Oil change/fiascos

wtd44

Many scenarios work for OCI and oil brand choices. I wonder why some motor vehicle enthusiasts agonize over the moderate effort and expense that frequent maintenance involves. :confuse:

Mr_Shiftright

I just let the dealer put in whatever they use. It's under warranty for the next five---count 'em folks---five years. If it blows up, it's their problem because I have all the receipts with their name on the top.

wtd44

In my area, CSK/Murray has a revised Internet site for their weekly sale prices. Those oil coupons are now so easy to print, clip, and use! Such pricing really supports the short OCI habit... :P

fredvig

My 2006 Hyundai Elantra was due for it's 7500 mi oil change smack dab in the middle of a 950 mile drive from GA to CT. I'm now at 8000 miles. Yes, I should have taken care of it before the big drive, but things were hectic and it slipped my mind. Am I going to have a problem with the warranty if I'm 500 miles late on the servicing? How strict are they with this kind of stuff?

I would imagine that if I had some big repair they might use this to avoid covering it . . .

Thanks,
FV

tchbrian

I have been changing my oil and oil filter every 3,000 miles, and have always used OEM filter. A friend of mine recently told me about another filter that had a high filtering efficiency and capacity. He claimed it could filter out particles smaller than 20 microns (typical filters only filter out particles greater than 20-30 microns), and suggested that I could replace my oil and filter every 10,000 miles. I am thinking of giving it a try. Would you think it is worth trying?

shipo

Lacking any other supporting information, it sounds like a scam to me.

If you really want to go to a 10,000 mile OCI, simply keep using your OEM filters and use a good synthetic oil in the proper weight class. Once at 10,000 miles I then suggest that you have the oil analyzed as I suspect that it will show that the oil is still in good shape with plenty of reserves. You may then decide to go even higher on your OCI schedule. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

jipster

But, going 10,000 miles between oil changes will void his warranty... even with synthetic.

210delray

Not really a problem; this might come into play only if there's an issue directly related to engine lubrication, which is unlikely.

shipo

He made no reference to his warranty, the implication here being that he is already beyond the warranty period.

Best Regards,
Shipo

tchbrian

The warranty period is already over. I wouldn't feel comfortable trying 10,000 miles with OEM filter. I just don't think that the filter is designed for such a long interval. The filter my friend recommended is relatively new in the market and not very well-known. But it is a premium filter, and the manufacturer claims that the oil analysis after 10,000 miles shows very clean oil, and much cleaner oil than other major premium filters do. Do you think I should give the new filter a try?

wtd44

So... What brand is it? Where does one buy it?

210delray

That's what I was wondering. It's okay to name names here!

BTW, I'd never rely on the manufacturer's claims only.

But it's generally accepted that the 3000-mile, 3-month oil change is now overkill (except for the usual caveats, like driving on dusty roads, the hot desert, towing, congested city traffic in high temps, etc.)

tchbrian

It is Skay Premium, available in a local auto store near where I live. I have never heard of it before, and don't think most of you have either. So would you try a new filter like that?

altair4

Googled and Yahoo'd "skay oil filter", and "skay premium" and I got nothing. I wouldn't touch this with a ten foot pole, given that there are well known alternative choices available. YMMV

bill125

My wrx sti was had an under car accident and afterwards all the oil came out. So now theres no oil in the engine. please give me an idea on how much it will cost to repair this and is it worth it to keep the car.

kiawah

Based on the limited info you provided, it would be impossible to give you an estimate. You'll need to get it up on a lift (or minimally on blocks), and have someone technically knowledgeable get under to see what was damaged.

It could be something relatively simple, or it could be a major problem like an engine replacement if you ran the engine dry after oil indicator came on. You could have just cracked the oil pan or a fitting, causing a leak......or you could have smashed the whole bottom of the engine damaging the lower part of the engine.

