Can anyone tell me if the M still has those controls in the cushion of the seat? The photos on Edmunds depict it that way, but I've seen others such as at the Infiniti web site where it doesnt appear to be that way. I hope they got them out of the seat.
The seat controls on the left side of the seat (between the seat and the door) in the "traditional" location, not on the right side of the seat cushion (as in the G35). The photo on Edmund's is inaccurate, and may reflect a concept car.
I've found it's very difficult to negotiate on a price below MSRP on a car you've preordered (my own experience). They've kind of got you by the neck...they know you're dying for the car and are likely not willing to wait another month or 2 for the next shipment. They are usually willing to deal (if they will at all) when trying to get you to sign for one, after that, they've already got you.
Test drove the m35x - great ride - but the centre console is a little too confusing, and packaging the crap-[non-permissible content removed] DVD function with the DTS 5.1 makes sense if you're Infiniti- the DTS is OK, but no one needs the DVD - this is $2K option in Canada that most will forego - too bad, because the margin would increase if buyers could get the 5.1-only config.
Still - ANYONE who buys any vehicle for MSP is a FOOL (see my name here). And that's putting it lightly. Here's the news, Hoss - all cars depreciate - some (Infiniti?) a little faster than others. If you want to pay a dealer's gross margin of over CAD$12K on this car, in order to get it a few months earlier, then you're what we call a 'laydown'. You should NEVER pay list.
I did not anticipate any deal, although when I pre-ordered the vehicle, I did so also thinking that the car would be moving off of the lot so well that no one would be getting the car for below MSRP for the first few months (the G35 still mostly sells close to sticker). I was therefore surprised to hear that "invoice + 2500" figure. As the next closest Infiniti dealer is 2 hours away, I do not expect any competition to lower prices in this area (unlike the fabulous deal I got on a Sequoia 2.5 years ago
I test drove a base 35x today. It felt very solid. On a relatively sharply curved highway entrance ramp, the body did not lean at all at just over 40 mph. The dealer said he had taken the same ramp at 50 and it felt the same. At 60 he said it got a little dicey. While I am no professional driver, I can't imagine taking that ramp at over 50. The car was also very quiet, but I don't have much to compare to (my current vehicle is noisy). The car seemed to pull best between 30 mph and 80(I looked down after entering the highway and was at 80--the little wind noise made me think I was doing 60). Sorry, but I can't tell you how it performs over 85 (the dealer was next to me).
I only tried the paddle-shifters once (up and down). It seemed very smooth. The brakes are quite grippy. Rapid lane shifts were easy without roll. There was nearly imperceptible dive with heavy braking (about 45 mph to 0--can't even try to guess the distance, but I was pushing hard, and it stopped faster than I am used to).
The only (mild) reservation I had during the drive was the start off of the line. While it accelerated well above 30, I was not thrown backwards when floored from a stop. Remember, this is the 35x (AWD) version. It was not slow, but I was expecting just a little more (for when you have to humble that 2005 Avalon from the light when your lane merges over). For me, this is a non-issue as I would rather have the torque for passing on the highways and merging from ramps (and it should still humble the Avalon).
I have three kids, one in a forward-facing child seat (the seat is somewhat wide). I put the seat and the two older ones in back. They had plenty of leg room. Hip room was better than I expected with the seat in the middle. It would be okay for long drives with kids. It would have been somewhat cramped with an adult on either side (do-able, but not for long drives). There is a large hump in the middle, not clearly larger than any other car with power to the rear tires. This would obviously influence where you put a car seat if you had to have three people in back.
I believe the dealer also thinks these are going to fly out the door. They did not ask for a deposit in October or November. I mentioned this to them again today and asked if they needed one. They again said they did not. To me, this means that they know it will sell if (for some unknown reason that I cannot imagine at this point) I do not take delivery.
One last point/question--does anybody else who pre-ordered an M know when their car will arrive? I was surprised to hear that mine will arrive the third week in March (I was expecting earlier).
This is not related to how the car drives. There were two 12-volt outlets in the base 35x that I drove (one in the ashtray and one in the center console). However, if you get the dvd player or just the dvd-audio (ie. without the video), this lies in the console and covers (presumably using the wiring) the outlet in the console. This leaves you with one 12v outlet. As my phone is usually plugged in to charge, this means the ashtray will always be open.
(The M45 sport in the showroom had the dvd-audio only and did not have the second outlet. The unit was in the console where the second 12 volt outlet was on the base model).
Doc, good review. It's going to be hard to "humble" the 2005 Avalon in a M35x. The Avalon, at 6.6s, is faster than the GS300. Seeing as how the RWD M35 is 6.3s, I'd estimate the M35x to be about 6.6s as well.
The Avalon is 280hp/260 torque, and the M35x is 280hp/270 torque. But considering that the M35x is about 600 pounds heavier than the Avalon, those 10 more torque must really be working. Maybe the gearing in the M is more aggressive as well.
I noticed that there are AV (Yellow, White, Red) in the ashtray area of the rear seat. This was on a vehicle with just the DVD audio package, so they were not there to display on a ceiling mounted DVD (unless they are just automatically stubbed in). Does anyone know if these are live audio in feeds. I would love to think that I could hook my Ipod up to these connections and have it play over the stereo. Any thoughts?
"for when you have to humble that 2005 Avalon from the light when your lane merges over). For me, this is a non-issue as I would rather have the torque for passing on the highways and merging from ramps (and it should still humble the Avalon)."
You really think Avalon buyers are going to floor the accelerator at a stop light? Come on. Its a TOYOTA AVALON. Maybe if grampa drops his heart pills he might spasm the pedal accidentally, but blue hair Avalon buyers arent buying the car for its 280 ponies. Frankly Im not even sure why Toyota used that engine, its a waste. The GS300's 3.0L would've been more than plenty.
Went to my local dealer today and drove the M45. Wow! What a car!! The dealer told me they were taking deposits but when I told them I wanted the same color combo as the M45 Sport demo, they offered to sell me the car. They told me I had to wait a week or so until another car came in. They offered $1000 off sticker. Is this a scam? I've been following the M35/45 threads and it sound like the dealers can't sell the demos. In fact, the sticker on the car has no price and says "demo not for sale" What do you think? They also quoted me lease deal of residual 58% and money factor .00253.
Went to the Auto Show today in Chicago. Infiniti in general did a very nice job and there was quite a bit of traffic around the M35 & M45. The MC lady gave me a thorough demo on the interior features of the M45 sport and it was quite impressive. The navigation system has excellent graphics and even shows landmark buildings as you approach it. The one new thing I learned today was that if you choose the XM radio option over the Sirius, you get the real-time traffic info, like the Acura RL.
The interior materials were very nice and the seat was quite comfortable. I do have to say that the new Lexus GS has a more luxurious feeling interior but the M's interior is more than adequate. The M's keyfob looks cooler and it seems like it was roomier than the Lexus.
One negative thing about buying a preview vehicle is the fact that it gets more than it's share of pedal to the metal, slam on the brakes and take hard corners demo than the average car that gets taken for a test drive.
