they seem, the European market is going to be a repeat of what happened here during the Big 3's worst years.)

600kgolfgt

That makes two of us:

1975 Scirocco (250K)
1987 Golf GT (624K)
1997 Jetta Trek (currently own - 147K)
2003 Wolfsburg Jetta (currently own - 55K)
2003 Passat GLS (currently own - 35K)

Kirstie_H

A reporter is interested in speaking with former VW owners who switched to Honda, Toyota or Hyundai recently. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Tuesday, August 30, 2005 with your daytime contact info and a few words about your decision.
Thanks,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com

bpeebles

kristie, that question may get better responses from a Honda, Toyota or Hyundai forum. If somone has "switched" from a VW, they may not be likey to be here in VW forum.

I, for one, made the switch from VW to Honda in 1981. I am glad I am now BACK with VW and currently have 3 in the family. (Wife and 2 daughters each have VW)

meechie

I have a 2002 Jetta, and the front passenger window all of sudden fell completely down into the door. In order to keep the window up, I had to use Popsicle sticks to hold the window in place. When I arrived at the dealership, they mentioned that this “MIGHT” be covered under the warranty. NOT!!!! So $350.00 :mad: later, I find out that window regulators are a problem that most VW owners are having. Does anyone know if there has been a recall on window regulators for 2002 VWs

bpeebles

The window-regulators were DEFINATELY a recall-item. (not warantee!) There was a specific year-range which was covered. Do some research on the internet, I am certain there is more info available about the VW window-regulators.

Here are a couple websites that may help you.
(Check out TSB# 6402)

http://www.alldata.com/TSB/
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/

jrosasmc

Did you recently purchase that Passat? And is it a four or V-6?

Speaking of VWs, even though I'm a Volvo driver I love old cars and I'm thinking about getting an old VW from the late '80s to tinker around with and drive for the winter. Are the old Quantum Syncros a feasible choice when considering an older model?

newcar31

have a 2002 Jetta, and the front passenger window all of sudden fell completely down into the door. In order to keep the window up, I had to use Popsicle sticks to hold the window in place. When I arrived at the dealership, they mentioned that this “MIGHT” be covered under the warranty. NOT!!!! So $350.00 later, I find out that window regulators are a problem that most VW owners are having. Does anyone know if there has been a recall on window regulators for 2002 VWs

^There's one answer to the question posed in this thread. It sounds like your VW experience sucks.

All VW dealers are well aware of the window problems, yet they charged you $350 to fix a well documented VW problem. The windows are VW's problem and they should've stepped up and fixed ALL of those shoddy cost cutting window clips FOR FREE. If I had a Jetta or Golf, I would've went to the dealership and demanded that they fix ALL of the window clips and coils BEFORE they fail. The behavior of that VW dealership is absolutely inexcusable.

VW spent all of their money on the interior, but used cheap, low quality components in places that customers won't see.........like those window clips and bad coils, and then an unsuspecting customer like meechie is taken advantage of when these cheap, crappy components fail? Grrrrrrrrrr!!!!!

Sometimes I feel like VW deserves to fail in the US.

gagrice

VW is being honored again this year for it's treatment of older workers. I don't see the Big 3, Toyota or Honda on that list.

http://www.aarp.org/money/careers/employerresourcecenter/bestemployers/2005.html

chrisducati

VW deserves what it gets. What I can't understand is why a company would shoot itself in the feet... and they have shot both of them... for short term profits. My good friend has been trying to sell her Jetta for months. No luck. It is on its third factory engine, It has had all new fuel injection and a computer. The dash cluster had to be replaced .The HAV controls stopped working plus the drivers seat track is messed up at the moment.

jeffyscott

Actually VW sales were up in August. From http://media.vw.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=9680

Volkswagen of America, Inc. reported August sales of 23,083, representing a 1.6% increase when compared to August 2004 sales of 22,724. August 2005 sales represent the best U.S. sales month in the past year.