How does one have, and what do you mean by an "under car accident" ? Ran over a speed bump too fast, and bottomed out the car?

wtd44

I know it is not "intuitive," but the truth is that Walmart house brand filters are an excellent choice for most automotive applications. The price is very low, as well. They are made by Champion, a very reputable manufacturer.

mel_in_indy

Dodge Dealer sold me Chrysler Oil Change Coupons as part of my new vehicle purchase deal. After two years of oil changes at the Dodge Dealer, I found they have been using the wrong oil for my vehicle all along. It turns out Chrysler only reimburses the Dealer $15 when customers use the coupons, which doesn't even cover the Dealers labor costs, so the Dealer loses on the deal. In order to minimize his loses, the Dealer uses Bulk 10W30 oil instead of the more expensive 5W20 called out in the owners manual. This was confirmed by the Service Managers at two Dodge Dealers. When I contacted Dodge Corporate about this, they stated the use of the wrong oil was a Dealer issue and Dodge only recommends what is in the owner’s manual.
Gee – I guess when the salesman talked me into buying the oil change coupons so I would get the owners manual’s recommended service, he was full of ………….

shipo

The good news here (sort of) is that no real harm has most likely come to your engine. Were I in your shoes, I'd take a sample of the bulk dealer oil and send it out for a Used Oil Analysis (UOA). The results will show high iron if the cylinder walls are damaged and/or high tin and other soft metals if the engine bearings are having a difficult time of it (the report will let you know if any of the numbers are out of line and what is the most likely cause of the bad numbers).

As for future oil changes, buy your own oil, take it to a good independent shop and have them put it in. That or go to a Mobil station that uses Mobil 1 and use either 5W-20 or better yet, 0W-20 oil.

If you do get the UOA, please share with us what you discover.

Best Regards,
Shipo

oldfarmer50

I've heard of people getting this done from time to time.

Could you explain a little further what the reasons would be for doing this (other than suspecting that you were given bad oil)?

Where would you go to have this done and what would be the approximate cost?

shipo

UOAs are a fairly inexpensive health check for your engine. When you send your oil sample off, they run it through a number of tests to break it down to its constituent components and elements. In that way they can tell how much aluminum, copper, iron, lead, tin, sodium, sulfur, magnesium and such are in your oil. High Chrome might mean bad valve stems or crank journals. High Iron might mean a cylinder wall or two are being scored. High lead might mean your bearings are going bad. High Copper could indicate a problem with one or more valve guides. High sodium might mean that you have a coolant leak that is polluting your oil (bad for bearings if enough coolant is getting in). High amounts of fuel dilution might mean a bad fuel injector.

Other things that come out of UOAs are indicators of how well your current oil is doing its assigned task and how much longer it can do its job before an oil change is required. Case in point, a UOA last year showed trace amounts of coolant in one of our cars. That was kind of a "Heads-Up" for me to keep an eye on things. All of the sudden this winter the coolant usage started becoming noticeable. Fortunately when I first read the UOA I switched to Propylene Glycol coolant which isn't anywhere near as toxic to the engine bearings as is Ethylene Glycol based coolants. That said, now that the leak has gotten worse, I'm assuming that it is a head gasket (the engine has 140,000 miles on it after all), so probably the second weekend in June I'll be diving in and replacing both head gaskets (and drinking a few beers along the way).

As for how to get it done and the cost, I usually pay $30 for the actual UOA and occasionally I pop for the extra $10 TBN (Total Base Number, a measurement that indicates how much life your oil has left in it) analysis. I've used Blackstone Labs and have been very pleased with their service. There are others out there, and a quick check will easily find them. ;-)

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Best Regards,
Shipo

kiawah

Thanks....I'm going to try them on the oil from one of my older vehicles. Just recently changed the oil, so I'll wait a couple thousand miles. Nothing wrong with the vehicle and running extremely well, but would be nice to confirm the engine performance.

Thanks again!

wtd44

At 140,000 miles? Is the car a rare collectors item? :P

shipo

"At 140,000 miles? Is the car a rare collectors item?" :P

Heck no, it's a ubiquitous dark green 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan. That said, for the last two years and 60,000 miles it's been my sole transportation to and from work.

