VW brand experience - good or bad?

turbotorque

I have leased two Passats over the past six years, and the experience has been positive. The first Passat had various minor gremlins, but nothing that left me stranded. It also burned oil.. but with a lease, it didn't really bother me.

The second Passat has had fewer problems, and doesn't burn oil. I had been pretty set on buying out the lease, but the various horror stories have given me a pause. If don't buy out the lease, I will almost assuredly get another VW.

Perhaps the key to happiness is only keep 'em while on warranty?

asafonov

Passat Wagon GLX V6 Automatic to the Toyota Highlander Limited, Honda Accord LX...
For the Passat vs. Accord, was that a fair comparison? The GLX is the top Passat, while the LX is the "bread-and-butter" Accord - can't get sunroof, leather, NAV etc. on it.

audionut1

My passat is chipped with a bar 1.0 (1 atmosphere) Wett chip...14.7 psi boost...netting 205hp/250 ft. lbs. torque. I replaced the diverter value with an Audi TT DV to handle the extra boost. Mileage is at 41K and the passat has been very reliable. The only issues so far...dash rattle and a sticky recir button...my VW dealer replaced the entire dash and the hvac panel under warranty...fantastic. I have had no other problems.

The 5spd 1.8T with the Wett chip is a joy to drive...smooth and powerful. The difference between 166 ftlbs and 250 ftlbs is dramatic...the power differential is night and day.

A few extras that I have added include...
>VW GLX rims with michilen pilots
>passat W8 dome/sunroof controller (buttons&sunroof control are backlit, plus 2 led projectors providing ambient light to the stick..very cool)
>vw oem sport aluminum trim from the european passat sport package, very similar to the US Audi interior aluminum sport trim ...not the stick-on junk from vw drivergear
>Shift knob from a 2004 european A4...super super nice and uses the same connection as the passat factory knob
>VW new beetle sunglass holders..replaces the front grab handles
>XM roady2
>VW euro triangle...factory bracket and triangle which installs under the trunk lid...see that molded triangular impression under our trunk lids...euro passats have a warning triangle installed there...US Audi sedans have this same triangle installed from the factory.

dblagent

I drive a 04 VW and so far I have not had a very good expierence with the car. I'm at 5k and it's been in the shop three times allready. My mother-in-laws Neon is better than this! Maybe it'll be fine from now on but only time will tell. A little more quality control seem to be in order - I still have electrical gremlins with the power windows and stupid seat belt chimes for phantom passengers. I want to se how the new Jetta fares when released.

zscottie

In the market for an Outback XT, after driving my current car (98 Legacy GT Limited) since new. A brother of mine bought an 04 Passat 4motion (1.8T)...loves it. Both cars are nice...part of me would like to experience a European car, but am wondering about long-term reliability....since I've been in Subaru since 92 (previous car was 92 Legacy L). Anyone else pondered same situation?

Hard choice for me...thanks!

corvette

Outback XT? Is that that station wagon thing with the pickup bed on the back? Like the Avalanche? In all seriousness, the Passat and Passat wagon are more comparable to the Legacy and Legacy wagon than Outback XT. The current Legacy is more Euro-like than the previous models, but I understand not wanting another one.

Subaru has it all over VW in the long-term reliability department. Plus there seem to be fewer gripes about Subaru dealers.

kenjabi

corvette - Looks like you're thinking of the Baja. The Outback is very similar to the Legacy wagon, just a little bit bigger and sits a little higher. Outback XT has the same turbo engine as the Legacy GT sedan and wagon.

corvette

Right you are... Legacy and Outback are the same animal, so my comments about the Legacy apply.

taft4

I had a Subie 03 Forester which I didn't like because it was noisey and hard riding and so I traded in on a Passat sedan V6 after just 18 months. However the Subie was trouble free.

But there is another Subaru value that is usually missed in these conversations and I think one is of real value. Subaru, in conjunction with Chase Bank, has a credit card that accumulates points on all your purchases. They give a 3% credit on each charged purchase and everytime that accumulation hits $100. they issue what they call a Subaru buck in that amount. These bucks accumulate and can be used towards the purchase of a new car, or they can be used for service and parts at a Subaru dealer. I had accumulated $500.00 (5 $100 bucks) during the time I owned my car. Unfortunately, in my case they were a waste because I traded out of that line. They also were not transferable to anyone else and they were not usable for other things. Nevertheless, even with some of their limitations I thought they were a great deal especially as the car got older.

ijiwaru

I have a 2002 Jetta GL with 44,000 miles. Since new, it has used one quart of oil every 1,200 miles. The two dealers that I have questioned tell me that this is normal. Any comments as to (1)whether this really is normal and (2)what is recommended when the warranty expires? My last car to use any oil was a 1970 Chrysler.

bpeebles

This is not abnormal. Check the oil often and keep it topped off and the engine will outlive the body of the vehicle.