600kgolfgt

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_1507.shtml

carlisimo

I dunno. Auto companies pretty much have to defer payments because the infrastructure isn't there (electricity and data), nor are the customers. Trying to collect would be even more expensive!

Corporate donations of $500,000 have been common among car companies, and a couple have given $5 million. So... I know VW is doing a good thing, but it's not going to stand out as a PR move.

scott1256

Article in this week's edition of the Autoextremist.

The author feels that VW has seriously damaged their image in the US.

http://www.autoextremist.com/page2.shtml

600kgolfgt

Irrelevant? Methinks they're a step away from becoming extinct (see Renault, Peugeot, etc.)

gagrice

When CARB gets their head on straight and low sulfur diesel is mandated, we will see a real upswing for VW. Their TDI vehicles are second to none for the price. They have great power, handling and safety. Their gas engines forced onto them by our antiquated system of making a vehicle run good on crappy fuel, has held them back. I just talked to the dealer I bought my Passat TDI from back in April. They told me I would not get that kind of deal again for a long time. I wanted a Bug diesel. They have none and are crying for any diesel that VW makes. They are harder to find than any of the hybrids. So if you see a cyber green GLS Beetle TDI let me know.

nippononly

limits the number of diesel cars it brings into the United States, so that they are hard to find at dealers - why does it do this? Short of some regulation it is complying with, you would think nothing would stop them from bringing in as many as they could make, with the gas prices so high.

Was interested to see that the base Passat 2.0T manual will be priced low enough that the Jetta GLI with the same powertrain may actually have a HIGHER sticker. Yes, the GLI will have a more aggressive sport package, but I would have figured Passat would be a little higher.

Perhaps VW realizes from the new Jetta release that as great as they think their cars are, the price still has to be reasonable or sales will never get higher than a trickle.

jeffyscott

Was interested to see that the base Passat 2.0T manual will be priced low enough that the Jetta GLI with the same powertrain may actually have a HIGHER sticker.

Can't you build a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla that comes out more expensive that the base Accord or Camry?

The cheapest 2006 Passat is about $5000 more than the cheapest 2006 Jetta. That is larger price difference than there was between the base models of the previous versions...which was about $4400.

corvette

They have great power, handling and safety.

All that's missing is reliability! :lemon:

nippononly

"Can't you build a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla that comes out more expensive that the base Accord or Camry?"

Civic 4-door, no.

Corolla, yes, but that trim has the high-power engine with VVT-LI, actually has more power this year (2005) than the base Camry you could get at that same price tag. By comparison, the GLI and base Passat have the same engine (and aren't even that far apart in weight, whereas those two Toyotas are separated by about 500 pounds).

gagrice

limits the number of diesel cars it brings into the United States,

I think they did because there are 5 states that will not let them be sold including CA the biggest car buyer. I don't think they expected the surge in gas prices or Katrina to boost sales as they have. Do you believe that Toyota limits the import of the Prius to keep them in short supply & over priced? I have had at least a half dozen people stop me in parking lots to ask if I wanted to sell my Passat TDI. I ahve 3 phone numbers when it hits 7500 miles. The down side is getting another one if I sell this one.

Corvette:
Mine has been great for a little over 5000 miles. Too bad most of those reliable cars are so boring to drive.

bpeebles

VW has always limited the supply of TDIs to North America (even before the 5 states were banned) The bulk of VWs TDI buyers are in Europe so that is where the TDIs go.

VWs "saviour" could be its wonderful TDI engines. I really hope that the Dadge minivan with VW TDI engine arrives in time to save VW from doom.(in North America)

gagrice

Is Dodge going to buy diesel engines from VW? That V6 TDI would be a nice size with the DSG transmission.

bpeebles

No-- it is the other way around. VW and DCX (Damlier Chrysler) reciently struck a deal whereas VW will be using the Chrysler minivan chassis but putting a VW logo and engines in it.

