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First, car sales in 2004 are down in total relative to 2003.
Second, look at percentage changes. VW cars are in the middle of the pack.
A Pity, as some of their engineering is truely fine (like those hydraulic rear suspension bushings Chevy has copied for their new Cobalt). Perhaps VW feels the design, not the execution, is the most important feature?
But to be fair the Passat remains about average or slightly better. The coming redesign will tell boatloads about VW's seriousness re quality.
Part of the reason for the high service costs is that you will require an independant who is familiar with VW's. The only places that changed the oil in my Jetta were the dealer and myself. Most cars don't have a cartridge filter that must be drained before removal, or an underbelly pan that must be taken off, or o-rings that must be changed, each time the oil is changed. Dealer service on any make is going to be a bit expensive. The difference is that it's no trouble to have my oil changed at a carefully-selected discount store, if I'm driving a more common car like a Camry or Taurus, so I'm not paying $55 for my 10,000 mile interval oil change and wheel rotation. (By far the cheapest of the VW services - figure $170 for the 20,000 and $350 for the 40,000.)
Most service schedules are pretty simple nowadays, like VW's 10/20/40/repeat. My Altima is 7500 oil and tire rotation, 15k pollen filter, 30k air filter, 60k coolant (30k thereafter), and 105k spark plugs.
As for finding an indie who is competent to service VW's, I had no difficulty using the guys I've used for many years. These cars are hardly exotics, not a great deal unlike similar cars of the same age. Any shop with the appropriate equipment to scope a Camry and an Accord will be able to handle a Passat without any difficulty. Those without such equipment aren't in the business. What one must look for is an independant mechanic who has the integrity to find out what the vehicle's specs are and order tha Mann filters or whatever are required for the car. Mine stock them for me.
20K/40K Service: You are correct...most of the items done at these services are all "checks". I know they advise you to change oil/filter, cabin air filter and rotate tires. I believe at the 40K they advise you to replace spark plugs, air filter and brake fluid at the 2 yr mark despite mileage.
VW has book rates for time on each service, and dealers will generally multiply the allotment by their hourly rate to obtain the labor charge for a particular service. If the 40k takes two hours x $90 per hour, it's $180 with no parts. I think the book rate is more like 2.5 hours, but you get the jest.
1. What is VW's policy on the returned car in terms of "reasonable wear and tear"? Similar to a lease?
2. What are the implications for the car's registration? Insurance is easy to convert. But will the local DMV try to charge a tax for the "new" car?
Thanks,
Frank
My question, being in the lemon law field, why would you want to get bitten twice? Next to Kias and Hyundais, the cars I see the most are VW products, and that speaks volumes given their relatively low sales volume compared to other cars in the market. Can't you opt for the money instead, and buy something else? Most state lemon laws allow for either/or, being buyback or refund.
The fact is, I'm totally shocked that VW stepped up and is doing a buyback without a year's worth of litigation - that's the normal case here in the Northeast.
I just purchased a 2004 Passat GLX wagon with 4motion. So far this is a fantastic car.
Beyond that, I'm a very happy camper.
Re the oil sludging problem, I have mostly used synthetics since around 20 or 25k miles. A few times a shop used Castrol turbo oil (non synth). I change my own every 5k or so miles. I have now switched over to one of the specifically recommended synth oils (Mobil 0w40).
I'm hoping to go at least 250k miles on the car.
Any condensation in the lens? If not, check the grounds & other connections. I know this was a problem on the Beetles.
Anyone that ignores using the recommended lubricant (full synthetic engine oil) or fuel (premium) should not complain very loudly.
One reason I opted to NOT get the 1.8T Audi engine is because of the requirement for premium fuel.
Surely folks are not blindly spending 20K$ for a vehicle without knowing what it will cost to properly maintian it?
Unfortunately, the answer to that question is "yes" in far too many cases.
As far as I am aware, only the base 2.0L engine has a tendancy to consume oil... and this has been shown to be related to NOT following the break-in procedure. It has been known for at least 30 years that not properly breaking in an engine (seating the rings) can result in an oil-consuming engine. Some engine-deisgns are more susceptible to poor break-in procedures.
