VW brand experience - good or bad?

gagrice

Between the awful reliability, pathetic dealer network (arrogant sales and incompetent service), lack of originality,

Who else sells anything in that price range that handles as well? Who else sells a great diesel engine that is willing to sell them in the US? My buying, reliability and service with VW has been as good as any new car I have bought. That includes GM, Toyota & Honda.

merc1

There is room for VW and say Alfa-Romeo in the U.S. market. Yes VW does have some problems, but for them to just give up would be a terrible thing for folks who aren't up to BMW/MB/Audi income yet and want something a little different from what Japan/America/Korea INC sells.

M

Kirstie_H

A reporter is looking for a former Volkswagen fan who has given up on them in favor of other brands in the last couple years. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, December 22, 2005. Be sure to include your daytime contact information and a few words about your experience.

falconone

Absolutely agree with everything you've said. I've owned three VW/Audi products (96 A4, 99 Cabrio, 02 allroad). Audi has decent dealers, but the VW dealer network is absolutely horrible. The A4 was reliable for 47,000 miles, but the Allroad had transmission issue (lag off the line), needed brakes and rotors at 10,000 miles (highway miles!!). It also hydroplaned very badly but I am sure better tires would have solved that. So much for German engineering. Make a nice car and fit it with Walmart brand shoes!!! Will never buy another Audi/VW product.

P.S. I guess VW wants to be Toyota which is why their rear ends look exactly like the Corolla/Avalon

lemko

...I'd say the Jetta looks slightly better than a Corolla. There's a guy at work who actually traded his Honda Accord for a new Jetta. I'd never buy a VW, but I'd hate to see all affordable imports as Asian brands.

merc1

but I'd hate to see all affordable imports as Asian brands.

My feelings exactly!

M

gogogodzilla

I think a big problem with VW pricing is the currency market. Currently the dollar is weak verses the euro, so VW cars will reflect that in the pricing.

When the situation is reversed, I'd expect the pricing to match.

ezshift5

...Who else sells a great diesel engine that is willing to sell them in the US?

....Amen to that, bro.

..here in CA, diesels are CARB-shunned. Looks like my Rab Diesel pickup - showing odo 290k - will soldier on for now.

..best..

.ez.

carlisimo

I thought this was a joke, but April Fools is over. VW is renaming the Golf in the US and Canada back to "Rabbit"!

No more "it's as sporty as actually playing golf" jokes!

It sounds like something a desperate company would do, but I kinda like it. The Rabbit's from so long ago that everyone remembers it fondly, whereas the Golf has an uncute name and lots of visits to the dealership. Even if you know it's named after some wind somewhere, it's not a cool name. (Oh and I think VW has killed the Bora name in Europe and renamed it the Jetta there, but that news is a few months old.)

210delray

Are you serious?

Well, I remember it without fondness; my first car was a yellow '75 Rabbit. Appropriate color -- it was a lemon, a real disappointment. Then I was foolish enough to get another one -- a '79. This one was better, but still had some problems, like a blower motor that went at maybe 25K miles. Then there was the time (under warranty still) when I tried to shift from 1st into 2nd and the shift linkage broke, leaving the car in neutral, and stranding me with my wife and 1-year-old son.

I've never bought another VW since.

corvette

Their director of brand innovation says:
"Volkswagen customers want a relationship with their cars. Names like The Thing, Beetle, Fox and Rabbit support this."

Autoextremist.com says in response:
VW customers want cars that offer a fun-to-drive Germanic driving experience that is unavailable from the Asians without requiring a "Frequent Guest Pass" to the service department - something that VW has been unable to demonstrate as of yet.

jeffyscott

If true, I like it. It is a minor thing, but I never liked the "Golf" name...not being a golfer and all. (yes, I know it is not named after the game).

Not sure if I'll buy one. My wife got new Jetta last year and we really like it. I have thought of going for a Golf someday, as eventually our old minivan will die and I might like the hatchback flexability. I'd be happier buying a "rabbit" rather than a "golf".

ruking1

I think for sure some of the folks experiences and surveys should give pause to anyone considering a VW. I also would agree that VW has more than its share of things going wrong. They also have a higher fault rate. (or whatever it is called) Some have truly had horrendous brand and dealership experiences!!!

