You wrote: "If VW gives you permission to use the Valvoline motor oil in question, is it not possible that it will work just fine?"
Yes...no...maybe.
Personally, I won't chance it. I'd prefer not to have the engine taken apart if it sludged using an oil that's on the list but I knew darn well didn't carry the right spec approval. Why go through the hassle? Especially when another oil that's on the list and carries the VW Spec 502.00 approval on the label is available. YMMV - it's a free country; feel free to use any oil as you see fit.
And use Mobil 1 0-40, or Castrol Syntec 5-40. Mobil 1 is generally deemed to be superior, but VW worked with Castrol to come up with the 5-40 spec, so Castrol should know what they are doing.
I decided to order my own VW spec oil for my wife's 2003 Passat 1.8T (It has around 23,000 miles, so I decided to take matters into my own hands before the sludge does). I found a site that sells the Castrol Syntec 5w-40 that complies with the VW 502.00 standard:
The next oil change, I will have the engine flushed, and from this point on, use the Syntec
5w40 every 5000 miles (and not 1 mile over). My dealer will do the oil change, and I will supply the oil (so they can't pull the "you need all of your receipts" trick - they have been servicing the car since it was brand new - they have a record of every oil change - and so do I)...
You wrote: "My dealer will do the oil change, and I will supply the oil (so they can't pull the "you need all of your receipts" trick - they have been servicing the car since it was brand new - they have a record of every oil change - and so do I)..."
Make sure the dealer notes on your service receipt that the oil was 502 compliant. And save all of the receipts from performanceusa.com.
Dealers, tire/service centers, quick lube shops- so many are sub-par it's just amazing. Last trip with my Expy for tires/alignment at a major tire center, they changed the oil by mistake, used the wrong weight oil and only 5 quarts instead of the required 6, left greasy prints on the hood. When it was in to a Ford dealer for front brakes & rotation, tech didn't rotate tires. He denied- how did I know? I had marked them with tire crayon on the inside sidewall! They obliged and rotated. I worked as a mechanic for a number of years and am just appalled at the carelessness of so many shops. And the quick-lubers: I'll crawl under my car in a snowstorm rather than go there; many stories from others of stripped drain plugs, etc. Very hard to find quality- if you do, hang onto 'em for dear life!
You nailed it; I use one dealer and one indie shop for my domestic and I have another dealer and indie shop for my imports. I think that it's important to build a relationship and demonstrate loyalty to good shops, as they will usually go the extra mile for you when you are in a pinch.
Well we are buying our first brand new car ever and the passat 1.8t is one of our 3 choices. Own 2 VW right now NEVER had any problems. However I have been reading a lot about the sludge issue in earlier years. Come to this conclusion: VW should have never used regular oil in the Turbo. I have not seen a person yet that puts a Turbo in aftermarket and runs regular oil! Anyway we are stationed overseas and I have been calling the dealers here and the 1st thing they tell me is that with the services you have to use syn oil! So the dealers in Michigan where I called to inquire. I guess we are going thru this spiel one dealer says one thing another says something else. All 3 dealer statesside reminded me:) that it is syn oil. As much as I know VWOA has directed their dealers to use only that oil. Now I guess that is where the dealers set themselves apart. You would think though that dealers who refuse to change to that oil would be liable if something goeas wrong with the Turbo. Also if this helps on the VW site you can print out what syn oils meet the VW standard of 502.00. That way you cannot go wrong. Make the dealer note that you used the appropriate oil so you are good to go. If you do not like the dealer go home and call around until you find one you like. Once you do that you also see how big of a difference dealers charge when it comes to the large services. One dealer quoted me 526$ where the other quoted me 600$. When it came to the oil the difference in the 2 was 1$. Shop around before you settle. Ifeel bad for all the people who have had problems with earlier model years hopefully now with the switch it will make a big improvment. Oh and just so you know....do not feel bad spending 55$ for an oil/filter change over here in Germany itself it costs me 70euros which comes down to 92$ if the dollar stands decent, which just never seems to be the case:)
About VW dealers and VW AG: they DO know about owners problems, they just do not care about it: I did ask dealer several times fill correct oil, the answer was:"We use 10W-30" (selfcensored :-)).
