Toyota Prius

bksward

be delivered tomorrow for a quick $2.5K USD net profit before tax incentives.

One thing I noticed on the website

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/tax_hybrid.shtml

looking at the tax incentive was this line:

Are there other requirements?
Yes.
You must purchase the vehicle new and for your own use, not for resale
You must drive it mostly in the United States
The vehicle must meet all federal and state emissions requirements
Government agencies, tax exempt organizations, and foreign entities not eligible
If any of these conditions change within 3 years of purchase, you may have to return some of the money saved by the deduction.


It sounds to me like if you "flip" the vehicle, you cannot claim the tax incentive, but I'd check with someone qualified to interpret the IRS on it...

rpgolfer

Happy New Year all!

Can anyone in California tell me how long it took for receive their new Prius? I'm considering ordering one but if it will take more than 3 months I might be better off buying a new Camry or Corolla. I prefer a Prius but I can drive the others home the same day.

Take care everyone and thanks for the answers.

Rich

raguero

rpgolfer - I got my Prius in Santa Monica. I had put down a deposit in Oct and got delivery about 3 weeks ago. I don't think anyone here has much shorted waiting periods. My dealer, Toyota of SM, sold the most Priuses (Pruisi?) in the country last year so they get more than anyone else (so they said). Try them, but watch out for the "paint protection" packade. They have sold 250+ Prius so far.

rpgolfer

Thank you raquero for your input. I'm in the SF Bay Area so Santa Monica might be out of the question. The last dealer I spoke with said 3 months or so. I know the popularity is skyrocketing so the wait gets longer. Anyone else?

Rich

john1701a

The wait is dependent on the package you order.

A friend of mine has been waiting longer than 3 months already... because he wants the "everything" package. A few differently loaded ones have been offered to him and refused. (He wants to endure the full brundt of the delivery wait agony.)

JOHN

gaspar1

I live in L.A. and was on wait lists for 4 weeks before my purchase at Toyota of Hollywood, which claimed IT

rpgolfer

Thanks john1701a and gaspar1-
    Believe it or not I'm considering ordering the Pkg 9 with the Prius, so I guess that means a 3-4 month wait. Hmmmmm. I'm a little skeptical about spending over $25K for a virtually untested vehicle. I'm trying to worm my way to get a test drive somewhere and perhaps then I'll be convinced to buy a Prius. I would imagine with this many Priuses being ordered the factory would simply send out one of every package with each shipment. I read that a lot of people are "jumping the gun" when the dealers call and say "we have a #3 available but not quite in your color". Some people can't wait and I can appreciate that because you know that ALL Priuses are going to sell like hotcakes. One of the local dealers has a blue one that he claims is not for sale, it's for "look see" only. Which suits me just fine because it's nice to be able to walk around the vehicle and peer inside and not subject oneself to scrutiny if you happen to ogling one in a mall parking lot.
Rich

gaspar1

I have posted previously on my gas mileage and gauge problems. I live in Los Angeles and drive mainly short trips up and down Mulholland Drive. I have had to fill up 3 times in my 800 ODO, for an average of 36 mpg. That means I fill up before I ever reach 300 miles, and about once a week. In addition the gas gauge is unreliable, going from 2 segments to one and then blinking in 3 seconds, dropping a notch every 20 miles or so, or otherwise being unreliable. Brought it into Toyota of Hollywood dealer, who said Toyota company told him the gas gauge problem is attributable to cold weather! (In southern California). He said he took it out for a "real life drive" of 6 miles and got 42 mpg.
By the way, Toyota of Hollywood said IT is the largest dealer, and that's why they get their cars so fast. I AM STILL NOT A HAPPY CAMPER!!
By the way, thanks to all for the tip on 3M Scotch Brite for cleaning the panel, and for the tip on the HOV lane here in L.A.
I don't know if I have a lemon or not, but I am not thrilled with what is happening.

backy

Definitely go talk to Walser in Bloomington. They were the only dealer I talked to that gave me a discount ($500). They have a no-haggle pricing policy so I didn't even I also was very impressed by the salesman, although I know I am not allowed to provide his name here. The downside is that even though they are the #5 dealer in the Chicago Region in sales and thus get a large allocation of Priuses (10-11 a month) they have quite a backlog. I'll probably get mine no earlier than March, and I put my order in (pkg 3) in mid-November.

rpgolfer

gaspar1 - Thanks for the input.

