Oil change/fiascos

wtd44

My vehicles all are mile counters. The condition of the oil does not play apart in the oil change reminder feature.

isellhondas

I took a nice 1997 Civic in as a trade in. One owner car with I think 65,000 miles on it.

The next day, I noticed about six technicians staring at the engine as it was receiving it's used car inspection.

Curious, I walked over to see what was so interesting.

They had pulled the valve cover and the entire valve cover and valve train were coated in thick black sludge! It honestly looked like the car had never had an oil change.

It looked like someone had shoveled roofing tar into the engine. Surprisingly, it still ran like a typical Honda.

Just made everyone sick to see such abuse.

We sold it yesterday to a wholesaler.

jlflemmons

We had a Delta 88 police unit come in on a wrecker one day with a locked engine. The mechie put it on the lift and pulled the drain plug. Nothing came out. When the oil pan was pulled, it was full of something that resembled chocolate pudding. Chemical analysis showed it to be over 50% STP. Seems that whenever the unit was low on oil, STP was added. And oil changes were not being done.

Their warranty claim was denied. Go figure.

gonogo

Hey alcan how about $5 for oil, $2 for filter and every 2 years bring 3 five gallon cans of waste oil to recycler, no charge. The person who wrote that procedure had a vivid imagination LOL.

mitzij

The newer GMs have an 'oil life monitoring system'. It's described to me as I described in my earlier post. It won't go off at a set mileage. I've had customers go 7000, 8000 miles and the light does not come on. Usually, they come in and get their oil changed when they get worried. Checking these cars with a TECH2 shows a decent "percent oil life left".
If memory serves, the owner's manual states to wait for the light or do an oil change once a year, whichever hits first.

wlbrown9

Yep...we have the '04 Envoy SLT (lower trim versions might not have as many options for display) that has all the features..also takes about 7 quarts instead of the standard 5. I changed the first oil at about 3500 if I recall correctly. Since then I've been going 4500 - 5000 maximum. My 'oil life indicator' has never gone below 55% remaining. It is one of the many items you can display. To reset when changing, hold down the reset button for 5-10 seconds and the display goes back to 100%. I'm thinking I may need to start noting the life remaining when changing oil now since there is no 7500 statement in the manual. I've tried to go by about half the maximum interval in the past. Seems most of mine manuals has said to change about ever 7500 miles under normal conditions. In most cases I have tried to change at no more than 4000-4500 miles, usually closer to 3500.

94hawkskin

I was wondering if people could give me their thoughts on a business idea.

My idea is to have a place for you to change your own oil. We would have it set up just like a jiffy lube, but you actually do your own oil change. I'm thinking the charge would be about $5.

We would supply the bay and also have tools and a mechanic on hand in case you had trouble. We would also have oil filters and oil for sale or you could bring your own.

The advantages are you don't have to worry about dumping your oil somewhere, raisng your car, having the right tools and you make sure you do it right.

Disadvantages: Have to pay to do your own work, have to drive somewhere else.

We could also offer antifreeze and transmission flushes that you do yourself.

Right now I'm thinking it would not be a bad idea, but probably not good enough to justify the costs. What do you guys think.

imidazol97

Have you checked into liability insurance?

wlbrown9

There used to be a place in Memphis where you could use a bay to do your own work. Don't know what happened to it. But besides the liability that someone else mentioned, the cost of the the specialized building with pits, drain pans might be a little pricy to be supported by a small fee. The chain places that run folks through (stopped at one a couple of weeks ago for the 7-9 am $19.99 special. I was done and on the way in 10 minutes since I was first in line. They have one under draining/filter and one or two working the top to check things, try to sell you blades and filters as well as add the oil. If I did it myself even with that setup, it would be a lot slower, especially if I had to go up and down to drain and replace the filter, then back up to add oil.. Come to think of it, probably the best way to do this would be if you found a Jiffy Lube, VIOC or other that was moving and needed to get rid of a building set up for this.

Hey, good idea though...you will probably have to come up with some concrete cost figures for building, equipment and insurance to see if a business plan will work. One thing to remember is that there are a whole lot more do-it-yourselfers that would use this on the weekends...might be kind of slow M-F.

One other long term liability of a site like this would be possible ground contamination from oil and other fluids. IF the fluids leaked in the ground, possible expensive cleanup...might want to check that angle.

downsouth

Hi folks, just found this web site and joined today, motivation, disgruntled with dealership. Man those folks anger me every time i go. I have a 2004 model that the owners manual calls out for 8.5 qts oil and they always put in 7. Now with that top mounted upside down filter sure it is going to show full at the first 7 qts. I always wait a day, find a nice level spot to check it again my self, it always shows a bit low, so I go and get the correct grade and add the proper amount. I tell the dealer ship about this every single time but they continue with this practice. It's really buggin me. Last service they didn't even have the air filters I need and I can't find a place that carries them yet (so if anybody know who carries them let me know OK)Speaking of dealerships, mine is a quote 5 Star Yeah right but they don't even carry tires for the crossfires and of course I picked up a nail in a sidewall three weeks after I bought it and at $300 a pop I still had to wait a week to get the new tire. I am glad I found this forum. Are there commercially available maintenance manuals available somewhere? Thanks folks BAP (haven't had time to read all the xxx number of posts yet)

bremertong

Many thanks for your reply. I was changing every four months or 4000 miles, last change was a fiasco in that the engine started leaking oil after the change. The car a 2004 Cadillac Deville has only 29,000 miles on it, still under warranty. The dealership changed the oil filter adapter gasket. No evidence of leaking since (work done just five days ago). Am suspicious that something happened at the last oil change to cause the leak, could have been over filling the oil. For this reason I am looking to change less often to avoid this type of time consuming fiasco. The oil life indicator should be a somewhat reliable indicator along with maximum of five months, 5000
miles or a reading of 40% oil life left on the indicator.
I have always tried to keep my cars in top shape and they generally sell almost as soon as they hit dealers lot when
traded in. My only concern is not putting extra wear on the engine by changing less often.

wtd44

No matter what intervals might be acceptable to protect your Caddy engine, were it mine I would give it the 3000 mile interval on oil and filter, just as I do on all my cars and trucks. Seldom do circumstances cause me to go beyond 3500 at the most.

sandman46

I've started changing the oil and filter at about the 4k range and the car still runs great. The mechanic said the oil color is just fine and even suggested 5k intervals as just fine. But since my commute is a 9 mile stop and go trip, I will stay at the 4k limit. I was thinking about switching to synthetic, but I don't feel that the price and longer change interval would be worth it. Any suggestions would be great here...should I switch out to synthetic with a 8 or 9k change interval?
Thanks for any and all help with this!

The Sandman :confuse:

Mr_Shiftright

never go by "color". That really doesn't tell you anything.

If you want to be dead sure and you want to go on extended oil changes, have the oil analyzed periodically.

coldcranker

Whatever you do, DON'T be a frequent oil changer. This will shake up your understanding: "Engine wear actually decreases as oil ages. This has also been substantiated in testing conducted by Ford Motor Co. and ConocoPhillips, and reported in SAE Technical Paper 2003-01-3119. What this means is that compulsive oil changers are actually causing more engine wear than the people who let their engine's oil get some age on it.
" That SAE tech paper documents it. It may have something to do with tiny carbon particles suspended in the oil which prevent metal-to-metal rubbing. This means we should leave the oil in for at least 6,000 to 8,000 miles or so. Quote is from http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html .

burdawg

Looks like that advice is based on using synthetics. Petroleum based lubricants have different characteristics. I doubt if the carbon particles have any thing to do with it, unless they're so small they can bypass the filter.

highroller

I used to believe that until i found out there's actually no REAL evidence to support that theory.

jneal

I've been driving for 45 years and change oil at 3K intervals.
Haven't worn out an engine yet by changing oil too frequently......

coldcranker

Its no longer a theory when there is evidence in the SAE tests, and corroborated by user-oil-analysis, as well as with Conoco and Ford's own tests. And, yes, the carbon particles are small enough to slip through the oil filter. Case in point: Remember the 1981 Arco Graphite motor oil, with the tiny carbon particles suspended in the oil when new? They showed it reduced wear. This has more evidence to support it than mental misconceptions about wear rates. Look at the data, from many sources.

coldcranker

You just wasted enormous amounts of time, money, and oil dumping over 45 years.

Mr_Shiftright

Well there is never "metal-to-metal" rubbing (that would last about 10 seconds!) and fact is, oil breaks down over time due to contamination, a natural and unavoidable phenomenon.

How much oil breaks down and what level (and type!) of contamination is what an oil anaylsis does. An analysis might very well justify leaving your oil in for 8K miles...sure...but there's no guesswork about it.

Besides, if you find say a lot of bearing material in your oil you can perhaps intervene and prevent a catastophe.

altair4

Wow, who knows how much farther than 200K miles I might have gotten? Oh, wait...the rest of the car turned to rust before I ever wore out an engine!

isellhondas

That Arco Graphite oil of 1981 was on the market about as long as the infamous 4-6-8 Cadillac engine of 1981!

highroller

I looked at the datas and read all the facts.. i just cant simply think that running the oil out for longer intervals will in fact Reduce Wear. Given the driving conditions of the people today and comparing with the SAE tests, there is just too much variable to be totally conclusive on this theory. You have to take into account the driving conditions of all the driver's out on the road. Let's say if one is a regular highway driver, and all of a sudden starts to drive off-road in the dirt daily for about 5000 miles or so, don't you think the oil will be accumulated with many dirt particles by the time the longer interval is within reached? Therefore, the oil will tend to breakdown. How fast or how long before it starts to breakdown is very dependent on the driver.

wtd44

...3K oil changes. Don't overlook the possibility that the extension of the life of an engine by various processes and procedures can be so small as to be inconsequential. Over running the useful life of motor oil certainly can shorten the life of moving parts and mating surfaces. This is not a crypto fact/claim, but rather a basic tenet of automotive engineering. The physical science involved is well documented.

gonogo

In other words save the engine for someone else, I go 5000 miles or 1 year.

imidazol97

Keeping the engine well-maintained helps with the resale value. When you can show that it has been carefully maintained, rather than run to the limits of oil life, helps there.

Friend just bought a car with 150K mi on it. He feels it's good to 300K before needing work. A 4-cyl. He took a mechanically knowledgeable person in that brand of car with him to inspect the car to see if it really had been dealer maintained regularly. It's a 1992.

gonogo

It's a 1992,150K, engine or transmission could go at anytime. Did you notice that extended warranty rarely go over 100K, there is a reason for that. Mechanical things just wear out.

imidazol97

Did I mention that it's a Mercedes his daughter wanted?

OTOH my last leSabre I traded had 150K and the motor and trannie ran fine. I've been tempted to look up the VIN to see if it's still running around. I'll have to have my wife look in our records for the VIN number.

wtd44

It never is a mistake to take care of your property, and let someone else reap a portion of the benefit when you sell it or trade it off. Often times, people who buy high mileage used cars are folks that could stand some human kindness and a helping hand. One day if they get to the status in life to buy new or low mileage vehicles, they can extend some human kindness to others as well...

gonogo

By golly that is touching, never looked at it that way, but what if it turns out to be a bank robber. I have always looked at saving money a good thing.

buckeye1872

Hi iam new to site and looking for advice. About 3 weeks ago my wife took car to walmart for oil change.02' Ford Tauras..24 valve doh cam 54,000 miles. They double gasketed the filter(left old one on). Wife drove around town and car lost 5 of the 6 quarts of oil. Wal Mart knows they did this as they left message on machine saying we needed to contact them as soon as possible..oil trail out of their bay. Now I have low compression in a cylinder. They have set me up with rental car and and authorized dealer to find root of problem to see if the cause is due to the loss of oil. My question is, if the car ran perfect before the oil change fubar, and now I have a bad cylinder, can they deny their mess up dint cause the problem. Also, what else could be ready to explode inside the motor if all they do is fix this problem. Thanks for advice.