I tried ask VoA, they've responded:"Ask your dealer." About what???
2 hours for oil change(selfcensored again :-)), missing parts after that...
I do not go to dealer after that. And who cares? Dealership, VoA? None of the above.
P.S. good luck with you new/future car(BTW,is it still VW?).
May I expound on this with my experience at the VW dealer this morning....
I went to my local VW dealer for a routine oil change and a tire rotation. I brought my own oil and left it in the backseat. I advised my service advisor of this. An hour and half later I was told my car was ready. I get in my car and look in the backseat and guess what I see? My unopened oil. I get out of my car and find my service advisor and ask what oil they used and he states "the oil that was in your backseat". I said the oil hasn't moved. He grabbed my paperwork and hurried towards the shop. They pull my car back around and (I hope) changed my oil again with the correct Mobil 1.
At this point I am wondering if they actually used my mobil 1 and changed my filter or just sat back in the shop for 15 minutes and pulled my car back around with the same oil in it. Also, on the window sticker it says they used regular oil and not synthetic. I asked about this and he stated they do use Castrol Syntec.
My advisor went into this long dialogue about how customer's come into the dealer with sludged engines and complain. When in actuality its the customer's fault because they can't prove they actually changed the oil.
I at least got a coffee mug for my inconvienence.......;-)
I sent the following e-mail to Valvoline via their website:
"Recently, Volkswagen of America issued a letter restating the appropriate oils to be used in the 1.8T engine in the Passat model. Emphasis was placed on the requirement that the oil meet VW Spec 502.00.
In that letter, a list of approved oils was included. Two Valvoline Synpower products made the list - Synpower 5w-30 and Synpower 5w-40.
Can you confirm that both of these oils meet VW Spec 502.00? Thank you."
In response, I received a .pdf file copy of Synpower product info sheet. The only two oils meeting noted as meeting VW Spec 502.00 are 5w-40 Synpower and 20w-50 Synpower.
Just for fun, I'm going to forward this on to VWoA and see what kind of response I get from Auburn Hills.
Well, maybe since so many of you are having problems with dealers why not post where you live and which dealers you had problem with so maybe other people in your area are spared the hassle? TF1 I am fully aware that there are dealers that downright suck, and I know that they know about this whole fiasko, just do not want to do anything about it. I have also seen on other websites that a lot of people are filing lawsuits againts some dealers, hope they win if it is a legitimate claim!! Anyway it is still a VW and after the 60000m pass my husband plans to do the maintenance himself, he is a mechanic and obsessed with cars. Constantly tinkers on ours and if he has nothing to tinker with he finds something. Most of the time that means he will go in the garage and take sandpaper or the dremel and start to polish the VR6 till it shines:) Bought the car used after an accident he is fixing it. He calls it his stress relief projects. Unfortunately his best friend who is just as obsessed and him do not allow me to intrude anymore because I ask to many questions:) Hey how else am I supposed to learn? Funny my father had the same rules like my husband does...go figure.
I don't mind sharing what dealer I dealt with, but I have had good experiences with them in the past. So, I am hoping that this was an isolated incident.
We don't encourage posting dealers' names and very detailed postings about problems/complaints because we don't want the forums to become a Complaint Board.
We'd rather that you outline your problem in general terms and share info with other owners who have dealt with and possibly solved these issues.
Also, Complaint Boards tend to carry very nasty accusations along with them (people are, naturally, upset with the dealer about something) and this puts a lot of negativity into the forums. furthermore, we have no way to verify these accusations, which could be harmful and unfounded.
So I'd like to suggest that you use the NHTSA boards or other Consumer Advocate boards for long, detailed complaints against specific dealers.
Can I as a consumer take my Passet to say a firestone type service center to have oil(with VW oil filter)/tire rotation etc. done and still comply with warranty guidelines set forth by VW? Or do I HAVE to use VW for all service whether it's minor/major?
By federal law, car manufacturers are not permitted to require service at their dealers to preserve warranties (Magnuson Moss Act).
In practice, it's easiest to go to a dealer, because if the dealer messes up, they have to answer to both you and to the manufacturer; whereas getting ANY independent shop to step up and fix stuff if difficult, they'll point fingers all over the place except towards themselves.