VWs come from the factroy with 'special' break-in oil in the crankcase. It MUST remain in the engine during the entire break-in process. Those folks that ignore the oil-change regimen that the German engineers specify are asking for touble. (ie... changing the oil too OFTEN may not be desirable)
Even the new Hondas have a 10K, 20K 30K recommended oil change. (Not even the 5K that VW has for the break-in oil)
I do lemon law cases for a living, and I see these continually.
"and this has been shown to be related to NOT following the break-in procedure"
Sorry, wrong again - if the consumer didn't folow break-in or maintenance procedures, VW certainly wouldn't be doing buybacks and breach of warranty payouts! They could, legitimately, tell the consumer to pack sand, since warranty-mandated maintenance procedures weren't followed.
No confusion here at all - if I was confused, I'd be out of a job.
The 1.8T had issues with the ignition coils (not at all related).
Your experience is anecdotal. The oil consumption problem is problematic for the 2.slow engine only.
The 1.8 had ignition coil sourcing problems - not oil consumption! Check in with the VW Vortex web site. It is customer based, has no agenda and represents a sampling large enough to influence VW North America.
How many cases do you have in your personal files, that you've been involved in, to draw from?
Plenty of ignition coil problems, no doubt - plenty to go around, all motors involved.
"How many cases do you have in your personal files, that you've been involved in, to draw from?"
You're joking, right? You actually think I need personal exposure to the cases to have credibility?
I understand your personal investment with these issues makes it difficult to accept information to the contrary, but c'mon man, access to information is a GOOD thing.
A cursory look on the net reveals: "In March 2001 VW issued Technical Service Bulletin 1701-01, "Oil Consumption, Evaluating." It describes a process for testing the oil consumption in your 2.0 engine."
There is no such TSB for the 1.8T. I'll end it for me right here - won't take up any more of your time.
I'm being told I'm "confused" and wrong, and I've handled hearly 500 of these cases and I don't think that's the case.
No doubt VW issued TSBs, but that has no bearing at all as to whether I'm seeing complaints and cases for the 1.8T. Access to information IS a good thing, and believe me, I'm inundated with information of this and many other subjects. If I spent less time reading, I'd get more work done!
Do you have similar files in your data base the for the Toyota engine sludge problems or the Honda transmission problems?
Secondly, out of 12 Honda cases (in 5,269 and counting), I've had ONE Honda transmission case. Failure on an Odyssey at 34k.
There is absolutely no possible way that, in the real world, and based on the complaints I see daily, that the Passat, or any other VW product, is anywhere near the reliability, cost of maintenance (after warranty), and long-term usage of any Honda or Toyota. It just doesn't happen.
That being said, I love VW products, having owned 4 air cooled and 6 water cooled VWs, most recently being a 2002 GTI that I had for a demo (for 8k miles). You just can't group them in the same league as most Japanese makes, unfortunately.
I can't discount Consumer Reports reliability ratings because of the high numbers of respondents. I place more faith in their high numbers than your relatively small sampling. You probably see the worst of what's out there, not a cross-section.
I'm still trying to discern the "more fun to drive" notion - these are appliance vehicles, not sports cars. More fun to drive, to ME, means it starts every time I hit the key and I don't spend days in a rental because my ride is in for repairs - VW fails THAT "more fun to drive" test, unless you like driving an Enterprise rental instead of your Passat, Golf, or Jetta.
As for my opinion, do what you like - it's my opinion, not Consumer Reports - unlike Consumer Reports, however, it can't be bought or influenced.
My opinion only - your mileage may vary.
If you don't get it after driving one, then I probably won't be able to explain it to you.
Sporty feel when driving is but one aspect of vehicle ownership - Ferraris drive like a sexual experience, but they continually break - it's part of the "mystique". I don't want any "mystique" in a family car, sports car, or truck that my family and I would use as a daily driver - no thank you.
I don't want my wife or kids stranded, I don't want to know the Enterprise office manager by his/her first name, and after spending 10 years in the car business, knowing the names and ages of my VW service advisor's kids is not something I'm interested in - I'm sure he's a great guy and has great kids - I just don't want that factor as part of my vehicle ownership story.
Nope, no "mystique" for me.
Apparently a lot of people who are more authoritative than I am agree with me since the Passat is consistently rated at the top, including the site that you're on, Edmunds.