Because when you get up to the $50K plus class, it's less about the car itself and more about status. An "old" car doesn't portray "status." Leasing gives owners the opportunity to have the latest and greatest every 2 to 3 years without the hassle of selling/trading the old car and they don't have to put any money down on it.
The biggest and most important negative about a lease is when you sign on the line, you're STUCK for the duration of the lease. Then you have the problem of being limited in the number of miles you can drive it or face paying a penalty at lease turn-in.
I was one to think that leasing was the worst thing you could possibly do because I got burned on a lease with Toyota. I later found out that they had a class action lawsuit against them for shady lease practices during the time that I was leasing from them. That was almost 10 years ago. Now, I'm thinking just a little bit about leasing my next big ticket car. But if I go that route, I might as well go for the big guns and lease an E55 AMG! :-P :drool:
Yeah, I had a friend with a shady Toyota lease. Right out of college,he leased a 4runner. About 1-2 years later, I remember him telling me that he would never lease another car in his life. Over the years, all I've heard was negative stuff about leasing. But throughout this board, everyone seems to lease now. I went to my local Benz dealership; my saleslady said that over 70% of their clients lease. If we get the M35, the car will be primarily for my wife. We were all set to get the G35 until I found out about the new M's coming out. Once they came out I got all gung ho about getting that and I think it rubbed off on her. She really, really needs a new car. She backed her Toyota into a curb yesterday and damaged the muffler. I joked about that being her way to tell me she needed the rearview camera option on the M35. Anyhow, leasing may be a good option because as a physician, my wife's schedule won't allow her to put more than 12000 a year on any new ride. So besides sitting in the hospital's parking lot, the M35 may never see the light of day until an off weekend. However, if we do lease, I would still get the 15,000 just incase I want to do a little joy riding. She's not really into status, but still wants a nice car to call her own after rolling in her Toyota since 1997. Well, you guys have definitely put leasing on my mind, but if I purchase couldn't I just sell it in the private market for the higher value? I give it more thought though. We're not paying sticker price, so until the Infiniti dealers start to deal, we're in no hurry. Thanks
1. Buy it IN CASH -- you own it; it loses value like Enron stock not too far back, but you own it and you don't make additional monthly payments on it, but your bank account is smaller
2. Lease it with no money down with appropriate milage (39 months MAXIMUM)
3. Finance the car -- and unless you can get it for 0% this is the worst of the three.
Buy what appreciates, rent what depreciates. Americans are notorious for renting apartments and buying cars.
The other way to acquire a car, according to the millionaire next door kind of philosophy is acquire a young used and certified car (where the lion's share of the depreciation is usually the early depreciation) -- of course this kind of deal would be IDEAL if you could get a one year old certified and warranted used car at 0% interest and finance it -- dream on.
If, however, you KNOW you will, you can and you can afford to keep a car longer than 5 or 6 years, presumably the best way to acquire this kind of car is to pay cash and keep it. For then at year 5 when I am still paying (and on my second lease) your car is NOT worthless, works OK probably and my cash outlay has exceeded yours. Of course if you contemplate doing this without a warranty and the car you acquire is noted to be breathtakingly expensive to maintain, well -- not so much.
"Not to split hairs here but someone posted a link to the M's service manual. The recommended service interval was 3750 miles with 5000 being the normal."
:::laughing:::: You are correct sir. They do request more frequent oil/filter changes.
It's the problem visits that get annoying and it sounds as if you've figured out how to handle them with your E320. If I allowed Mercedes to change my oil every time I visited service with my 2003 SL500 I'd have fresh oil every 500 miles ::: laughing again...so as not to cry ::::
Just out of curiosity Rob, electrical problems with the E320?
"Thanks for the correction on the voice button. I hadn't actually tried it. I just assumed that was what it was for. Ooops."
You're welcome. I found out about it because I assumed the exact same thing you did. It seemed odd to me that there would be a button that did nothing more than repeat the last route voice guidance command given by the nav system although my G35 Coupe has a dedicated "Voice" button too.
I leased an Acura TL a few months ago, and feel I got the best of both worlds that you discuss in your post b/c I leased a 1-year old car.
I negotiated with a private seller and got the benefit of a year's depreciation, and then contracted with a private leasing company to buy the car at that price and lease it to me at the rates to which we had previously agreed. I'm very happy with the transaction.
Income??? The car is a 1997 that she has had since 1996 in college. A new car is well deserved. I'm not looking for additional reasons to buy an M. THe muffler on the Toyota will still be fixed and the car will become our new hooptie ride.
I'm of the opinion that it's almost never a good financial deal to lease. Even if you trade in your car every three years (an expensive hobby, I might add), it's usually better to buy, and then sell/trade-in.
The Tustin Infiniti internet department has quoted me $500 off in person - they are part of the Costco Program although they say the M is not part of that program yet. Did not really negotiate much harder because they didn't have what I wanted.
The Glendale Infiniti internet department has quoted me $1000 off by e-mail "the dealerships are really not discounting the newly arrived M35/45. However, in my effort to earn your business, I will gladly discount the 2006 Infiniti M35 $1000 (THIS WEEK ONLY!!!)". Again they didn't have the car I wanted so I didn't push it.
Hold firm, don't be in a hurry, wait until inventories increase.....there will be even better deals coming.
After searching through many dealers inventories at www.infiniti.com I found that none had the car I wanted - I might just be better off ordering exactly what I want. Does anyone know the ordering process and how long it takes. Salespersons are far more interested in having me buy what's on their lot rather than what I want.