In practice, even at a dealer you need to keep your guard up and make sure work is done, and done properly:
Scratch or otherwise mark the oil filter so you are sure they didn't forget to replace it;
Check the oil level after an oil change (overfills are very common, underfills or no fills happen but less often);
And decide whether you want "bottles back" to act as a check that the cheap stuff from the overhead tubes didn't go into your car instead of the full synthetic. I thought asking for bottles back would offend the dealer, but they view you as part of the quality control process on their mechanics, so it's good for them too.
I try to go to just one dealer, in case they strip the oil plug (happened to me once and to two friends I know); if you switch between different places they'll deny it was THEIR fault.
And people wonder why manufacturers are starting to remove auto transmission dipsticks and fill tubes - it's probably because 75% of car repairs are caused by lack of maintenance, and 25% are caused by incompetent maintenance.
If you go somewhere else besides the dealer, make sure that the receipt details exactly what oil was used (especially if you have the 1.8T engine) and that the receipt has your vehicle description (including the VIN). And double check that it has the correct date and vehicle mileage noted.
I base this on a few threads I've read on other forums in which receipts were rejected as evidence for the sludge issue because these things were missing.
I had my 10k done this morning (with my Mobil 1 0w-40) so the car comes out and I look and they didn't rotate my tire like they were supposed so I tell the advisor and of course the tech say he did but then changes his mind so I ask the advisor "how do I know he changed the oil filter"? and he tells me that he understands my concern. What the heck does that mean?! The car has been nothing but a joy so far but every service has been an annoyance and gives me no confidence that VW service shops are doing the right thing. BTW, at the 5k service, they overfilled the oil by quite a bit (at another dealer). I won't be going back to this place either. At this pace, I'll run out of places to try by 30k miles.
I am car shopping. I hate car shopping so I drive my cars til their dead. I've put 150K on my Grand Cherokee Laredo which I bought new in '98. Here's my problem. I only want to spend about 26K and I want lots of style and great gas mileage. I have fallen in love with the 2005 Diesel Passat, but I've now spoken with 6 VW owners and five of them say their VW has spent plenty of time in the hospital - electrical problems seem to be a common theme. Then I logged onto myVWlemon.com and well I thought it was pretty much over... But the Passat has gotten under my skin and I can't let it go! Help! Could I buy one and it look like a Passat but run like a Honda (no problems)??? Or do I really need to lay my Passat dream to rest? Please help. Besotten by Passatan
I have said this before: I can only provide my VW experiences. I had a 2002 Jetta for 35600 miles and now own a 2004.5 Passat which has 9800 miles on it. Neither car has had any mechanical problems to date. I would by another VW at this point. Granted, 40K miles down the road I may be singing a different tune. But, then again, that is why I lease my cars.
We talked about this on e-mail, but I'd suggest you use the "browse by vehicle" feature to the left of this page and post your question in the Passat forums!
Im not saying i do this, but im just curious if anyone know what would happen if you change the engine oil and filter on a high mileage car like lets say every 500 miles? Would anything bad happens or any potential damage? Any comments or response on this?
The only potential damage that would occur is to your wallet - You'll easily spend at least 6x to 10x more by changing your oil every 500 miles - the oil will still be like new (fresh) at that mileage interval.
If you believe there is sludging or deposits from not changing the oil enough with the previous owner, changing at 1000 miles with long drives in the schedule would slowly remove some of the deposits.
That's especially good if you do your own oil and filter changes.
Yeah, if you had a filthy gummed up engine it might help, but otherwise the only time I'd change at 500 miles is after you've done a rebuild. When I used to rebuild engines, i'd change the oil at 50 miles, 500 and then again at 3,000 before going on the full schedule.
which will be out of the shop next week, we did a full-blown rebuild, bored and stroked, new Callies crank, JE rods, Arias pistons, worked head, etc - this will be a race motor that is somewhat tame for street use and commuting.
What do you recommend for breaking in, both for driving and for oil changes?
