Oil change/fiascos

roadburner

My 1995 318ti with @112K looks just about the same under the valve cover. With the exception of two changes with BMW's synthetic, the ti has been run on either M1 0W-40 or 15W-50 at 7.5K to 8K change intervals.
But just imagine how clean it would have looked with 3K dino changes...

blufz1

Looks good. Does it use any oil between changes at 140k. Thanks.

isellhondas

I suspect it would have looked the same.

I'm not that sold on synthetics. Better? Probably, but in the life of a normal car, I don't think there would be enough of a benefit to bother.

shipo

Really? How is it that extended oil change intervals aren't a benefit?

How about the Turbocharged Acura RDX? If there was no benefit to synthetic oil, why would Honda specify it for that engine?

Best Regards,
Shipo

altair4

Well, I have some oil leaks.

The reason I took the valve cover off was to replace the valve cover gasket kit. My spark plug wells were filling with oil and leaking down the rear side of the engine. The last time I had the valves adjusted, the dealer didn't install the gaskets correctly around the plugs. I also have a leak at the lower engine of the engine at the balance shaft seal. I have to have that looked at, although I had it done once probably 70,000 miles ago.

Even so, it only goes down about 1/2 a quart in 5,000 miles. I'm expecting that to decrease with the new gasket kit in. I do keep a close eye on it due to the leak situation.

isellhondas

Like I said, I'm sure synthetics are better and I'm sure there are benefits.

I usually change my oil around the 4500-5000 mark and after 100,000 miles my engines are clean inside too.

I think I would rather do that then stretch out my oil changes. I don't drive that much and I usually don't hang on to my cars more than a few years anyway.

blufz1

Thanks, much.

jipster

I had the oil changed in the Mazda MPV today at the dealership. Upon returning home I noticed on the invoice it stated they had used 5w-30 instead of the required 5w-20. I called the service advisor and he assured me they had used the right oil, and that their computer system was set incorrectly to print out 5w-30 on both grades of oil.
I'm thinking of sueing for a new engine. What do you guys think?

shipo

Two comments:
1) No harm will come to your engine, especially in the few miles that you've driven it.
2) If you are really concerned, have them change it again and watch them pour in the oil.

Best Regards,
Shipo

jipster

Thanks. The service advisor reassured me several times that they put the correct grade of oil in and that it wouldn't harm the engine even if they had put in the 5w-30. But, a lot of times one doesn't know if they are being given a line or not. I don't know how difficult it would be to reset their computers with the correct information, seems it would be a good idea to do so. Other than that it was a very good oil change experience. I was in and out in about 25 minutes... using a $19.99 coupon they had mailed to me.
No pressure at all to upsell me anything, they didn't even ask... which was surprising. Suggested services recommended on full circle inspection print-out were: the fuel system (which I heard was useless) and an air filter, which I'll need to look at as it was replaced 1 1/2 years ago on a two year schedule.

shipo

"I don't know how difficult it would be to reset their computers with the correct information, seems it would be a good idea to do so."

It'd probably take all of ten seconds. ;-)

Personally I believe that they are buying 5W-30 in bulk and that is what they use in all of their cars, regardless of what the Owner's Manual states. This by the way is a fairly common short coming of dealership oil changes, in fact, there have been a number of class action suits against the dealership infrastructure over this very issue (although usually it was over using conventional oil when the manufacturer specified synthetic for their engines).

BTW, skip the fuel system service, totally unnecessary.

Best Regards,
Shipo

roadburner

I'm pretty sure Mazda calls for 5W-30 in Europe; 5W-20 is a CAFE strategy. Either way, it's not going to hurt your engine.

jipster

skip the fuel system service

I took my other car, a Buick regal, to Valvoline Instant Oil Change the same day I had the oil in my Mazda changed. The service tech asked if I ever had the fuel system serviced. I said I put in some Chevron Techron fuel additive about 6 months ago. He said that when they service the fuel system they guarantee that I will be able to notice an improvement in performance or my money back. Sounded like a bunch of b.s. to me. He just said, "something to think about" and let it go.