 

Here is the official TSB from VW about this subject.

 

http://pics2.tdiclub.com/members/dieseldorf/PDFs/oil%20level.pdf

 

 
From the research I have done on this subject, the root of the issue seems to be improper breakin procedure when the vehicle was first purchased. Some people do not leave the special breakin oil in the engine long enough, some people "baby" the engine so the rings do not properly seat.

 

In any case, it is not a problem unless you allow the oil to get too low.

 
I hope I do not have to tell you that if you allow the oil to get low enough that the oil-pressure light comes on that imminent engine damage will occour. (you will have a nice boat anchor under the hood)

newcar31

I remember hearing something about the oil rings being installed incorrectly at the factory.

 

"In any case, it is not a problem unless you allow the oil to get too low."

 

Burning oil like that CAN'T be good for the catalytic converter.

 
Also, the only thing that TSB shows is how to do a consumption test. It says to fax the consumption sheet to VWoA for "further instructions"

bpeebles

"Burning oil like that CAN'T be good for the catalytic converter."

 

It is a good thing that the catalytic converter is covered by FEDERAL warantee for 10years 100K miles. (in the USA)

newcar31

I guess?

 

I wouldn't wait until the catalytic converter starts to go bad. They go bad gradually, and gradually decrease performance.

 

I'd take it in and get it fixed. A quart every thousand miles is excessive and WAY out of line for a modern gasoline engine.. If they don't fix it under warranty and tell you it's "normal", I'd try to find another dealership, or I'd sell it and never buy another VW again. That's just me though.

newcar31

By the way,

 

I suggest you do a google search on "vw 2.0 oil consumption" or visit "myvwlemon.com" or "vwsucks.com" and search for oil consumption on those sites.

driftracer

VW lemon law cases concerning oil consumption - there's a factor most people don't consider. VW published its standard for oil consumption as "OK" or "normal" at 900 miles per quart. Here's the catch - since they provide a warranty on the vehicle, and they say it's OK to burn a quart every 900 miles, you can't effectively sue them under any state's lemon law or through Mag-Moss unless the burn rate is greater than 1 quart per 900.

 

They provde the warranty, they get to set guidelines for their "standards" as well as their maintenance requirments.

newcar31

"VW published its standard for oil consumption as "OK" or "normal" at 900 miles per quart."

 

That's crazy.

 

I've had 7 cars and NONE of them used anywhere near that much oil.

 

Actually, the only car I've had that used oil was my 91' Mustang 5.0L and it was modified. It used 1/4 to 1/2 quart per 3000 miles.

driftracer

the standard for just about every other manufacturer is one quart per 2,000 or 3,000 miles.

 

VW just lowered their standard a few years back, and since they provide the warranty, they get to make the rules.

600kgolfgt

Something must have gone wrong during the manufacturing process after 1997 - My 1997 Jetta's 2.0 Liter engine doesn't consume any oil (it's now at 123K miles). I bought the car with 85K and used synthetic oil and the OEM filter from the dealer right from the get go, and the engine is still as tight as ever - and I take it on a daily commute of 85 miles one way (total of 170 miles a day).

newcar31

You see, that's what doesn't make sense.

 

If some don't use any oil, and some burn oil like a diesel, then I don't know how VW can say it's "normal".

 

Using little to no oil, and using a quart every 1000 miles is quite a variance.

driftracer

is that they get to say what is "normal", whatever that may be, because they set the standards for their product.

newcar31

I know, but I don't care.

 

If I had a VW that used that much oil the fact that VW says that it's "normal" wouldn't put me at ease.

 

Seriously, the 2.0L holds, what, 4 quarts of oil? Do the math. Burning 1 quart of oil per 1000 miles with 5000 mile oil change intervals. Sooo....if you don't check your oil between changes, you'll run the engine dry and blow it up? That's "normal"? Screw that. I do check my oil, but I know a lot of people who wouldn't unless the "check oil" light came on. I wouldn't buy a car that hold 4 quarts of oil while at the same time burning 1 quart per 1000 miles is considered "normal". There are plenty of cars available now that don't use oil like that.

driftracer

what if you take a long trip? what if you only check your oil every 4th tank of gas?

 

I don't, but I'm sure people never even open the hood, except to add some washer juice when the tank runs dry...

