Thanks Cybersol. I am leaning toward the Infiniti with Technology and Journey package for the same price as the Acura. Have not decided and will let the financials dictate. Going to get firm quotes for both this or next week and look at lease vs. finance vs. purchase. I think the M carries better residual values and helps on the leasing....
i checked some car-financing sites online and they all assigned a higher residual to the Infiniti. I also spoke with some Acura owners who have all said that for some reason, the Acura "RL" has trouble holding its value in the aftermarket.
That is the exact configuration I am looking. Infiniti.com shows that as $56,560 including destination. Any how I have not been able to test drive one at night and am wondering if all of those lighted buttons on the dash cause distracting reflections on the windshield. Also how was your experience with the dealer? I one I am working with really sucks.
She ordered the car with a black exterior and the terracotta leather interior and with the sport package the interior is STRIKING.
It seems like so many of the Bimmers at the dealer were black, metallic black, silver, darker silver, smoke, etc and every one of them had a black on black interior.
The things are depressing. The interior of this X3 does not, to our eyes look cheap -- indeed in terra cotta it looks "smashing!"
And, you are right, it IS her car and she seems delighted. I would not have any problem with this car personally either -- the sport package really improves things, and compared with the the TT, the ride is NOT harsh, despite some of the test reports of the first year's offerings.
And with all the lux toys and uplevel sound system, I think you might find it "not bad."
Now, I like Audi interiors, period -- and the new BMW (3 series thus far) interiors look pretty nice too (as long as they're not black!)
DVD navigation, too, will be a godsend, the CD nav in my allroad works great but I have been noticing how long it takes to calculate a route -- the new DVD systems are much faster.
Sorry but almost every statement here is completely wrong. Let's go through them:
1) IMOH the financing costs built into a lease are very high. Wrong.
If you know how to look at the money factor then you can see what your interest rate is. I had a .0010 money factor on a 5 series which is 2.4% interest rate. Bet you don't get that low on a luxury car.
2) Leasing may seem cheaper than buying, but you're mortgaging your future when you lease. After a few years of leasing a vehicle and making payments, you own nothing. WRONG AGAIN!
All you pay in a lease is the same thing you pay when you buy. Interest and depreciation. They are speculating on what the car is worth 3 years from now. When you buy a car in essence you are paying the total down over 5 years. Difference in leasing is I have a guarantee. I can walk away without having to find a buyer after 3 years. You can't. After 3 years how many cars are worth more than you owe on the loan? Not many.
3) Most leases allow you to drive an average of 15,000 miles per year. If you exceed the limit, you have to pay a penalty. Who wants to worry about how many miles they put on their car-especially if it is fun to drive? What happens if you currently have a short commute of 10-20 miles one way, and you have to change jobs and end up with a commute of 25-40 miles one way? Wrong again.
You can buy extra miles at any time during your lease. You can lease a car and drive 10K, 12K, 15K, 18K, or 20K per year. Completeley negotiable.
4) You are locked into a lease regardless of changing circumstances. What if you lose your job and can not afford the payments? What if you end up with a car that is always in the garage? Granted it is under warranty, but who wants to spend all their time in the service department? If you want to end your lease early, you have to pay penalties.
If you are leasing a luxury car then you get a loaner. Second if I have a car that has problems, I know that this car is gone after 3 years. You do not. You are stuck with a problem car. If you lose your job you are stuck wih a loan still. You can get rid of a lease through leasetrader if you want.
5) If you lease and your car is totaled in an accident, you could be responsible for a giant gap between the amount the insurance company will pay and the stated residual in the lease. Sure, you could end up with a gap if you purchase, however if you put down 10-20% and have a good interest rate, I doubt you will be upside down in your payments
THis is what gap insurance is for.
6) Some of you have mentioned that you are always under warranty since you lease every 2-3 years, thus never having to pay for major repairs. I have found that even though I may pay for repairs after my car is no longer under warranty, the cost of the repairs per month are less than the cost of a new lease payment of $500-$700 per month.
But after those 3 years you are paying for repairs on an lod car and I am driving a brand new car.
I do not understand why anyone would buy a car. You are throwing money away. Take a $60,000 car. For arguments sake say that you are leasing and buying at 0%. You are spending $1,000 a month paying for a heavily depreciating asset. Most luxury cars are worth about 60% after 3 years. TO lease that same car it is $660/month. I could take the extra $340/month and make at least 6-10% per year return on it. I would be saving about $4,100/year and get another $300 in interest. After 5 years I have $22,000 and am driving a new car. You have a car you are driving that is'nt going to be worth close to $22,000 and you still have to go thru the pain of selling it.
Picked up an M45 sport w/ journey + tech on Sunday. Researched quite a bit. Closest competitor for me was BMW 545 -- both great cars, but cost difference didn't seem justifiable, even factoring in BMW's discounts (and M45's lack thereof). Appreciated learning much about the cars and dealings through these forums. Thanks to all! Dealer experience was very positive! More on that in a future post.
Really, really glad I got the sport pkg. Yes, it is noticeably stiffer, but not too much, and makes the 4k pound car feel quite nimble.