I used to fill them up with NON detergent oil, crank 'em without a spark until I got oil pressure, then fire them up, rest them at fast idle for 1/2 hour, then dump the non-detergent oil and put in a dino oil (NOT synthetic!) and test the engine out for 50 miles or so---no redlining, just loading it up at different speeds but neither high or low extremes of RPM, then dump that oil and then re-fill and start a normal 3,000 mile break in.
With a "race" engine, the fewer times you start 'em cold the better.
we get it back - I trust the guy, just wondering if I should go ahead and swap oil at 50 and 500...
We'll switch to synthetic after 3,000...
Also, considering twin remote filters, both for increased oil capacity and cool factor - any problem filling these filters and lines up with the stock oil pump?
What does the guy doing the rebuild recommend for breakin technique. This engine may require breakin more than a factory built engine; ask what he recommends for change interval and refill oil.
What about the idea of a pre-oiler, or what ever they are called. Ya know, turn the key and it dumps oil into the system before igition. I see them in the performance catalogs.
The guy doing the rebuild is ME, I'm just not doing the install. My tuner shop guy recommends only a change at 3,000 and waiting until then to use synthetic, but I'm going to do another change at 500, maybe sooner.
Heck, with 5 quarts of Castrol 5W30 costing only $6.00 at Wal-Mart, what's the harm?
I haven't looked into those. I know about them, and have seen them in OEM applications on exotics. It's kinda late to change plans, the engine is in the car, my guy is just installing accessories and hooking up the new fuel pump, fuel rail, injectors, ignition box, coil, etc.
Well, you could just do the non-detergent flush after 1/2 hour and then go to dino oil and dump it at 3,000----that'd be okay. I use to be very cautious because I built my engine "tight", since I wasn't going to race them. A race engine should be built fairly "loose". You want it to have plenty of clearance, and even if it burns a little oil, that's good.
we'll have a nomimal (total factors combined) compression ratio of 11.1:1, using Arias race rings.
I'm looking forward to working on it, but moreso to kicking the tail out on the drift track.
What do you think about the dual remote filter situation with the stock oil pump? I could have gotten a Nismo oil pump, but it was over $700, and that's insane, so we went with a $65 new OEM pump.
My Dad (tractor mechanic on the farm) would use non-detergent oils in some engines after rebuilding. I wonder if the detergent oils have (had) more lubricity and wouldn't let the rings rub enough to wear themselves and the walls smooth to give a good 'seating'?
What does your ring manufacturer recommend about breaking in the rings? I'd check their website or the package to see if that's mentioned.
One, the non-detergent oil will pick up anything in suspension, and you're going to dump that out in 1/2 hour anyway, so why waste oil at $3 a quart?
Second, I'd like things to "bed in" a bit, and super slippery oil may not allow even the slightest amount of friction or heat. I'd also like to know if the engine is okay at idle...very good oil might just cover up a clearance problem, etc.
I'd rather hear something going on at 1,200 rpm than 5,000 rpm.
11:1 compression is a bit dicey...you have to have really good fuel. I hope you did your "engine math"...if your compression is just a bit too high, well....but I'm sure you were careful.
This compression issue is often found in engines which take "big bore kits" like VW and Porsche. You have to measure your cylinder and head capacities to the CC or you are a dead duck.
I think unless you are drag racing with super high HP, a stock OEM is fine. I'd be more concerned with baffling the oil pan than will overall flow rates. When you fling a car around, well, the factory engineers didn't always design for those extremes of "attitude".
with road race baffles. We have great fuel here, not like the pond scum junk our California brethren have to deal with. We have a stand-alone AEM engine management system and an active fuel/air meter.
Premium for the street, and 106/108 Sunoco at the track.
Thanks on the oil pump question - my kid is obsessed with hanging big twin K&N oil filters on the lower fenderwell, both for bling factor and ease of oil changes.
Don't put K&Ns on a race motor....really bad idea IMO. You have to keep them meticulously clean and you have to be careful about bending or warping the filter---K&Ns can distort easily (especially the long flat ones) and if they do, they'll leak and suck in pure unfiltered air. Even on a big bore V8 your horsepower gain is a) miniscule and b) only at very high rpm...if any gain at all.
I'd sooner you ran without a filter at all---you get about the same amount of protection and even more miniscule HP gains.
Comments
Yes...no...maybe.
