2005-2007 Toyota Avalon

gws

Higher elevations do not require higher octane. In fact, the reverse is true - lower octanes work better at higher elevations than they do closer to sea level. The reduced air pressure at height assists the vaporisation of the fuel. In (some) mountain states, the regular grade may be 85 rather than 87, for this reason.

limiteddriver

Keep in mind the article says the rotten egg smell was from cars in the early nineties using the wrong gas. IMHO very few cars do that now. I'm not sure of his logic that a higher octane puts more unburned fuel in the exhaust on a modern car.

limiteddriver

All the talk about mileage is interesting, but few tell their average MPH. I think I will go out and take a 50 mile trip driving at some speed below 35 MPH and report a 45+ MPG number and make everyone feel bad.

gws

More on the subject of smell caused from improper fuel use.....

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/troubleshooting/a/aa120702a.htm

gws

"Rotten-egg smell indicates plugged catalytic converter or very rich air-fuel mixture (can cause poor gas mileage)."

http://www.ehow.com/how_112990_diagnose-car-smells.html

delan

I've seen various tests results on TV, just recently on 20/20, regarding different opinions on high grade vs low grade gas. The bottom line is it's all the same. It will NOT affect the cars gas mileage or the way it runs. The higher grade gasolines are normally use for high reving gas engines, i.e., Corvette, Ferrari etc. The Limited is not a high reving car. If the owers manual suggests 87 octane it's best to use it. Any higher grade is a waste of money. I know some will say that the car's compter shows better gas mileage when a higher octane is used. But than again, just how accurate is that system?

Delan

rwb2

I mostly agree with what you're saying although the owner's manual suggests a higher octane. 87 is considered the minimun. I take everything with a grain of salt on "news magazine" TV shows.

abh2

I bought my Avalon Limited in March and now have 4,000 miles of driving experience. My major complaint is "too-soft" ride which causes poor handling at high speeds on winding/curvy roads. Has anyone tried to correct this by installing heavy duty shocks, stiffer sway bar, etc?

jicka

Again, check your tire pressure. Read the manual; it suggests various pressures for different maximum speed capabilities.

gbinplano

Gasoline's primary energy comes from the hydrocarbon heptane. Pure heptane ignites too rapidly in engines by itself, so a hydrocarbon with lower volatility, octane, is blended with heptane in varying amounts to slow the rate of fuel ignition to overcome preignition commonly known as knock. The higher the octane rating, the slower the fuel ignites. Other additives are included for managing emissions and to adjust for changes in seasonal temperatures. Modern gasoline powered automobiles have compression ratios in the 8-11:1 range. Lower compression ratios provide lower power output, lower fuel economy and require lower octane ratings to prevent knock. Likewise, higher compression engines provide greater power output, typically better fuel economy but require more octane to prevent knock. Performance enhancement equipment such as turbochargers and superchargers dynamically increase effective compression providing increasing power output from the engine. Engine management systems provide mechanical or electronic control over ignition timing and fuel/air mixture to make most efficient use of fuel and to prevent knock. Engine management systems retard performance when less than optimal octane is used. Most automobile manufacturers recommend the lowest octane that their engine management systems can safely manage as the minimum octane requirement to prevent serious engine damage. Higher octanes will result in better power and fuel economy up to the point where the engine management system no longer needs to retard performance. This is the point of optimal octane content. This is also the point where manufacturers measure maximum horsepower and fuel economy.

The 2005 Avalon has a 10.8:1 compression ratio. It is rated at 280hp. As many have already done, it is wise to test various octane ratings, and perhaps brands, of gasoline to find what works best for one's particular driving conditions and needs. In general, 91 octane will provide better fuel economy and power than 87. However, 93 may not be better than 91. Load, accessories, altitute, attitude, temperature, temperment, terrain, traffic, humidity and stupidity will also affect fuel economy.