There are a couple of things in the works that may change that in the next few weeks, and even if they do, I still need to keep it running well so that either my son (who'll be driving in a couple of years) can use it when the time comes, or so that I can sell it this summer with a clear concious.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jipster

Looks to me that to have the results analyzed (i.e Dyson analysis) is $60. They also analyze transmission fluid. Still a pretty good value. I was thinking around 80 bucks.

shipo

Hmmm, I'm not convinced that the extra charge for the Dyson analysis is worth the money, that is, unless certain numbers are out of line with established norms (which will require at least one UOA to find out). Said another way, save your money, pay for the standard and TBN tests, and then if the results show something out of line, pop for the Dyson option.

Best Regards,
Shipo

wtd44

Uh Oh! You may be in BIG trouble. I've been there and done that with two daughters. They informed me that vans are not cool wheels in their generation... I didn't stand a chance.

shipo

Of course my response is, "You're certainly welcome to walk or ride your bike." ;-)

That said, it looks fairly certain that we're moving to Hong Kong in six weeks or so. The first six months are on a trial basis for both us and the company, and if the arrangement proves satisfactory to everyone concerned, then I'll be leaving Mrs. Shipo and the kiddos in HK come January, flying back here, emptying out the house and either putting it up for rent or sale (depending upon the market). That also means that I'll be peddeling both vans and freeing my son from the threat of having to drive one. ;-)

Assuming the above happens, then while I'm back here in January, I may also be buying a car to have shipped over to HK (current leading candidates are Mini Cooper, Honda Civic, Honda Fit, Toyota Yaris). I've been comparing prices there versus here, and it actually seems cost beneficial to buy one here, ship it over and then sell it there when we're done with the three year stint.

Best Regards,
Shipo

wtd44

Good luck on the new adventure. The vehicle cost thing reminds me of my tour of duty on Kodiak Island in the mid 1970's. We found that bringing your own was the only real choice, and if you sold it before leaving, you made out quite well.

shipo

Yeah, I'm coming to that conclusion, especially if the company picks up the tab for the shipping of the car to HK.

What's interesting is that a Civic EX here in the states has cloth interior, a 5-Speed (although an automatic can be opted for :P ), and manual HVAC controls. A Civic in HK has turn indicators on the outside mirrors, alloy wheels, leather and automatic transmission standard, and the pricier version also includes Automatic Climate Control. If I was to take a 5-Speed U.S. Spec Civic to HK, it would certainly be a bit of an odd-ball over there. Can't decide if that would be a good thing or not. ;-)

The good news is that we won't have to make the decision until next January when the six-month trial is over. By then, I should have had the time to talk to some of the outfits that specialize in Ex-Pat cars over there.

Best Regards,
Shipo

altair4

So there is no barrier to importing a car yourself to HK, as there is here in the US?

shipo

Not from what I've read, some paperwork, fees and probably an inspection or something, but no real barriers.

Best Regards,
Shipo

sigp226

You may not really need (or want) a car in HK. Steeling wheel is on the right hand side, gasoline cost about $2.00 for a LITER, yes, LITER (tax on gas is about 200%). Oil change costs $50 and you should change it every 2 months because the driving condition is typical EXTREME stop and go as defined in you manual. Parking meters are occupied 99% of the time and you need to feed it until 12:00 am, sure you could park in parking structure but it costs $2.50 per hour. For engine larger than 2.0 (or 2.5), the annual registration is $700. Forget about going to the beach with your car unless you go on weekdays. Expect to pay tolls if you need to go through the tunnels, tolls start at $4.00 to $8.00 to cross the habor. You will spend 90% of your driving time in traffic, the only time you could cruise is driving in New Territories or to the airport. The lanes on highway are very narrow and there is no margin of safety. The house you buy or rent will not include parking space, and that is about $250/month at the minimum. Be very careful if you are sharing the route with mini-vans because they practice grand prix in the city, especially at night. The above prices are quoted in US dollars. I enjoy driving but it is a different experience there. I am sure you get paid very well over there but please don't ignore the enviornment. The air is extremely polluted, Los Angeles is nothing in comparasion. HK parents send their kids overseas for education so if you have kids, that will be your call. Good luck.

shipo

Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it. ;-)

If I decide to get a car, and I must emphasize IF I decide, I have a few advantages here. I've driven in England and New Zealand in RHD cars, sticks even, so been there, done that, got the Tee-Shirt. :P As for a normal parking space, the good news here is that the company will pay for that, so we're good to go there too. I also do most of my own maintenance, and I always use Synthetic Oil, so the whole two month thing on oil changes will be more like six months to a year, and relatively inexpensive when I do it.

