but increased oil capacity - you can run an oil cooler, and some run a cooler AND dual filters, but you'd need a high volume oil pump, and at $700, we blew that off, already being $1200 over budget - he's doing some serious overtime at Pep Boys to pay for this thing.
The stock oil capacity is 5 quarts, with the little mini filter - with running 36" of 1/2" line, plus the fittings, plus 2 full sized (1 quart) filters like the Fram PH-A or Motorcraft FL-1 size (but not those filters), we'll increase capacity to right at 8 quarts. So, from what I'm reading, just adding that 2.5 to 3 quarts should drop our oil temp by 30-40 degrees.
A typical oil cooler added on would mean another 2-3 quarts, and another 40-50 degrees cooler, and in a full-on road race situation, that's the way to go. That is, unless you spring for a dry sump system, but that's out of our league.
Oh, really? I thought any oil would hold contaminants in supsension but that non-detergent didn'tn necessarily clean them off surfaces very well. Seems to me if you threw a speck of dirt in a jar of non detergent oil it would float around in there.
I don't think oil capacity and cooler temperatures are directly related, since oil without a cooler isn't all that great a coolant. If your engine is very hot, it will heat up 8 quarts of oil just a little slower than it will heat up 5, but eventually all the oil will be as hot as if it had 5 quarts. You need the cooler to disperse the heat, otherwise you're just heating up more oil than usual.
So to my mind, the extra capacity without the cooler isn't a complete solution and possibly not much of a betterment, vis a vis the money spent I mean.
But I guess you could test this by doing back to back runs with and without the two filters and testing it with a very accurate numerical oil temp gauge.
Also, low temps is not always good for an engine--there is an ideal range that you want to stay in.
so he has the only remote filter setup in town, along with the only non-turboed 240 conversion (that'll make more power than the SR20DET-converted 240s around..) - and, given the OE filter location, it's actually tough to get to - this makes it easier.
Hey, his money, I'm just making sure he stays away from the Turbonator and Tornado...
here's one I was pondering - if we ran a small oil cooler, should we install it AFTER the remote filters or before? I'd think that after would be better so the cooler wouldn't end up with junk in it over time..?
Also, can the stock oil pump push a small (like 4-pass) cooler and twin filters?
With the extra tubing and filters taking that much extra oil volume, how much residual dirty oil is left in the tubes when you change oil? I can't see the need for two filters. Just change the oil more often??? I know I'm going to get shot down with that one...
the tubes totally empty, it's not a problem. Relocating gets you easier oil changes, more filtration, bigger oil capacity, and way cool looks from your buddies...
Unfortunately the end results of the bypass filter more capapcity may be an increase in longevity from 200,000 miles to 250,000 miles. For most people, not worth the hassle or cost.
Also, this is a cool factor thing, not an extra 50,000 miles at 200,000 mile thing. This is a street driven race car - it'll be entered in drifting events. The hood will be up every chance my son gets.
You guys can stop with the logic arguments - this is a $40 part that doesn't hurt his car and it looks cool...
What I meant was that merely adding more oil capacity, without a means to cool it, isn't going to do much good. If it takes X minutes to cook 5 quarts of oil, then without external cooling, it will just take Y minutes to cook 10 quarts of oil.
I like the Cool factor, myself! And we aren't talking about some percieved coolness either. Like some big aluminum wing on a totally stock vehicle. Dual remote filter set up will definitely set his car apart from the rest.
I believe your owners manual would suggest using 5W30 year round.10W30 can also be used in very hot temps.Nothing special about the filter,use what is recommended and stay away from FRAM.
What are reasons my car might be loosing oil? Its only at 32K miles. Today I got an oil change (had been 4200 Miles since my last oil change) and the invoice said "1 qt low" - I called the mechanic back and he said this means 1 qt below low on the dipstick, so really almost 2 quarts off of "Full".
Some vehicle history: 1) Car is a 2004 and was bought new. I broke it in very easily, staying below 3000 RPM for the first 2000 miles. First oil change was at 1800 miles. 2) I found the drainplug was loose after an oil change around 25K. At this time, the car was ~2 Quarts low. I filled it up and tightened the drain-plug at this time. 3) I generally don't drive in super cold weather (San Francisco) and I periodically have high-revs but mostly I just commute to work at 65. 4) I use synthetic 5w30 and I get it changed every 3 to 4 K miles.