My Mazda dealer on last oil change recommended throttle body being cleaned. Is that necessary?

With them buying 5w-30 in bulk, I guess that would be to save money. This dealership just opened a couple years ago, and most of their maintence services are a lot less expensive than the one other Mazda dealership in our area. Whenever I've gone in they don't seem to have much business going on in either sales or service.

roadburner: What is CAFE strategy?

0patience

My Mazda dealer on last oil change recommended throttle body being cleaned. Is that necessary?

There is a big difference between the Fuel injection service that these places do and cleaning the throttle body.
Cleaning the throttle body is something that needs to be done occaisionally. But, you can do that yourself.
Stop by your GM Dealer and pickup a can of GM Top Engine Cleaner spray. It is spendy, about $15 a can.
Follow the directions to the letter and you will be good to go.

Also, if you are worried about cleaning the injectors, for the price these quick change places charge you, you can buy the set up to do it yourself. Like this one.

jlflemmons

Hyundai specifically states that throttle body cleaning SHOULD NOT be performed. Not sure why not, but if a Hyundai dealer tries to sell it, I just show them the owners manual.

0patience

Most manufacturer's don't recommend that the throttle bodies be cleaned, because there is a protective coating that can be damaged. With proper care and not using anything that can damage the coating, the throttle bodies can be cleaned without any adverse problems.

From Hyundai's own factory service information for a 2005 Sante Fe

THROTTLE BODY CLEANING
NOTE: Disconnect the in take air hose from the throttle body and check the throttle valve surface for dirt. Spray cleaning solvent on the face valve to remove dirt.

Warm up the engine, then stop it.
Remove the intake air hose from the throttle body.
Plug the bypass passage inlet of the throttle body.
Spray cleaning solvent into the valve through the throttle body intake port and let it soak for about 5 minutes . After 5 minutes open the valve and wipe it clean with a soft rag. CAUTION : Keep the throttle valve closed while spraying to avoid charging the intake path with solvent.
Start the engine, race it several times and allow the engine to run near idle for 1 minute .
Repeat Steps 4 and 5.
Unplug the bypass passage inlet.
Attach the intake air hose.
Disconnect the battery ground cable for more than 10 seconds .

From Hyundai's own factory service information for the 2005 Sonata
THROTTLE BODY CLEANING

NOTE: Disconnect the intake air hose from the throttle body and check the throttle valve surface for carbon deposits. Spray cleaning solvent on the valve to remove carbon deposits.
Warm up the engine, then stop it.
Remove the intake air hose from the throttle body.
Plug the bypass passage inlet of the throttle body. NOTE: Make sure the solvent does not enter the by-pass passage.
Spray cleaning solvent onto the valve through the throttle body intake port and let it soak for about 5 minutes .
Start the engine, race it several times and allow the engine to idle for 1 minute .
Repeat Steps 4 and 5.
Unplug the bypass passage inlet.
Attach the intake air hose.
Disconnect the battery ground cable for more than 10 seconds .
Adjust the SAS (Speed Adjusting Screw).

roadburner

roadburner: What is CAFE strategy?

CAFE: Corporate Average Fuel Economy Using a lower viscosity(thinner) oil can often improve fuel economy by a few tenths of a MPG.

jlflemmons

Perhaps they have changed their procedures and added a specific cleaning solvent. On both my '02 and '05 Elantra 2.0L 4cyl, the owners manual states that the throttle body does not require cleaning and that it should not be performed.

0patience

I always like how some manufacturers say that something doesn't require cleaning, then provide the info to their techs on how to do it.

I like Hyundai vehicles, but saying the throttle body doesn't need cleaning is like saying the timing belt never needs replaced.

isellhondas

In all of the MANY cars I have owned, I have never once cleaned a throttle body and I have never used a fuel additive.