With the above in mind, the discussion of getting a car is still very much a mental exercise as there is a very good likeliehood that I won't need one at all, hence the fact that I'm not even going to bother with making the decision for at least six months.

Best Regards,
Shipo

isellhondas

Actually, using 10-30 instead of 5-20 probably wouldn't affect the life of that engine by any amount measurable.

One of the main reasons they reccommend a lighter weight oil is because there may be a small increase in fuel economy.

bremertong

Just bought A new 2006 car. New in that I am the first owner and the manufacturer confirms this. Odometer at delivery was 149 miles. The car has an oil minder and it showed 88% of oil life remaining at time of delivery to me.
The car was completed in late 2005 and has been unsold until I bought it this month. Manufacturer says to change oil per the oil minder or at least once a year. My dilemma is that I am unable to determine when the oil was put in or if it was changed at least once. Assume I should get an oil
change unless the dealership can document that the oil was changed at least once since it was off the production line in late 2005. Any input and or advice appreciated.

shipo

I wouldn't even bother messing around with the dealership, I'd change that oil. Period, full stop, the end.

If you wind up finding out later that the dealership changed the oil, no harm done, if they didn't then you're ahead of the game. Also, remember that many dealerships (most?) simply buy bulk oil (Quaker State 10W-30 or whatever), oil that may or may not be optimal for your car. If you want your oil changes done correctly, do them yourself or, at the very least, buy your own oil and filter and take the car to the dealership (or a garage you trust) and watch them use the parts you supplied.

Best Regards,
Shipo

bremertong

Thanks very much for your reply. A little late to pick up my own supplies, my appointment is in the morning to do some touch up body work as well as the oil issue. Your approach sounds like very good advice and based on what I find out will follow it.
I have never changed my own oil but with all the stuff that happens I should strongly consider it. Will post a follow up after my appointment.

bremertong

IN TO CHAOS, OUT ALIVE! When I went in to the dealership today the service manager said it was unnecessary to change the oil and if they did it would be the one free oil change that they promised at the time I purchased the car. There were a few other issues to resolve and while speaking with the general manager of the dealership I mentioned the oil change issue where upon he called the service department and asked them to change the oil and leave my free oil change on the books for use at a later date. I saw the car up on the lift so I assume they actually did change the oil. The oil monitor was at 100% on leaving the dealership so circumstantial evidence would indicate the oil was changed. It's a pity that an old proverb I learned long ago
applies very much to the car business, "To trust is good, not to trust is better". I will probably have the oil changed again at about 3000 miles or when the oil monitor hits about 40% oil life remaining.

shipo

Does Cadillac recommend/require synthetic oil to be used in their engines? If they do then most likely you're going to get at least five to six thousand miles before the OLM hits the forty percent remaining number. Even if your OLM is calibrated for conventional oil my bet is that you'll get well beyond 3,000 miles before you're oil is sixty percent gone.

Best Regards,
Shipo

imidazol97

Are the oil life interval lights/gauges calibrated differently for cars wtih synthetic recommendations than in conventional oil calibrations? I have a 3800 V6 that is up to 6000 miles and 40% indicated left on oil life. It's been in for 6 months so I'm changing the conventional oil out.

shipo

"Are the oil life interval lights/gauges calibrated differently for cars wtih synthetic recommendations than in conventional oil calibrations?"

While I don't know for a fact, I believe that's the case. I've driven three cars with OLMs, two specified synthetic oil from the factory, one that didn't. The two synthetic cars were operating toward a nominal 15,000 mile oil change, the one that came with conventional oil in the crank case operated on a nominal 6,000 mile OCI. Conclusive? Nope. Interesting? I think so. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

imidazol97

I know that the 04 version of the 3800 in a leSabre had an insert in the brochure saying it could go up to 10000 miles between oil changes (I don't recall a time mentioned).