Any thoughts on possible reasons for low oil? a) Could the seals have been impacted by the low-oil / loose drainplug incident? b) Do occasional high-revs burn oil dramatically? Could this account for 1 QT low in 4000 miles? c) Any course of action that I should take besides checking it myself and adding oil when low?
BTW, this was 400 miles later when I noticed the drain-plug incident:
2) I found the drainplug was loose after an oil change around 25K. At this time, the car was ~2 Quarts low. I filled it up and tightened the drain-plug at this time.
You've gone two quarts low twice in 32K miles. I don't want to be harsh, but keep this up and you will kill that engine. You really need to get in the habit of checking your oil at least once a month (really, in your case, I'd suggest twice a month) and add the appropriate oil as needed.
Out of curiosity, what car and what engine are we talking about here?
where in the heck is the oil drain plug on my 2002 ford escape 3.0 L there is a plug and pan located below the engine but it looks like the automatic transmission oil pan.....
It's actually GOOD to burn a little bit of oil. Not a problem...in fact, if your car isn't burning any oil whatsoever, I'd recommend adding a "top oil" to the fuel as directed by the product.
thinking of attempting my first oil change on our '94 Corolla... questions:
1- can I use a Mityvac pump to get the oil out? I know it works on several different makes/models, not sure about our car. 2- where is the filter located? I'm guessing that it's underneath so I may need jacks and perhaps I should bypass the mityvac and just drain the oil out...? [prefer to go with mityvac since I have another car that I can use it with and the filter is accessible from the engine bay] 3- is it okay to switch to synthetic for this car? primary motivation is to reduce frequency of oil changes (from 3K miles to 7.5K miles).
OK, I can now one-up your story. In a recent oil change (at a "name brand" oil change shop) to a 2002 WRX with 2.0 liter engine, the guy put the plug on so loose it rattled out altogether and before long, of course, the car killed with the "check engine" light on. (Yes, I've since read all the "check up on the mechanic's work immediately" posts).
Appropriately enough, the car died right in front of my regular mechanic (not the oil change shop, and not affiliated in any way with them) so we hoisted it, found the plug missing altogether and I suspected the whole fiasco would result in a rebuilt/replaced engine paid by the oil change shop's insurance. However, my local guy proceeded to plug the drain, fill it with oil, and after spending the day evaluating it in the garage and on the road, told me it was fine, and that this type of engine would kill if there wasn't enough oil pressure, and that's what happened here. He believed the lack of oil pressure is what killed the engine and this happened before the lack of oil was capable of doing any damage to the engine.
Well, I still don't buy it... anyone willing to agree with the mechanic? Any legitimacy at all to the idea that there wouldn't be real damage to that engine, regardless of whether the kill was due to low pressure or not?
In what is probably an unrelated incident, about 30 miles and a few days later, after parking the car for a few hours I came out and it wouldn't start, wouldn't respond to a jump, and had to get towed and sit on a charger overnight before it would hold a charge. Strangely, it's been fine since, with the same battery and no other "fixes" or changes by the mechanic other than leaving it on the charger. The mechanic is still scratching his head on this one.
Back to the oil change. As my only car, I've got to drive the car, and it now hasn't given me any problems since these two incidents and it runs like it always has. But I'm real worried about this thing turning to a lemon before my eyes thanks to that oil change shop. Aside from these two incidents, I've never had a problem with this car in its 65,000 miles (the oil change was now a few hundred miles ago).
Any thoughts from the gallery? Aside from, um... check your mechanic's work, get a new mechanic, and start changing your own oil?
If the engine didn't blow up there's not much you can do anyway. If you did a cylinder leakdown test, the car is old enough to show some wear anyway, so that proves nothing.
I think if there was any serious damage you'd know it already. Yes, some engines are equipped to shut off as oil pressure drops, and this prevents engine damage. Actually you can drain all the oil out of an engine and it will run at idle quite happily. Modern engines and modern oils are amazing. I was saw a test where an engine had all the oil drained out, and the gas pedal was floored---it ran for about 9 minutes before seizing.