   You see fellas, it is these unforseen problems that are catching my attention. I know not every car is going to be trouble free. But waiting for 3 months or more could easily get a person excited when the big day comes and take posession of your long-awaited Prius. Now only to find out 1000 or so miles down the road some glitch comes up, and the owner can get dismayed really quickly if he doesn't get satisfaction from his new friend, "the dealer and his cousin, the service dept". Promises, promises and the check's in the mail, too. I hope you get the problems solved gaspar1
Rich

shmunson

sorry, all were sold today. wish I could have posted good news sooner. Happy new year

backy

Did you get one of those?

jchan2

don't worry. Just order a Prius and take the smaller government taxable income deduction- it's still better than nothing!

jchan2

try complaining to Toyota, but first see if the dealer's manager will help resolve the problem. If that doesn't help, go to your regional manager, he/she will probably help.

john1701a

Do you know of ANY vehicle with a bladder in the tank that delivers a high-precision guage?

If all the other vehicles exhibit the same measurement behavior, your complaints won't accomplish anything since no one in the industry actually has a solution available.

Toyota has already changed the behavior of the Multi-Display to help promote the use of DISTANCE as a fill-up indicator instead. They have also changed the "add fuel" indicator to now trigger at the tail-end of the "accurate zone".

JOHN

john1701a

> for an average of 36 mpg. That means I fill up before I
> ever reach 300 miles and about once a week. In addition
> the gas gauge is unreliable

If you have already declared the gauge "unreliable", why are you still following what it says?

36 MPG * 9 Gallons = 324 Miles

The practical capacity owners have reported is about 10 Gallons. So you don't have to fill up as often.

JOHN

gscheil1

As I have said before, I got my car in October, having ordered it sight-unseen a couple months before. My dealer has advised he will not be taking future orders because he has already placed orders for his entire share. Don't think he has really delivered all the cars he has sold but I intend to ask him. Oh Yes! Had my first flat tire yesterday. Picked up a sharp pointed screw that caused a slow leak. I was embarrased(sic)to discover I DID NOT have the wheel lock adapter in the car and I was 100 miles from home. It's in the car now.

john1701a

Note: That is an aftermarket feature.

None of the 9 standard packages Toyota offers includes a wheel lock adapter. You'd get it from a dealer directly or purchase it from an automotive supply shop afterward.

JOHN

john1701a

46.5 MPG is what my 1,809 miles last month averaged to.

That's pretty darn impressive for cold weather driving, here in Minnesota.

Keep in mind that I'm on year 4 with hybrid driving experience. So I'm well aware of all the things to do and things not to do... though, I don't always have control over them.

JOHN

oldfox

What is this? Never heard of it.

jchan2

What's the wait for the Prius now? 6 months? 4 months? 3 Months? How long?

gscheil1

John- Mine was purchased from my Toyota Dealer. I just forgot to put the adapter in the car.

Oldfox - It's an accessory sold by Toyota. Comes in a set. It's a wheel nut that can't be removed without the adapter. Most Toyota dealers have a "master" set of the adapters but when I stopped in St. Joseph, MO. that Toyota dealer did not have the full set of adapters.
I have the wheel locks on both of my Toyotas and they are supposed to protect your "Mag" wheels from thieves.

backy

That's a difficult question to answer because of all the variables. In my area (Twin Cities) it's around 4-6 months, but if you aren't picky about color or package choice you might be able to get one pretty quickly, i.e. if someone on the wait list turns down the car. I've seen numerous postings from Toyota dealers on the Prius forums advertising immediate availability of a Prius. They are snapped up pretty quickly though. I saw someone recommend not to get on a list, but instead talk with all the Toyota dealers in your area and tell them you are ready to take whatever comes in (well, maybe with some restrictions but the fewer the better) at a moment's notice, and give them your cell phone or beeper number--and have your financing lined up.