Personally, I won't chance it. I'd prefer not to have the engine taken apart if it sludged using an oil that's on the list but I knew darn well didn't carry the right spec approval. Why go through the hassle? Especially when another oil that's on the list and carries the VW Spec 502.00 approval on the label is available. YMMV - it's a free country; feel free to use any oil as you see fit.
http://proformanceusa.com
The next oil change, I will have the engine flushed, and from this point on, use the Syntec
5w40 every 5000 miles (and not 1 mile over). My dealer will do the oil change, and I will supply the oil (so they can't pull the "you need all of your receipts" trick - they have been servicing the car since it was brand new - they have a record of every oil change - and so do I)...
Make sure the dealer notes on your service receipt that the oil was 502 compliant. And save all of the receipts from performanceusa.com.
Well we are buying our first brand new car ever and the passat 1.8t is one of our 3 choices. Own 2 VW right now NEVER had any problems. However I have been reading a lot about the sludge issue in earlier years. Come to this conclusion: VW should have never used regular oil in the Turbo. I have not seen a person yet that puts a Turbo in aftermarket and runs regular oil! Anyway we are stationed overseas and I have been calling the dealers here and the 1st thing they tell me is that with the services you have to use syn oil! So the dealers in Michigan where I called to inquire. I guess we are going thru this spiel one dealer says one thing another says something else. All 3 dealer statesside reminded me:) that it is syn oil. As much as I know VWOA has directed their dealers to use only that oil. Now I guess that is where the dealers set themselves apart. You would think though that dealers who refuse to change to that oil would be liable if something goeas wrong with the Turbo. Also if this helps on the VW site you can print out what syn oils meet the VW standard of 502.00. That way you cannot go wrong. Make the dealer note that you used the appropriate oil so you are good to go. If you do not like the dealer go home and call around until you find one you like. Once you do that you also see how big of a difference dealers charge when it comes to the large services. One dealer quoted me 526$ where the other quoted me 600$. When it came to the oil the difference in the 2 was 1$. Shop around before you settle. Ifeel bad for all the people who have had problems with earlier model years hopefully now with the switch it will make a big improvment. Oh and just so you know....do not feel bad spending 55$ for an oil/filter change over here in Germany itself it costs me 70euros which comes down to 92$ if the dollar stands decent, which just never seems to be the case:)
Can we take the engineering techno-babble somewhere else? I come here to escape my job for a few moments, not compound a headache.
I tried ask VoA, they've responded:"Ask your dealer." About what???
2 hours for oil change(selfcensored again :-)), missing parts after that...
I do not go to dealer after that. And who cares? Dealership, VoA? None of the above.
P.S. good luck with you new/future car(BTW,is it still VW?).
I went to my local VW dealer for a routine oil change and a tire rotation. I brought my own oil and left it in the backseat. I advised my service advisor of this. An hour and half later I was told my car was ready. I get in my car and look in the backseat and guess what I see? My unopened oil. I get out of my car and find my service advisor and ask what oil they used and he states "the oil that was in your backseat". I said the oil hasn't moved. He grabbed my paperwork and hurried towards the shop. They pull my car back around and (I hope) changed my oil again with the correct Mobil 1.
At this point I am wondering if they actually used my mobil 1 and changed my filter or just sat back in the shop for 15 minutes and pulled my car back around with the same oil in it. Also, on the window sticker it says they used regular oil and not synthetic. I asked about this and he stated they do use Castrol Syntec.
My advisor went into this long dialogue about how customer's come into the dealer with sludged engines and complain. When in actuality its the customer's fault because they can't prove they actually changed the oil.
I at least got a coffee mug for my inconvienence.......;-)
"Recently, Volkswagen of America issued a letter restating the appropriate oils to be used in the 1.8T engine in the Passat model. Emphasis was placed on the requirement that the oil meet VW Spec 502.00.
In that letter, a list of approved oils was included. Two Valvoline Synpower products made the list - Synpower 5w-30 and Synpower 5w-40.
Can you confirm that both of these oils meet VW Spec 502.00? Thank you."
In response, I received a .pdf file copy of Synpower product info sheet. The only two oils meeting noted as meeting VW Spec 502.00 are 5w-40 Synpower and 20w-50 Synpower.