The following link provides scientific analysis of gasoline and its characteristics. It is lengthy, but informative. Gasoline FAQs

Greg

jicka

http://www.michelinman.com/assets/pdfs/doc_energymxv4s8.pdf

This URL notes the addtional pressure required for various maximum speeds. Also if you can believe Michelin, the "s8" version of the MX4 series is superior in every aspect to the "Plus" that was mounted on my 2002 XLS,

imidazol97

>The following link provides scientific analysis of gasoline and its characteristics. It is lengthy, but informative. Gasoline FAQs

Great link. Thanks. It goes on to comment about oxygenated fuels used in some areas. I also don't trust ethanol fuels to work "right" either. When comparing cars, octane needs, and fuels here, the area of country and what's been done to "modify" fuels may be affecting different people's experiences with their motors.

My _opinion_ after lots of years (and chemistry background) is if the engine is marginal for 87, try 89. Somewhere in a test the Plus grade was found to be more consistent in quality when samples were taken by some group. Regular may vary more from brand to brand and area to area, but it sounded like 89 was pretty consistent.

Too motors peak in octane needs due to improved sealing as they wear in around 5000, and then the requirement drops slowly through the life of the motor. So it might be nice to use a higher grade through the early miles of your motor, if it might require it based on the manual.

avalonfan

I live in the Edmonds Washington area and drive a Limited. I've got almost 5000 miles on the car. I always drive with the air/heat set on Auto, and use 89 fuel.

I have a great program on my Treo 600 smart phone called "AutoMobile" which does a great job of tracking cost and fuel usage, among other things.

According to this program, I'm driving 1454 miles per month with an average fuel economy of 21.7. This would be 50% city driving, 35% secondary highway miles and the balance freeway on weekends and trips.. What little freeway driving I do has averaged just over 30.00 mpg.

My most recent fill up covered a total of 355 miles driven with an average mpg of 24.2.

abh2

Thanks Mel.

I will pursue your suggestion on tighter sway bars. Also, I have heard that certain types of gas-filled shocks will also make a world of difference in approving the handling.

ABH2

drfu

I understand that the satellite antenna looks like a little black mouse on the trunk. How come it is not more appealing like other fine cars? Even the Honda antenna is the same color as the body color of the car. Even a little nub at the top of the roof like the Acuras have would look better than the black mouse antenna. I am still going to get an Avalon, but this may impact my decision to get the satellite radio especially if I want a blizzard white Avalon.
I also heard that the JBL radio is satellite compatible, and that any store that sells satellite radio equipment can hook it up and install the antenna. If this is true are there other antenna options out there??

zekeman1

Search this discussion on xm antenna and you will see many postings regarding this issue - this "problem" is very solvable.
zekeman1

smith1

So, it sounds like VSC will remain unavailable on the XL and Touring.....correct? This is disappointing.

easyrider300m

Stronger sway bars and bushings may help. Larger wheels and smaller diameter tires may help. And stronger springs and struts would help. Lowering springs by companies such as Intrax or Eibach would help too.

As a member of a 300M club, members there were not afraid to experiment with many different combinations of wheels, tires, and suspension parts. The M even in its base model handles firmer than the Avalon. But some members have given their cars the handling of a sports car with various combinations of the above mods. Of course, you will sacrifice a bit of ride comfort for improved handling.

easyrider300m

with all the talk of the desirablility of hands-free cellphone use when driving, bluetooth should be a safety requirement in all new cars. I sure hope Toyota offers it in it top of the line Avalon for 06.

tonyp77

I have purchased the Limited with ALL options including the white pearl paint. I paid just $500 over invoice for mine!!! I live in the Dallas-Ft. Worth, Texas area....

ange

Comment re H2S smell in exhaust. A good part of this will go away around Sept.05 as all refineries must reduce the sulfur content to a lower value.This should help reduce the exhaust system replacement about to 1/2.