murphy27

Well, let me tell you about the president - he gives 100,000 tax breaks to those that buy large SUVs - check it out,it is true- oil and the rich benefit, not those that want to conserve and make the environment better.

texassalsa04

...First, Happy New Years to All! I specifically wanted and ordered a Salsa Red AG package on September 12 (if I remember) and took delivery on November 24. I was third on "the list" and the first Salsa the dealer delivered. The other two were Silver. I did give my sales rep three other choices of colors and option packages. I don't know if this will help anyone else out there but I also asked for the top sales man/woman at the dealer. I did end up working with the top sales guy at the dealer and he does not mess around. I think one of the reason he is the top sales man is because he does not play games with serious prospective buyers. I told him that I did not want any extras with my car except for floor mats. The car actually came with "glass etched" but he honored our agreement of "no extras" and did not charge me for that. I had gotten financing through my credit union and it was a very fast buying process (about 2 hours). I declined all other extra offers like GAP insurance, etc...I did put down $6,000 to reduce the amount I am financing through my credit union. Good luck for those still waiting and be patient. The wait is worth it! P.S. I still have that annoying rattling around the back cargo area. My only complaint.

shmunson

No I didn't. I was in the market for two vehicles (replace 14 year old VW Vanagon - best van ever made - and a Camry that was totaled at the beginning of Dec). I decided at the last moment that I would sell my 15 year old VW Vanagon next Dec and get a better deal on the Prius. Can it make it? It is dripping oil, electric locks are malfunctioning, dripping auto trans fluid, battery is weak in winter, has 170k miles on it, and I am wearing sunglasses (get it). Happy New Year!

backy

Bear in mind you put in your order 3-1/2 months ago, and still had a 2-1/2 month wait. The waiting lists have been building steadily since then. All the positive press the new Prius has received (MT COTY, C/D 10Best etc.) hasn't helped keep the lists short. I was cautioned by my Toyota sales rep the other day that there will be a slowdown in production of the Prius early this year when the Highlander hybrid ramps up. I'm not sure why that would be the case, unless perhaps the same plant makes the HSDs for both, but this is the second time he's brought it up--and that was after I put my order in, so it's not like he's saying it to put pressure on me to buy.

backy

If you wait until next December, maybe you could replace your Vanagon with a Highlander hybrid--but get in line early! Happy New Year to you!

shmunson

You're kidding me, right? You are correct that the ending of the tax benny predates his administration. However, he does have an energy bill on the table that takes it back to $2000 but doesn't raise it as what should be done. Why should he do this? Because taxes move the populous.

Too expensive to subsidize people buying gas saving vehicles. NO, its to expensive subsidizing SUV buying doctors, real estate agents, etc and tax breaks that benifit the top 1%. If we can reduce gas usage by 30%, the middle east becomes a non issue. We would no longer feel compelled to take over countries because of their oil (if you don't think our country thinks this way, read Washington Post article 1/1/04 on 1973 memo just to do that). We get relatively little oil from the middle east compared to Canada and others. Saving gas means we can starting dealing with the middle east issue with real solutions instead of one to maintain our flow of oil.

Look, this is a no brainer. Less gas used means less pollution. Decreasing pollution results in your kid and mine using less inhalers. Stop looking at the benefit the Prius brings to YOU. How about what this trend could bring to us all. Yes, this is a guilt statement. But I will add, you never feel guilty about something you do that is selfless. Guilt happens when you do something that is selfish.

I read on this site people arguing about how long it will take to make up in gas savings the "extra" cost of the Prius (compared to Corolla or Civic). Stop looking at the Prius only as a gas saver. It is engineered to produce less pollution. It does this through efficiency and through burning less gas per mile. But most of all through efficiency.

As long as you view the Prius as a product to make only your life easier, the car doesn't make sense. But if you view it as your contribution and a trend, then it makes a lot of sense.

But the fact is Toyota and Honda are it. No one else is moving because we are a selfish populous that only see it as a burden and not a benefit. With that said, I praise Toyota for being hell bent on being the Hybrid company of the future. I also realize that others have stated they are following with new models soon but the only that I would bet my money on is Lexus (Toyota again). