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Comments
The Sandman
Amsoil dealers just remind me of the guys that used to sell the Franz oil filters. Anyone remember those?
I never went that long when I used amsoil although I know people who did. I was doing 15,000 miles with a filter change at about 7,500 miles.
These days, you're not even supposed to throw ordinary oil filters in the trash, what with all the oil still trapped in them. (I change my oil at work, where we have Safety-Kleen come in to take the recycled oil as well as the used oil filters.)
I really don't understand the OLM actually. I do about 80% city driving with a 19 mile round trip to work. I've always considered this a "severe change interval" and have never gone more than 4.5k miles. With this kind of driving, will synthetic just be a waste for me or should I just stick with 5W20 dino juice?
I know you just sell cars, but maybe one of your trusted mechanics could give me some clarity here. If not, that's o k too.
The Sandman
(My son's home from college and he's racking up lots of miles, so I should be at 15% by the time he leaves in 2 weeks.)
But, that's me. I know I tend to over maintain my cars especially when it comes to oil changes.
It probably makes little difference if I change my oil every 4000 miles or every 8000 miles but I just feel better doing it more often.
Maybe some of this comes from some of the sludged up engines I have seen.
I know I "just sell cars" but in one of my former lives I managed a large shop.
John,
http://www.dripslipper.com/
Thats a waste of time and money, and does extra environmental damage. The real reason synthetic oil is great is to provide one-year oil changes, and the filters (Mobil1's EP line or Amsoil's EAO line) are up to the task as well. Just look for an oil with the tougher ACEA test ratings along with the GF-4 and SM ratings, such as Mobil1 EP oils or Amsoil's 0w-30, for example.
Give me a break. I recycle my oil.
If you choose to use a particular oil and pattern for yourself, that's fine. Please don't critique other's like myself. I change my oil to remove contaminants collected from starts and short trips. In winter especially that means I change at 3000-3500, depending on the mix of driving the car has had.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Also, a little bit of small solid particles in your oil have also been shown to lower the wear rate on internal engine parts. This has been shown by SAE engineering study tests and other oil-analysis tests, as well as tests in the 70's by Arco, the makers of Arco Graphite motor oil back then, which put graphite carbon particles in the oil and it lowered the wear rate.
BTW graphite is a soft form of carbon (C).
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Personally, I believe Arco Graphite, the Mobil company taxi tests, the SAE paper, and the oil analysis guys results. Taken together, they are all strong evidence that you don't need to constantly change your oil. 10,000 miles would be plenty conservative with a good synthetic. 15,000 miles would usually be fine. If the conditions are very dusty (lots of dirt road, Mojave/Sonoran desert, etc.) then 8,000 might be enough since the filter has to trap a lot of silica in that case, to be cautious.
30,000 miles is too much for the acid-neutralizing chemicals added to modern oils. With too much acid, metal begins to etch away, increasing metal loss (wear). Also, oil will thicken a bit with age, so you don't want to push it past 15,000 or so with a good synthetic. One should change a good quality oil filter at every 15,000 miles or so (Amsoil EAO filter or Mobil1 EP filter) to keep it from being clogged.
You just said you changed your oil at 6,000 or less. You worried enough to change your oil too often, wasting time/money. A lot of other people have been duped into these irrational habits, too, so I'm not just picking on you.
A side note: Before I bought my VW, I joined several forums that addressed that particular car. The debate back in 2002 was did the 1.8T need to run on synthetic. Guys argued up and down that no it didn't - don't worry, be happy. Then VW handed down a recommendation/requirement for synthetic oil that met their own specs. Then guys started arguing that no you don't have to follow their specs, any synth will do and you can extend the OCI. Then the cases of coked/sludged engines started to appear more frequently. Then when VW denied warranty coverage due to extended OCI's, a mighty wailing and gnashing of teeth was heard. Ain't gonna happen to me
Thanks
It's superior to 5W-20 (even Mobil 1 5W-20) as it flows quicker following a cold start.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Now, THAT is just plain funny! :shades:
Check out the Synthetic Oil forum here and just read what a few of the more knowledgeable posters have said about the oil change frequency topic. It really is required reading for anyone in Edmunds. And the dealer has an alterior motive in getting you to live by the 3k change interval...more $ in his pocket.
Folks, we're in the 21st century now...why rely on outdated information from 50 years ago?
The Sandman
You've never been lied to by a dealer before? Geez, some of the very worst automotive maintenance advice that I've ever heard has come from dealers. :P
Best Regards,
Shipo
Unless you're using cheap oil and driving under horrid condtions, there is no scientific evidence what-so-ever that proves that a 3K OCI will lead to a longer engine life. The flip side of course is that if you are running a good high quality synthetic oil; then all evidence available suggests that OCIs of 10,000 miles or more can be achieved with zero negative effects on the engine. Thinking about this logically, given that synthetic oil flows faster during a cold engine start event and as such starts lubricating sooner, it could be said that an engine will give a longer service life if lubricated on GroupIV synthetic oil and 10,000 mile OCIs than it will on conventional oil even with 3,000 mile OCIs.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Like it or not, 3,000 mile oil changes with synthetic oil are silly.