I reached the same conclusion. This is suppose to be a luxury car. However we didn't like the stone interior. It would have been much better if the grey color was used under the dash, at the bottom of the seats, on the center console especially the arm rest. Just too much black where there should have been grey. The aluminum panels? Some like them I just thought that the stone/aluminum looked like they belonged in the G35 while the black/rosewood was more Q45 IMHO.
With all the glowing reviews (like the USA Today review posted in the Luxury Sedan Forum) I don't think Infiniti will be selling the M for very much under MSRP anytime soon, especially if the buzz continues.
The car is 'hot' right now and probably will be through the fall.
Unless BMW drops the bottom out on the pricing of the outgoing 530i's, or Audi starts cutting some ridiculous deals on the 3.2 (doubtful; see the numerous Audi marketing critiques by markcincinnatti) I think Infiniti dealers will stick with MSRP.
Then again, maybe: - The new 530xi will steal some of the M's thunder. - Rising oil prices and interest rates will drive down new car purchases. - Infiniti will find that dropping the price just a tad will rocket them past their 24,000 unit sales mark for the year.
Can you play DVD Audio CDs without getting the Entertainment system? The CD player does not seem to accept DVDs. Can you take the NAV DVD out and play Audio DVDs?
Also, anybody figured out a way to connect an iPOD
Most people lease a Mercedes, BMW, or Audi not because its necessarily a better deal. You can buy a Mercedes, especially one like a CLK500, and sell it for a few cents short of what you paid for it. People lease them because NOBODY wants to OWN one of these cars after the warranty runs out.
I've run several sets of numbers recently, and every time, if the comparison is between (a) 3 yr lease and (b) purchase then sell/trade after 3 years, then leasing wins, at least on highline cars like BMW or Infiniti. Assume your monthly is the same in both cases, so a purchase requires quite a bit down pmt.
I suppose it depends on the lease terms, but it is also important to note that a strong residual in a lease is often higher than you can sell the car for if purchased. Buy retail and sell wholesale is an expensive game to play.
"Can you play DVD Audio CDs without getting the Entertainment system?"
If you have purchased at least the Technology Package you can play back audio DVDs. The Tech package puts a DVD player in the front console. This unit will play audio or video DVDs.
You cannot play audio DVDs through the Nav system.
Arguing that leases are better than purchases using only three year comparisons is slightly disingenous. I suspect you were doing this comparison for yourself (or others who are planning on only having the car for three years). Very few people who purchase a car will turn around and sell it in three years (unless circumstances dictate otherwise or they have money to burn). Just look at the popularity of four and five year financing.
For those people who want/need a new car every two-four years, leasing might make sense. However, (to restate the obvious) you must have a very good idea of how many miles you will put on the car. A known daily commute might make this easy to figure out. Mileage overages add up fast (I got burned once, and once was enough).
I am planning on buying my M. The reasons are simple. One, I will probably drive it into the ground and let my daughter drive it as out third car when she turns sixteen (six years!). Second, while I drive about 12K miles/year to and from work, I am certain I will drive this car more--it will be far more fun than my current car, and it is larger, allowing us to use it for longer trips with the family (versus the SUV we use now). Third, it will likely be far more reliable than many other vehicles (with the exception maybe of Lexus and Acura) after the warranty expires.
I agree with an earlier post. The most economic sense is to find a two-year old certified used (pre-owned is such a euphemism) vehicle. Let the previous owner pay for all that rapid depreciation. But where is the fun in that?
Our last two cars were purchased. Before that, I leased five. While it is difficult to put a value on peace of mind, I really like knowing that I can drive the current cars as much or as little as I want and also knowing that I can keep them as long as I want. There is also the "feel good" factor when they are paid off. Not having a car payment is worth some mental well-being (as long as you don't think too hard about what you were paying vs a lease payment).
When I leased in the past, it was mostly on cars that I had to "settle" on (either in terms of cost or practicality). For that reason, leasing was actually a good thing, since I knew I would have to get a new car at a certain point. With the new M, I feel like I am finally getting to "choose". Hence my belief that I will drive this for quite a bit more that three years.
Most people when buying a car think that they'll keep it for a long time. However, within a couple years a bigger, better car comes out that starts the juices flowing again. Leasing gives the flexibility to shorten the trade cycle and get into to the new and improved models.
When considering a $45k+ car like the M, unless you're paying in full or putting a huge chunk down, you're stuck with a hefty balance even after a couple of years. With a lease you can walk away from it and not worry about having to pay it off, sell it, etc. to get the latest and greatest ride.
I do a lot of driving...at least 20K per year... Contrary to common reasoning...I lease...for the following reasons... 1)I have learned the hard way that there is virutally no used car market for any vehicle with close to 100K or more miles. There is no private market and dealers simply don't want them. Thus, any car I buy is almost worthless after four years....at least after 3 years and 60K on the car it is still worth something. 2)Warranties expire by 60K and repair costs on any luxury car are outrageous. Why risk owning that car... 3)If you can structure your business so that it leases the car...the tax implications are more favorable.... 4)If you love the car...you can always buy it in the end...if not you walk away... 5)You can usually increase your lease payments to add mileage (whether you use it or not) and then have a lower contracted residual value to purchase the car at the end of the lease. If you can work it through your business you would have the tax advantage of having the business pay the bulk of the depreciation, then use your personal funds to buy the car from your business at the end of the lease for a lesser price. 5)Often the leasing company does not want the car back. They will often negotiate at the end of the lease for you to keep the car, below the contracted residual price. 6)Driving is an expense, not an investment. Factor in potential repairs, what else you could be doing with your money, tax implications...to me it makes sense to lease even being a high mileage driver....
My wife and I -- to the best of my memory -- have NEVER purchased a car from a dealer's inventory. Now, it is NOT that we are against buying something off the lot -- it is just that there has never been a need for us to have to settle on a car. Now this is not some statement that is meant to suggest that when we were twenty somethings we could afford expensive cars -- that is not my point.
Leasing cars in our experience has never required us to "settle" is the message. We see no reduction of "choice" by virtue of leasing (vs owning).
My wife 2 nights ago custom ordered a new, not yet built BMW X3 with the exact colors, options and configuration she wanted. The lease was established up front -- the delivery will be some 75 to 90 days in the future. The lease is 15,000 miles per year, 36 months, no money (well, OK $250) down and an MSRP of $45,065 w/payment including tax $581. I don't know if this is a deal that couldn't be bettered. She is happy with the car and the deal and we're going from an Audi TT that was $41,000+ and with similar lease terms (in 2002) was $709 per month. We feel like we can "leave uncertainty" behind (the uncertainty that would linger if we kept the TT beyond the warranty), re-up with a new car, custom ordered to her specs and HOLY COW BATMAN -- reduce costs over $120 per month.
Objectivity is difficult with cars -- the adage rent what depreciates, buy what appreciates (big ticket, that is) seems to apply. Cars that most of us can afford are NOT INVESTMENTS, they are assets, true, assets that depreciate with alarming speed.
At this point, leasing makes sense (for us)-- of course perhaps, just perhaps, if Audi, BMW or some of the other Premium class cars would offer 0% interest, well, that could be interesting (just so long as extended factory warranties were available for purchase.)
I have a quote for a new M35x at this point for $677 per month for 39 months/ 15,000 miles and drive away cost about $1,300 (I have to put down a sec dep not being an Infiniti Loyalty recipient). With the Infiniti warranty and reputation, I should not have the car out of warranty and in about 35 months can begin the process all over again, order a new one at that time and then 3 months later get my new custom ordered car -- actually giving me the "fun" of buying the same car twice, first when I order then when I pick it up.
I couldn't agree more! I have NEVER leased a car since I typically keep my cars 5-7 years. Until recently, I was racking up 20k+ per year so it never made sense. Although now I only anticipate driving 12-15k per year, I am still going to purchase rather than lease for these reasons:
1) IMOH the financing costs built into a lease are very high.
2) Leasing may seem cheaper than buying, but you're mortgaging your future when you lease. After a few years of leasing a vehicle and making payments, you own nothing.
3) Most leases allow you to drive an average of 15,000 miles per year. If you exceed the limit, you have to pay a penalty. Who wants to worry about how many miles they put on their car-especially if it is fun to drive? What happens if you currently have a short commute of 10-20 miles one way, and you have to change jobs and end up with a commute of 25-40 miles one way?
4) You are locked into a lease regardless of changing circumstances. What if you lose your job and can not afford the payments? What if you end up with a car that is always in the garage? Granted it is under warranty, but who wants to spend all their time in the service department? If you want to end your lease early, you have to pay penalties.
5) If you lease and your car is totaled in an accident, you could be responsible for a giant gap between the amount the insurance company will pay and the stated residual in the lease. Sure, you could end up with a gap if you purchase, however if you put down 10-20% and have a good interest rate, I doubt you will be upside down in your payments.
6) Some of you have mentioned that you are always under warranty since you lease every 2-3 years, thus never having to pay for major repairs. I have found that even though I may pay for repairs after my car is no longer under warranty, the cost of the repairs per month are less than the cost of a new lease payment of $500-$700 per month.
7) I have found that SOME of the people I know end up leasing becasue they simply can not afford to purchase the car they want. If they only put 10% down on a $50K car, then their payments will probably be higher than a lease payment. For me, I would rather own a car that I can afford, than lease a car just to have a lower monthly payment.
Now, I realize that most of us buying a car such as the M, GS, BMW, Audi, etc. have very stable careers or at least are very financially stable, and most likely will not have to worry about life circumstances affecting our ability to make payments. HOWEVER, I had several friends in IT (I am not in IT myself) who were making very healthy 6-figure salaries in the late 90's and were out of jobs by 2001/2002. My point is that you never know when you might want to choose to down size or just not have a car payment.
I enjoy the peace of mind knowing that I own my car, I can drive wherever and whenever I want, I can sell it whenever I want, and at the end of 5 years, If I only have 60K miles on the car and I want to sell, I should still be able to get a healthy price for my car. Just my opinion......
Just came back from the dealer. Test drove the M35x for the 2nd time and liked it. This is now my top choice, with the RL also somewhat in the running and GS300 AWD out.
The dealer is willing to match the Costco deal posted earlier on this forum, i.e., $2.5k over invoice incl. the destination charge for any Ms on his lot. However, to get the exact color/option combo I want, he will have to get one of his cars trucked and exchanged for mine. He wants me to cover that freight cost of about $400 on top of the above deal and wait for the delivery for about 3-4 weeks. Since we first had a deal at $2.5k over invoice, I refused to budge and ended up walking out.
