Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Mazda RX-8 Prices Paid and Buying Experience

13468930

Comments

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,192
    habitat's assessment is "dead on". I would run whatever the manufacturer suggests (in this case, premium for the RX8).

    While the manual says you can use regular in the 8, Mazda say for best performance and economy, premium should be used.

    To save a few bucks, why not use what will give you the most performance and economy?

    This has been debated in another RX8 forum. There's nothing conclusive about the long term affects of using regular, but I wouldn't want to ruin a $30K car because I "chintzed" on the fuel.
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,260
    I've used premium in all of my cars for the past 10 years. Even our 4-banger Forester. As stated above, for the money saved, its not even worth it to me to lose 1 hp or risk dirtier injectors. Its such a small per-tankfull difference that I don't see the point in using anything else.

    By the way, 89 octane is the worst deal of them all. Think about it, 10 cents more per gallon for 2 more octane (89 vs. 87) and another 10 cents more for an additional 4 (93 octane - if you don't live in Cali, I guess).

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • carlikercarliker Posts: 285
    Though I wouldn't make a habit out of it, using 89 or 87 (plus/regular) every once in awhile is not going to harm your vehicle. Realistically, there are times that gas is sky high and the savings does make a difference. However, most people either get regular or premium gas which means the 89 Octane plus gasoline has been sitting there for awhile.
  • kkollwitzkkollwitz Posts: 274
    I suggest trying a half-tank of regular. My guess is you will not like the way the engine feels running on anything less than premium, and will find premium's extra cost is worth it every time you pull away from a red light.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Unless the engine is tuned to actually gain some benefit from the higher octane fuel, you won't see any additional performance. Also, as far as I know, the typical detergents added to fuel to help clean the injectors are in ALL grades of fuel and not just the premium. You don't need to run premium just to keep the injectors clean.

    However, for high performance (typically either high compression or turbo/supercharged) engines, the higher octane fuel is necessary to prevent detonation ('pinging') when the engine is under a load (hard acceleration). Many engines which 'recommend' high octane for the best performance/economy WILL run just fine on a lower octane but the engine management computers will adjust the engine timing (resulting in a loss of power AND economy) when the lower octane fuels are used.

    This has been discussed many times over other threads but the jist of it is this: higher octane fuels don't have more 'bang' than lower octane. They simply withstand higher compression without preigniting than lower octane fuels thus are better suited to high compression engines. If you don't have a high compression motor, high octane fuel will do NOTHING for you.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,260
    to prevent knocking when using lower-grade fuel, the engine management system retards the timing. This, by definition, means the spark will occur at a less-than-optimum time. Less-than-optimum means lower power.

    Now, I always took that to also mean lower efficiency, thereby more carbon deposits left behind, which, of course, is the cause of dirtier injectors (regardless of detergents). This may be unfounded, but I think it just makes sense. I could be totally wrong, but have yet to find definitive proof either way.

    Regardless of cleanliness, I would like my engine to always run at its optimum settings and not need to generate the spark at a less-appropriate time. And, actually, many modern engines have higher compression ratios than the old 8:1 that 87 octane was designed for. If you do have 8:1 or lower, than you are correct, the higher octane should do nothing for you.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Makes perfect sense to me.

    I had quite forgotten the dirtiness aspect of retarding the timing when running a lower than 'recommended' octane fuel. When I had read your earlier post regarding your desire to run a higher octane fuel in your Forester in order to not sacrifice a single HP or dirty your injectors, I had assumed you were referring to the detergents in the fuel.

    I was not aware that Suburu recommends premium for the Forester.
  • carlikercarliker Posts: 285
    What are the odds that the high octane fuel is just a deal made up between the fuel and automotive companies? I'm always wondering about such things.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,260
    subaru doesn't, but partly its just out of habit that i do it for my vehicles now and the other part is that, in that particular vehicle, my wife was running regular, but she started complaining of a smell. She tried premium and the smell went away. I never pursued it any further because if the wife is not complaining, I'm happy. ;)

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • Has anyone leased a Mazda RX8 recently.