However this is NOT a guarantee that ALL VW's will be like that!! They occasionally mess up royal and deliver a flawless car !! As luck would have it, I got a 2003 VW Jetta TDI with 72,000 miles that is acting that way!! : The oem tires seem to be good to go to 100-130k. I have not had it aligned since new car delivery where I specifically asked for them to check and verify the alignment twice (new and a tad later under the "new car adjustment period"). The brake pads don't even appear to be half worn, so 120k in the rear and 100k in the front looks to be a no brainer. It got fully broken in at 60k miles so the mpg is even better after 60k. Fuel mileage range is between 44-62 mpg. It gets 50 mpg in a daily 50 miles R/T commute. I run 25,000 mile oil change intervals.

To be fair, the Toyota and Honda experiences have been flawless, except for a 1985 Toyota Camry that truly was one definition of DOG !!! They Chevy Corvette experience has been relatively trouble free, despite its reputation.

ubbermotor

At least its still keeping a name instead of the meaningless alfabet soup manufacturers think is associated with status. Even after it worked so well for the XR4Ti.

bigpapi

I have a 2003 Jetta 1.8T and have been pretty happy with it so far (knock on wood). It has 45K miles and is quickly creeping up on the 50K. The thing I love the most about it is that it's all paid for .
I firmly believe that when you buy a VW you get what you pay for. The corolla is a great car with excellent gas mileage, but it doesn't even come close to the driving experience, amenities and power of the Jetta.

On the other hand, maintenance is pretty expensive and good dealers aren't as accessible, even in the Boston area. I had to get the front struts replaced at 35K, which was covered under warranty. The service guy put it "You spent a lot of Volkswagen's money today". I'm not really looking forward to life after 50K.

nippononly

So I have to ask, has selling it crossed your mind, now that the warranty is almost up?

I guess if it is that great, it would be worth the extra expense in repairs should that turn out to be the case for your car. I can see that POV.

lemko

Geeze, why not just call the Passat the Dasher.

Rabbit is a very tarnished name for VW. It would be like Chevrolet naming its new small car Vega. My friend and I were riding a short distance in his brother's white Rabbit. Suddenly there was a huge BANG that came from the left rear of the car followed by an incessant string of profanity from the driver. Turns out the shock absorber broke through the top of the tower.

nippononly

Rabbit IS cuter than Golf.....they are trying to go for cute here.....

fintail

A friend of mine has an 04 (.5) Jetta TDI...it has been pretty trouble free the past 25K miles since he bought it. But a couple weeks ago the steering started making noise and turning became very difficult...and now he has to have the steering column/rack replaced (he's not too technical and didn't know the specifics). I guess with 25K trouble free miles, a late model VW has some catching up to do! At least it is under warranty.

bpeebles

I am curious if that Jetta has the "new" electric powersteering - or is it the older hydrolic powersteering?

(I know VW switched to the electric powersteering around that time....)

harrychezt

I only knew 2 VW owners. One had a late 70's beetle, and it seemed ok.
The other guy got a used "Fox"(correct?) in 92(I was in military then). Anyhow, over a year time period, it spent more time in the shop than on the parking lot(his words) .

Hey, about that rabbit name change, maybe VW will make an updated "Thing", to compete against xB, and Element?

fintail

I talked to the guy today...I asked him if it has electric or hydraulic steering...he shrugged his shoulders and said it has "power steering". I'm going to have him bring in the work order when he gets it back.

jeffyscott

I'm pretty sure the electric power steering started with the 2005.5 new Jetta.

rockylee

BERLIN - Car maker Volkswagen AG saw net profit more than quadruple in the first quarter amid sharply higher sales, and the company said Friday that auto markets were strengthening worldwide.

Still, the result fell short of analysts' expectation, and the company's stock fell.

Net profit jumped to 327 million euros ($408 million) from 70 million euros a year ago, with revenue up 21 percent to 25.34 billion euros ($31.67 billion).