The other option is to order exactly what I want and wait 3-4 mos for delivery. However, during that time, I am hoping that the M will become available under the Nissan/Infiniti Vehicle Purchase Program that my employer participates in. That is the sweetest deal, less than 1% over invoice, plus the destination charge, but there is no guarantee as to when the M will become available under this program.
I am in no rush to purchase immediately but it would be nice to get a new set of wheels this spring.
marko7, you did the right thing by walking out. That $400 extra the dealer wanted to charge sounded very shady. Good for you for walking out. If you can wait, I'd suggest you do it. I'm sure the pricing will start getting better as the cars start to fill the dealer lot. Also, I'm sure by then your employer program will include this car as well. I'm like you, I can wait and although Costco's program of $2,500 is good, I don't like the idea of leaving $2,500 on the table. I'm finalizng my decision soon as well.
Ray, thanks for your comprehensive comments! I agree, but I think that Infiniti has an easy out on this one. Leave the final drive axel ratio as is, and leave the first four gears in the auto tranny the same. That would give you identical acceleration (up to about 130mph) as current cars. Simply change the fifth gear in the transmission to something lower numerically which would have the effect of reducing the final drive ratio. They could reduce the final drive ratio on the M45 from about 3.36 today to something like 2.70. This would cause fifth gear cruising RPM at 60 mph to drop from about 2500 to about 2000; and at 80 mph, from about 3300 RPM to about 2700. That should result in notably better cruising gas mileage and seems like a trade many of us would make since acceleration in the lower gears would be unaffected.
Purchased a M45 Sport, Graphite Ext., Stone Int., Nav, Journey Package, Full Size Spare, Splash Guards, Trunk Mat (can't believe it's an option). Purchase price $52,500. A little more than I had hoped, but $1,860 below the MSRP of 54,360. My approach was, "look, you're gonna have to start selling these below MSRP, so why not start now?" Applied for financing using eloan at 4.99%. The dealer beat that at 4.74%
Anyway, the car rocks! A similarly equipped BMW 545 was some $9k more. I feel like a got a good deal. Thank you to Edmunds and this forum!
Unfortunately, I do use Verizon. Number transfer to the car does not work because of their firmware modification to the phone. I understand, however, that you can get around that by re-flashing the phone to a different version of firmware. I'll let you know if that works.
I've also now paired a V551 to the car and all features work perfectly. The address book downloaded with no problems and the phone works great. Too bad it isn't my phone.
Verizon Wireless + Bluetooth = . There's a class action lawsuit against Verizon in california because Verizon crippled so many BT features of their V710.
There's a great forum on leasing questions in Edmunds in the Smart Shopper section called "Lease Questions - Ask Here". Car_man, who co-hosts it, is awesome. Check it out, and good luck.
I keep hearing that it is not "planned". I have heard at least two theories/rumors. One said that there is no "space" for the ATTESA system. This seems hard to believe since the FX45 is built on the previous generation FM platform (smaller). I think the other reason is more likely--that Infiniti thinks a 45x would not generate the demand (maybe from experience with the FX?). I think this leaves the door open, but I wouldn't hold my breath for the near future.
How many years was the G35 available before the 35x came out? Maybe that would approximate the time till the 45x arrives (meaning I think they will produce it eventually).
Just leased a 2006 M45 sport. I absolutely love the car. Im a long term Infiniti Q45 customer but prefer this to the 6 Q's I have had. I like the styling and all the technology, I got the Entertainment system, jourvey package and tech package. I like the way it drives and looks, I got it in black with the stone and aluminum interior which looks very smart.
I've read on several boards that there is no AWD for V8 planned due to lower volume expected on the V8 and I think I recall concerns about reliability with power.
New Audi A4 3.2 Cadillac SRX (I'm not certain this was a real contender) Infiniti G35x Mercedes C320 AWD BMW 325xi (when they came out in Sept)
She had even tested the Toureg and the Cayenne.
"On a lark. . ." she asked me to rent an SRX for a weekend trip to Pittsburgh and I asked if she was really seriously considering an SRX as her daily driver. Frustrated with the A4 at $684 per month for 36 months (although this would have been an improvement over her current TT at $709 per month) -- and seeing a new V8 SRX for $530 per month (but only 12,000 miles per year) -- she asked if one of my co-worker's BMW X5's "was any good."
I told her my friend liked the vehicle but thought it was way underpowered and only came with an automatic.
Now, despite all the apparent contradictions, she really did want a stick shift first.
So, I called the BMW salesrep we had met earlier and asked if there were any X3's with the big 6 with the stick shift that could be driven (I also asked if one could drive ONE with Sport and ONE without Sport package).
The BMW salesrep was able to accomodate us completely.
After the test drive the BMW rep told us that we could custom order a new X3 (in March) and that it would be built and shipped here in 75 to 90 days.
We took, oh about 50 test drives over two days (not really, but it seemed that way). The deal began at $610 for 36 months at 15,000 miles and drive away costs of first months payment and sec dep.
My wife countered: $575 and we have a deal.
The reply was $585.
My wife said, OK, I'll tell you in the morning. The response, this deal is good for only a few days because we have to get the car ordered. But there was no other "pressure" other than that, and I do not feel that this was pressure, the entire process was low key.
Fast forward to the next day -- two more test drives and I, the loyal and patient husband, configured the car on the web as we had discussed it with the rep.
Bla bla bla -- and I had overlooked Servotronic. The test reports I had vetted as part of this process said only a moron would not get Servotronic. I bought the story.