Hi, I'm having a problem and any help would be greatly appreciated! I have a 2003 Toyota Camry that I bought new which now has approx. 59000 miles on it. The engine light came on and I took it to the dealer thinking it was a sensor or something minor because other than the light coming on, it was running okay. When the dealer called me later in the day, he reported that I would need a new engine because the last person who changed my oil had broken the baffle. I am a single woman who has no mechanical aptitude, and I had never heard of a "baffle." They told me that it wouldn't be covered under warranty because they had not done the last oil change, so I, taking them at their word, contacted the independent garage and reported what my dealer had said. They told me they had never heard of such a thing, but would file it with their insurance company. The insurance company sent out an appraiser who looked at the car and then denied the claim saying that if the baffle had indeed broken off after the oil change that since it sits directly over the timing belt, they would have heard a grinding noise immediately and that I couldn't have driven the car another 3000 miles before the engine light came on. They also reported sludge in the engine.(I sent all service records for oil changes) I reported this to the Toyota Headquarters Customer Service Department who then sent the regional mechanic to look at the car who said that it was a broken baffle and Toyota would not fix anything. In the mean time, I had found the TBS. concerning this issue by Toyota. The customer rep from Toyota's Headquarters said that they had sent out a TBS. about this, and that it has happened to others. Has anyone here heard of similar problems? Or maybe you can offer any suggestions, I am looking at replacing a $5-7K engine. I think I'm getting screwed, I just don't know by who. Thanks Again, CynthiaB
I have talked so far to 2 attorneys- one said take the place where I had the oil last changed to small claims court- max. recovery is $3K, the other said I wouldn't qualify under any lemon laws because I've never tried to have it serviced, but I didn't have anything to service, it was fine and then it was gone. See why I don't know what to do? I don't want to sue anyone really, I just want my car fixed. Have you ever heard of a broken baffle?
Going to court is a distasteful thought I know...but something ain't right here!! Get a good attorney and let him do his job 'cause someone's doin' a job to you. Sometimes you have to stop being nice and fight for what you deserve and what you are entitled to. Aren't you a bit pissed off about the way you're being treated...and when do you say..."enough is enough"! Just my opinion, but at becoming 50 a few months ago, I had enough of always being "the nice guy" and getting walked over by everyone just to please everybody else. I finally wised up...and so should you!
Ok 97 Nissan truck, 160K miles, runs great. I got an oil change at the dealer the other day, and they left the oil cap off the engine. I have a 50 mile commute and was halfway home when I noticed oil on the windshield. Pulling over, I discovered about 1/2 quart of oil (judging by the level) had sprayed all over the engine compartment. Highway speeds had blown oil all the way to the back, so that I could see oil on the frame under the rear wheel well.
Ok, so obviously the dealer steam-cleaned the engine but there was still oil around the engine compartment on the nooks and crannies. Also, the oil has left the paint on the outside a little, shall we say, matted. I am not so concerned with the paint on the outside because I think with a good wax I could shine it up - but as for the engine compartment, there could be oil god knows where - inside gaskets, around electical connectors and rubber insulation, around the brakes, around rubber boots for the CV joints and etc. etc. etc.
What might be the long term consequences of having oil all over? Is it caustic/toxic enough to eat through rubber gaskets, electrical insulation, anything plastic or rubber?
What if some got on the brake surface? No noticable brake power loss right now.
At 160K I could probably expect some repairs soon, so how hard do I want to press this with the dealer?
Have him clean it up a little better is about all you can do. Trying to prove two years from now that something is related to this is going to be very difficult...you know it, the dealer knows it, so squeeze everything you can out of him/her now and then rest easy---you were lucky and if a connector is built to resist moisture it should certainly resist oil.
First of all I'd hire a mechanic to inspect and figure out what really happened. The story as stated makes no sense whatsoever. A "baffle" is a barrier INSIDE the oil pan that prevents oil from sloshing around on hard turns and thereby leaving the suction area of the oil pump. How anybody can break off a steel welded barrier inside an oil pan is going to be most interesting to hear about.