    I am about to lease one and would like to know what money rates / residuals you got. Did you go with another bank?

    Thanks!
  • As anyone who has ever read one of my postings will attest I am totally paranoid, being thus qualified I will take a stab at

    "The Octane Conspiracy!"
    Now as everyone knows gasoline comes from crude oil. That oil has to be refined to produce the gasoline. The highest octanes are separated and hoarded for the use of multi-national corporations, airline companies, and of course the Military Industrial Complex. The dreggs are left for guys like you and me. To keep you distracted the inner circle makes sure that there are three almost indistinguishable grades made from their slops. The common man is then kept guessing and debating what the additives and octane differences really do, while the rich manipulators laugh their way to the bank!
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    I sincerely doubt that the premium in your Forester makes any more power or has any less deposits than regular does. Manufacturers are spending billions these days trying to make their engines as clean as possible. To that end, the designs are optimized for particular grades of fuel (the 'recommended' grade by the manufacturer). You stated yourself that reduced power and increased deposits would occur if the timing was retarded. But if the engine is DESIGNED to run on regular, no such adjustment to the timing would be made, therefor no loss of power or increased deposits.

    All that being said, if the wife isn't complaining, I say the extra 0.10/gal is a small price to pay. If only all spousal complaints could be so easily addressed.......8^)
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,260
    even perceived value is better than no value.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • If you are searching for an RX-8 in the DC area, definitely avoid Brown's Mazda of Alexandria. Here's my sad tale:
    Went in Monday night and spent nearly two hours negotiating a price for an RX-8. It was a very good price (from my perspective). The car arrived two days later, so I headed over to pick it up. After I finished my PDI, the manager came over and said that the price we had previously agreed upon was too low and that I would have to pay them $500 more to take delivery. Naturally, I told them what they could to with that -- so it looks like I'll be going with an RSX. But if you negotiate with Brown's, realize that they are totally dishonest and feel no obligation whatsoever to honor their quoted price (which I have in writing -- hello lawsuit!!). Until you actually get the keys, their offers are worthless.
  • kkollwitzkkollwitz Posts: 274
    Thanks for walking on the bad deal.
    BTW, here in Greenville SC, the RX8s are piling up on the dealer lot like Camaros in their last year of production.....
  • carlikercarliker Posts: 285
    You either have a great experience with a Mazda dealership or a really bad one. Your story doesn't surprise me at all. I preordered mine back in March and agreed to pay a price. When I went to pick it up, they tried to stick me with a rust protection package that would cost $600.00. At first, they said I couldn't buy the car if I wasn't willing to pay for that. I said I was going to walk and they eventually did what was right. I'm glad you walked. Salespeople can go back on a quote I believe as long as it's not advertised to the public -- so I don't know about the lawsuit (unless you were just kidding). It's just not professional and bad business!
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,192
    Leases vary dramatically by financial institutions, credit ratings, out of pocket payments and even part of the country you live in with regards to residuals and money factors.

    Although, past RX7s hold their value extremely well, I don't know that there are enough out there on the used market that anyone can make a prediction for the RX8.

    rroyce, the resident guru over at the "Real World Trade-in Values" thread has said he's seen a few used ones at the used car auctions. He says they are all selling at or near MSRP.

    Dealers don't keep stock very long as they are sold within 24-48 hours of them hitting their lots. Some dealers are still filling pre-orders. Trying to find unsold stock using Mazda's WEB site is hopeless since they don't update it regularly. As an example, my particular car is listed as available at my dealer even though I took delivery of it 2 months ago.

    I've heard of "Great deals" from some postings here, but whenever you try to do a little research, those "great deals" seem to somehow evaporate.

    Even seeing some "in-stock" units at dealers tends to be a crap shoot once you find out that most have been sold and are just awaiting prep and delivery.
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • I picked up my RX8 (Manual, Grand Touring, Spoiler, Appearance, 6CD, Tint (dealer added) Nav) today using the Mazda S-Plan. All the dealers in St. Louis are taking it..and I guess thats because there are maybe 50+ total sitting on all the lots.