Servotronic was $250 and rather than redo the whole thing, I offered $250 upfront. They said they would call that cap cost reduction and residualize the car with the Servotronic and the car was now $581 per month for 36 months with a $600 sec dep and first months payment as driveaway (they had already taken and gotten the credit ap stuff taken care of 24 hours earlier).
Ta da -- a custom ordered X3 @ $45+K MSRP was my wife's car of choice after 3 Audi TT's in a row and multiple A4's, 90,s 4000S's and Fox's in a row before that.
A car as big (or as expensive) as a 5 was apparently never a serious contender (no matter how much she seemed to like the SRX).
I am tired of test driving for Pete's sake.
I am happy she did what she did.
Today, she told me, she would have gone for the A4 3.2 @ $44K if it wasn't $103 per month MORE than a $1,000 more MSRP'd BMW. Indeed the A4 would have "at that time" justified more than $581 per month -- but not $684. The monthly number was just too "out of proportion" -- and, with my hand raised to attest: the X3 with sport and all the toys mentioned does not give up THAT MUCH to the A4 in terms of its composure and feel -- it feels like a sports sedan, that is.
I can't wait for my 10% time behind the wheel.
Today we looked at the M35 at the Infiniti dealer -- get this:
New M35, 39 months, 12,000 miles, about $1,600 driveaway -- $499 per month.
Too bad, there is no way to know how this would track @ 15,000 miles and for an M35x.
My assumption is that it would equate to $665 per month. I already have an offer of $677 at 15,000 miles with similar drive-away; but I guess it can't hurt to ask if they will meet or beat the deal.
I re-evalutated a Bourbon interior, and I must say it is my fave.
I am considering getting the dealer installed aero kit added to my M45 sport. However, the dealer quoted me a price that is well above the price I see on the Infiniti web site. Has anyone purchased this option from a dealer and if so do you recall what they charged for this option? Also, are you pleased you bought this add on?
I test drove the M45 and the M35 back to back today. Both were the "Sport" versions. I must admit, the M35's engine was perky and could get up and go - real similar to my 2002 TL Type-S. The big difference for me with the M45 is that it delivers the power speed sooooo smoothly. The M35 was jerky in comparison (and only in comparison). It had to drop gears and really rev up the engine to get the same acceleration as the M45. I also liked the Sports versions of these cars. May not be for everyone, but for me, it was more to the sport side of sport-sedan.
Since I'm leasing - and only paying for the depreciation, I think I'll go with the M45. Just gave me that little extra adrenaline boost!
Both cars handled like a dream (especially compared to my FWD TL).
Hmm. We'll I guess if the little woman is happy, then you're happy. Still I have to admit I'm rather surprised she wouldnt rather have a 330xi. The one thing I do like about the TT is it has a fantastic interior, and the X3's looks like something that might come in a Nissan. I dont like any of BMW's new interiors, but at least the others you can sort of see where some of the money went. The X3's is painfully cost-gutted on the other hand. Oh well, its her car, not mine.
"Just out of curiosity Rob, electrical problems with the E320?"
Well, in 3 years (1.5 yrs ago) the passenger side fog light wiring harness corroded and needed to be replace. My car is garaged every night. About 6 months ago my BAS/ABS lights all came as the result of a failed module someplace. I'll lump that under electrical as well.
Other episodes from the past...My fuel gauge failed. I'll throw that under electrical. Do we count a burned out motor on the drivers head rest (I'm the only one that drives it and NEVER change the seating position...you gotta love that MTBF).
Comments
The biggest and most important negative about a lease is when you sign on the line, you're STUCK for the duration of the lease. Then you have the problem of being limited in the number of miles you can drive it or face paying a penalty at lease turn-in.
I was one to think that leasing was the worst thing you could possibly do because I got burned on a lease with Toyota. I later found out that they had a class action lawsuit against them for shady lease practices during the time that I was leasing from them. That was almost 10 years ago. Now, I'm thinking just a little bit about leasing my next big ticket car. But if I go that route, I might as well go for the big guns and lease an E55 AMG! :-P :drool:
If we get the M35, the car will be primarily for my wife. We were all set to get the G35 until I found out about the new M's coming out. Once they came out I got all gung ho about getting that and I think it rubbed off on her. She really, really needs a new car. She backed her Toyota into a curb yesterday and damaged the muffler. I joked about that being her way to tell me she needed the rearview camera option on the M35.
Anyhow, leasing may be a good option because as a physician, my wife's schedule won't allow her to put more than 12000 a year on any new ride. So besides sitting in the hospital's parking lot, the M35 may never see the light of day until an off weekend. However, if we do lease, I would still get the 15,000 just incase I want to do a little joy riding. She's not really into status, but still wants a nice car to call her own after rolling in her Toyota since 1997. Well, you guys have definitely put leasing on my mind, but if I purchase couldn't I just sell it in the private market for the higher value? I give it more thought though. We're not paying sticker price, so until the Infiniti dealers start to deal, we're in no hurry. Thanks
6.3 - 6.6 seconds.
Not sure on the fold down seat, I think someone in here said "no", but don't hold me to that.
1. Buy it IN CASH -- you own it; it loses value like Enron stock not too far back, but you own it and you don't make additional monthly payments on it, but your bank account is smaller
2. Lease it with no money down with appropriate milage (39 months MAXIMUM)
3. Finance the car -- and unless you can get it for 0% this is the worst of the three.
Buy what appreciates, rent what depreciates. Americans are notorious for renting apartments and buying cars.