If this "flange" is some lip or casting part of the engine causing a leak, well then the last person/shop that serviced the car is "it" -- are you quite sure only $3,000 is recoverable in Small Claims? You should check yourself.
if you don't sue everyone is just going to weasel on you. Even a threat from an attorney might dislodge someone into settlement, who knows.
but you need to get your facts straight. I think this lack of rational information is what is impeding your progress. This isn't rocket science, you can understand this and you should find someone to explain it to you, so you know what happened.
In your earlier post, you mentioned a TSB on this topic. I read through the (admittedly brief) TSB section on Edmunds.com for your model yaer and found nothing. Could you please be more specific about the part, it's exact location, and what it is supposed to do? You'll get more useful responses here with more useful information.
it just isn't possible. unless all the welds were defective to begin with, and the tech abused the oil pan and a big piece broke off. lots of IFs there; if iff'n was fishin', we'd all have freezers full. somebody has to take the thing apart and look, it will require removing the engine, and it ought to be done under the imprimateur of an attorney. unless he shakes something loose where some fool tech was lying to get a large cash payment ("gawd, I'm sorry ma'am, the credit card machine is dead, make it a check. to "cash." or you are walking out of here, not driving. hurry up, gotta lock up in two minutes or the alarm is going off")
such a tall tale, broken baffles on a car that was running well. maybe the runner taking it around back was laying rubber and hit a rock. whatever, anything that would dislodge an oil pan baffle would leave a heck of a mess under the car that an idiot would recognize as wrong.
Thanks to all for replying, I'm glad to see that I'm not the only person who doesn't know what a baffle is. "but you need to get your facts straight. I think this lack of rational information is what is impeding your progress. This isn't rocket science, you can understand this and you should find someone to explain it to you, so you know what happened." (Mr. Shiftman) I am here trying to learn more valid information from people who I am sure have more automotive mechanical experience than I do, since I have none. It does sound irrational to hear my experience because I only know what I have been told, by Toyota and by the independent appraiser. I don't know where to look for additional resources for information because no one seems to have heard of this happening except for my Toyota Deal and Toyota, but they will not release other customer's information and can't validate that it has happened before. Trust me, I hate to be a dumb blonde, but this might as well be rocket science to me. The TBS I referred to is TBS # EG007-02 issued on March 22, 2002 by Toyota for All Models 93'-03.' The copy I have has a picture that shows the oil baffle and gives a example of a bent baffle, but doesn't show if it would be possible to go into the motor and cause the damage Toyota says has happened. The only link I could find that you don't have to pay to see is http://rav4world.com/tsb/EG007-02.pdf . If anyone could look at it and add any additional help, I would really appreciate it. I am now looking for an attorney, because I guess I'll have to sue someone, I just don't want to start a process and then find out that I'm suing the wrong person/company. I'd like to have as much information as I can before I start. Thanks Again for Your Time. Cynthia
Thanks for posting that TSB. Okay, now we are getting somewhere! So this "baffle" is located at the oil filler in the valve cover. Your car has a timing belt. I'm not sure how this baffle (an internal part) could interact with timing belt (an external part). Personally, I'd call that piece a "splash guard" since most people, when they hear "oil baffle" think of the piece in the oil pan at the bottom of the engine.
I could see if the baffle broke and fell into the cams that it would cause damage. I would guess that it could freeze a cam and the damage would be similar to a broken timing belt. Or if the cam froze, then the belt would go. I'm not sure what engine you have, but I see that Toyota is now designing "interference" engines (3.0 v-6). So you could have pancaked a bunch of valves. Seems to me that this could be repaired by rebuilding the head/valvetrain. Why a new engine, I don't know.
Right now, I'd guess that the last guy that did an oil change is the one going to pay. My theory would be he pushed it into the engine while either inserting the oil gun or while inserting a funnel. Man, that's a poor design, IMHO.