Going in tomorrow after work for M45 training class Lots of tech in the tech pkg!
Didn't do extensive listening, but did drive one with journey pkg and no tech pkg, which meant the std Bose stereo (not 5.1 surround as in tech pkg). I was not too thrilled with the audio (good, but not great), but so far am pleasantly surprised with the upgraded audio that is part of the tech pkg. Was never thrilled with the Bose in my '03 Corvette, but this one seems much better.
One minor complaint - found that the main display (map, radio, etc.) and the compass in the mirror were both difficult to read in daylight with sunglasses on.
I hesitate to say much more about the car right now... want to wait til I can stop smiling!!!
"I do not understand why anyone would buy a car. You are throwing money away."
A blanket statement like this doesn't make sense. There are too many variables, such as lease terms, financing rates, how much you have to pay for extra miles, how much gap insurance is, the residual, the resale value, etc.
I find that the lease terms on most cars are not favorable to buy then sell. Of course, there are leasing deals out there in which this is not the case.
Leasing and buying is not the right topic of discussion here. Let me make it short.
I agree with jrock65. The formula is extremely complicated. I once read a report on comparison of leasing, buying and getting a load. They all came out to be about the same in normal conditions. The differences are in when things veer away from being normal....
In short, my BMW540iA just failed again this morning. This is probably the 15th bugs I had after owning it for more than 6 years. I regret every minute now that I bought it. All my Japanese cars had at most 1 bug after 6-7 years of ownership.
My new motto is: "Buy Japanese cars, lease German.", which is very different from what Warren Buffet said, "Buy what appreciates, lease what depreciates." I guess Warren is all for leasing automobiles. (other than some classics)
You are accumulating liability with leasing and financing. Just think about what will happen when you are downzised. One more thing for people to think about is "the financial maturity does not go to people who have things most, but to people who need less."
You have saved me the time and trouble of writing my similar response -- cars are an expense; leasing is a way to minimize risk and, to echo you're sentiments, the BMW my wife just custom ordered is coming with a lease with a money factor that equates to an interest rate of 1.9%. True, she might have been able to buy a new Chyrsler product for 0% interest and that might work if in her mind the Chrysler and the BMW were interchangeable.
Most people hone in on a type of car (Premium in this case), a price range and a term of "use" (regardless of buy, lease or finance). With leasing you do have the advantages you pointed out AND all the same disadvantages of ownership if, heaven forbid, you lose your situation and have to bail out early. Anyway you "use" the car the depreciation really socks it to you in the early year or two of "ownership."
Even if I agreed with you on this aesthetic point, it wouldn't really matter much -- my wife likes it. After three TT's in a row (and I also like their interiors), I have grown a bit tired of the grey on grey on grey look (her interiors were always aviator grey) -- no wood, no warmth that is. But, she liked the TT interior too.
The new X3 has birch wood, very nice grained leather and sport seats -- but I'm "spoiled by Audis" and can understand why someone might not care for the X3 nor think it was the pinnacle of interior design.
On the other hand, I do think the current G35x needs something to elevate it -- yet, after seeing the first attempt at an interior in the G35's, I see a big time improvement.
Currently I "appreciate" the look of the interior of the A4 (2005.5), the C320 Mercedes (2005) and the pictures of the new 2006 BMW 3 series -- and of course the Infiniti M35x.
The BMW my wife ordered has me thinking -- I am slightly torn (since I still have a few weeks to place an order) between the A4 (and maybe the A6), the M35x and the "pictures" of the new BMW 330.
I had never even considered a BMW until I actually went through the past several days of test driving, and I still think the 5 series looks like a Pontiac with a big butt -- but the new 3 looks good as does the A4 (and hopefully I will have the ability to configure an A4 3.2 with S-Line and manual transmission.)
As I said earlier, if the trigger were pulled TODAY, it would be an M35x. Education (and this TH) may change this.
NB: the Infiniti M35 is $1,000 down, $499 month, 39 months 12,000 / year Journey only. There is one dealer here in Cincinnati at this time. I don't know if this is a good deal or not -- it "got my attention" however.
Since it was NOT an "x" and not 15,000 miles, I didn't want to get too excited, but this price "certainly" draws a crowd on a Sunday afternoon, to peer in the window of the gleaming black M with the Bourbon interior.
Nice pic, shows more depth than most of pics I've seen of the M. The car has contours that look much better in person than in print.
The bourbon interior is nice, but I don't know if it goes very well with the Rosewood (so far, the only wood offered.) I think I'd need to take the car out for a day to decide if bourbon is the way to go.
Has anyone else checked out the black interior and noticed the contrast with the very light-colored ceiling upholstery? Dramatic.
Also - the aluminum looks great in person, more toned down than pics might have you believe. Too bad it's only available on the sport models, thus excluding the M35x.