Mine is an 03 and seems to run cleaner than my 98 motor did at the same age, i.e., oil discolors less quickly. That, as you say, may mean nothing.

bremertong

The car in question is a 2006 DTS. As I understand it if you put synthetic oil in the engine, the oil life minder will just go down much more slowly. I think more than half of Cadillac owners use conventential oil. To my knowledge Cadillac does not strongly suggest either. Guess I should update my profile for the 2004 I just traded for the 2006 DTS. Am also very appreciative for the responses I have received here on this issue. The average car owner doesn't give these issues much thought and it is good to have a site like this where one can ask a question and get a thoughtful answer.

shipo

"As I understand it if you put synthetic oil in the engine, the oil life minder will just go down much more slowly."

Hmmm, to the best of my knowledge, no OLM (yet) is capable of actual on the fly oil analysis. They get around this by keeping track of other metrics like fuel consumption, engine temperatures, RPMs, load, cold starts, and probably a few other measurement points. As such, the OLM must be predisposed to one oil type over another, and can only give the proper readings for that type. So, if your OLM is calibrated for conventional oil, using synthetic will not make it go down slower.

Assuming the above is true, is that a reason NOT to use synthetic? Nope, not in my book. For the warranty period of your new car I'd absolutely adhere to the recommendations of the OLM regarding when to change your oil AND at the same time, I'd use synthetic oil. If you get beyond the warranty period, then you may want to consider adding 50% to your oil change interval (assuming synthetic of course), and maybe even 100% more miles if you have your oil analyzed and said analysis indicates the oil is still good to go.

Best Regards,
Shipo

bremertong

Your analysis makes good sense. Given the fact that synthetic oil is good longer than conventential oil I had the idea that the oil minding systems analysis would drop at a slower pace since synthetic oil as I understand it deteriorates at a slower rate than conventential oil. The factors you referred to may in fact more relevant to the issue, I am not knowledgeable on this but appreciate your posts in that the information you have provided is helping me get a better overview and understanding of the factors involved in oil life.

shipo

Let me know if there's anything else I can do to help. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

wtd44

I am not FACTUALLY aware of the existence of any oil change interval timing device that is anything more than a counter that will tell you when the next "X" thousand miles has passed from when you "zeroed" the timer circuit. The ones I have seen (GM, Ford, Chrysler) can be altered to different spans of miles. I have "heard tell" of optical readers that work much like a scientific colorimeter or tintometer, but I would not put money on the truth of this instrumentation. Just what is out there?

shipo

The OLMs on all BMWs since the 1999 model year are anything but counters. Instead they measure fuel consumption since last oil change. The reasoning is, "The more fuel used, the harsher the environment." Makes sense. So lots of cold-start/short-trips, fuel consumption goes up. Do lots of high speed 120 mph+ driving, fuel consumption goes up. Do lots of stop and go, fuel consumption goes up.

Sort of in validation of the above statements, when I picked up my 530i in Germany I drove it around Europe for a couple of weeks, often spending hours on end at speeds well north of 100 mph. The OLM on that car called for the first oil change at about the 13,000 mile mark. For the next several months following the first oil change, I found myself commuting between our home in southern New Hampshire and clients in Long Island and the Philadelphia area. As I made it a point to commute during the wee hours of the morning, I was able to set the CC at a nice leisurely seventy something, resulting in MPG readings in excess of 30. The OLM called for the next oil change at 19,000 miles!

Here's a link that shows how the BMW OLMs work:

http://www.savagebmw.com/Service/content_service_IntervalsLED.htm

Best Regards,
Shipo

bremertong

While only indirectly related to oil I was a little surprised that my new Deville DTS gets about 10% lower fuel economy than my 2004 Deville. Would this have anything to do with oil? The tires on the 2006 are one inch wider than that of the 2004
Deville, weight is less than 50 pounds more on the 2006 and the horsepower, is the same on both models, the 2006 is rated at 8 pounds less torque than the 2004 Deville. My guess is that the combination of wider tires and more tire tread in the new car could account for this. Are there other factors I should be considering?