The other way to acquire a car, according to the millionaire next door kind of philosophy is acquire a young used and certified car (where the lion's share of the depreciation is usually the early depreciation) -- of course this kind of deal would be IDEAL if you could get a one year old certified and warranted used car at 0% interest and finance it -- dream on.
If, however, you KNOW you will, you can and you can afford to keep a car longer than 5 or 6 years, presumably the best way to acquire this kind of car is to pay cash and keep it. For then at year 5 when I am still paying (and on my second lease) your car is NOT worthless, works OK probably and my cash outlay has exceeded yours. Of course if you contemplate doing this without a warranty and the car you acquire is noted to be breathtakingly expensive to maintain, well -- not so much.
:::laughing:::: You are correct sir. They do request more frequent oil/filter changes.
It's the problem visits that get annoying and it sounds as if you've figured out how to handle them with your E320. If I allowed Mercedes to change my oil every time I visited service with my 2003 SL500 I'd have fresh oil every 500 miles ::: laughing again...so as not to cry ::::
Just out of curiosity Rob, electrical problems with the E320?
You're welcome. I found out about it because I assumed the exact same thing you did. It seemed odd to me that there would be a button that did nothing more than repeat the last route voice guidance command given by the nav system although my G35 Coupe has a dedicated "Voice" button too.
I negotiated with a private seller and got the benefit of a year's depreciation, and then contracted with a private leasing company to buy the car at that price and lease it to me at the rates to which we had previously agreed. I'm very happy with the transaction.
She backed her Toyota into a curb yesterday and damaged the muffler. ...
Wow! I can't wait to be making that kind of income!
Wife: Honey, my car needs new tires.
Me: Don't worry about it, sweety. We'll just buy another car!
tayl0rd.....
"Wow! I can't wait to be making that kind of income!"
May be when you finish an addtitonal 7 years+ of post college schooling and work 60 hrs/wk.
Individual situations can vary, of course.
And let's not forget about those student loans....
The Glendale Infiniti internet department has quoted me $1000 off by e-mail "the dealerships are really not discounting the newly arrived M35/45. However, in my effort to earn your business, I will gladly discount the 2006 Infiniti M35 $1000 (THIS WEEK ONLY!!!)". Again they didn't have the car I wanted so I didn't push it.
Hold firm, don't be in a hurry, wait until inventories increase.....there will be even better deals coming.
The car is 'hot' right now and probably will be through the fall.
Unless BMW drops the bottom out on the pricing of the outgoing 530i's, or Audi starts cutting some ridiculous deals on the 3.2 (doubtful; see the numerous Audi marketing critiques by markcincinnatti) I think Infiniti dealers will stick with MSRP.
Then again, maybe:
- The new 530xi will steal some of the M's thunder.
- Rising oil prices and interest rates will drive down new car purchases.
- Infiniti will find that dropping the price just a tad will rocket them past their 24,000 unit sales mark for the year.
??? Who knows -- hope so.
Also, anybody figured out a way to connect an iPOD
I suppose it depends on the lease terms, but it is also important to note that a strong residual in a lease is often higher than you can sell the car for if purchased. Buy retail and sell wholesale is an expensive game to play.
If you have purchased at least the Technology Package you can play back audio DVDs. The Tech package puts a DVD player in the front console. This unit will play audio or video DVDs.
You cannot play audio DVDs through the Nav system.
For those people who want/need a new car every two-four years, leasing might make sense. However, (to restate the obvious) you must have a very good idea of how many miles you will put on the car. A known daily commute might make this easy to figure out. Mileage overages add up fast (I got burned once, and once was enough).
I am planning on buying my M. The reasons are simple. One, I will probably drive it into the ground and let my daughter drive it as out third car when she turns sixteen (six years!). Second, while I drive about 12K miles/year to and from work, I am certain I will drive this car more--it will be far more fun than my current car, and it is larger, allowing us to use it for longer trips with the family (versus the SUV we use now). Third, it will likely be far more reliable than many other vehicles (with the exception maybe of Lexus and Acura) after the warranty expires.
I agree with an earlier post. The most economic sense is to find a two-year old certified used (pre-owned is such a euphemism) vehicle. Let the previous owner pay for all that rapid depreciation. But where is the fun in that?
Our last two cars were purchased. Before that, I leased five. While it is difficult to put a value on peace of mind, I really like knowing that I can drive the current cars as much or as little as I want and also knowing that I can keep them as long as I want. There is also the "feel good" factor when they are paid off. Not having a car payment is worth some mental well-being (as long as you don't think too hard about what you were paying vs a lease payment).
When I leased in the past, it was mostly on cars that I had to "settle" on (either in terms of cost or practicality). For that reason, leasing was actually a good thing, since I knew I would have to get a new car at a certain point. With the new M, I feel like I am finally getting to "choose". Hence my belief that I will drive this for quite a bit more that three years.
When considering a $45k+ car like the M, unless you're paying in full or putting a huge chunk down, you're stuck with a hefty balance even after a couple of years. With a lease you can walk away from it and not worry about having to pay it off, sell it, etc. to get the latest and greatest ride.
Contrary to common reasoning...I lease...for the following reasons...
1)I have learned the hard way that there is virutally no used car market for any vehicle with close to 100K or more miles. There is no private market and dealers simply don't want them. Thus, any car I buy is almost worthless after four years....at least after 3 years and 60K on the car it is still worth something.