Yeah the first G was terrible inside. I drove an '03 coupe and it was fun, but afterwards I said to the salesman, if they want to stop people from buying a 330Ci with this car, Nissan has GOT to do better. The '05 car is much better, particularly with the wood trim. I also like that the sedan's "lite-brite" tail lights were replaced for the coupe versions, much more attractive. Thats a sexy M up there. I agree with Senneca, an initial year BMW would make me nervous. Then again, I'm the type of person that buys cars and keeps them for at least 5 years or so.
sennaca01, can you put up a shot of the front interior of the bourbon interior? If I get the M45, black w/ bourbon is my color selection and I want to know what it will look in the front seats with the wood and whatnot.
I think that the rosewood varies in color from vehicle to vehicle ever so slightly. I've been in at least 3 different M35x's with blk/rswd combo, and I swear that the wood looks lighter or darker in one than the other. Saw each during the day under comparable conditions, but who knows, maybe it's just me.
Wonder how the dealer will respond to that order request: "I'll take the black w/ rosewood, and make sure that the wood is on the darker side."
Does anyone know if matte wood requires any special care (vs. lacquered?)
I have not noticed any distracting reflections on the windshield at night. The Nav dims when its dark or when the headlights go on. Believe me, coming from a 98 GS400 with no Nav, all these bells and whistles on the M45 are quite distracting enough. I can place calls with my cell phone using bluetooth, find and calculate the time and distance to a desination, adjust the temperature of the cabin, and even check the tire pressure, all just by voice activation. Oh yeah, the car handles like a dream too and really rips when you jump on the gas!
As for the dealer, I was working with about 3 from my area. I used the infiniti.com website to locate the car I wanted and the dealership where it was located. Then, I just kinda of played one off the other. I am sure the dealers are looking for good sales numbers this month, just hang in there and keep asking them, "why don't you want to sell me this car?"
I think you are correct regarding inventories beginning to build a bit and sales projections being perhaps somewhat agressive.
The M cars are generating solid interest and rightly so but I think gas mileage may cause some to at least think twice (I know the additional cost may not be that great in relative terms but many buyers just want a car that is more fuel efficient. Also, there are several alternatives - 3 and 5 series, E320, etc that get better mileage). New 3 series is interesting.
I think M sales may be solid but not "off the charts" because I have begun to see lots more TV and print advertising. I sensed the same trend for the Acura RL (which had more issues in my view) when its launch began to falter. I just got a call from the Acura dealer today saying they have plenty of colors and are ready to deal.
Think the M will do much better than the RL but would not be surprised to see dealers come off MSRP by a solid amount soon. I don't think Infiniti dealers are generally as stubborn as some other dealers in trying to cling to MSRP and they have more money to work with on the cars.
I have to say I like the look of this car. I finally got to see one in traffic, which imo is the best way to judge a car's looks. Most cars look pretty good on the showroom/autoshow floor. It was a non sport M35 model. The wheels on the non sport are very classy and my previous fears about the car looking to boy-racer were unfounded in this sighting. I still think the sport version is a little too loud for the segment, that it needs to be toned down some. The regular models though are pretty good looking, it looks better than the G35 Sedans thats for sure.
Thanks for taking that photo. I think the bourbon is very "rich" looking, and it's a great shade. Looks very similar to what I got in my '04 TL. Not so dark that it'll bake in the summer, and not so light that it'll show every mark.
That being said, there's an awful lot of black. I understand two-tone can look nice, and many cars keep the dash 1 color regardless of the interior/exterior (I think it's done to save on costs more than for looks), but it looks like regardless of the color choice, the whole floor, center console and doors are black. At least it kind of looks like the roof and pillars will be bourbon(right?).
I bet if the whole thing were bourbon, the rosewood would look really nice. I can see how some might think the bourbon (or anything, but black for that matter) with rosewood and black and silver trim is a little busy.
I think the G35 is horribly tacky with its silver trim - way overdone. In person the car in your photo might look nice (eclectic?) - hard to tell from a photo. Thanks again, and I hope I didn't offend anyone who likes this color scheme. The great thing about opinions is everyone's got 1 (or 2)!!!
Thanks for the photo, senneca01. It's still difficult to tell how much I'd like it from that angle. And all that plastic still covering some important parts doesn't help.
At any rate, bourbon is my color of choice. I was going to get a new Audi A6 4.2 in black w/ amaretto interior (same colors). What's with the references to alcoholic beverages in interior colors? Are manufacturers trying to send us some subliminal messages?
To state the interior of an X3 is "smashing" or "striking" would be a gross overstatement. The X3 is a perfect example of the way not to go when adopting cost reductions in the manufacture process. The plastic they use to form the dash is approximately 18% cheaper then that found in the 3 series (They texture this plastic to give it an upscale look), along with a cheaper (thinner mil) of leather, and it's Ford Escape like plastic body cladding, good choice in going with a Black exterior though. You would think BMW would learn a lesson from Lexus when they tried the same cost cutting with the 2nd generation ES300, they quickly moved away from that and used the same leather through out it's entire line.
Again it's not an X3 forum, it is the only x-over vehicle currently offered in it's niche ( that handles/drives German) and it's not your car....so three pluses there. Although a 3-series wagon would be the better choice, unless the higher driving position is a concern.
As far as the M35/M45, I would never have considered Infiniti until this car came along. The picture above with the black interior w/ rosewood, it truly "STRIKING". The contrast is what catches the eye, and the piping on the seat shows Infiniti is paying close attention to detail. The one knock on Infiniti through our the years has been it's copy-cat persona. Which was evident in the 2nd generation Q45, borrow the grill from Lincoln, interior from Lexus, etc. I'm hoping they are not trying to do the same now? Styling cues look BMWish, along with an IDrive type feature, the "Infiniti controller"??? Any on you that own or have test driven the M and a BMW played with both IDrive and the Infinti version? Does Infinti's version operate better, differently, etc. This feature is a definite turn off for any BMW equipped with it.
The dash (or at least under the dash), interior door trim, and center console colors vary for the interior trim colors. The bourbon, stone, and graphite interiors have dark plastic in these areas while the wheat have a beige/taupe/tan plastic. All color schemes have a light gray headliner (includes the pillars).
I haven't purchased from them yet (just test drives), but I hear they are a good dealership, and they seem to have a decent reputation in town.
I'm thinking of buying an M45 from them this year. Waiting for them to get one in to check it out.
They also sell Lexus there, but my test drive of a GS300 was no where near as good as the G35S. In fact, it's hard to believe, but the GS300 seemed way too much like the new Avalon, when I drove them back-to-back; overboosted steering, and fairly vague handling, and the interiors of the two were very similar in their basic construction, yet the Avalon had better front seat adjustment and much larger back seat area. I was also amazed that laser cruise is only available on the GS430, but you can get it on the Avalon.
BTW, I still haven't found a Japanese car that handles as tight and confidently as a Volvo S60R, or has as good seats, but that is another story.
Its supposed to be much better than iDrive. Every automaker has seen the horrible press iDrive has gotten and has been careful to fall into the same trap.
The main reason that leasing is typically the most expensive way to acquire a vehicle, is that by leasing you are always paying the max depreciation, because you have to trade every 3-4 years, and you never reach the lower depreciation years. Leasing is usually financially advantageous only if you can deduct the payments as a business expense.
In some cases, there are also some extra fees to pay, particularly if the car is rough at lease end.
Finally decided on the model I wanted (M35 w/journey) list price of $43,260, invoice $39,656. Visited two dealers - Costa Mesa and Tustin.
Trade-in: kbb.com says my car has a trade-in value of $3,650. Tustin said $3,000 but they would bump it up to $4,000. Costa Mesa said $2,400 but after I showed them my Tustin paperwork agreed to match the $4,000. Not really sure what price I should use for my real trade-in value.
Price: Costa Mesa kept firm to MSRP even though they only sold one M over the weekend! Dealer said that's what the market price is - based on one sale?? Tustin discounted the car to $42,756.
Lease money rate: For 36 months, 12K miles, Tustin initially said 0.00217. Costa Mesa dropped it to 0.00188 saying they would not receive their kickback. Later Tustin matched the rate.
The lease deal wound up $629.95/month (includes taxes) with $1,616.33 drive off. I told Tustin I would take their deal but unfortunately the car I wanted may have been sold to someone else during my negotiation session : (
My recommendations. Costa Mesa would like to sell you a car (at MSRP) but Tustin WANTS to sell you a car. Go with Tustin - their internet sales department guys have been great.
Another car that's peaking my interest is the New Lexus IS350. Estimated at $42K fully loaded, nicer interior materials and finish, 300 hp and supposedly great handling - could be a hell of an automobile. Of course the back seat is tight and Lexus said the GS was suppose to be targeting BMW and it really doesn't. Just have to wait and see.
The initial reports on the IS350 sound good. The pics look alright and it's damned fast (0-60 in the low 5's as per Lexus....we'll see.)
The only issue I have with cars in that class (3 series and S4 in particular) is not so much that the back is cramped (which it is), but that the space up front feels a little tight too.
I'm 6'2", and I took out the new body S4 for a drive over the weekend. It's a beast. Fast, holds the road for dear life. But the legroom under the wheel is not enough for me to stretch out and really get comfortable in, too narrow. Probably the same with the IS, but I'll take it out for a ride anyway.
I wonder why they wouldn't use beige plastic for the bourbon, too.
So, if you get the bourbon (which I believe is the nicest color option), you're gonna have black dash, floor, console, etc, bourbon seats, silver trim and a gray headliner?!? I must say that sound ridiculous!!!
I really like the bourbon, but if what you're saying is true, I'd need to stick with a gray interior or light tan (depending on how it looks/clashes with the headliner).
Thanks lurker for the info. I have not heard anything bad or good about their service after the sell. I just do not get a real good feeling when I go to the local Infiniti dealer.
I have not test driven the Ms, but I did when the G35 first came out. Did not get a good feeling then...but that was a long time ago now...maybe things have changed.
The dealer was very slow/late in getting the 2005 G35s and they were quite late on getting the Ms. They received their first Ms on 3/8/05 (two of them). Other people on this site had been talking about test drives from other dealers at least 2 weeks prior to the local dealer getting the Ms in stock.