 

I agree that it's wrong, and no engine should consume like that - my point was from a legal perspective, though, indicating that we can't sue them under the lemon law or for breach of warranty when they set the standards...regardless of how cheesy those standards may be.

mirth

Next question would be, what do they put in their maintenance manual? Do they say to add oil every 900 miles? What's their recommended oil change frequency? And what would be the damage to the car for a person who changed their oil say every 3600 miles but never added oil in between? If this caused significant damage before 100K miles, VW would lose a fair amount of future customers.

fintail

From the owners manual of my fintail

 

driftracer

Their covered well there - the manuals say to check oil "often", and recommends checking it at every fuel stop or once a week.

ijiwaru

Thanks for the comments (mirth, bpeebles, newcar31, driftracer and others). One dealership pointed out that this is the reason the manual says to check the oil at every gas fill-up. The TSB was interesting and implies that there is a problem. The comment that VW make the rules is true and, as it is "only" one quart per 1,200 miles, it's probably not worth pursuing any further. I have had four Toyotas and it looks like it will be five when I replace the Jetta.

corvette

>>> What's their recommended oil change frequency? <<< 10,000 miles on regular oil for the 2.0 liter engine. Rumor has it that the oil consumption issue is corrected in the current models. If you went XXXX miles between changes without checking the oil, you might get a low oil pressure warning light when you get down to a quart remaining in the crankcase.

mirth

10,000 miles on regular oil!!??? Are they nuts?

boaz47

Look on the bright side. With the kind of normal oil consumption VW suggests you would never have to go back to the dealer for a oil "change". You could simply point out you had "normal" oil burning and you never got 4000 miles worth of old oil in you car. I wonder how all that oil burning effects air quality?

corvette

10,000 miles on regular oil!!??? Are they nuts?

=================================================

Some of the GM vehcles go longer than that based on their Oil Life Monitor. The distance is similar to that of the few cars in Europe that still specify dino oil--the synthetics go 20,000 or so.

fitguy

My advice for anyone considering a VW purchase. There are always a few devotees who will say they have had great reliability & experience with VW's (and I believe them) and those who will say quirks are the price for a European driving experience. Get on any forum dealing with VW reliabilty and service and you will get the real deal from a significant # of owners:

VW builds a crap product and has an arrogent dealer service network. I owned a 2000 Paasat 1.8T and it was a freakin' nightmare- way more problems (and serious one's, like oil sludge) than any other make I've ever owned. And the dealer service sucked, period. I would buy an American car (gag- I never thought I'd say that) before I'd buy another VW. I went back to Honda, now to Mazda and they have been absolutely trouble-free. Until VW pulls their thumb from their a** and fixes their quality-control issues (and dealer-quality issues) it is not a brand worth considering.

fish8

Sorry to hear about your bad experience with your VW. I totally agree. VW has some major quality issues to deal with. BUT, as far as the oil sludge issue, if the dealer's recommended service interval is followed, oil sludge should not be an issue. If it is an issue and you have followed their recommended intervals, then your 1.8t engine should be covered under an extended warranty. Then again, VW may not be willing to fix or replace your engine for some odd reason.

 

Good luck with your Honda and Mazda. The Honda, I'm sure, will be a great car. The Mazda on the other hand....my family has had reliability issues with Mazda's in the past so, I will not pass judgment at this time.

ved

Is it that dealers are arrogant or is it the corporate culture. It seems to be very convenient to point out the dealers...but the philosophy seems to be lacking. How about a $97.00 oil change???? The dealers and the staff seems to be oblivious to customers perception because the organization is headed like that. I would not recommend anybody buying a VW. A honda or any other America car would certainly come with a lot less arrogance along with lot less cost.

fitguy

Thanks for the support- I've never owned a Mazda and am keeping my fingers crossed. The '04-05's seem to be doing very well- I have 3500 mi w/no problems. Plan on keeping it and giving to my daughter in 3 years; hopefully I won't be appearing on the "problems" forum next year blasting Mazda. The Honda is gone (traded) and while I like the handling of the Mazda better, I sure do miss the 33 mpg hwy of the Honda!

mjtian

After 2 Toyota Camrys and a Ford Taurus, I decided to go the German route and purchased a new 2004 VW Passat GLS 1.8L Turbo when the dealers here are discounted the vehicles. I was wondering if the 1.8L Turbo in my new Passat is the same 1.8L Turbo in the Audi A4? I know that VW <--> Audi = Toyota<-->Lexus.