wtd44

I'm with you! Saving money is one of the great virtues. Bank robbers, on the other hand, lack virtue to some degree...

isellhondas

You need to have them install a new engine or else have the old engine totally rebuilt. Don't let them do a Micky Mouse job on it!

wtd44

Unfortunately, most "new" engines installed in warranty cases are actually factory or OEM rebuilt units. Often they are referred to as "crate" engines.

isellhondas

And they are usually just fine.

wtd44

...but not newly manufactured, as many people do not realize.

Mr_Shiftright

who knows how to rebuild an engine better than the factory?

wtd44

You imply a very good point, but your key word is "rebuild." Many consumers think that when they get a "new engine" after some fiasco, that they are getting a brand new engine rather than a rebuilt, and arguably just as good, engine.

gonogo

The factory does not rebuild engines or transmissions, they are farmed out to independent jobbers to GM specs.

Mr_Shiftright

Well I don't know....anyway, whoever rebuilds it, it's good enough for a factory warranty, not the jobber's warranty.

isellhondas

It could actually be a brand new engine.

z142

Should used engine oil smell like gas? I noticed that mine did when I was checking it earlier. Is this normal or is there some kind of problem?

imidazol97

It can be from a lot of short trip driving without a longer trip of 30 minutes to heat up the oil and purge a lot of combustion byproducts that end up in the oil.

bremertong

Thanks for your post. I only wish there were more people on this planet that thought like you do. It seems that the vast majority feel that unless they cheat the next guy they'll be cheated first. Is it any wonder that we see one scam after another.

I generally change my oil about every 3500 miles or three and one half months, whichever comes first. I also benefit in that dealers are eager to take my cars in trade as they sell quickly and help build a good reputation for the selling dealer.

Mr_Shiftright

Could be "oil dilation". One way to tell is to see if the level on your dipstick is actually showing fuller than usual.

Oil dilation, if in excess, can be fatal to an engine...but it has to be a considerable quantity---enough to push the dip stick reading higher than normal.

Sometimes if you do lots of quick trips in cold weather, you'll get some oil dilation but the fuel burns off when you hit the highway and get the engine warmed up.

REALLY excessive oil dilation by gasoline can even cause an explosion, but we are talking radical amounts of fuel in the oil here.

imidazol97

Does oil dilution occur with electric fuel pumps unless there's a serious ring or piston problem or misfiring letting unburned gas go down the walls into the oil. I realize oil dilution occured with fuel pumps that used an arm into the motor to a cam for power and they could leak gas directly into the motor oil.

jlflemmons

Yes, even with an electric fuel pump. If the vehicle is used for frequent short trips and the engine is always running "cold" unburned fuel can wash past the rings and get into the oil pan. Shiftright is very correct in the danger of this causing an explosion being remote. It would take A LOT of gasoline in the oil to ignite, but it can happen and with disastrous engine damage.

Most often, you will only see increased engine wear from the fuel diluting the oil. And the best way to avoid the problem is to take the vehicle out for a nice long drive when it has been used for short hops. Once the engine is up to normal temps, the fuel will vent off and the oil will be in better shape.

z142

I don't think that's the case with my car. I drive 50 miles away and back twice a week, so there's 4 long trips. But... I do a lot of 1 or 2 mile trips too. I will check it after my next long trip. What should I do if that doesn't get rid of the gas smell? Or what could possibly be wrong with my car? I'm basically wondering if I have a problem that's worth fixing or if I should get rid of the car since it's getting old and starting to have other problems anyway.
By the way... thanks for the help, everyone. I feel better knowing that this is somewhat normal.

imidazol97

Tell us about your car. Year, model, motor, time since last oil change, oil used?