I went by on a Friday night (3/11/05) about 10 minutes before they closed and no one came out to talk to me (which was OK because I enjoyed looking by myself), but it was odd. Finally when one of the salesman was leaving he saw us and saw that the two M35s were unlocked, he came over said Hi and asked if I wanted a brochure. I said yes and he got me one with his card and locked up the cars and left. He did not get my name or anything.
I appreciate a hands off or low key approach, but I would have thought they would have been a little more eager to show their first two M35s. As of last Sunday they still had the first two. Plus they had recieved an additional 35 and their first 45.
By the way...last Sunday they did have an M45 in stock. I believe it was grey non sport.
Let me know if you buy from Infiniti of Huntsville and let me know how the process went.
Actually, the beige plastic is too light for the bourbon. If you go to Infiniti's site and use the "Full screen experience" gallery, you will see both interior plastic colors (you might have to click on a few).
I feel that the dark coloring with the bourbon (dark tan) looks very rich--to keep with the alcohol theme, it kind of reminds me of a black and tan (with Guiness and Bass). I don't know how it would look with an exterior color other than black, though.
My concern is the lighter headliner. I wish they had different colors for the different interiors, but I saw the bourbon interior at the auto show and cannot recall that I even noticed this contrast.
My black M35x with the bourbon interior is supposed to arrive at the dealer today for pick-up tomorrow. I'll let you know more then.
I can appreciate how a black exterior would make the colors flow better. Hope things go smoothely with your pickup. I'm particularly interested to hear how you feel about the different-color headliner.
For me, the best person there to deal with has been Ken, their Internet Sales guy. His office might be in the Dodge building. Don't know if they are competitive with Nashville, Bhm & Chattanooga.
Not unusual, but they've had some recent staffing turnover there. I did think it was wierd that they had so many leftover 2004 G35 sedans, and even a leftover 2003, that they haven't sold yet.
I'm not quite sure why anyone would think leasing is better than buying unless you can deduct it. If you plan on keeping your car more than 2 years buying is almost always better. With cars that hold good resale, such as Lexus, Acura, Infinity etc. If you figure your payments on a lease versus what your car is worth on the market and what you paid you will be ahead by 10-20%. There is never been a article written that says leasing is bettert unless you deduct it. Now, if you go out and buy a car which loses tremendous value at trade-in or on the open market it is probably better to lease on the cheap. I have personally bought both Lexus and Acura and when it came time to sell them I was way ahead over leasing. It is not hard to sell a quality car for good money. For the most part auto manufacturers love to lease cars becuase it is simple, they make more money. Go out and buy a Acura TL, and after 4 years it is still worth quite a bit, with reasonable mileage. If you figure your lease payments along with down stroke it is much better to buy. The reason most people lease is because they just can't afford to buy.
Hey richcream: I have a 2002 BMW 325i and like you am 6'2". Legroom up front has been a bit tight. Have you sat in an M yet? I tried a new GS. Found it a bit tight. Thanks. hpowders
Comments
$2500 above invoice is a good deal at this point.
Where are you?
Thanks in advance.
That is the exact configuration I am looking. Infiniti.com shows that as $56,560 including destination. Any how I have not been able to test drive one at night and am wondering if all of those lighted buttons on the dash cause distracting reflections on the windshield. Also how was your experience with the dealer? I one I am working with really sucks.
It seems like so many of the Bimmers at the dealer were black, metallic black, silver, darker silver, smoke, etc and every one of them had a black on black interior.
The things are depressing. The interior of this X3 does not, to our eyes look cheap -- indeed in terra cotta it looks "smashing!"
And, you are right, it IS her car and she seems delighted. I would not have any problem with this car personally either -- the sport package really improves things, and compared with the the TT, the ride is NOT harsh, despite some of the test reports of the first year's offerings.
And with all the lux toys and uplevel sound system, I think you might find it "not bad."
Now, I like Audi interiors, period -- and the new BMW (3 series thus far) interiors look pretty nice too (as long as they're not black!)
DVD navigation, too, will be a godsend, the CD nav in my allroad works great but I have been noticing how long it takes to calculate a route -- the new DVD systems are much faster.
1) IMOH the financing costs built into a lease are very high. Wrong.
If you know how to look at the money factor then you can see what your interest rate is. I had a .0010 money factor on a 5 series which is 2.4% interest rate. Bet you don't get that low on a luxury car.
2) Leasing may seem cheaper than buying, but you're mortgaging your future when you lease. After a few years of leasing a vehicle and making payments, you own nothing. WRONG AGAIN!
All you pay in a lease is the same thing you pay when you buy. Interest and depreciation. They are speculating on what the car is worth 3 years from now. When you buy a car in essence you are paying the total down over 5 years. Difference in leasing is I have a guarantee. I can walk away without having to find a buyer after 3 years. You can't. After 3 years how many cars are worth more than you owe on the loan? Not many.
3) Most leases allow you to drive an average of 15,000 miles per year. If you exceed the limit, you have to pay a penalty. Who wants to worry about how many miles they put on their car-especially if it is fun to drive? What happens if you currently have a short commute of 10-20 miles one way, and you have to change jobs and end up with a commute of 25-40 miles one way?