The net profit figure was short of the average 439 million euros ($549 million) foreseen by analysts surveyed by Dow Jones Newswires.

Volkswagen stock fell 3.8 percent to 62.26 euros ($77.82) amid declining shares on the Frankfurt exchange.

The company said the year got off to a good start, even in the brutally competitive global auto industry. "The most important automotive markets began 2006 with a positive underlying trend, although the continued risks for automotive demand posed by the economic environment are not insignificant," Volkswagen said in a statement.

"Overall, we are forecasting a modest increase in global passenger car sales," the statement read.

"We are predicting stable automotive demand in the U.S. and Western European markets, while the German passenger car market is expected to grow slightly from a low basis."

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060428/UPDATE/604280430/- 1148/AUTO01

dl7265

From my window sticker :" electro-mechanical power steering"

DL

fintail

OK, the guy I know got his car back. The work order claims the bushings on the steering steering column shaft was replaced, that the bushings in the upper yoke were faulty (this is an 04.5 Jetta TDI with 25K on it). No charge, under warranty, etc. He said he mentioned to the person at the dealer that someone (me) told him Jettas are known for steering issues...the dealer claims they've never heard about it before (this dealer also puts a 4-5K ADM on just about EVERY car, FWIW).

rockylee

What's ADM ?

Rocky

jeffyscott

added (or additional) dealer mark-up

rockylee

lol, okay thanx...

Rocky

gagrice

this dealer also puts a 4-5K ADM on just about EVERY car, FWIW).

When I bought my Passat TDI last April, I checked several Washington dealers around SeaTac and Vancouver. They all were over MSRP. I bought mine at Armstrong VW in Gladstone, Oregon (near Portland) and paid under invoice. I have bought several trucks from dealers in the SeaTac area and always got great buys. Last one was 1993. I guess things change.

fintail

I think a big part of it is that the cars are just popular here. I swear that between my apartment building garage and my workplace garage, there are several dozen 99+ Jettas. I think in this area, they are kind of a stepping stone to a 3er or other upmarket trendy car, for late 20-somethings/early 30-somethings with their first decent job. If there's enough demand, dealers can play their games.

The guy I know with the TDI really loves that car though. I guess if you're happy, that matters most.

210delray

...the dealer claims they've never heard about it before...

Famous dealer service lies, along with:

They all do that.

It's normal.

What noise?

akenaten

When are people going to to wake up? Maybe they should be called Yugowagon. How about farfegcrappy? As long as people keep buying their crap VW is going to keep selling it.

gagrice

There is a difference in driving experience. Toyota has learned how to build reliable cars. Too bad they are so boring to drive. That is why VW continues to sell lots of cars. The New Jetta is a real winner for them. I don't care for the looks. I liked the older style. I am selling my Passat, though I will hate to see it go. A great driving car and after a year no troubles at all. Now that diesel is 20 cents less than gas it is even a better choice.

rockylee

Well the owners are telling is just the FAST that makes that noise :confuse:

Rocky

ruking1

I would also agree, since I own 4 makes side by side. Corvette Z06, Toyota Landcruisers, VW TDI, Honda Civic.

To compare the Civic and the Jetta TDI, it is a funny thing, but the suspension components actually cost MORE for the Civic, yet when you dig deeper the VW TDI has some of the more sophisticated struts and shocks (as it affects the ride and handling and durability) than the Honda Civic..

While I do like my Honda Civic and think it well built and excellent, given a choice, I will chose the TDI MOST times for the conditions I like to drive in.

wonderwall

While my 1997 Jetta handled and drove fairly well, I've had the opportunity to drive both Mk 4 & Mk 5 Golfs & Jettas --albeit GLs and GLSs-- and the handling and driving dynamics, I feel, ain't nothin' to write home about. My 2003 Mazda PR5-- god rest its soul-- was way more fun to drive than any VW of recent vintage and was infinitely more reliable.

ruking1

Begs the question, why did you keep the Jetta and get rid of the 2003 PR5 ?