  

Also, does anyone have any suggestions on wether or not I need to purchased the 7 year extended warranty? I never needed extended warranties with my Japanese vehicles, but this being my first experience with the Germans, I am not sure on that issue. Thanks!

andys120

Yep, the VW 1.8T is the same motor found in Audis.

bpeebles

In fact, your Passat 1.8L Turbo engine IS the Audi engine. (VW does not manufacture the 1.8T engine)

dolphin

Just picked up my 2005 Passant TDI Wagon from Kuhn in Tampa, and they gave us excellent treatment.

mjtian

Thanks guys! I guess at $17,995 I found myself quite a bargain! Any suggestions on the extended warranty?

sandpaper

Illinois and Wisconsin residents - listen up!

 

http://www.vwitc.com

 

Standard Feature #51. The Golf, New Beetle and New Beetle convertible are equipped with one year of automobile insurance coverage at no additional charge.

  

Yes, you read that right. Get a new car, and we'll pay the insurance for a full year. It's our way of saying "Happy New Year". But only if you hurry, because this deal only lasts until March 31, 2005.

 

http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/03/pf/autos/car_insurance/

 

Apparently, VW is testing this program during a 3 month period to grudge consumer interest. If this test is successful, VW may release this nationwide and other manufacturers may follow suit.

 

I know for a fact that Hyundai has a similar program in the UK, which has been very successful.

 

If this was available for Washington state residents, I would probably buy a new VW immediately. I crossed VW's off my list of cars due to their questionable reliability, but free insurance would be too good to miss out on!

fintail

Most mass market companies have a scheme like that in the UK, and I think on the continent as well. From what I understand, it's been a success.

 

I don't know if it would get me though. I insure two cars for far under $1000 a year...it's not a big deal relative to the price of a new car.

seminole_kev

well that and there still is no such thing as a free lunch. It's coming from somewhere.

dclurker

Speaking of VW corporate arrogance, my daughter bought a new Golf in 2003. As I was perusing her owner's manual, I came upon the section regarding replacement of burned-out light bulbs. Instead of listing the bulb types needed, the manual implied that owners were too stupid to do this themselves and should bring the car to the dealer (and pay an exorbitant price) to replace bulbs. My daughter's Golf ran well, but after 18 months/30k miles she got tired of topping off the oil (2.0 engine) and traded it in on an Acura RSX.

jasmith52

Well have you really looked at replacing the headlight bulb and is it intuitive how you do it ??

 

I work on cars quite a bit, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out how to replace the burnt out headlight in my wifes New Beetle. I now know, after some research, how to replace the headlight bulb but it was not at all clear initially.

 

Fortunately, the burnt out bulb was covered under warranty at the dealer.

 

The advice in the owners manual is, for most people in my opinion, justified, at least for the New Beetle design.

driftracer

many warranties include bulbs and other wear items, so at $20 a whack, why not swing by the dealer and get it for free?

 

I just put Silver Stars in both vehicles - on both the truck (04 Dakota V-8 4x4) and the car (Ion Redline), I had to remove the entire headlight housing from the vehicle - it isn't like the old days where you do the quarter turn thing and pop the bulb out, or with sealed beams where two screws and a metal ring was all you needed to play with.

 

I'm ASE certified and have been working on cars since I could see over the hood, and I'm now 41, and both jobs weren't easy for me - most people don't even know how to check their oil, so no, I wouldn't want to be the manufacturer and trust someone to change a light bulb.

boaz47

are on vacation miles from your dealer isn't it much easier to just pop in to a Autozone? I can't believe that VW dealer service has improved to the point that if you just drove up to a dealer they would pop you right in to get a bulb replaced?

driftracer

VW dealers are still some of the worst to deal with - you'd think you were trying to bring a Fiero/Testarossa kit car into a Ferrari dealer...

dclurker

Granted, burned-out bulbs are not a big thing but I felt VW's unwillingness to at least offer the option of doing it yourself was indicative of a corporate attitude that said "Our German-engineered cars are so superior that you ignorant owners are lucky we let you drive them." Perhaps that's too harsh, but it's the impression I got.

seminole_kev

which is interesting because the German's used to be noted for how everything was well layed out for servicing and how, from the ground up, serice requirements were always at the top of the list for concerns. I used to love reading about some of the design features that were built in to their WWII aircraft for servicing. Very interesting stuff. Seemed to carry over to their cars for some time.

 

I always hated working on aircraft systems where some engineer had never thought about service requirements when it was built. Design engineer - "Hey, lets put the highest fail unit back behind this fixed panel and put all the never fail units around it. And for the hell of it, just JB- weld this sucker shut while we're at it. MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!"

 

Huh, what? What's going on?