Wrong again.
You can buy extra miles at any time during your lease. You can lease a car and drive 10K, 12K, 15K, 18K, or 20K per year. Completeley negotiable.
4) You are locked into a lease regardless of changing circumstances. What if you lose your job and can not afford the payments? What if you end up with a car that is always in the garage? Granted it is under warranty, but who wants to spend all their time in the service department? If you want to end your lease early, you have to pay penalties.
If you are leasing a luxury car then you get a loaner. Second if I have a car that has problems, I know that this car is gone after 3 years. You do not. You are stuck with a problem car. If you lose your job you are stuck wih a loan still. You can get rid of a lease through leasetrader if you want.
5) If you lease and your car is totaled in an accident, you could be responsible for a giant gap between the amount the insurance company will pay and the stated residual in the lease. Sure, you could end up with a gap if you purchase, however if you put down 10-20% and have a good interest rate, I doubt you will be upside down in your payments
THis is what gap insurance is for.
6) Some of you have mentioned that you are always under warranty since you lease every 2-3 years, thus never having to pay for major repairs. I have found that even though I may pay for repairs after my car is no longer under warranty, the cost of the repairs per month are less than the cost of a new lease payment of $500-$700 per month.
But after those 3 years you are paying for repairs on an lod car and I am driving a brand new car.
I do not understand why anyone would buy a car. You are throwing money away. Take a $60,000 car. For arguments sake say that you are leasing and buying at 0%. You are spending $1,000 a month paying for a heavily depreciating asset. Most luxury cars are worth about 60% after 3 years. TO lease that same car it is $660/month. I could take the extra $340/month and make at least 6-10% per year return on it. I would be saving about $4,100/year and get another $300 in interest. After 5 years I have $22,000 and am driving a new car. You have a car you are driving that is'nt going to be worth close to $22,000 and you still have to go thru the pain of selling it.
Really, really glad I got the sport pkg. Yes, it is noticeably stiffer, but not too much, and makes the 4k pound car feel quite nimble.
Going in tomorrow after work for M45 training class
Didn't do extensive listening, but did drive one with journey pkg and no tech pkg, which meant the std Bose stereo (not 5.1 surround as in tech pkg). I was not too thrilled with the audio (good, but not great), but so far am pleasantly surprised with the upgraded audio that is part of the tech pkg. Was never thrilled with the Bose in my '03 Corvette, but this one seems much better.
One minor complaint - found that the main display (map, radio, etc.) and the compass in the mirror were both difficult to read in daylight with sunglasses on.
I hesitate to say much more about the car right now... want to wait til I can stop smiling!!!
A blanket statement like this doesn't make sense. There are too many variables, such as lease terms, financing rates, how much you have to pay for extra miles, how much gap insurance is, the residual, the resale value, etc.
I find that the lease terms on most cars are not favorable to buy then sell. Of course, there are leasing deals out there in which this is not the case.
I agree with jrock65. The formula is extremely complicated. I once read a report on comparison of leasing, buying and getting a load. They all came out to be about the same in normal conditions. The differences are in when things veer away from being normal....
In short, my BMW540iA just failed again this morning. This is probably the 15th bugs I had after owning it for more than 6 years. I regret every minute now that I bought it. All my Japanese cars had at most 1 bug after 6-7 years of ownership.
My new motto is: "Buy Japanese cars, lease German.", which is very different from what Warren Buffet said, "Buy what appreciates, lease what depreciates." I guess Warren is all for leasing automobiles. (other than some classics)
Also how does the Aux inputs in the backseat work with an i-pod?
Thanks
One more thing for people to think about is "the financial maturity does not go to people who have things most, but to people who need less."
The rear seat does not fold down. Supposedly, Infinity did not offer this option as they wanted to maintain the integrity of the body of the car.
Most people hone in on a type of car (Premium in this case), a price range and a term of "use" (regardless of buy, lease or finance). With leasing you do have the advantages you pointed out AND all the same disadvantages of ownership if, heaven forbid, you lose your situation and have to bail out early. Anyway you "use" the car the depreciation really socks it to you in the early year or two of "ownership."
Good post!
The new X3 has birch wood, very nice grained leather and sport seats -- but I'm "spoiled by Audis" and can understand why someone might not care for the X3 nor think it was the pinnacle of interior design.
On the other hand, I do think the current G35x needs something to elevate it -- yet, after seeing the first attempt at an interior in the G35's, I see a big time improvement.
Currently I "appreciate" the look of the interior of the A4 (2005.5), the C320 Mercedes (2005) and the pictures of the new 2006 BMW 3 series -- and of course the Infiniti M35x.
The BMW my wife ordered has me thinking -- I am slightly torn (since I still have a few weeks to place an order) between the A4 (and maybe the A6), the M35x and the "pictures" of the new BMW 330.
I had never even considered a BMW until I actually went through the past several days of test driving, and I still think the 5 series looks like a Pontiac with a big butt -- but the new 3 looks good as does the A4 (and hopefully I will have the ability to configure an A4 3.2 with S-Line and manual transmission.)