Just for fun, I'm going to forward this on to VWoA and see what kind of response I get from Auburn Hills.
I used Gossett VW in Alpharetta GA.
We'd rather that you outline your problem in general terms and share info with other owners who have dealt with and possibly solved these issues.
Also, Complaint Boards tend to carry very nasty accusations along with them (people are, naturally, upset with the dealer about something) and this puts a lot of negativity into the forums. furthermore, we have no way to verify these accusations, which could be harmful and unfounded.
So I'd like to suggest that you use the NHTSA boards or other Consumer Advocate boards for long, detailed complaints against specific dealers.
In practice, it's easiest to go to a dealer, because if the dealer messes up, they have to answer to both you and to the manufacturer; whereas getting ANY independent shop to step up and fix stuff if difficult, they'll point fingers all over the place except towards themselves.
In practice, even at a dealer you need to keep your guard up and make sure work is done, and done properly:
Scratch or otherwise mark the oil filter so you are sure they didn't forget to replace it;
Check the oil level after an oil change (overfills are very common, underfills or no fills happen but less often);
And decide whether you want "bottles back" to act as a check that the cheap stuff from the overhead tubes didn't go into your car instead of the full synthetic. I thought asking for bottles back would offend the dealer, but they view you as part of the quality control process on their mechanics, so it's good for them too.
I try to go to just one dealer, in case they strip the oil plug (happened to me once and to two friends I know); if you switch between different places they'll deny it was THEIR fault.
And people wonder why manufacturers are starting to remove auto transmission dipsticks and fill tubes - it's probably because 75% of car repairs are caused by lack of maintenance, and 25% are caused by incompetent maintenance.
I base this on a few threads I've read on other forums in which receipts were rejected as evidence for the sludge issue because these things were missing.
Besotten by Passatan
thanks
Mrshiftright
host
Krzys
That's especially good if you do your own oil and filter changes.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
What do you recommend for breaking in, both for driving and for oil changes?
With a "race" engine, the fewer times you start 'em cold the better.
We'll switch to synthetic after 3,000...
Also, considering twin remote filters, both for increased oil capacity and cool factor - any problem filling these filters and lines up with the stock oil pump?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Heck, with 5 quarts of Castrol 5W30 costing only $6.00 at Wal-Mart, what's the harm?
I'm looking forward to working on it, but moreso to kicking the tail out on the drift track.
What do you think about the dual remote filter situation with the stock oil pump? I could have gotten a Nismo oil pump, but it was over $700, and that's insane, so we went with a $65 new OEM pump.
Why use the non-detergent oil for the first few hours or miles?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
I wonder if the detergent oils have (had) more lubricity and wouldn't let the rings rub enough to wear themselves and the walls smooth to give a good 'seating'?
What does your ring manufacturer recommend about breaking in the rings? I'd check their website or the package to see if that's mentioned.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
One, the non-detergent oil will pick up anything in suspension, and you're going to dump that out in 1/2 hour anyway, so why waste oil at $3 a quart?
Second, I'd like things to "bed in" a bit, and super slippery oil may not allow even the slightest amount of friction or heat. I'd also like to know if the engine is okay at idle...very good oil might just cover up a clearance problem, etc.
I'd rather hear something going on at 1,200 rpm than 5,000 rpm.
11:1 compression is a bit dicey...you have to have really good fuel. I hope you did your "engine math"...if your compression is just a bit too high, well....but I'm sure you were careful.
This compression issue is often found in engines which take "big bore kits" like VW and Porsche. You have to measure your cylinder and head capacities to the CC or you are a dead duck.
I think unless you are drag racing with super high HP, a stock OEM is fine. I'd be more concerned with baffling the oil pan than will overall flow rates. When you fling a car around, well, the factory engineers didn't always design for those extremes of "attitude".
Premium for the street, and 106/108 Sunoco at the track.
Thanks on the oil pump question - my kid is obsessed with hanging big twin K&N oil filters on the lower fenderwell, both for bling factor and ease of oil changes.
I'd sooner you ran without a filter at all---you get about the same amount of protection and even more miniscule HP gains.
We're going to be running an Injen cold air system for AIR.