And I have never once had a problem.

shipo

Me too. That said, I once owned a very old car that burned a lot of oil and I succumbed to the advertising that suggested that OilSTPHoneySlick97MoonBrew would cure my oil burning problem. I have to admit that I actually bought a can of that glop and put it in my engine. Once.

Beyond that, I've never cleaned a throttle body, and never used a fuel additive, oil additive, or Super Prest-a-Gonzo highly refined Snake Oil either. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

jlflemmons

The only reasons I have seen to clean a throttle body is if another condition of the engine had been causing backfiring, and one where some idiot left the air filter out of the housing and all kinds of bugs and garbage got into the intake.

My Elantra has 52K on it, and the throttle body is clean as a whistle.

okko1

i took my little cobalt ss/sc to the dealer to day to get an oil change. i had a coupon for $15.00 off any service. to make along story short the charged me $9.39 a quart for the iol and $7.75 for the filter giving me a grand total before discount of $74.09 i bet i change it myself from now on. and i can't wait to get my service sat. questionaire.

chuckhoy

You paid that!? :surprise: I would have demanded to see a manager and if they would not play ball I would ask to speak to corporate. $74.09 for an oil change is far beyond ridiculous.

Did they do any other work? Replace air filters? Do an "inspection"?

shipo

"$74.09 for an oil change is far beyond ridiculous."

Not necessarily. While I'm not familiar with the care and feeding of the supercharged engine that Chevy is using in the Cobalt, it might well could be that it requires Synthetic oil. If that's the case, then anything much under a hundred dollars is a fair deal.

Best Regards,
Shipo

okko1

yes it was synthetic oil. at napa the oil is $5.90 a quart they charged me $9.39 a quart. and i have ran motors with both types of oil and realy have had no performance difference

altair4

Have you read your owner's manual regarding oil requirements for your engine? Pay attention to the oil change interval, too.

The "performance difference" in many forced induction engines is not that syntheitc oil will make it run "smoother" or "faster", but that they are able to better endure the added stress/heat of a blown engine. I'm driving a turbocharged VW, and it's synthetic every 5,000 miles (or less) meeting VW's stringent 503.1 standard.

shipo

Like altair4 said, synthetic oil won't make one iota of difference in how your engine runs (in spite of many-many testamonials claiming "I just switched to synthetic oil and I can't believe how smooth my engine is running. As an added benefit, my fuel economy has gone up by 20 mpg too!"), what it will do is endure the added heat and stress of your blown, high specific output small displacement engine, conditions that would cause conventional oil to turn into sludge.

Best Regards,
Shipo

okko1

thanks guys

jlflemmons

Co-worker just had the oil changed in his Porsche 911 GT3.

$250.00 :surprise:

0patience

I've seen some nasty looking throttle bodies.
A lot of variables will cause build up in the throttle body. Among the top of the list that I have seen is varnish build up, oil build up from certain reusable air cleaners and contamination from leaks on the air intake (air filter broken or cracked intake tube).

kiawah

oil build up from certain reusable air cleaners

That is phrased so politically correct............

blufz1

My honda dealer charges me $10 for the change. I provide the Mobil 1 oil and filter.

0patience

Wouldn't want anyone saying I was biased.

Mr_Shiftright

no 1 kn say that about u :P

flaaveo

If he can afford THAT car...he can afford THAT oil change!. Somehow I doubt he would even be able to crawl under it to change the oil. And for that car,...if he can afford it,..he is not 21yo and able to crawl under it and change the oil,I bet:)! That is kind of like someone going into a Rolls Royce dealer and asking what kind of mileage the car gets. As they say..."If you have to ask that question...you cant afford this car". :shades: Sweet car! Man I'd like to be his best friend...maybe get to drive that machine!!

roadburner

If that's the case, then anything much under a hundred dollars is a fair deal.