I an't imagine the problems reported re octane and exhaust smells with the latest computerized engines now in use.The computers think in milli seconds and almost produce perfect combustion by controlling air- fuel mixtures. If there is a proplem, the nasty "check engine" notice appears. The oxygen senser usually goes first because it is in the exhaust and sees tough duty.The new cars need special tools and the average driver can't even find the spark plugs, Somehow we have to accept the need for dealer repairs.

ange

I don't agree that all gasolines are the same. The different octanes are made for cars that have different piston compression ratios. High performance cars got that way, partly by,having higher than normal compression ratio, somewhere near 12-1. Typicl cars had ratios of about 8-1. The high octane is needed to prevent engine pinging when you have a high compression engine. We used to remove the engine heads and plane off some metal to boost the compression ratio to get more power. We then controlled the spark to get proper timing by advancing or retarding. If you had a high compression engine and wanted to burn low octane fuel you had to retard the spark, otherwise, the engine would ping almost all of the time.

The Limited has a computer to control the spark under a varity of conditions and for this reason the engine runs fine. Keep in mind as you retard the spark due to low octane gas you loose horsepower. Mileage may or may not change.The Limited also has an antiknock senser to assure it doe not ping.

The gasolines supplied by all refineries is monitered by the goverment inspectors and if of spec gas is found there is a hugh penalty. All refineries want to avoid this at all costs.
A problem that is going to show up sometime in various areas is alcohol laden gasolines.I think Toyota recomends gasoline with less than15% alcohol. High levels of alcohol in gas can vaporize on hot days and build up pressure in the tank. It also reported the alcohol is corrosive to fuel system.

3puttmax

I've just completed my first long highway trip in my 2005 Limited. I covered 2700 miles from LA to Seattle and back, up and down I5 plus some local city driving. Here's what I learned -

1. The speedometer is dead nuts on, exactly correct.

2. The odometer reads 2.7% low, that is, you must multiply the indicated mileage by 1.027 to get the correct mileage. I checked this over a 50 mile stretch of I5 in Oregon, with roadside mileage markers at every mile.

3. The fuel mileage shown on the trip computer is usually very accurate, correlating well with hand calculated mileage using the 2.7% odometer correction.

4. This car has great range. I covered over 450 miles on one tank (premium fuel), with the trip computer showing 6 miles range left. I imagine one could get over 500 miles with enough nerve. The low fuel yellow warning light was on starting at 20 mile range on the trip computer. Mileage for that segment was 30.2 mpg, the fillup took 15.2 gal.

5. My worst highway mileage was just over 27 mpg, my best 31.9. It's hard to get over 30 mpg in California, cruising at around 78 mpg (70 speed limit).

6. The laser assisted cruise control (LACC) works very nicely in light to moderate traffic. It can be very aggressive in both slowing the car, with brakes if necessary, and in accelerating back up to speed. I mostly used the shortest distance setting. Any longer distance would keep me too far back, allowing too many cars to cut in front of me. Sometimes when the LACC is applying brakes, cars behind me would come up too close. Bottom line - LACC is best used in light traffic.

7. The LACC is canceled when it rains above a certain level. A red warning light comes on, but there is no audible warning. This can be irritating - you must revert to normal cruise control without the LACC feature.

8. The rain-sensing wipers seem to work well. Got a pretty good workout in Washington.

9. My Limited seems to be afflicted with the drift or pull to the right problem. Had the alignment adjusted independently of Toyota while in Oregon (Les Schwab), but the problem persists. Guess I'll need to pursue this further - what a drag.

10. The small trunk (relative to my 2000 Avalon) was very noticeable. We carried 2 sets of golf clubs, 2 small suitcases, 1 shoe bag, and numerous small items. It took a lot of reorganizing. It's a pity they shrunk the trunk.

11. Overall, this car has a great combination of high performance engine/transmission and high fuel economy, at least out on the highway.

12. I have XM radio, with the small Terk XM Micro antenna mounted internally just under the front edge of the windshield. I experienced some dropouts in mountainous terrain, when next to large trucks, and especially in Washington when surrounded by very tall evergreen trees. Since the satellite is at a lower elevation in WA than in CA, it can be more difficult to receive the signal. However, the XM was still great to have out on the highway. We almost never listened to our CD's.

Well, that's about it. We're very happy with the new Limited, even if it's not quite perfect.

Max

easyrider300m

That's strange that the speedometer would be accurate, yet the odometer is off a bit.

Great review of the Avalon.
What do you think about the handling of the car on winding roads at speed?

rwb2

Great job. People need to look at your review as I feel you pretty much nailed the LTD. Mine doesn't have the drifting problem. 3 great standards on the LDT you didn't mention, the fan in the seats (never thought I'd care but on 90 degree days they're great), the self dimming mirrors and the smartkey system. I even like the sunshade on hot sunny days. I too am curious about your opinion on the handling on winding roads.

justgreat47

this topic has been discussed before on this forum some weeks back but it bears repeating: on the 3.5 in the avalon the octane rating of the fuel used will determine the output of the engine, that's how it was designed and engineered. it only makes 280hp on the higher grade fuels. some engine management control systems have a "fixed" setting and using a higher grade fuel will not extract more power out of the motor, that is NOT the case with the 3.5 in the avalon. the FMS adjusts the output of the motor based on the fuel used.

as far as the difference in fuel economy numbers most of the differences can be summed up in two words (well three i suppose): a/c and stop lights. the drain on any i/c motor is enormous when the a/c is on and working full-time, especially around town, the fuel economy will drop off as much as 2/3 mpg.
stop lights and back-ups at intersections have a dramatic affect on f/e...at that point you're getting ZERO mpg...you're sitting still for god's sake...not too good for the f/e numbers, to say the least. it really depends on the individual's driving patterns and their "style" of driving. jackg 90seville 97k

drfu

I have spoken to a number of Avalon dealers concerning the satellite options. They all seem to think that Sirius will work with their radios. I think you need the JBL radio option, and it is just a matter of wiring which satellite service that you want (Sirius or XM). However, none of them spoke with enough confidence for me to make a decision. In fact, one suggested that they will just send the new car down the street and have someone else install it.
All I want is Sirius installed without an aftermarket look about it. Is this even possible??

3puttmax

rwb2 -

Yes, the cooled seats are also nice, though my wife turns it off. I seldom think to use the sunshade. I think the handling on windy roads is very good. Mind you, this is no BMW, but for freeway cruising with high speed curves, it feels very comfortable to me.

The I5 freeway has a number of high speed curves in the area between Redding, CA and Ashland, OR. These are posted at 45 - 60 mph, and can comfortably taken at 15 above the posted speed. Which reminds me of another great feature of the Avalon - the transmission. It's so easy to shift from 5th to 4th and back, which I do often in the mountains. In 4th, the car is much more responsive to throttle inputs, so you can both slow down and accelerate more quickly. The mpg figures in my original post include a lot of mountain driving in 4th gear.

Max

fragmire

Regarding #7, I believe the LACC is automatically cancelled when the wipers come on. I think it makes sense as a safety feature since the laser may become inaccurate and that braking distance is also increased in such condition. I would say it's good thinking on Toyota's part

rwb2

Speaking of the auto wipers, one day while washing the inside of the windshield the wipers came on for one pass. Guess I shouldn't be playing with the accessories while cleaning the windshield.

rwb2

I think my wife kind of likes it.

fragmire

If I remember correctly, the wiper sensor uses infrared to detect the amount of moisture on the glass. Guess it can't distinguish between the inside and the outside of the glass surface.

deanie

I too am an 05 XLS owner, but I'm not surprised at it's relatively soft handling because that's how their suspensions were designed, and that's how it drove during the 2-3 test drives I took in one - it shouldn't be a surprise to you. If you "click" on my name "deanie" in blue above and to the right of this post, you'll see my history and that I've made numerous comments about 05 Avalon handling.

Originally I thought I'd one day swap out my XLS shocks/struts for those of the Touring model which has crisper and better high speed handling traits (safer than the current suspension setup), but the too frequent posts regarding alignment problems in Touring models has steered me away (pun intended) from that idea.

I then contacted Tockico, the aftermarket supplier that makes shocks/struts to make the previous generation Avalons handle better. I've not yet heard about or read about a problem with Tockico's products on those Avalons, but Tockico says they're not putting out anything for the 05+ Avalons for at least the next 1 to 1.5 years - the minimum amount of time to pass before 05 Avalons suspension parts even begin to hint at wearing out. Cest la vie.

At least we've got something to which we can look forward. Furthermore, I'm confident Tockico will devise a shock/strut product for the 05+ Avalons that'll better address the ride/handling compromises than found in Tourings, and will satisfy those who love most everything about the Avalon but who also find the current suspension wanting in all current Avalon models.
Regards,
Deanie

easyrider300m

wouldn't you also need stiffer springs if you want to beef up the suspension?

Perhaps a company will come out with stiffer lowering springs for the Av, seeing that car is attracting a younger crowd who tend to prefer firmer handling than the geriatric crowd.

easyrider300m

wouldn't you also need stiffer springs if you want to beef up the suspension?

Perhaps a company will come out with stiffer lowering springs for the Avalon seeing that car is attracting a younger crowd who tend to prefer firmer handling than the geriatric crowd.

deanie

No VSC in XL or Touring for 06 is likely due to one or both of the two following possibilities:
Toyota is being both short-sighted and greedy (intentionally forcing safety-hungry buyers into pricier XLS and Limited models); or one or more decision makers at Toyota are, shall we say, "not that bright" as potential buyers of XL and Touring Avalons who wont pony up $30K+ for VSC equipped XLS and Limited Avalons are being turned away to other makers. Either way it's bad thinking by Toyota as VSC equipped cars from other brands are becoming commonplace in the $20k-$30K price range where a VSC equipped Avalon for under $30K doesn't exist.
Even the Camry can be had with VSC at some trim levels. Not offering VSC on cars over $25k is bad business. "Nice job, Toyota." (to the dimbulbs at Toyota who just don't get it, that was sarcasm. The "Nice job, Toyota", that is).
Regards,
Deanie

deanie

You're absolutely right.
Stiffer springs would also improve handling if they were engineered right, as would thicker/stiffer sway bars. But I'm not focusing too much on that because I'm gonna wait for Tockico to come out with everything for the Avalon. The reason? Buying various suspension parts piecemeal from different makers as they become available might not be a good idea because those products are not going to be tested in conjunction with each other and as such, you might do more harm than good to your suspension should they not function harmoniously.

Be smart and let the Tockico R&D guys do the homework first, then buy. This is not to say that other manufacturers can't do the same by designing comprehensive suspension kits/parts for the Avalon. It's just that I've heard only good things about Tockico stuff - until I learn otherwise.
Regards,
Deanie

retired7

Good report. FYI; I too have the drift right problem (~4 seconds to reach shoulder of road from center of lane @ 60mph). Toyota tweeked the front end alignment and also rotated the tires. This helped a little (~4 seconds drift time increased to ~ 8 seconds). I increased the tire pressure in the right front tire by 2 psi and this increased ~8 seconds drit time to ~15 seconds.

NWBLIZZARD

easyrider300m

Just for the record, the correct spelling is "Tokico" I believe. I won't be buying a new car for at least a year to a year and a half, so I am one of the fortunate ones to see what changes Toyota makes to the Av for 2006 and 2007. Hopefully they will wake up and offer Bluetooth , a rear view camera, and a backup sensor. And perhaps even offer stiffer suspension in the XLS and Limited models. Many car makers offer suspension upgrades. Yes , Toyota offers a beefier suspension in the Touring model. Maybe they will see that the Av is now appealing to a broader age group and perhaps from feedback from the younger owners, they we see the benefit of offering the better handling suspension on the XLS and Limited. And yes, they should offer the VSC in the XL and Touring models even if they charge extra as an option.

ojor

Hi deanie:
If you look at how much room do you have between suspension and tire the avalon is pretty low already.I was just thinking to change sway bars and bushings,that should tighthen the suspension but only as it comes to turns not straight line travel.Go with polyurethane bushings;I already changed the front ones and can notice an improvement in handling.The rear sway bar is just 15mm and it needs more than that to help in handling.Alos was thinkng of going to 19 inch wheels.
By the way the front bushings are 24mm and not too complicated to change,use greasable ones.