If you recall, VW and Chrysler have a long-standing relationship... (the Dode Omni had a VW engine in it.)

gagrice

Actually VW and MB have very nice vans they sell in Europe. Too bad they never make it here with diesel engines. I think VW does also sell the MB Sprinter with VW logo on it. What ever makes money is the name of the game. I'll be watching for that diesel minivan.

nippononly

so, I saw the Jetta GLI last night, and to be honest I was not that impressed. You still pay extra for the moonroof, which in the car I sat in was part of a package that brought the sticker up to almost $28,5. More than $28 thousand for a Jetta? That's POWERFUL territory pricewise, it wouldn't even be in my top five among cars at that sticker.

Base price is $24,4, which makes me wonder how they will sell any 2.5s with packages 1 or 2, as both will be almost the same price or actually cost more for the same equipment levels.

That said, I understand there will be a regular Jetta available later on with the 2.0T, and it seems like that would be the one to get, provided it came with alloys. The moonroof should be a stand-alone option (maybe it is, and dealers just don't order them that way for standing stock?). Or even the Golf 2.0T, which will be coming in a little over a year.

They had an '06 Passat sitting next to the GLI, similarly equipped for almost EXACTLY the same sticker price. These VW sedans are getting pricey!

mirth

...very pricey, but they had styles and interiors that were really unmatched. Now the competition has gotten a lot better, so the step up in price for a VW is no longer justified.

For myself, I almost bought an '02 Passat with the turbo 4 over an '02 Maxima, but I got a lot more in terms of power and space for my money with the Max, so VW lost out.

jeffyscott

so, I saw the Jetta GLI last night, and to be honest I was not that impressed.

I am shocked, shocked I tell you. I never would have thought that VW would make a car that Nippon Only does not like. :P

nippononly

silly! Actually I have had some VWs over the years I liked, but all of them go back a ways now. I watched friends have BIG problems with VWs in the 90s and swore them off for myself.

VW makes a car I just LOVE. It is called the A3. I wish I could bring myself to buy one. With the gas roller coaster this year, I have decided to swear off all new car purchases unless the car in question can do better than 35 mpg combined. Which of course, no Audi can. Or VW, except the TDIs, for that matter.

carlisimo

If combined mileage includes pushing, you'll do great with a VW =]

(ducks)

nippononly

It's a complicated formula - take EPA fuel economy rating, subtract 1 point for every half hour per month you have to wait for a tow truck, then add in 1/10th of a point for every mile covered on the tow hook consuming no gas at all! :-P

But seriously, for VW fans, I do apologize. VW does have some problems in this area, but they are nowhere near that severe.

gagrice

But seriously, for VW fans, I do apologize

No need to apologize. I would be willing to bet there have been more Toyota Prius towed to the dealers in the last year than VW TDI's.

nippononly

the nine cars that stalled because of a software glitch? You're right, it must be more because that is more than all the TDI sales this year! :-P

I gotta stop, gotta stop. I think VW should try to bring more diesels into the U.S. - the TDI is the best bargain in the Jetta/New Beetle/Golf line-up.

gagrice

I agree I would not buy any of the gas VWs. I did not like the power curve on the 1.8L Passat. I don't know how the gas sell compared to the TDI. I know you can get all the gas VWs you want and wait in line now for the TDI.

PS
Last I checked the ODI site, they were up to 53 stalled Prii. It was at 33 when they opened the investigation. They may have it resolved. Though you still see a report now and then. Wait until next year when they are all built in China.

carlisimo

Does anyone actually know what percent of GTI's have problems? And if it's true that German-built Golf variants do better than Brazilian ones?

My stupid short list of cars ("stupid" because it's been forever since I thought I'd be able to a buy a new car soon - but this time the finances are working out) has the Mazda3, Scion tC, and new GTI on it. I don't know any GTI owners, but I do know Golf owners and their experiences really are that bad.