    Just so others can have an idea of what I got.

    My lease went through Chase Bank, not Mazda. 36 and 39 months had the same residual (54%). I took the 39 months (trade off was I dropped to 14k miles a year, which is still 45k total miles). Money Rate was .00219, about the same as a BMW 3 series...of course the residual is lower.

    On a side note he mentioned that the Mazda lease rate was about .00285.

    My only concern was that www.leasecompare.com was showing me .00202 money rates...but my money rate is close to the BMW and the difference is $228 over the life of the lease- so not a big deal.

    Anyway, an overall great experience at Bommarito St. Peters. Ask for Gary Panus.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    sorry to jump in late on this...but I got a service bulletin from Mazda this week expressing the concerns they have with using less than premium fuel....expect performance to decrease and engine noise to increase substantially. Emissions output will also increase.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,192
    Not surprising....why people would buy a $30K car and then try to short change themselves by using less than required fuel grades in it baffles me.

    BTW....I just got 27 MPG (actually it was 26.7 MPG) on my last all highway tankful with the cruise set at 75 MPH most of the way. I never run anything less than "premium".
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
  • carlikercarliker Posts: 285
    Premium should be used, but once in a long while, I'll put in a lower grade if gas prices go nuts like it did a year ago. I won't do this consistently, however. If I feel up 20 times during the summer, I'd do it maybe once or twice at the most. Sometimes I just hate how the gas stations just gouge people. It becomes a principle sort of thing. Bottom line, this is your second most expensive (and some cases the most), so you need to treat it as such.
  • Thanks much for the support -- I spoke to Mazda today and while they were pretty taken back by the situation, they indicated that there was little they could do.

    Just to clear up any misconceptions about your rights in such a situation, here's my legal op (I'm a lawyer -- which doesn't make the info. below necessarily right, but it is correct to my knowledge).

    If you receive an offer from a dealer, get it in writing and also get an expiration date written on the offer (good until MM/DD/YY). Save a copy of the offer. The good until expiration date will offer some protection against the old "bait and switch" routine.

    If you elect to accept the offer, try to get a manager's signature or at least confirm the deal with the manager. A written agreement is best, but an oral agreement is also valid. A handshake with the manager confirming the deal is also very helpful.

    At this point, you have reached a valid, binding contract with the dealer. That contract may only be modified by mutual agreement. In other words, if the dealer refuses delivery (my situation) or insists upon an "optional" service (carliker's situation), you have legal recourse. Despite what the manager may tell you, car dealerships do not get to breach contracts in our society -- really. Hope this is of some assistance.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Posts: 22,260
    so will you take any action?
    is the result worth the trouble? does taking legal action only force them to abide by the contract or do you get more out of it? of course, if it only allows you to get the car at that price, then its really not worth it because the dealership still gets the sale and you still "get" to buy the car.

    '17 F150 Crew 2.7; '67 Coronet R/T; '14 Town&Country Limited; '09 LR2 HSE. 44-car history and counting!

  • carlikercarliker Posts: 285
    I would at least talk to the general manager at the dealership. Since you have something signed or quoted to you, the general manager has nothing to stand on at all. If the GM has any kind of customer relationship skills, you could probably pull off even a better deal. They are lucky you don't take legal steps!
  • Definitely, good points/questions. I would prefer not to take legal action as it can be fairly time consuming and I'll almost certainly end up getting an RSX (unless they have a sudden change of heart) when I would've preferred the RX-8 at the agreed upon price.

    That said, I am entitled to be "made whole" for the dealer's breach. I'll argue that this entitles me to the "benefit of the bargain" which is the difference between the MSRP and the agreed upon price (IMO) and additonally, I'll seek treble damages under the state's consumer fraud statute. And punitives, if possible.