Good luck.

mel

weavercity

After several months of assessment and evaluation of the 05 Avalon it would appear that this car has a lot of good features, however, it also has its fair share of, what might be termed oversights. I'm sure someone from Toyota occasionally reads this board and as such the following punch list is offered for future improvements IMHO.
1. Fix the transmission (can't timely select between lower gears)
(this is especially noticeable when slowing down and then accelerating)
2. Make a provision for door ding protection
3. Write a informative, complete, comprehensive, owners manual
4. Work on the trunk (size counts, as well as access)
5. Improve lighting for the odometer during daylight hours
6. Put the garage door opener on roof not the mirror
7. Use real stainless steel in exhaust system ( rust stains on the floor??)
8. Provide standard breakway/articulating side view mirrors
9. Spend an extra $5 and put a keyed entry on the passenger's door

rodc2

I'd like to suggest a #10 to your list:
10: Make the sun roof optional (Some of us tall torso guys cannot use all seat positions due the approx 2 inch loss of head room the sun roof causes)

3puttmax

Just took the new Avy to Firestone for an oil change. They don't have the new cartridge filter for the Avalon in their system. So - they can't do the oil change. I've been using this Firestone dealer because I live within walking distance - very convenient.

So - who else besides the Toyota dealer can change my oil? Who have you guys used?

Max

oran

Dear drfu;

I admit to doing a fair amount of online and personal research on the problem of installing a satellite radio system myself, XM or Sirius. I've bought the XM Direct model with the Pioneer adaptor, and a new Pioneer head unit to go with it. But my friendly neighborhood, and highly skilled, mechanic took a look at the OEM Limited dashboard-JBL system wiring and gave a thumbs down half way thru his installation of the above. Even with wiring diagrams downloaded from Toyota Tech online archives, he didn't want to mess with something that already worked okay.

Places online like Crutchfield still do not have a wiring harness to fit the JBL system wiring as go between that system and any other replacement system. Right now, I'm using a jury-rigged XM radio with output thru the cassette player, and plugin adaptor for power.

About all one can do is wait until a place like Scosche.com develops a wiring harness or anything else that works. Or order the sat radio w/new car delivery

Oran

rrogers2

I also took my first long trip, from Atlanta to Florida Keys. Did some mixed driving brfore I got to Florida. Filled up at florida and averaged about 80 MPH and was getting 34 MPG. This stayed the same for several gas fills and coming home as well. I was getting over 400 miles on a tank. Once I got passed middles Georgia and started climbing hills, mileaged dropped to about 27 MPG.

Have door for radio on order as current door will VERY rarely open.

rhack

Read my post # 6593, I installed mine myself, wasn't that difficult, took about 3 hours.

fragmire

I concur with the moonroof comment. Though I don't have the head room problem, I rarely, if ever, use the moonroof. I feel like I'm paying for something that I don't use, yet have to live with the additional wind and road noise.

fragmire

Is there a particular reason why you're avoiding Toyota dealers? Just out of curiosity.

littlejohn600

Att: 3puttmax
It ain't easy: See
Avalon_Oil_Change.pdf.

3puttmax

I try to avoid the Toyota dealers because they are more time-consuming and more expensive. I've got the car in now for an oil change costing $29 - I would normally pay half that at Firestone. The main thing is I can walk home from the local Firestone dealer, and walk back later to get the car. It's not that I'm pushing Firestone, they just happen to be convenient for me.

Max