2)Warranties expire by 60K and repair costs on any luxury car are outrageous. Why risk owning that car...
3)If you can structure your business so that it leases the car...the tax implications are more favorable....
4)If you love the car...you can always buy it in the end...if not you walk away...
5)You can usually increase your lease payments to add mileage (whether you use it or not) and then have a lower contracted residual value to purchase the car at the end of the lease. If you can work it through your business you would have the tax advantage of having the business pay the bulk of the depreciation, then use your personal funds to buy the car from your business at the end of the lease for a lesser price.
5)Often the leasing company does not want the car back. They will often negotiate at the end of the lease for you to keep the car, below the contracted residual price.
6)Driving is an expense, not an investment. Factor in potential repairs, what else you could be doing with your money, tax implications...to me it makes sense to lease even being a high mileage driver....
Just my thoughts....
Leasing cars in our experience has never required us to "settle" is the message. We see no reduction of "choice" by virtue of leasing (vs owning).
My wife 2 nights ago custom ordered a new, not yet built BMW X3 with the exact colors, options and configuration she wanted. The lease was established up front -- the delivery will be some 75 to 90 days in the future. The lease is 15,000 miles per year, 36 months, no money (well, OK $250) down and an MSRP of $45,065 w/payment including tax $581. I don't know if this is a deal that couldn't be bettered. She is happy with the car and the deal and we're going from an Audi TT that was $41,000+ and with similar lease terms (in 2002) was $709 per month. We feel like we can "leave uncertainty" behind (the uncertainty that would linger if we kept the TT beyond the warranty), re-up with a new car, custom ordered to her specs and HOLY COW BATMAN -- reduce costs over $120 per month.
Objectivity is difficult with cars -- the adage rent what depreciates, buy what appreciates (big ticket, that is) seems to apply. Cars that most of us can afford are NOT INVESTMENTS, they are assets, true, assets that depreciate with alarming speed.
At this point, leasing makes sense (for us)-- of course perhaps, just perhaps, if Audi, BMW or some of the other Premium class cars would offer 0% interest, well, that could be interesting (just so long as extended factory warranties were available for purchase.)
I have a quote for a new M35x at this point for $677 per month for 39 months/ 15,000 miles and drive away cost about $1,300 (I have to put down a sec dep not being an Infiniti Loyalty recipient). With the Infiniti warranty and reputation, I should not have the car out of warranty and in about 35 months can begin the process all over again, order a new one at that time and then 3 months later get my new custom ordered car -- actually giving me the "fun" of buying the same car twice, first when I order then when I pick it up.
Leasing forever.
Your milage may differ.
To each his own.
Waste not, want not.
Platitudes R Us!
1) IMOH the financing costs built into a lease are very high.
2) Leasing may seem cheaper than buying, but you're mortgaging your future when you lease. After a few years of leasing a vehicle and making payments, you own nothing.
3) Most leases allow you to drive an average of 15,000 miles per year. If you exceed the limit, you have to pay a penalty. Who wants to worry about how many miles they put on their car-especially if it is fun to drive? What happens if you currently have a short commute of 10-20 miles one way, and you have to change jobs and end up with a commute of 25-40 miles one way?
4) You are locked into a lease regardless of changing circumstances. What if you lose your job and can not afford the payments? What if you end up with a car that is always in the garage? Granted it is under warranty, but who wants to spend all their time in the service department? If you want to end your lease early, you have to pay penalties.
5) If you lease and your car is totaled in an accident, you could be responsible for a giant gap between the amount the insurance company will pay and the stated residual in the lease. Sure, you could end up with a gap if you purchase, however if you put down 10-20% and have a good interest rate, I doubt you will be upside down in your payments.
6) Some of you have mentioned that you are always under warranty since you lease every 2-3 years, thus never having to pay for major repairs. I have found that even though I may pay for repairs after my car is no longer under warranty, the cost of the repairs per month are less than the cost of a new lease payment of $500-$700 per month.
7) I have found that SOME of the people I know end up leasing becasue they simply can not afford to purchase the car they want. If they only put 10% down on a $50K car, then their payments will probably be higher than a lease payment. For me, I would rather own a car that I can afford, than lease a car just to have a lower monthly payment.
Now, I realize that most of us buying a car such as the M, GS, BMW, Audi, etc. have very stable careers or at least are very financially stable, and most likely will not have to worry about life circumstances affecting our ability to make payments. HOWEVER, I had several friends in IT (I am not in IT myself) who were making very healthy 6-figure salaries in the late 90's and were out of jobs by 2001/2002. My point is that you never know when you might want to choose to down size or just not have a car payment.
I enjoy the peace of mind knowing that I own my car, I can drive wherever and whenever I want, I can sell it whenever I want, and at the end of 5 years, If I only have 60K miles on the car and I want to sell, I should still be able to get a healthy price for my car. Just my opinion......
The dealer is willing to match the Costco deal posted earlier on this forum, i.e., $2.5k over invoice incl. the destination charge for any Ms on his lot. However, to get the exact color/option combo I want, he will have to get one of his cars trucked and exchanged for mine. He wants me to cover that freight cost of about $400 on top of the above deal and wait for the delivery for about 3-4 weeks. Since we first had a deal at $2.5k over invoice, I refused to budge and ended up walking out.
The other option is to order exactly what I want and wait 3-4 mos for delivery. However, during that time, I am hoping that the M will become available under the Nissan/Infiniti Vehicle Purchase Program that my employer participates in. That is the sweetest deal, less than 1% over invoice, plus the destination charge, but there is no guarantee as to when the M will become available under this program.