As I said earlier, if the trigger were pulled TODAY, it would be an M35x. Education (and this TH) may change this.
NB: the Infiniti M35 is $1,000 down, $499 month, 39 months 12,000 / year Journey only. There is one dealer here in Cincinnati at this time. I don't know if this is a good deal or not -- it "got my attention" however.
Since it was NOT an "x" and not 15,000 miles, I didn't want to get too excited, but this price "certainly" draws a crowd on a Sunday afternoon, to peer in the window of the gleaming black M with the Bourbon interior.
Lexus, Acura, or Infiniti on the other hand, I wouldn't have a problem buying a first year model.
The M35 @ $499 a month with $1,000 down sounds like a nice deal. Black on Bourbon would be a great combo IMO.
The bourbon interior is nice, but I don't know if it goes very well with the Rosewood (so far, the only wood offered.) I think I'd need to take the car out for a day to decide if bourbon is the way to go.
Has anyone else checked out the black interior and noticed the contrast with the very light-colored ceiling upholstery? Dramatic.
Also - the aluminum looks great in person, more toned down than pics might have you believe. Too bad it's only available on the sport models, thus excluding the M35x.
The bourbon interior is very nice too IMO. I like all of the contrasting colors. Very modern/trendy looking.
Last Tuesday there were 156 M35s and 148 M45s listed.
Today there are 163 M35s and 178 M45s listed.
I'll check again next Tuesday. Early signs are that they may be a bit optimistic in their M45 sales projections.
I think that the rosewood varies in color from vehicle to vehicle ever so slightly. I've been in at least 3 different M35x's with blk/rswd combo, and I swear that the wood looks lighter or darker in one than the other. Saw each during the day under comparable conditions, but who knows, maybe it's just me.
Wonder how the dealer will respond to that order request: "I'll take the black w/ rosewood, and make sure that the wood is on the darker side."
Does anyone know if matte wood requires any special care (vs. lacquered?)
What was your experience...good or bad???
Thanks.
I have not noticed any distracting reflections on the windshield at night. The Nav dims when its dark or when the headlights go on. Believe me, coming from a 98 GS400 with no Nav, all these bells and whistles on the M45 are quite distracting enough. I can place calls with my cell phone using bluetooth, find and calculate the time and distance to a desination, adjust the temperature of the cabin, and even check the tire pressure, all just by voice activation. Oh yeah, the car handles like a dream too and really rips when you jump on the gas!
As for the dealer, I was working with about 3 from my area. I used the infiniti.com website to locate the car I wanted and the dealership where it was located. Then, I just kinda of played one off the other. I am sure the dealers are looking for good sales numbers this month, just hang in there and keep asking them, "why don't you want to sell me this car?"
I think you are correct regarding inventories beginning to build a bit and sales projections being perhaps somewhat agressive.
The M cars are generating solid interest and rightly so but I think gas mileage may cause some to at least think twice (I know the additional cost may not be that great in relative terms but many buyers just want a car that is more fuel efficient. Also, there are several alternatives - 3 and 5 series, E320, etc that get better mileage). New 3 series is interesting.
I think M sales may be solid but not "off the charts" because I have begun to see lots more TV and print advertising. I sensed the same trend for the Acura RL (which had more issues in my view) when its launch began to falter. I just got a call from the Acura dealer today saying they have plenty of colors and are ready to deal.
Think the M will do much better than the RL but would not be surprised to see dealers come off MSRP by a solid amount soon. I don't think Infiniti dealers are generally as stubborn as some other dealers in trying to cling to MSRP and they have more money to work with on the cars.
This is the best I could find, I hope it helps.
M
That being said, there's an awful lot of black. I understand two-tone can look nice, and many cars keep the dash 1 color regardless of the interior/exterior (I think it's done to save on costs more than for looks), but it looks like regardless of the color choice, the whole floor, center console and doors are black. At least it kind of looks like the roof and pillars will be bourbon(right?).
I bet if the whole thing were bourbon, the rosewood would look really nice. I can see how some might think the bourbon (or anything, but black for that matter) with rosewood and black and silver trim is a little busy.
I think the G35 is horribly tacky with its silver trim - way overdone. In person the car in your photo might look nice (eclectic?) - hard to tell from a photo. Thanks again, and I hope I didn't offend anyone who likes this color scheme. The great thing about opinions is everyone's got 1 (or 2)!!!
At any rate, bourbon is my color of choice. I was going to get a new Audi A6 4.2 in black w/ amaretto interior (same colors). What's with the references to alcoholic beverages in interior colors? Are manufacturers trying to send us some subliminal messages?
Again it's not an X3 forum, it is the only x-over vehicle currently offered in it's niche ( that handles/drives German) and it's not your car....so three pluses there. Although a 3-series wagon would be the better choice, unless the higher driving position is a concern.