Those of you who jump around here on edmunds have probably seen some of my posts -- I guess I should change my name to "lamenting audi owner." My wife and I have had dozens of Audis since our first in 1977. Never thought we would seriously consider any other brand. Almost thought it was impossible that any car company could compete with Audi for the features, functions, driving experience and value proposition.
And, in our experience, the ONLY countries that could even produce cars that could merit our attention were in Europe.
Some months ago, we started driving a bunch of different cars, knowing we would not make a decision in the heat of passion since we had months to go before we would be backed into THAT corner.
We have driven Acura's TL, but STILL not the RL, Mercedes, Jeep, BMW, and, of course, several Audis; two weeks ago we drove an Infiniti G35x and were told we "might" be able to drive a new M, since Inifiniti was going to bring them to the Cincinnati Auto Show.
We thought we could drive the 300C AWD over the weekend, still none were available, ditto the RL. What the heck, let's call the Infiniti dealer and see what's up. "Come on over and drive a new M35x -- we've got one right here right now!"
So we did.
Saturday here in SW Ohio was a 57 degree sunny and dry day -- what a great time to go for a long drive, on the freeways and the twisties.
So we did.
Then we went to the BMW store and drove a 330xi.
(being professional car test drivers requires so many sacrifices!)
Here is the skinny: although the BMW was "a 2005" and the Infiniti was a 2006 -- and the M was bigger and probably should be compared to the BMW 5 -- they drove remarkably alike. Damning with faint praise? Who would be insulted by this -- Infiniti or BMW?
The BMW comes to market with a reputation for road manners and driver orientation that are virtually peerless. For the Infiniti to somehow have captured some of that (a lot of that, actually) "feeling" is a huge compliment to Infiniti and should make the Germans (all of them, in fact) sit up and take notice.
The Infiniti M35x with the Journey Package ONLY was quick, smooth, comfortable, powerful -- and, most importantly, "able to go like a snake in a rat hole!"
I'm not exactly sure what that means, but that is what my wife always says when she wants to throw out her highest compliment about a car. I remarked, quoting Pretty Woman, "this thing corners like it is on rails."
The fact that the car was simultaneously able to feel "almost" as luxurious as the new Audi A6 took me by surprise. The fact that the 280HP engine felt "almost" as strong as the Audi 4.2 V8, was astounding. The fact that the M35x so equipped was ~$5,000 - $6,000 less MSRP than the Audi (I have, mentally added the $2,000 navi system to the M35x and configured a 3.2 A6, even though the Infiniti's engine would actually put the M35x in between the A6 3.2 and 4.2 in terms of capability.)
At base price, the Infiniti is so chock full of features that are options on the German cars it is somewhat difficult to get to apples to apples.
Suffice it to say, my preconceived notions for a Japanese Premium Sports Sedan were virtually totally shattered (I rented a Lexus GS not too long ago while on a biz trip and was unimpressed with the car from a driver's perspective.)
The Infiniti M35x feels close to the Audi A6 equipped with a sport suspension -- very close. On familiar twisty secondary roads, the body roll was minimal -- and the comfort did not seem to have been traded for handling prowess. The M's chassis HAS to be significantly stiffer than most to achieve this balance.
And speaking of balance, the Infiniti is only slightly NOSE HEAVY -- 54 46 F/R weight distribution. Heck the BMW's F/R weight balance is 52 48, and of course the Audi comes in at 60 40 weight distribution. Where the Audi (my perennial fave) plows (understeers), the Infiniti (gulp) "carves" on its standard 18" 245 x 45 V rated UHP all season tires (imagine if the tires were upgraded to MAX performance summer only tires?)
Summary: near BMW like balance and handling, overall it felt like a new A6 with a sport suspension except at the limit, where its more neutral balance made it a more cooperative driving partner (than the Audi).
I cannot attest to the rear wheel biased AWD's superiority over Audis quattro -- I find the Audi's system to be every bit as seamless as both Infiniti's and BMW's.
The engine in the Infiniti was smooth, quiet and powerful, until pushed then it made sweet sounds -- not as sweet as the Audi 4.2, but as sweet or sweeter than either Audis 3.2 or BMW's 3.0 (both of these latter engines are not known for being raucous under full throttle, so this is yet another triumph for Infiniti.)
Ventilated (cool or warm) seats -- who woulda thought they were more than a gimmick? The interior of the car started warming up, so we turned on the cooling seat function -- initially we couldn't feel a thing, about 5 minutes later we both turned to each other and said "cool!"
Huge trunk.
Kinda bland styling, but better (subjectively of course) by far than the Accord-looking Acura RL, no where near as good looking as the TL, the upcoming BMW 3 and the new "big mouth" Audis.
Fit and finish 95% Audi -- the rosewood trim gets a B+ -- with Audi like wood trim, the M would have taken a couple of points north bump (in my subjective opinion).
I cannot attest to the durability of the interior, of course. But it was far more inviting than any of the BMW's we next sat in -- including the fantastic "6" series Bimmer.
If I may be so bold:
Acura like technology and features
Audi like interior
BMW like (driving) dynamics
5 series wannabee? No doubt.
Hit the ball out of the park? No, but it is still a home run.
Acura, Audi and BMW (probably some other notables,too -- Lexus, Jaguar, hmmm?) should not take this one for granted. The old M Infiniti and this one are not related to each other -- this one ought to be able to allow Infiniti to sell as many of them as they can screw together.
Thankfully I do not have to make my absolute drop dead decision in the next 3 days -- my vote at this point (in the heat of passion) would be Infiniti.
And so, one more "Euro forever" driver takes off the blinders, wakes up, and smells the Nissan. The direct injection 3.2L is a great engine.. for the A4. When saddled with A6 weight though, its just not good enough. Its slower than the 2.7T, especially the final S-line run of that model, and is basically back of the pack now that E is E350. Even the GS300 AWD should be at least one or two tenths faster. So the M35x is faster, cheaper, and handles better. Win, win, win.
I bought my Lincoln LS because I thought they were serious about competing in the Audi/BMW world. Well, they weren't, and here we are.
I bought a Datsun 240Z in '73 and backed it out of the showroom with 3 miles on it. About ten years later I had to say goodbye to it because it was no contest in a collision with a Suburban, though it had 224K miles on it, with very few (& inexpensive) issues.
Anyway, I've strayed over the years, but will be going back to my Asian (car) roots next time around. Our family owns a '04 Pathfinder (last year they were built in Japan & weren't too big) and will in the future own some version of the GS or M, for my car.
I'm not sure how BMW is able to subsidize their leases to the extent that they are, but Audi has apparently pulled the plug on this kind of freebie stuff.
Kiss Audi goodbye? What a shame. I will always remember my weekend trips through the Alps in TDi diesel Audis that were more fun than laughing. Next time I'm over the big water, I'll certainly ask for an Audi to rent.
I test drove the M35, the RL, and the A6. The M35 seemed to be tighter than the RL or the A6. The M35 engine sounded smoother than the RL or the A6. When the RL was pushed it sounded a light raspy while the A6 3.2 sounded like a loud GM V6. The M35 seemed bigger inside than the RL. The bottom line is who will give me the better deal the M35 or the RL. The Acura dealers seem more open to dealing while the Infiniti dealers are sticking with MSRP.
I live in the midwest. Test drove the M35 RWD Friday. Awesome car. I have talked to dealers in St. Louis and Chicago. Both are willing to gie $1000 off sticker. They can deliver cars in their inventory by the end of the month. They can devert cars to their dealship if you are looking for certain packages. The reason they have no price stickers on the windows is it is against the law to sell a 2006 model this early. The stickers currently read they are on the dealers lot for storage purposes. Their is a 12 volt outlet in the ashtray along with one in the back seat area which is in a position a the driver could use it for a cell phone. Most dealers asre playing the "must stick to msrp game". Don't buy it. Ask around and you will get a deal. Infiniti is making lots of these cars and the mid level luxury market is getting full. You will not get any great deal , but a grand off is a grand off. Only negative is some of the dash buttons are hard to reach. I like it better than the bmw 5 and audi a6. I just hope it is reliable.
I know you are a big fan of this car, and so am I.
Do you think that 17" wheels could be obtained for this car? The 18" V rated 260 wear factor is a concern for several reasons. Namely harsh ride, balance & wear problems.
Briefly, because I did not expect to buy one that day. And I would drive one for much longer, before decision time, assuming the M45 Sport is on my final “short list”. I did want to drive their only M45 Sport before anyone places a deposit on it, as it looks like 3 weeks or so before ‘stock’ units will start arriving. (Right now, based on my brief seat time, it certainly looks like the M45 will make the cut . .)
I have read every review posted here and in some other forums – thanks to all for posting.
Here are my impressions.
Context: Current vehicle (at approx. 19,000 miles) 2003 Lincoln V8 Sport (3.9L V8 – 280 HP approx. same TQ, 17” wheels w/50 series OEM Michelins – biased somewhat more toward comfortable ride and long tread life than ultimate handling). Published tests suggest that this car is capable of approx. a 14.8 sec SS Quarter. The M45 SS Quarter times I have seen are: C+D = 14.2, R&T = 13.8.
I have also recently driven: A6 4.2, S4, STS V8 (1SE & 1SF), G35, S-Type R
I did not even consider the M35. I similarly reject the A6 3.2 and new RL (other nice cars, certainly), as I simply want more acceleration performance from my next car. Even the A6 4.2, while not exactly ‘slow’, is significantly slower than the M45. (C+D: M45 = 14.2 at 101, A6 4.2 = 14.8 at 97) And this means the A6 4.2 is quite similar to what I drive now. And I am looking for ‘quicker’ this time around . .
Dynamically, I was very impressed with the ride and handling. With 19” wheels and low profile tires (40-s), Infiniti has done a very impressive job with the ride / handling compromise. At lower speeds (35 – 55) it struck me as stable, nimble, with well damped / muted response to bumps and broken pavement – impressive. Highway ride was steady, composed, stable.
I was not so impressed with the acceleration. Certainly, it was acceptable, just not quite what I had expected from reading published numbers.
[Aside: I recently spent 36 hours driving an S-Type R. An extended test drive. I mention this here not to suggest that the M45 and the R are comparable in all ways, but because both C+D and R&T published quarter mile numbers suggest that the M45 ought to be very similar in acceleration to the R. Within a few tenth over the quarter mile. And low 14-s high 13-s are very quick times for a 4-door Luxury / Sport sedan with an MSRP close to $50K. In that 36 hours (over 200 miles), I was very impressed with many things about the R – including the exhilarating acceleration – from any speed in any (of 6) gear. Now my understanding is that the acceleration times published for the R were somewhat less impressive than the weight and HP / TQ would suggest, due to early and drastically “torque managed” shifts in the 1 – 2 and 2 – 3 shifts. The acceleration in each gear was certainly ‘entertaining’. My guess in that the M45 did not ‘feel’ quite so impressive to me as I expected, as the M shifts apparently occur more quickly and at higher RPM. Thus the times are better than the acceleration in each gear might suggest – or the R times are worse, depending on how one looks at such things . . Also, the R had approx. 3,500 miles of ‘break-in’ – another possible contributing factor here.]
Confirmed 2300 rpm at 60. So – the engine was turning about 15% faster than I am used to. The engine is essentially silent at any steady speed I drove – up to about 80 on the Interstate. Meaning whatever noise it does make blends in unobtrusively. During acceleration the mechanical and exhaust noises blend into a rather muted but pleasant and expensive sounding hum. I could appreciate a bit more V8 heterodyne beat from the exhaust on acceleration – but that’s just me. And I’d prefer a deeper overdrive ratio in top gear – for improved highway cruising MPG – but that’s about my only real criticism here.
In deference to less than 30 miles on this M’s odometer (and expectation that some consumer will eventually own this car), although I did accelerate at WOT several times, but I did not exceed approx. 4,000 RPM. ( = TQ peak)
The Manumatic (I currently run in this mode 95+% of the time – and have both in my current car and 2 priors) worked quite well. The rev matching on downshifts appeared better sorted than in the G35-s I drove late last Fall.
Noise. I almost always drive with the Sunroof in the full vent position. Somewhere between 70 and 80 I began to notice some wind noise from the roof. Probably not a large issue – but interesting that the R had absolutely no wind noise up to over 85 . . .
Interior: Comfortable and supportive seats. Plenty of room. Glad they moved the seat adjustments from the top of the seats (G35 and ‘concept' M) to the sides. There appears to be more head and leg room in the rear than in the STS or Jag.
I was more impressed with the interior layout that I expected to be – particularly the center stack / top tier - sloped away from the driver. Odd – or at least different. In daylight, it certainly works OK for me. I will need to check nighttime illumination / visibility . . .
I did not particularly care for the aluminum trim. The only other M45 (a Non-Sport) had the rosewood w/ Graphite. Much more to my taste.
I was disappointed to learn that the specific interior combination that I would prefer (Stone / Gray) is not available with the Rosewood on an M45 Sport. Black / Graphite is not the best interior color for the Hot-Lanta area. Bummer . . .
So – an M45 Sport, at approx. $50K, has everything I’d want - except the Rosewood substitute for the aluminum.
It includes the suspension tuning I’d prefer and performance tires, cooled / ventilated front seats, appropriate gearing (one important reason I’d need to have the significantly more expensive 1SF or 1SG versions of the STS V8 is that 1SD and 1SE versions have a noticeably less aggressive final drive ratio) – and it does not include anything of significance that I’d not want to pay extra for. The interior and exterior size is appropriate for my needs.
Nice that if 23 MPG is all the highway MPG the M45 can achieve, at least a 20 gallon fuel tank is included. (I still find it v. odd that the STS V8 has a 17.5 gallon tank, the S-Type R, 18.5, and the S4 is similar – I do like to at least have a reasonable cruising range . . .)
All I really want / need is included in the M45 Sport – so $50K seems like a (relative) bargain compared to some otherwise similarly equipped vehicles. None of the additional options or available packages particularly appeal to me. By comparison, the STS V8, for instance, equipped as I’d buy it (1SF, for several reasons), lists for approx. $58K. Interesting that the S-Type R (if one could be found without the Nav System) would also list in the v. high $50-s. And the A6 4.2 as I’d buy it looks like to list at $53 – 54K.
Exterior: Well, styling is clearly an individual / taste thing, but it certainly looks acceptable to me – particularly in black, where the curved front bumper to fender seam is not so obvious.
I am pleased to see that display of fundamental trip computer information such as MPG and DTE is available on the M without requiring purchase of the $2K Nav System – a point against the G.
“Bargain” may not be an entirely appropriate word to describe a $50K car – but in the context of several cars I see as competition, it certainly seems “value priced” for me.
I get all that, and the service of course with audi.
Thanks, I will watch this one closely, and the Lexus also!
I having a feeling that if audi "screws the pooch", the return of good lease deals will be a factor!
I had a 1991 G20 back in the day. It was a nice solid car for the money. Fun to drive, a bit slow, but had a nice feel. The service was INCREDIBLE! Remember, this was back when their showrooms were like japanese shrines and nobody had ever seen waterfalls, and spaious layouts like this. I was smitten by it all and it added to the experience.
Thanks for the write up. I too am comtemplating the M45 w/similar options.
I share your desire for a better OD ratio on the hwy. Curious that with such a big and obviously powerful engine, Infiniti did not see fit to make 5th lower. I would prefer 2,000 rpm or less at 60. My departed TL type-S spun 2k rpm at 70, for criminy sake. This may be an advantage for the GS, with a 6-speed trans. Still, with no sport package on the GS the M45 at $50k with sport and more power is really tempting.
<<<<< I noticed that there are AV (Yellow, White, Red) in the ashtray area of the rear seat. This was on a vehicle with just the DVD audio package, so they were not there to display on a ceiling mounted DVD (unless they are just automatically stubbed in). Does anyone know if these are live audio in feeds. I would love to think that I could hook my Ipod up to these connections and have it play over the stereo. Any thoughts? >>>>>
Yes, you can use those audio inputs to play an iPod through the stereo system. I asked the sales guy to show me how to turn on the stereo "AUX" input setting, which he did. Good iPod compatibility is a must for me. (As well as XM radio).
Two more things:
Those inputs are available only with the DVD audio or the DVD player options (either one will do).
Those inputs can be used for video as well as audio, on the center DVD screen or, (when the emergency brake is on), on the front Nav screen.
Question....If you order DVD Audio, not the overhead DVD player...is there still a DVD player inside the armrest space, and if so...can you play DVD's on the nav screen..(when not driving)?
Yes, the DVD player is still in the armrest and it will play DVD's - only when parked.
I am really excited about the connectivity of the rear AV jacks. If anyone has ever connected an Ipod (or any other MP3 player for that matter), thru a tape deck or FM transmitter you will know that sound quality suffers. It will be very easy to connect headphone adapters with right and left stereo outs to the AV unit in the M's and have much better sound quality. This just gives the stereo system in the new M's along with all of its other features another star in my book.
I've had the dubious opportunity to drive both the M35 and M45. The stability of both vehicles was astounding. There is absolutely no difference between the two cars with the exception of the engines. They are the same size, same interior luxury and sportiness, same technology, same trunk space, etc. When I drove the M45, I thought I wrenched my neck on a powerful acceleration - I haven't driven anything in a 4 door sedan that responded so quickly, nimbly and with such force - 335 hp with 340 ft.lbs. of torque. Yes, Infiniti has created a vehicle that can stand up to the best of them. The M35 responded well - of course - due to their use of the best V-6 engine produced (Wards Automotive)at 280 hp.
The layout of the vehicle is what is most impressive - the voice activiated navigation system is easy to use and required no buttons to press except for the voice button on the steering wheel.
The studio 5.1 surround sound is something to behold. I could pick out each instrument with separation I've never experienced. It will blow you mind - and your ear drums if given a chance. Best audio system in or out of a car I've ever heard.
Leasing is made easier due to a residual well over 60% on a 39x12,000 mile contract. In the low 500 range for that lease with inceptions only - on the M35 nicely equipped.
My vote is definitely Infiniti in this vehicle class - competition is the BMW530i and 545i for M45, Benz S500, etc. No comparison for what you get for your money - power, looks, technology, and pure "inspiration!"
<<<< Question....If you order DVD Audio, not the overhead DVD player...is there still a DVD player inside the armrest space, and if so...can you play DVD's on the nav screen..(when not driving)? >>>>>
Yes, the DVD player is in the center console even if you order DVD audio without the overhead player.
And yes you can play DVDs on the nav screen when the emergency break is on. It looked very impressive.
Also, I'm sure someone will come up with a hack to get around the emergency break requirement if anyone wants that.
I am seriously considering two cars: the M45 and the Chrysler 300C. I like the M45 better, but the price difference of $15K is hard to argue against. To help me justify purchasing the more expensive M45, I was trying to figure out if a $10-$15K difference will still exist at the time of sale. That is, if I do well at re-sell 4-5 years down the road, I've only lost the use of $15K (and all the interest it could earn) for the time period. This, to me, is likely acceptable.
But, if the residual value of the two cars is relatively close, then losing the $15K is not acceptable.
Chrysler indeed has a unique car that is very "hot" at the moment. It makes me think back to the PT Cruiser which was also very hot for a few years, but now seems to be a dime a dozen and the residual value has probably dropped significantly. On the other hand, the G35, which seems to be a good benchmark for the M45, has excellent residual value, and will likely retain this value for a while. I hope that the M45 follows the trend of the G35 - which should be the case due to all of the favorable comparisons to industry leaders such as the BMW 545i.
"the G35, which seems to be a good benchmark for the M45, has excellent residual value, and will likely retain this value for a while. I hope that the M45 follows the trend of the G35"
These are the residuals I have seen posted for the M45s recently - from IFS:
M45 Sedan (15,000 miles) 36 mo to 42 mo add 1% for 12K and 2% for 10K
24/71%
36/60%
39/59%
42/57%
M45 Sport (15,000 miles) 36 mo to 42 mo add 1% for 12K and 2% for 10K
24/71%
36/60%
39/59%
42/57%
Rates vary from model to term but nothing is over .00194
“I am seriously considering two cars: the M45 and the Chrysler 300C. I like the M45 better, but the price difference of $15K is hard to argue against.”
Above some arbitrary number (in the sense that the # would likely be different for everyone), say $35K, most of us find ourselves faced with a “diminishing returns” situation.
The increasing cost of a vehicle buys additional good stuff. The central question / issue is whether or not the additional “stuff” (better this, more of that, additional equipment, etc.) is worth the additional $15K cost. To us.
To me the (some) additional cost, to the level of close to $50K, MAY be worth it to me. I will really not know until I have completed some negotiations.
As to the re-sale / trade-in value 2 or 3 or 4 years from now. The only way to be certain of that is with a lease. (See residuals posted above.) Otherwise any number of factors can influence these numbers. If gasoline doubles in cost (at the pump) over the next 4 years, for example, the M35 might hold better value as a percent of MSRP than an M45. And a Honda Hybrid better still.
Personally, I am reasonably frugal and conscientious about most large purchases (home, major appliances, etc.) – everything EXCEPT cars.
To me, it is worth more $$s to have a car that I enjoy more, the many hours / miles I spend in my car each year.
To lower the cost difference, maybe you should check out the M35?
I recently traded in my '99 Chrylser 300M (for an Acura TL). The 300M was a wonderful car, but (somewhat) worthless on trade. One salesman confided in me that on trade, almost every domestic nameplate car is considered a "dog." I got three different trade in quotes, none even close to "trade in" value from NADA or KBB. But I got a good deal on the TL with low financing and, eventually, so-so trade in value.
Book values don't matter in the real world. If they did, we'd pay "book value (MSRP?)" when we bought the new car (and who does that)! I'd have to believe an Infiniti will hold it's value better than a Chrylser.
A car is not an investment. If you can afford it, get the car you want. I knew the 300M wouldn't hold its value, but it is the car I wanted and have no regrets (yes, I still miss it...). Diggin' the TL, though!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
I know that I am slightly comparing apples to oranges here, but I think it is still somewhat indicative of the current value on the newer Infiniti's. I am actually trading in my G35 coupe on an M45 sport, so I have gotten three trade-in quotes for the G. KBB for mine with 24,000 miles was $25,000 - the Infiniti dealer offered $26 right off the bat, took to a used dealer I know and he offered me $27, took it to a local CarMax and they offered me $28. I only paid $33. I was in heaven. I took the CarMax quote back to the Infiniti dealer and told them I needed them to match - They did. I doubt you could touch that with a ten foot pole with a Chrysler product, even one as hot as the 300 currently is.
Excellent suggestions and comments. I appreciate everyone chiming in, and I think you have all given me the nudge I needed to buy the car I want - the M45.
. . . of the Acura RL, Infiniti M and new Lexus GS over on the RL forum, fresh from the Cincinnati Auto Show (the new automotive center of the known world -- NOT.)
Go for the M. As hot as the new 300 is, there will still be gobs of them crowding rental car parking lots, and residuals will inevitably suffer as those cars make it onto the used market. There's been hot American iron before, but thus far only the Viper has been able to enjoy import level residual value.
Has there ever been a Chrysler with a good trade-in value? I can't remember the last one. The big three Japanese, Toyota, Honda and Nissan all have proven themselves over time with the exception of a few bad models. Nissan [Infiniti], has made great strides and I believe after driving the M35, which I believe will be a huge hit, will hold great value, like the G35. Lexus resales have proven themselves as has Acura. I currently own a 2001 TL with 29k miles and am looking forward to purchasing a M35 in about 6 months when the prices come down. I have also driven the Acura RL, and while it is a nice ride, the M is quicker and has a nicer interior IMO. The RL has a few options I don't really need which has pushed up the price. The M35 with a journey package is thousands less and a much better value IMO. I believe Acura will have to discount the RL heavily by fall. I live in south Florida and have seen only 2 RL's on the rode. The dealer close to me still has the same ones on the lot for a few weeks now. I think the lack of choices between a 6 and 8 will really hurt them in the future. When Lexus new GS hits the rode and the M is seen more it will hurt the RL. Just my opinion.
I agree. However, I will wait until GS comes out. I mean look at RL. I still think people should have waited until M and GS come out before you commit to which car to buy. I will even go further. Wait until next year for all the bugs to be fixed. After all, you start to lose money once you drive that baby out of the lot:-) I would also add Corvette to the list.
My current choice has to be either M35X fully loaded or M45 Sport. I test drove the M35 last night. I like it a lot. A lot has been said. I will just add one thing about transmission. The transmission still hesitate to downshift somehow, yet only for very very short period of time. I think I was in a gray area. I am waiting to test drive GS, then RL around April.
Not always true... Many antique cars are investments and worth many times their original MSRP. My 1958 Chevy is worth many times more then it's original brand new price. it has increased in value since I bought it. I could sell it tomorrow for a profit. I can't really see any of today's cars every doing that though.. except a few.
The M model has been driven in Japan under the name Fuga for the last year. From what I can find it has been very successful. The engine is proven. Unlike American cars, who tend to rushed out the door I would be fully confident in this one. It is to bad the American car makers cannot get it right and continue to lose market share. Maybe someday they will get it right. IMO.
Comments
I've found it's very difficult to negotiate on a price below MSRP on a car you've preordered (my own experience). They've kind of got you by the neck...they know you're dying for the car and are likely not willing to wait another month or 2 for the next shipment. They are usually willing to deal (if they will at all) when trying to get you to sign for one, after that, they've already got you.
Good luck, though.
Still - ANYONE who buys any vehicle for MSP is a FOOL (see my name here). And that's putting it lightly. Here's the news, Hoss - all cars depreciate - some (Infiniti?) a little faster than others. If you want to pay a dealer's gross margin of over CAD$12K on this car, in order to get it a few months earlier, then you're what we call a 'laydown'. You should NEVER pay list.
I test drove a base 35x today. It felt very solid. On a relatively sharply curved highway entrance ramp, the body did not lean at all at just over 40 mph. The dealer said he had taken the same ramp at 50 and it felt the same. At 60 he said it got a little dicey. While I am no professional driver, I can't imagine taking that ramp at over 50. The car was also very quiet, but I don't have much to compare to (my current vehicle is noisy). The car seemed to pull best between 30 mph and 80(I looked down after entering the highway and was at 80--the little wind noise made me think I was doing 60). Sorry, but I can't tell you how it performs over 85 (the dealer was next to me).
I only tried the paddle-shifters once (up and down). It seemed very smooth. The brakes are quite grippy. Rapid lane shifts were easy without roll. There was nearly imperceptible dive with heavy braking (about 45 mph to 0--can't even try to guess the distance, but I was pushing hard, and it stopped faster than I am used to).
The only (mild) reservation I had during the drive was the start off of the line. While it accelerated well above 30, I was not thrown backwards when floored from a stop. Remember, this is the 35x (AWD) version. It was not slow, but I was expecting just a little more (for when you have to humble that 2005 Avalon from the light when your lane merges over). For me, this is a non-issue as I would rather have the torque for passing on the highways and merging from ramps (and it should still humble the Avalon).
I have three kids, one in a forward-facing child seat (the seat is somewhat wide). I put the seat and the two older ones in back. They had plenty of leg room. Hip room was better than I expected with the seat in the middle. It would be okay for long drives with kids. It would have been somewhat cramped with an adult on either side (do-able, but not for long drives). There is a large hump in the middle, not clearly larger than any other car with power to the rear tires. This would obviously influence where you put a car seat if you had to have three people in back.
I believe the dealer also thinks these are going to fly out the door. They did not ask for a deposit in October or November. I mentioned this to them again today and asked if they needed one. They again said they did not. To me, this means that they know it will sell if (for some unknown reason that I cannot imagine at this point) I do not take delivery.
One last point/question--does anybody else who pre-ordered an M know when their car will arrive? I was surprised to hear that mine will arrive the third week in March (I was expecting earlier).
(The M45 sport in the showroom had the dvd-audio only and did not have the second outlet. The unit was in the console where the second 12 volt outlet was on the base model).
The Avalon is 280hp/260 torque, and the M35x is 280hp/270 torque. But considering that the M35x is about 600 pounds heavier than the Avalon, those 10 more torque must really be working. Maybe the gearing in the M is more aggressive as well.
(I just threw that "humble" in there because I am in denial that the "Japanese Buick" might be as quick as the M I am getting).
You really think Avalon buyers are going to floor the accelerator at a stop light? Come on. Its a TOYOTA AVALON. Maybe if grampa drops his heart pills he might spasm the pedal accidentally, but blue hair Avalon buyers arent buying the car for its 280 ponies. Frankly Im not even sure why Toyota used that engine, its a waste. The GS300's 3.0L would've been more than plenty.
Thanks for the review. That car sounds very impressive. I can't wait to go and test drive one myself. Maybe next weekend.
Best wishes.
The interior materials were very nice and the seat was quite comfortable. I do have to say that the new Lexus GS has a more luxurious feeling interior but the M's interior is more than adequate. The M's keyfob looks cooler and it seems like it was roomier than the Lexus.
One negative thing about buying a preview vehicle is the fact that it gets more than it's share of pedal to the metal, slam on the brakes and take hard corners demo than the average car that gets taken for a test drive.
And, in our experience, the ONLY countries that could even produce cars that could merit our attention were in Europe.
Some months ago, we started driving a bunch of different cars, knowing we would not make a decision in the heat of passion since we had months to go before we would be backed into THAT corner.
We have driven Acura's TL, but STILL not the RL, Mercedes, Jeep, BMW, and, of course, several Audis; two weeks ago we drove an Infiniti G35x and were told we "might" be able to drive a new M, since Inifiniti was going to bring them to the Cincinnati Auto Show.
We thought we could drive the 300C AWD over the weekend, still none were available, ditto the RL. What the heck, let's call the Infiniti dealer and see what's up. "Come on over and drive a new M35x -- we've got one right here right now!"
So we did.
Saturday here in SW Ohio was a 57 degree sunny and dry day -- what a great time to go for a long drive, on the freeways and the twisties.
So we did.
Then we went to the BMW store and drove a 330xi.
(being professional car test drivers requires so many sacrifices!)
Here is the skinny: although the BMW was "a 2005" and the Infiniti was a 2006 -- and the M was bigger and probably should be compared to the BMW 5 -- they drove remarkably alike. Damning with faint praise? Who would be insulted by this -- Infiniti or BMW?
The BMW comes to market with a reputation for road manners and driver orientation that are virtually peerless. For the Infiniti to somehow have captured some of that (a lot of that, actually) "feeling" is a huge compliment to Infiniti and should make the Germans (all of them, in fact) sit up and take notice.
The Infiniti M35x with the Journey Package ONLY was quick, smooth, comfortable, powerful -- and, most importantly, "able to go like a snake in a rat hole!"
I'm not exactly sure what that means, but that is what my wife always says when she wants to throw out her highest compliment about a car. I remarked, quoting Pretty Woman, "this thing corners like it is on rails."
The fact that the car was simultaneously able to feel "almost" as luxurious as the new Audi A6 took me by surprise. The fact that the 280HP engine felt "almost" as strong as the Audi 4.2 V8, was astounding. The fact that the M35x so equipped was ~$5,000 - $6,000 less MSRP than the Audi (I have, mentally added the $2,000 navi system to the M35x and configured a 3.2 A6, even though the Infiniti's engine would actually put the M35x in between the A6 3.2 and 4.2 in terms of capability.)
At base price, the Infiniti is so chock full of features that are options on the German cars it is somewhat difficult to get to apples to apples.
Suffice it to say, my preconceived notions for a Japanese Premium Sports Sedan were virtually totally shattered (I rented a Lexus GS not too long ago while on a biz trip and was unimpressed with the car from a driver's perspective.)
The Infiniti M35x feels close to the Audi A6 equipped with a sport suspension -- very close. On familiar twisty secondary roads, the body roll was minimal -- and the comfort did not seem to have been traded for handling prowess. The M's chassis HAS to be significantly stiffer than most to achieve this balance.
And speaking of balance, the Infiniti is only slightly NOSE HEAVY -- 54 46 F/R weight distribution. Heck the BMW's F/R weight balance is 52 48, and of course the Audi comes in at 60 40 weight distribution. Where the Audi (my perennial fave) plows (understeers), the Infiniti (gulp) "carves" on its standard 18" 245 x 45 V rated UHP all season tires (imagine if the tires were upgraded to MAX performance summer only tires?)
Summary: near BMW like balance and handling, overall it felt like a new A6 with a sport suspension except at the limit, where its more neutral balance made it a more cooperative driving partner (than the Audi).
I cannot attest to the rear wheel biased AWD's superiority over Audis quattro -- I find the Audi's system to be every bit as seamless as both Infiniti's and BMW's.
The engine in the Infiniti was smooth, quiet and powerful, until pushed then it made sweet sounds -- not as sweet as the Audi 4.2, but as sweet or sweeter than either Audis 3.2 or BMW's 3.0 (both of these latter engines are not known for being raucous under full throttle, so this is yet another triumph for Infiniti.)
Ventilated (cool or warm) seats -- who woulda thought they were more than a gimmick? The interior of the car started warming up, so we turned on the cooling seat function -- initially we couldn't feel a thing, about 5 minutes later we both turned to each other and said "cool!"
Huge trunk.
Kinda bland styling, but better (subjectively of course) by far than the Accord-looking Acura RL, no where near as good looking as the TL, the upcoming BMW 3 and the new "big mouth" Audis.
Fit and finish 95% Audi -- the rosewood trim gets a B+ -- with Audi like wood trim, the M would have taken a couple of points north bump (in my subjective opinion).
I cannot attest to the durability of the interior, of course. But it was far more inviting than any of the BMW's we next sat in -- including the fantastic "6" series Bimmer.
If I may be so bold:
Acura like technology and features
Audi like interior
BMW like (driving) dynamics
5 series wannabee? No doubt.
Hit the ball out of the park? No, but it is still a home run.
Acura, Audi and BMW (probably some other notables,too -- Lexus, Jaguar, hmmm?) should not take this one for granted. The old M Infiniti and this one are not related to each other -- this one ought to be able to allow Infiniti to sell as many of them as they can screw together.
Thankfully I do not have to make my absolute drop dead decision in the next 3 days -- my vote at this point (in the heat of passion) would be Infiniti.
Yikes.
And 'yikes' again . . .
More later. I drove an M45 Sport Saturday AM.
- Ray
Yikes . . .
I bought my Lincoln LS because I thought they were serious about competing in the Audi/BMW world. Well, they weren't, and here we are.
I bought a Datsun 240Z in '73 and backed it out of the showroom with 3 miles on it. About ten years later I had to say goodbye to it because it was no contest in a collision with a Suburban, though it had 224K miles on it, with very few (& inexpensive) issues.
Anyway, I've strayed over the years, but will be going back to my Asian (car) roots next time around. Our family owns a '04 Pathfinder (last year they were built in Japan & weren't too big) and will in the future own some version of the GS or M, for my car.
I'm not sure how BMW is able to subsidize their leases to the extent that they are, but Audi has apparently pulled the plug on this kind of freebie stuff.
Kiss Audi goodbye? What a shame. I will always remember my weekend trips through the Alps in TDi diesel Audis that were more fun than laughing. Next time I'm over the big water, I'll certainly ask for an Audi to rent.
Pity I can't ask for one to buy.
I test drove the M35, the RL, and the A6. The M35 seemed to be tighter than the RL or the A6. The M35 engine sounded smoother than the RL or the A6. When the RL was pushed it sounded a light raspy while the A6 3.2 sounded like a loud GM V6. The M35 seemed bigger inside than the RL. The bottom line is who will give me the better deal the M35 or the RL. The Acura dealers seem more open to dealing while the Infiniti dealers are sticking with MSRP.
I know you are a big fan of this car, and so am I.
Do you think that 17" wheels could be obtained for this car? The 18" V rated 260 wear factor is a concern for several reasons. Namely harsh ride, balance & wear problems.
I have read every review posted here and in some other forums – thanks to all for posting.
Here are my impressions.
Context: Current vehicle (at approx. 19,000 miles) 2003 Lincoln V8 Sport (3.9L V8 – 280 HP approx. same TQ, 17” wheels w/50 series OEM Michelins – biased somewhat more toward comfortable ride and long tread life than ultimate handling). Published tests suggest that this car is capable of approx. a 14.8 sec SS Quarter. The M45 SS Quarter times I have seen are: C+D = 14.2, R&T = 13.8.
I have also recently driven: A6 4.2, S4, STS V8 (1SE & 1SF), G35, S-Type R
I did not even consider the M35. I similarly reject the A6 3.2 and new RL (other nice cars, certainly), as I simply want more acceleration performance from my next car. Even the A6 4.2, while not exactly ‘slow’, is significantly slower than the M45. (C+D: M45 = 14.2 at 101, A6 4.2 = 14.8 at 97) And this means the A6 4.2 is quite similar to what I drive now. And I am looking for ‘quicker’ this time around . .
Dynamically, I was very impressed with the ride and handling. With 19” wheels and low profile tires (40-s), Infiniti has done a very impressive job with the ride / handling compromise. At lower speeds (35 – 55) it struck me as stable, nimble, with well damped / muted response to bumps and broken pavement – impressive. Highway ride was steady, composed, stable.
I was not so impressed with the acceleration. Certainly, it was acceptable, just not quite what I had expected from reading published numbers.
[Aside: I recently spent 36 hours driving an S-Type R. An extended test drive. I mention this here not to suggest that the M45 and the R are comparable in all ways, but because both C+D and R&T published quarter mile numbers suggest that the M45 ought to be very similar in acceleration to the R. Within a few tenth over the quarter mile. And low 14-s high 13-s are very quick times for a 4-door Luxury / Sport sedan with an MSRP close to $50K. In that 36 hours (over 200 miles), I was very impressed with many things about the R – including the exhilarating acceleration – from any speed in any (of 6) gear. Now my understanding is that the acceleration times published for the R were somewhat less impressive than the weight and HP / TQ would suggest, due to early and drastically “torque managed” shifts in the 1 – 2 and 2 – 3 shifts. The acceleration in each gear was certainly ‘entertaining’. My guess in that the M45 did not ‘feel’ quite so impressive to me as I expected, as the M shifts apparently occur more quickly and at higher RPM. Thus the times are better than the acceleration in each gear might suggest – or the R times are worse, depending on how one looks at such things . . Also, the R had approx. 3,500 miles of ‘break-in’ – another possible contributing factor here.]
Confirmed 2300 rpm at 60. So – the engine was turning about 15% faster than I am used to. The engine is essentially silent at any steady speed I drove – up to about 80 on the Interstate. Meaning whatever noise it does make blends in unobtrusively. During acceleration the mechanical and exhaust noises blend into a rather muted but pleasant and expensive sounding hum. I could appreciate a bit more V8 heterodyne beat from the exhaust on acceleration – but that’s just me. And I’d prefer a deeper overdrive ratio in top gear – for improved highway cruising MPG – but that’s about my only real criticism here.
In deference to less than 30 miles on this M’s odometer (and expectation that some consumer will eventually own this car), although I did accelerate at WOT several times, but I did not exceed approx. 4,000 RPM. ( = TQ peak)
The Manumatic (I currently run in this mode 95+% of the time – and have both in my current car and 2 priors) worked quite well. The rev matching on downshifts appeared better sorted than in the G35-s I drove late last Fall.
Noise. I almost always drive with the Sunroof in the full vent position. Somewhere between 70 and 80 I began to notice some wind noise from the roof. Probably not a large issue – but interesting that the R had absolutely no wind noise up to over 85 . . .
Interior: Comfortable and supportive seats. Plenty of room. Glad they moved the seat adjustments from the top of the seats (G35 and ‘concept' M) to the sides. There appears to be more head and leg room in the rear than in the STS or Jag.
I was more impressed with the interior layout that I expected to be – particularly the center stack / top tier - sloped away from the driver. Odd – or at least different. In daylight, it certainly works OK for me. I will need to check nighttime illumination / visibility . . .
I did not particularly care for the aluminum trim. The only other M45 (a Non-Sport) had the rosewood w/ Graphite. Much more to my taste.
I was disappointed to learn that the specific interior combination that I would prefer (Stone / Gray) is not available with the Rosewood on an M45 Sport. Black / Graphite is not the best interior color for the Hot-Lanta area. Bummer . . .
So – an M45 Sport, at approx. $50K, has everything I’d want - except the Rosewood substitute for the aluminum.
It includes the suspension tuning I’d prefer and performance tires, cooled / ventilated front seats, appropriate gearing (one important reason I’d need to have the significantly more expensive 1SF or 1SG versions of the STS V8 is that 1SD and 1SE versions have a noticeably less aggressive final drive ratio) – and it does not include anything of significance that I’d not want to pay extra for. The interior and exterior size is appropriate for my needs.
Nice that if 23 MPG is all the highway MPG the M45 can achieve, at least a 20 gallon fuel tank is included. (I still find it v. odd that the STS V8 has a 17.5 gallon tank, the S-Type R, 18.5, and the S4 is similar – I do like to at least have a reasonable cruising range . . .)
All I really want / need is included in the M45 Sport – so $50K seems like a (relative) bargain compared to some otherwise similarly equipped vehicles. None of the additional options or available packages particularly appeal to me. By comparison, the STS V8, for instance, equipped as I’d buy it (1SF, for several reasons), lists for approx. $58K. Interesting that the S-Type R (if one could be found without the Nav System) would also list in the v. high $50-s. And the A6 4.2 as I’d buy it looks like to list at $53 – 54K.
Exterior: Well, styling is clearly an individual / taste thing, but it certainly looks acceptable to me – particularly in black, where the curved front bumper to fender seam is not so obvious.
I am pleased to see that display of fundamental trip computer information such as MPG and DTE is available on the M without requiring purchase of the $2K Nav System – a point against the G.
“Bargain” may not be an entirely appropriate word to describe a $50K car – but in the context of several cars I see as competition, it certainly seems “value priced” for me.
Summary: Refined. Spirited. Comfortable. Solid. Competent. Fun.
Good job, Infiniti.
Cheers,
- Ray
Admitted acceleration junkie . . .
A 3.5x that comes in far less than an Audi A6 will be a very good deal.
Competition is a good for the consumer in the long run.
Mark, these are all nice cars. THe 3 bimmer also due for replacement is likely a good lease candidate!
Infiniti warranty = 60,000 miles bumper to bumper.
Free loaner car when car is in for service.
Free wash and vacuum during service.
Service is not included.
- Ray
Remembering that there are other systems and parts that can be expensive to repair, but . . .
Thanks, I will watch this one closely, and the Lexus also!
I having a feeling that if audi "screws the pooch", the return of good lease deals will be a factor!
I had a 1991 G20 back in the day. It was a nice solid car for the money. Fun to drive, a bit slow, but had a nice feel. The service was INCREDIBLE! Remember, this was back when their showrooms were like japanese shrines and nobody had ever seen waterfalls, and spaious layouts like this. I was smitten by it all and it added to the experience.
I share your desire for a better OD ratio on the hwy. Curious that with such a big and obviously powerful engine, Infiniti did not see fit to make 5th lower. I would prefer 2,000 rpm or less at 60. My departed TL type-S spun 2k rpm at 70, for criminy sake. This may be an advantage for the GS, with a 6-speed trans. Still, with no sport package on the GS the M45 at $50k with sport and more power is really tempting.
Yes, you can use those audio inputs to play an iPod through the stereo system. I asked the sales guy to show me how to turn on the stereo "AUX" input setting, which he did. Good iPod compatibility is a must for me. (As well as XM radio).
Two more things:
Those inputs are available only with the DVD audio or the DVD player options (either one will do).
Those inputs can be used for video as well as audio, on the center DVD screen or, (when the emergency brake is on), on the front Nav screen.
Pete
2) If you get the center DVD screen, is it unobstrusive when the screen is closed? Does it interfere with the sunroof in any way?
Thanks
I am really excited about the connectivity of the rear AV jacks. If anyone has ever connected an Ipod (or any other MP3 player for that matter), thru a tape deck or FM transmitter you will know that sound quality suffers. It will be very easy to connect headphone adapters with right and left stereo outs to the AV unit in the M's and have much better sound quality. This just gives the stereo system in the new M's along with all of its other features another star in my book.
The layout of the vehicle is what is most impressive - the voice activiated navigation system is easy to use and required no buttons to press except for the voice button on the steering wheel.
The studio 5.1 surround sound is something to behold. I could pick out each instrument with separation I've never experienced. It will blow you mind - and your ear drums if given a chance. Best audio system in or out of a car I've ever heard.
Leasing is made easier due to a residual well over 60% on a 39x12,000 mile contract. In the low 500 range for that lease with inceptions only - on the M35 nicely equipped.
My vote is definitely Infiniti in this vehicle class - competition is the BMW530i and 545i for M45, Benz S500, etc. No comparison for what you get for your money - power, looks, technology, and pure "inspiration!"
Yes, the DVD player is in the center console even if you order DVD audio without the overhead player.
And yes you can play DVDs on the nav screen when the emergency break is on. It looked very impressive.
Also, I'm sure someone will come up with a hack to get around the emergency break requirement if anyone wants that.
Pete
But, if the residual value of the two cars is relatively close, then losing the $15K is not acceptable.
Chrysler indeed has a unique car that is very "hot" at the moment. It makes me think back to the PT Cruiser which was also very hot for a few years, but now seems to be a dime a dozen and the residual value has probably dropped significantly. On the other hand, the G35, which seems to be a good benchmark for the M45, has excellent residual value, and will likely retain this value for a while. I hope that the M45 follows the trend of the G35 - which should be the case due to all of the favorable comparisons to industry leaders such as the BMW 545i.
Any comments
These are the residuals I have seen posted for the M45s recently - from IFS:
M45 Sedan (15,000 miles) 36 mo to 42 mo add 1% for 12K and 2% for 10K
24/71%
36/60%
39/59%
42/57%
M45 Sport (15,000 miles) 36 mo to 42 mo add 1% for 12K and 2% for 10K
24/71%
36/60%
39/59%
42/57%
Rates vary from model to term but nothing is over .00194
- Ray
Also looking seriously at the M45 . . .
Above some arbitrary number (in the sense that the # would likely be different for everyone), say $35K, most of us find ourselves faced with a “diminishing returns” situation.
The increasing cost of a vehicle buys additional good stuff. The central question / issue is whether or not the additional “stuff” (better this, more of that, additional equipment, etc.) is worth the additional $15K cost. To us.
To me the (some) additional cost, to the level of close to $50K, MAY be worth it to me. I will really not know until I have completed some negotiations.
As to the re-sale / trade-in value 2 or 3 or 4 years from now. The only way to be certain of that is with a lease. (See residuals posted above.) Otherwise any number of factors can influence these numbers. If gasoline doubles in cost (at the pump) over the next 4 years, for example, the M35 might hold better value as a percent of MSRP than an M45. And a Honda Hybrid better still.
Personally, I am reasonably frugal and conscientious about most large purchases (home, major appliances, etc.) – everything EXCEPT cars.
To me, it is worth more $$s to have a car that I enjoy more, the many hours / miles I spend in my car each year.
But that’s just my view.
YMMV.
- Ray
NOT recommending this view to anyone else . . .
I recently traded in my '99 Chrylser 300M (for an Acura TL). The 300M was a wonderful car, but (somewhat) worthless on trade. One salesman confided in me that on trade, almost every domestic nameplate car is considered a "dog." I got three different trade in quotes, none even close to "trade in" value from NADA or KBB. But I got a good deal on the TL with low financing and, eventually, so-so trade in value.
Book values don't matter in the real world. If they did, we'd pay "book value (MSRP?)" when we bought the new car (and who does that)! I'd have to believe an Infiniti will hold it's value better than a Chrylser.
A car is not an investment. If you can afford it, get the car you want. I knew the 300M wouldn't hold its value, but it is the car I wanted and have no regrets (yes, I still miss it...). Diggin' the TL, though!
'21 Dark Blue/Black Audi A7 PHEV (mine); '22 White/Beige BMW X3 (hers); '20 Estoril Blue/Oyster BMW M240xi 'Vert (Ours, read: hers in 'vert weather; mine during Nor'easters...)
After all, you start to lose money once you drive that baby out of the lot:-)
I would also add Corvette to the list.
My current choice has to be either M35X fully loaded or M45 Sport. I test drove the M35 last night. I like it a lot. A lot has been said. I will just add one thing about transmission. The transmission still hesitate to downshift somehow, yet only for very very short period of time. I think I was in a gray area.
I am waiting to test drive GS, then RL around April.
This is a great year for car buyers.
Not always true... Many antique cars are investments and worth many times their original MSRP. My 1958 Chevy is worth many times more then it's original brand new price. it has increased in value since I bought it. I could sell it tomorrow for a profit. I can't really see any of today's cars every doing that though.. except a few.