I just paid my Mazda dealer $42 for the 5000 mile service(which includes an oil change). I provided six quarts of Mobil 1 5W-30 so the total cost was around $78, which I thought was a pretty good deal. I'm going to stick with a 5000 mile OCI until my UOAs indicate otherwise; I'm concerned about the oil deterioration issues that owners of other direct injection engines are encountering.

chetj

actually WM has always done a ok job on my oil changes but i have heard of them not tightening the oil nut enough and oil leaked and they had to replace the engine...everybody really should check their oil after every oil change themselves to make sure...immediately after and when you get home

imidazol97

I'd never leave on a long drive without checking after 5-10 minutes of driving for a drip or leak. I'd recommend everyone check their oil regularly and look under the car for drips. I do that and I change my own oil every time.

shipo

Hehe, I cheat. I NEVER pull my drain plugs out, so I NEVER have to worry about whether they're leaking. I do of course check the filter to make sure all is well there, but filters are usually an either/or situation in that they are either bone dry or gushing buckets (usually from a gasket left behind from the previous filter).

Best Regards,
Shipo

imidazol97

I had the double gasket one time. I dropped the filter into the drain pan of oil and didn't check to be sure the gasket was on the old filter. It was on the flange. I pulled the car out of the garage and saw the oil on the pavement.

Does a suction device draw up as much of the sludgy sediment on the bottom of the oil pan as opening the drain plug and letting it drain for an hour does? Does it leave a quantity behind? Ever tried suctioning and then putting a drain pan under it to see how much comes out?

shipo

I habitually check for a stray gasket, and last year, for the first time in literally hundreds of oil changes (maybe thousands?), I glanced up at the filter mount and then went to grab the filter... "What the...?" I looked back to the filter mount and sure enough, there was the gasket from the previous filter stuck tight.

I almost had a gusher of my own. :P

Best Regards,
Shipo

rowlandj

Mercedes uses these at the dealer on all their engines and that's where I got the idea for mine. I can only say that I put as much in now as when I used the older method so I have to think it's getting it all out.

With engines and oils being what they are today I suspect that any sediment is a thing of the past. If your using shorter intervals, which this method makes easy, I think you have even less to worry about.

I have been happy with it on different vehicles and all the home lawn and garden equipment too.

Just my two-cents...

JR

imidazol97

I understand your message. I was hoping someone had checked to see if any and how much was left behind and what it was like.

shipo

If you're asking about how much oil the extractors get versus a conventional draining of the oil via the pan plug, I too was wondering about that when I first got the Pela. After draining both of our vans and my 530i the first time, I pulled the plug and got maybe a thimble full of oil, certainly not enough to make much of a difference. I haven't pulled an oil pan plug since. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

imidazol97

Thanks. That's what I've wondered about. My nephew uses a pump for his VW diesel. I wonder whether he's leaving a small % of residue oil. Probably not meaningful in volume!

traumer

I'm thinking of using a permanent quick change oil plug like Fumoto Valve to make less of a mess. Do any of you use it? Is it ok for me to use or should I just use the regular oil plug.

rowlandj

Depending on the vehicle I use a Pela Oil Extractor like the one used on marine engines. Even less of a mess and great if you have easy top access to the filter.

Have not been under my car for an oil change in some time and often change between intervals because it's just so easy.

flaaveo

I have been looking for one of these to fit this cars oil drain hole. Where did you find it? Is it one with a cable you attach to the car on the top of the engine bay,so that you don't even have to get under the car to open the valve? Or is it the type you have to crawl under and open the valve? Is it made of brass? If so, it should be ok.

What does it cost? I would trust it, I was going to get one for several of my trucks that I have had, but just didn't do it. BUT I hear they are very reliable,as long as they are brass and have a gasket to make a VERY tight fit. Please tell me where you found it and how much,if you don't mind.

shipo

I use a Pela as well, the hose fits down through the dipstick tube and into the oil pan.

Best Regards,
Shipo