As far as the M35/M45, I would never have considered Infiniti until this car came along. The picture above with the black interior w/ rosewood, it truly "STRIKING". The contrast is what catches the eye, and the piping on the seat shows Infiniti is paying close attention to detail. The one knock on Infiniti through our the years has been it's copy-cat persona. Which was evident in the 2nd generation Q45, borrow the grill from Lincoln, interior from Lexus, etc. I'm hoping they are not trying to do the same now? Styling cues look BMWish, along with an IDrive type feature, the "Infiniti controller"??? Any on you that own or have test driven the M and a BMW played with both IDrive and the Infinti version? Does Infinti's version operate better, differently, etc. This feature is a definite turn off for any BMW equipped with it.
That's actually not piping. When you see it in person, you'll notice that it's actually a not-too-classy-looking inlay. A vinyl inlay at that.
I'm thinking of buying an M45 from them this year. Waiting for them to get one in to check it out.
They also sell Lexus there, but my test drive of a GS300 was no where near as good as the G35S. In fact, it's hard to believe, but the GS300 seemed way too much like the new Avalon, when I drove them back-to-back; overboosted steering, and fairly vague handling, and the interiors of the two were very similar in their basic construction, yet the Avalon had better front seat adjustment and much larger back seat area. I was also amazed that laser cruise is only available on the GS430, but you can get it on the Avalon.
BTW, I still haven't found a Japanese car that handles as tight and confidently as a Volvo S60R, or has as good seats, but that is another story.
In some cases, there are also some extra fees to pay, particularly if the car is rough at lease end.
Trade-in: kbb.com says my car has a trade-in value of $3,650. Tustin said $3,000 but they would bump it up to $4,000. Costa Mesa said $2,400 but after I showed them my Tustin paperwork agreed to match the $4,000. Not really sure what price I should use for my real trade-in value.
Price: Costa Mesa kept firm to MSRP even though they only sold one M over the weekend! Dealer said that's what the market price is - based on one sale?? Tustin discounted the car to $42,756.
Lease money rate: For 36 months, 12K miles, Tustin initially said 0.00217. Costa Mesa dropped it to 0.00188 saying they would not receive their kickback. Later Tustin matched the rate.
The lease deal wound up $629.95/month (includes taxes) with $1,616.33 drive off. I told Tustin I would take their deal but unfortunately the car I wanted may have been sold to someone else during my negotiation session : (
My recommendations. Costa Mesa would like to sell you a car (at MSRP) but Tustin WANTS to sell you a car. Go with Tustin - their internet sales department guys have been great.
The only issue I have with cars in that class (3 series and S4 in particular) is not so much that the back is cramped (which it is), but that the space up front feels a little tight too.
I'm 6'2", and I took out the new body S4 for a drive over the weekend. It's a beast. Fast, holds the road for dear life. But the legroom under the wheel is not enough for me to stretch out and really get comfortable in, too narrow. Probably the same with the IS, but I'll take it out for a ride anyway.
So, if you get the bourbon (which I believe is the nicest color option), you're gonna have black dash, floor, console, etc, bourbon seats, silver trim and a gray headliner?!? I must say that sound ridiculous!!!
I really like the bourbon, but if what you're saying is true, I'd need to stick with a gray interior or light tan (depending on how it looks/clashes with the headliner).
I have not test driven the Ms, but I did when the G35 first came out. Did not get a good feeling then...but that was a long time ago now...maybe things have changed.
The dealer was very slow/late in getting the 2005 G35s and they were quite late on getting the Ms. They received their first Ms on 3/8/05 (two of them). Other people on this site had been talking about test drives from other dealers at least 2 weeks prior to the local dealer getting the Ms in stock.
I went by on a Friday night (3/11/05) about 10 minutes before they closed and no one came out to talk to me (which was OK because I enjoyed looking by myself), but it was odd. Finally when one of the salesman was leaving he saw us and saw that the two M35s were unlocked, he came over said Hi and asked if I wanted a brochure. I said yes and he got me one with his card and locked up the cars and left. He did not get my name or anything.
I appreciate a hands off or low key approach, but I would have thought they would have been a little more eager to show their first two M35s. As of last Sunday they still had the first two. Plus they had recieved an additional 35 and their first 45.
By the way...last Sunday they did have an M45 in stock. I believe it was grey non sport.
Let me know if you buy from Infiniti of Huntsville and let me know how the process went.
I feel that the dark coloring with the bourbon (dark tan) looks very rich--to keep with the alcohol theme, it kind of reminds me of a black and tan (with Guiness and Bass). I don't know how it would look with an exterior color other than black, though.
My concern is the lighter headliner. I wish they had different colors for the different interiors, but I saw the bourbon interior at the auto show and cannot recall that I even noticed this contrast.
My black M35x with the bourbon interior is supposed to arrive at the dealer today for pick-up tomorrow. I'll let you know more then.
For me, the best person there to deal with has been Ken, their Internet Sales guy. His office might be in the Dodge building. Don't know if they are competitive with Nashville, Bhm & Chattanooga.
Not unusual, but they've had some recent staffing turnover there. I did think it was wierd that they had so many leftover 2004 G35 sedans, and even a leftover 2003, that they haven't sold yet.
I have a 2002 BMW 325i and like you am 6'2". Legroom up front has been a bit tight.
Have you sat in an M yet?
I tried a new GS. Found it a bit tight.
Thanks.
hpowders