Now that I see Cynthia's .pdf that explains about the "baffle", something really is wrong here. I'm assuming that it's sheet metal, and is really a splash guard that keeps oil from the overhead cam from getting slung all over the place under the valve cover. The TSB posted addresses bending the corner of the "baffle" when inserting something to fill with oil, but I guess it's possible it could be bent hard enough to break it off. It's funny though that Cynthia says it was running fine and only the check engine light came on, so she took it in to have it checked out. That pretty much means that there's been no catastrophic failure. So, I'm wondering why the need for a new engine? Does this baffle have something to do with counteracting the tendency for Toyota engines to sludge? Cynthia, did the dealer or did the Toyota rep give you any diagnosis for what actually caused the check engine light to come on? Maybe someone with more knowledge of that particular engine can chime in here, but I agree with altair that unless the "baffle" broke off and has damaged the valve train, which doesn't sound likely since it was running good, why the need for a new engine?
Comments
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The stock oil capacity is 5 quarts, with the little mini filter - with running 36" of 1/2" line, plus the fittings, plus 2 full sized (1 quart) filters like the Fram PH-A or Motorcraft FL-1 size (but not those filters), we'll increase capacity to right at 8 quarts. So, from what I'm reading, just adding that 2.5 to 3 quarts should drop our oil temp by 30-40 degrees.
A typical oil cooler added on would mean another 2-3 quarts, and another 40-50 degrees cooler, and in a full-on road race situation, that's the way to go. That is, unless you spring for a dry sump system, but that's out of our league.
>One, the non-detergent oil will pick up >anything in suspension
I thought that was what the detergent additives in oil did? And oil without detergent did not hold contaminates in suspension?
Dave
I don't think oil capacity and cooler temperatures are directly related, since oil without a cooler isn't all that great a coolant. If your engine is very hot, it will heat up 8 quarts of oil just a little slower than it will heat up 5, but eventually all the oil will be as hot as if it had 5 quarts. You need the cooler to disperse the heat, otherwise you're just heating up more oil than usual.
So to my mind, the extra capacity without the cooler isn't a complete solution and possibly not much of a betterment, vis a vis the money spent I mean.
But I guess you could test this by doing back to back runs with and without the two filters and testing it with a very accurate numerical oil temp gauge.
Also, low temps is not always good for an engine--there is an ideal range that you want to stay in.
Hey, his money, I'm just making sure he stays away from the Turbonator and Tornado...
Also, can the stock oil pump push a small (like 4-pass) cooler and twin filters?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Also, this is a cool factor thing, not an extra 50,000 miles at 200,000 mile thing. This is a street driven race car - it'll be entered in drifting events. The hood will be up every chance my son gets.
You guys can stop with the logic arguments - this is a $40 part that doesn't hurt his car and it looks cool...
Some vehicle history:
1) Car is a 2004 and was bought new. I broke it in very easily, staying below 3000 RPM for the first 2000 miles. First oil change was at 1800 miles.
2) I found the drainplug was loose after an oil change around 25K. At this time, the car was ~2 Quarts low. I filled it up and tightened the drain-plug at this time.
3) I generally don't drive in super cold weather (San Francisco) and I periodically have high-revs but mostly I just commute to work at 65.
4) I use synthetic 5w30 and I get it changed every 3 to 4 K miles.
Any thoughts on possible reasons for low oil?
a) Could the seals have been impacted by the low-oil / loose drainplug incident?
b) Do occasional high-revs burn oil dramatically? Could this account for 1 QT low in 4000 miles?
c) Any course of action that I should take besides checking it myself and adding oil when low?
Thanks all for the advice.
2) I found the drainplug was loose after an oil change around 25K. At this time, the car was ~2 Quarts low. I filled it up and tightened the drain-plug at this time.
Out of curiosity, what car and what engine are we talking about here?
there is a plug and pan located below the engine but it looks like the automatic transmission oil pan.....
thanks mike
Altair4, Car is a 04 WRX with the 2.0 Turbo engine. Do turbos burn oil faster due to the higher pressure?
Car is a 04 WRX with the 2.0 Turbo engine. Do turbos burn oil faster due to the higher pressure?
Uh, I think you should consider full synthetic oil, if you aren't already using it. Better resistance to thermal breakdown (sludging).
1- can I use a Mityvac pump to get the oil out? I know it works on several different makes/models, not sure about our car.