I am in no rush to purchase immediately but it would be nice to get a new set of wheels this spring.
Any suggestions on what I should do?
Anyway, the car rocks! A similarly equipped BMW 545 was some $9k more. I feel like a got a good deal. Thank you to Edmunds and this forum!
Unfortunately, I do use Verizon. Number transfer to the car does not work because of their firmware modification to the phone. I understand, however, that you can get around that by re-flashing the phone to a different version of firmware. I'll let you know if that works.
I've also now paired a V551 to the car and all features work perfectly. The address book downloaded with no problems and the phone works great. Too bad it isn't my phone.
36 month 61% residual .00217 money factor
39 month 60% residual .00219 money factor
How many years was the G35 available before the 35x came out? Maybe that would approximate the time till the 45x arrives (meaning I think they will produce it eventually).
Stay tuned or ask any questions you may have.
New Audi A4 3.2
Cadillac SRX (I'm not certain this was a real contender)
Infiniti G35x
Mercedes C320 AWD
BMW 325xi (when they came out in Sept)
She had even tested the Toureg and the Cayenne.
"On a lark. . ." she asked me to rent an SRX for a weekend trip to Pittsburgh and I asked if she was really seriously considering an SRX as her daily driver. Frustrated with the A4 at $684 per month for 36 months (although this would have been an improvement over her current TT at $709 per month) -- and seeing a new V8 SRX for $530 per month (but only 12,000 miles per year) -- she asked if one of my co-worker's BMW X5's "was any good."
I told her my friend liked the vehicle but thought it was way underpowered and only came with an automatic.
Now, despite all the apparent contradictions, she really did want a stick shift first.
So, I called the BMW salesrep we had met earlier and asked if there were any X3's with the big 6 with the stick shift that could be driven (I also asked if one could drive ONE with Sport and ONE without Sport package).
The BMW salesrep was able to accomodate us completely.
After the test drive the BMW rep told us that we could custom order a new X3 (in March) and that it would be built and shipped here in 75 to 90 days.
We took, oh about 50 test drives over two days (not really, but it seemed that way). The deal began at $610 for 36 months at 15,000 miles and drive away costs of first months payment and sec dep.
My wife countered: $575 and we have a deal.
The reply was $585.
My wife said, OK, I'll tell you in the morning. The response, this deal is good for only a few days because we have to get the car ordered. But there was no other "pressure" other than that, and I do not feel that this was pressure, the entire process was low key.
Fast forward to the next day -- two more test drives and I, the loyal and patient husband, configured the car on the web as we had discussed it with the rep.
Bla bla bla -- and I had overlooked Servotronic. The test reports I had vetted as part of this process said only a moron would not get Servotronic. I bought the story.
Servotronic was $250 and rather than redo the whole thing, I offered $250 upfront. They said they would call that cap cost reduction and residualize the car with the Servotronic and the car was now $581 per month for 36 months with a $600 sec dep and first months payment as driveaway (they had already taken and gotten the credit ap stuff taken care of 24 hours earlier).
Ta da -- a custom ordered X3 @ $45+K MSRP was my wife's car of choice after 3 Audi TT's in a row and multiple A4's, 90,s 4000S's and Fox's in a row before that.
A car as big (or as expensive) as a 5 was apparently never a serious contender (no matter how much she seemed to like the SRX).
I am tired of test driving for Pete's sake.
I am happy she did what she did.
Today, she told me, she would have gone for the A4 3.2 @ $44K if it wasn't $103 per month MORE than a $1,000 more MSRP'd BMW. Indeed the A4 would have "at that time" justified more than $581 per month -- but not $684. The monthly number was just too "out of proportion" -- and, with my hand raised to attest: the X3 with sport and all the toys mentioned does not give up THAT MUCH to the A4 in terms of its composure and feel -- it feels like a sports sedan, that is.
I can't wait for my 10% time behind the wheel.
Today we looked at the M35 at the Infiniti dealer -- get this:
New M35, 39 months, 12,000 miles, about $1,600 driveaway -- $499 per month.
Too bad, there is no way to know how this would track @ 15,000 miles and for an M35x.
My assumption is that it would equate to $665 per month. I already have an offer of $677 at 15,000 miles with similar drive-away; but I guess it can't hurt to ask if they will meet or beat the deal.
I re-evalutated a Bourbon interior, and I must say it is my fave.
I'm with you on the A4 - have been thinking about it - but the leasing (as we have been discussing in the other forum) isn't particularly attractive.
I think I'd jump in a heartbeat on an M35x @ 12k miles for $500/month.
Right now I'm seriously thinking G35x - I can't entirely rationalize the larger more expensive M35x as I am usually in the car alone.
Since I'm leasing - and only paying for the depreciation, I think I'll go with the M45. Just gave me that little extra adrenaline boost!
Both cars handled like a dream (especially compared to my FWD TL).
Well, in 3 years (1.5 yrs ago) the passenger side fog light wiring harness corroded and needed to be replace. My car is garaged every night. About 6 months ago my BAS/ABS lights all came as the result of a failed module someplace. I'll lump that under electrical as well.
Other episodes from the past...My fuel gauge failed. I'll throw that under electrical. Do we count a burned out motor on the drivers head rest (I'm the only one that drives it and NEVER change the seating position...you gotta love that MTBF).
I think that's about it.
Regards,
BigRob.