For me the TDI (Jetta) combines getting a range of 44-62 mpg. Also the ability to cruise at close to XXX digit speeds and still get 48 mpg. It gets 50 mpg in a plain jane 50 mile R/T daily commute. This combination is nearly unduplicated by almost any car on the USA market today. Prius is probably the closest, but in comparison the high speed handling is nothing to write home about.

rockylee

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=114965

Rocky

wonderwall

I didn't keep the Jetta. I unloaded that sucker as quickly as I could and got the PR5. The PR5 had an ugly encounter with a late 1990s Buick LeSabre driven by an ignoramus going 55 MPH through a red light. Walked away from it relatively unharmed. I now have a 2005 Hyundai Elantra GLS hatchback that handles on par with the 1997 Jetta.

gagrice

I now have a 2005 Hyundai Elantra GLS hatchback that handles on par with the 1997 Jetta.

Does not say much for the Elantra that it is about as good as a 9 year old VW. I can tell you my sister's 2005 Tiburon is not even close to my Passat in handling, braking, performance, interior or anything else. It does have a cooler name than Passat. I hated driving it around Phoenix.

wonderwall

The Elantra is a decent handler. I wouldn't get excited about its capabilities, but I wasn't excited about the JEtta's either. The Mazda was astoundingly good in that department. Of course, the Mrs. thought it rode like a go-kart.

bpeebles

I find it interesting that you commented on the RIDE of the Mazda... my wife thought the same thing. When we test-drove the Mazda, it felt as if we could feel every nook-n-cranny on the road surface.

Neeless to say, she LOVES her 2003 Jetta TDI..... it is wonderful to get over 650 miles per tank of fuel 8-)

In a recient magazine test I read yesterday... they were testing for high-MPG automobiles. They concluded that the Jetta TDI not only got the best MPG than anything else available in North America... it would have been their first choice for a ROAD TRIP - irreguardless of its great MPG.

wonderwall

the ride didn't bother me much. i kind of liked it. i guess it was some manifestation of adventurousness on my part.

dieselone

Jetta TDI's are great for a road trip. Quiet @ 80 with lots of torque. Your bladder will never outlast a tank of fuel.

BTW, I test drove an 06 Jetta GLI w/ 2.0 FSI Turbo w/ 6 speed. Wow, what a fun car. Will still consider a TDI, but we don't drive much, so I'm still up in the air for our next car.

jeffyscott

The new Jetta (in any form) is a wonderfully quiet and smooth car at any speed.

My bladder can not outlast any cars range...I gotta stop maybe every 3 hours

harris8

We all need to wake up. My daughters 2003 VW Jetta has an uncorrectable stall out problem. Without warning, no indicator light failure indications, the car will just shut off. You can always restart it immediately, however at 65 mph on the highway it is quite disconcerting. Up until the year the local VW dealer would offer a loaner car but now neither the dealer nor VOA will do that and tell me rent a car while it is the shop. Problem is that she is 19 and they will not rent her a car. VW response continues, give us enough time we will get it fixed. When is enough time. So far they have replaced: power relay, wires in the ignition switch, catalytic converter, fuel evaporator hoses, and many other relays, etc..

gagrice

Modern cars are more complex and are more difficult to find problems. One person posted their new Prius was at Toyota for 3 months and they have not found the problem. Lack of skilled technicians and overly complex cars will make it worse in the future. You can blame at least half of the complexity on our EPA. Many of the exotic sensors and associated computer modules are there for only one reason. To monitor emissions. Any one of those sensors can disable a car. We have Ford trucks at work that spend more time in the shop than on the road. ALL caused by sensor problems.

carlisimo

Usually check engine lights come on because emissions have gone 50% above normal. That's a lot better than shutting off. It's poor design if any sort of error totally disables a car, but you're right, it does happen.

harrychezt

Mazda: We tested the Mazda3(back in Sept 04), and then the Scion tC. Because of the more harsh ride of the Mazda3(and higher cost), we got the tC.
The tC can be harsh, but it was not as bad as the Mazda3, to us, anyways.

Not knocking the Mazda3(as a bad car,etc). We just like a slightly more "refined" ride,etc..
If tMazda could get the "3" to be more "refined"(NVH, over certain roads,etc), like my in-laws '97 Protege DX, then we may have purchased one.