    I'm hoping that the GM gets involved and stops this nonsense -- the woman I spoke with at Mazda's consumer line indicated that she would attempt to speak with the GM, but I'm not holding out much hope.

    Thanks again for the feedback!! It's a great release of my frustration to be able to hash through all this.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Your experience with Browns Mazda is similar to mine with Browns Honda in Arlington. In late 2001 I went there on the verbal promise that they would sell me a S2000 for $32,000 with NO additional processing fees, dealer ad-ons etc. Of course, when I got there, they tried to renegotiate to full MSRP, claiming they thought I meant a leftover 2001 instead of a brand new 2002. I had anticipated the bait and switch and had made an appointment with Sheehy Honda for later that day. I had an hour to kill, so I let Browns draw up all the papers, go through the pre-delivery explanation of the car etc. Then I ripped up their contract, walked out and got the car from Sheehy for exactly $32k with free wheel locks and a couple of other do-dads.

    I did drive an RX8 at Browns when I was in for my 15k mile service last week. Great car, but I'd never buy anything from Browns.

    P.S. On the legal front, it had always been my understanding that to make a contract a legally binding "two-party" contract, there had to be some "consideration" from the other (in your case, buying) side. Like a deposit. Which is why you see a lot of real estate contracts written with a $1 dollar payment and the statement "in exchange for good and valuable consideration". I think Browns has a poor business reputation and lack of good faith/ethics that will come back to haunt them. But it sounds like from a legal perspective, that your "contract" with them wasn't a legally binding two way contract, but rather a written offer. Those are not usually held up as legally binding in court (i.e. similar to a non-binding letter of intent).

    I wouldn't waste my time fighting them. You have already put this board on notice that they are not worthy of our business and I fully agree with you.
  • Sorry Habitat, I have to disagree.

    The reason Brown's engages in this type of behavior is because they are counting on the customers that they screwed not "wast[ing] time fighting them." I made it very clear to them that I was going to post this situation in every Mazda discussion board I could find and that didn't faze them in the least. Not at all.

    Unfortunately, if we want honest dealers, we have to be willing to take on the dishonest ones. Posting is obviously not a sufficient deterrent.

    Oh -- I don't want to clog the board up with a detailed discussion of contract law -- but if you've reached an agreement with a dealer (and have some evidence to back it up), you should be in good shape.
  • I have been a daily reader of this forum for 2 months, and I now have some information I can share. Just took delivery of my new RX-8 this week. MSRP of 34425 (gt,nav,spoiler,app pkg,spare tire kit) for a selling price of 31500. This car was the GSM's personal demo,and had 3002 miles. I had contacted several dealers inside and outside my state (Indiana) to gather pricing info. Was told "sticker" most of the time. Russ Darrow Mazda in Milwaukee was the best price at 1000 over invoice on any RX-8. My local dealer finally decided to price match, offering a 31100 MSRP RX-8 for 29100, and the more equipped one (the demo)for only 195 over invoice. Lease rate was .00202. I did not have a trade in.
         These cars can be had for under sticker. Supply and demand. Some dealers have between 25 and 40 RX-8's on their lots. Shop around, and you can save money.
         Also, my titanium gray rx is really sweet.
  • Ive been tracking for the last month.
    You can download the entire database of Vins for all your local dealers from mazdausa
    I made the effort cross check each week to monitor sales, Fact is I see an average of 20 on the lot and 2 sold per week. Bank starts charging a hefty lease fee after 30 days. and dealers get choice of new inventory based upon making sales numbers. Does the word Hindenburgh paint a picture of the pricing future.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 10,192
    Problem with checking stock from mazdausa is the inaccuracies.

    My vin is listed as "available" from my local dealer even though it was sold to me over two months ago.

    I think the Mazda web site lists all cars the dealer ordered, whether they are sold or still available. That's why it looks like the dealers have lots in inventory, when in fact, they may not have but a few for sale.
    2018 Acura TLX SH AWD ASpec
13468930
Sign In or Register to comment.