Best Regards,
Shipo
Best Regards,
Shipo
- Frequent short trip driving less than 5 miles (8 km)
- Frequent driving in dusty conditions
- Excessive trailer towing
- Extensive idling
- More than 50% of our driving is at sustained high speeds during hot weather, above 90 F (32 C)
If ANY of these apply to you, then change your engine oil every 3,000 miles (4,800 km) or 3 months, whichever comes first.
If none of these apply toyou, then change your engine oil every 7,500 miles (12,000 km) or 6 months, whichever comes first.
A few thoughts:
1) For the first 7 years and 85,000 miles, our 1998 was either driven to and from the bus station or driven into the Garment District in Manhattan on virtually every trip that wasn't to the grocery store or the dry cleaners. Said another way, if the driving characteristics of any given trip didn't fall under the first severe service bullet item, it fell under the forth.
2) Since June of 2005 (over 50,000 miles ago), that same van has spent probably 75% of its operational time with the speedometer registering something well north of 65 and often north of 80.
3) I'm guessing 100,000 miles of the currently showing 136,000 miles on that van have fallen under what Chrysler would term "Severe Serivce".
4) Understanding the "Why?" as to the reasoning behind Chrysler's recommendation of 3,000 miles for an OCI means, to me at least, that given the capabilities of modern Synthetic Oil, 10,000 mile OCIs are both appropriate and conservative.
5) Used Oil Analysis proves the 10,000 mile OCI comment from #4 is indeed very accurate.
Question: While I haven't checked, the popular myth seems to be that "Everyone" recommends a 3,000 mile OCI for practically all real world driving enviornments. Is that really the case or is it just Chrysler?
Best Regards,
Shipo
As far as automakers go, Chrysler is in the small minority (maybe a minority of one). GM cars mostly have oil life monitors, and their owner's manuals say to wait until the monitor indicates it's time to change the oil (or 1 year), whichever occurs sooner. For Toyota, it's 5000 miles or 6 months, whichever comes first. IIRC, Honda says 10,000 miles or 12 months. BMW uses oil life monitors like GM.
The people who recommend the 3000 mile OCIs are the Jiffy Lubes of the world and their ilk. And of course you have all the diehards who believe what their fathers and grandfathers told them is still true!
I go with 6 months on my current vehicles using conventional oil. None of the cars accumulates 5000 miles within 6 months. Two of the cars (both Camrys) are still under their manufacturer 5/60 powertrain warranties.
Ummm, I would prefer to say, "GM uses OLMs like BMW." My 1999 328i (which was built in 1998) came with an OLM that was nominally targeted to 15,000 miles (it typically recommended about 14,000 miles in NYC traffic). My 2002 530i seemed to operate very similarly, however, as I picked the car up in Germany and broke it in on the AutoBahns, I guess it wasn't too surprising that the OLM recommended my first oil change at 13,000 miles. Right about that time my wife and I moved from the NYC area to southern New Hampshire, however, I still had clients in the NYC area, and I spent the next couple of years commuting back and forth two to three times a month. Given the relatively steady and relatively sedate highway speeds I was driving, I guess it shouldn't be too surprising that my OLM recommended my second oil change at the 32,000 mile mark, fully 19,000 miles after the previous one.
"I go with 6 months on my current vehicles using conventional oil. None of the cars accumulates 5000 miles within 6 months. Two of the cars (both Camrys) are still under their manufacturer 5/60 powertrain warranties."
My wife and I are the exact opposite of you. We are currently driving two Dodge Grand Caravans, and both of our work places have moved/are moving this year. When the second move is complete, we will be commuting in opposite directions from our house, and our annual combined mileage will be somewhere north of 90,000 miles. If I was to adhere to the 3,000 mile OCI thing, I'd be needing to do more than 30 oil changes per year! Yikes! I can't tell you how glad I am that the UOAs on our vans have proven that Mobil 1 0W-40 is good for an easy 10,000 miles (with a comfortable margin of error of at least an additional 2,000 miles).
Best Regards,
Shipo
He bought the prepaid maintenance package, which includes the oil changes at 5000-mile intervals, but he's paying out of pocket for the "in between" ones. Some of us tried to talk him out of it, but you know what conversing with a wall is like!
But any way you cut it, 3-week, 2500-mile oil changes are obsessive. One reason he gives is fear of sludge. Well, that problem is 5 years in the past regarding Toyota. I hope this guy doesn't use synthetic!
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Imidazol - he has to keep to 5K mileage intervals to maintain his Toyota warranty coverage, but I agree with you otherwise.
it should not be enough