2- where is the filter located? I'm guessing that it's underneath so I may need jacks and perhaps I should bypass the mityvac and just drain the oil out...? [prefer to go with mityvac since I have another car that I can use it with and the filter is accessible from the engine bay]
3- is it okay to switch to synthetic for this car? primary motivation is to reduce frequency of oil changes (from 3K miles to 7.5K miles).
Thanks.
JR
Appropriately enough, the car died right in front of my regular mechanic (not the oil change shop, and not affiliated in any way with them) so we hoisted it, found the plug missing altogether and I suspected the whole fiasco would result in a rebuilt/replaced engine paid by the oil change shop's insurance. However, my local guy proceeded to plug the drain, fill it with oil, and after spending the day evaluating it in the garage and on the road, told me it was fine, and that this type of engine would kill if there wasn't enough oil pressure, and that's what happened here. He believed the lack of oil pressure is what killed the engine and this happened before the lack of oil was capable of doing any damage to the engine.
Well, I still don't buy it... anyone willing to agree with the mechanic? Any legitimacy at all to the idea that there wouldn't be real damage to that engine, regardless of whether the kill was due to low pressure or not?
In what is probably an unrelated incident, about 30 miles and a few days later, after parking the car for a few hours I came out and it wouldn't start, wouldn't respond to a jump, and had to get towed and sit on a charger overnight before it would hold a charge. Strangely, it's been fine since, with the same battery and no other "fixes" or changes by the mechanic other than leaving it on the charger. The mechanic is still scratching his head on this one.
Back to the oil change. As my only car, I've got to drive the car, and it now hasn't given me any problems since these two incidents and it runs like it always has. But I'm real worried about this thing turning to a lemon before my eyes thanks to that oil change shop. Aside from these two incidents, I've never had a problem with this car in its 65,000 miles (the oil change was now a few hundred miles ago).
Any thoughts from the gallery? Aside from, um... check your mechanic's work, get a new mechanic, and start changing your own oil?
I think if there was any serious damage you'd know it already. Yes, some engines are equipped to shut off as oil pressure drops, and this prevents engine damage. Actually you can drain all the oil out of an engine and it will run at idle quite happily. Modern engines and modern oils are amazing. I was saw a test where an engine had all the oil drained out, and the gas pedal was floored---it ran for about 9 minutes before seizing.
I'm having a problem and any help would be greatly appreciated! I have a 2003 Toyota Camry that I bought new which now has approx. 59000 miles on it. The engine light came on and I took it to the dealer thinking it was a sensor or something minor because other than the light coming on, it was running okay. When the dealer called me later in the day, he reported that I would need a new engine because the last person who changed my oil had broken the baffle. I am a single woman who has no mechanical aptitude, and I had never heard of a "baffle." They told me that it wouldn't be covered under warranty because they had not done the last oil change, so I, taking them at their word, contacted the independent garage and reported what my dealer had said. They told me they had never heard of such a thing, but would file it with their insurance company. The insurance company sent out an appraiser who looked at the car and then denied the claim saying that if the baffle had indeed broken off after the oil change that since it sits directly over the timing belt, they would have heard a grinding noise immediately and that I couldn't have driven the car another 3000 miles before the engine light came on. They also reported sludge in the engine.(I sent all service records for oil changes) I reported this to the Toyota Headquarters Customer Service Department who then sent the regional mechanic to look at the car who said that it was a broken baffle and Toyota would not fix anything. In the mean time, I had found the TBS. concerning this issue by Toyota. The customer rep from Toyota's Headquarters said that they had sent out a TBS. about this, and that it has happened to others. Has anyone here heard of similar problems? Or maybe you can offer any suggestions, I am looking at replacing a $5-7K engine.
I think I'm getting screwed, I just don't know by who.
Thanks Again,
CynthiaB
Just my opinion, but at becoming 50 a few months ago, I had enough of always being "the nice guy" and getting walked over by everyone just to please everybody else. I finally wised up...and so should you!
The Sandman
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Sandman :confuse:
Ok 97 Nissan truck, 160K miles, runs great. I got an oil change at the dealer the other day, and they left the oil cap off the engine. I have a 50 mile commute and was halfway home when I noticed oil on the windshield. Pulling over, I discovered about 1/2 quart of oil (judging by the level) had sprayed all over the engine compartment. Highway speeds had blown oil all the way to the back, so that I could see oil on the frame under the rear wheel well.
Ok, so obviously the dealer steam-cleaned the engine but there was still oil around the engine compartment on the nooks and crannies. Also, the oil has left the paint on the outside a little, shall we say, matted. I am not so concerned with the paint on the outside because I think with a good wax I could shine it up - but as for the engine compartment, there could be oil god knows where - inside gaskets, around electical connectors and rubber insulation, around the brakes, around rubber boots for the CV joints and etc. etc. etc.
What might be the long term consequences of having oil all over? Is it caustic/toxic enough to eat through rubber gaskets, electrical insulation, anything plastic or rubber?
What if some got on the brake surface? No noticable brake power loss right now.
At 160K I could probably expect some repairs soon, so how hard do I want to press this with the dealer?
If this "flange" is some lip or casting part of the engine causing a leak, well then the last person/shop that serviced the car is "it" -- are you quite sure only $3,000 is recoverable in Small Claims? You should check yourself.
if you don't sue everyone is just going to weasel on you. Even a threat from an attorney might dislodge someone into settlement, who knows.
but you need to get your facts straight. I think this lack of rational information is what is impeding your progress. This isn't rocket science, you can understand this and you should find someone to explain it to you, so you know what happened.
such a tall tale, broken baffles on a car that was running well. maybe the runner taking it around back was laying rubber and hit a rock. whatever, anything that would dislodge an oil pan baffle would leave a heck of a mess under the car that an idiot would recognize as wrong.
"but you need to get your facts straight. I think this lack of rational information is what is impeding your progress. This isn't rocket science, you can understand this and you should find someone to explain it to you, so you know what happened." (Mr. Shiftman)
I am here trying to learn more valid information from people who I am sure have more automotive mechanical experience than I do, since I have none. It does sound irrational to hear my experience because I only know what I have been told, by Toyota and by the independent appraiser. I don't know where to look for additional resources for information because no one seems to have heard of this happening except for my Toyota Deal and Toyota, but they will not release other customer's information and can't validate that it has happened before. Trust me, I hate to be a dumb blonde, but this might as well be rocket science to me.
The TBS I referred to is TBS # EG007-02 issued on March 22, 2002 by Toyota for All Models 93'-03.' The copy I have has a picture that shows the oil baffle and gives a example of a bent baffle, but doesn't show if it would be possible to go into the motor and cause the damage Toyota says has happened. The only link I could find that you don't have to pay to see is http://rav4world.com/tsb/EG007-02.pdf . If anyone could look at it and add any additional help, I would really appreciate it.
I am now looking for an attorney, because I guess I'll have to sue someone, I just don't want to start a process and then find out that I'm suing the wrong person/company. I'd like to have as much information as I can before I start.
Thanks Again for Your Time.
Cynthia
I could see if the baffle broke and fell into the cams that it would cause damage. I would guess that it could freeze a cam and the damage would be similar to a broken timing belt. Or if the cam froze, then the belt would go. I'm not sure what engine you have, but I see that Toyota is now designing "interference" engines (3.0 v-6). So you could have pancaked a bunch of valves. Seems to me that this could be repaired by rebuilding the head/valvetrain. Why a new engine, I don't know.
Right now, I'd guess that the last guy that did an oil change is the one going to pay. My theory would be he pushed it into the engine while either inserting the oil gun or while inserting a funnel. Man, that's a poor design, IMHO.
It's funny though that Cynthia says it was running fine and only the check engine light came on, so she took it in to have it checked out. That pretty much means that there's been no catastrophic failure. So, I'm wondering why the need for a new engine?
Does this baffle have something to do with counteracting the tendency for Toyota engines to sludge? Cynthia, did the dealer or did the Toyota rep give you any diagnosis for what actually caused the check engine light to come on?
Maybe someone with more knowledge of that particular engine can chime in here, but I agree with altair that unless the "baffle" broke off and has damaged the valve train, which doesn't sound likely since it was running good, why the need for a new engine?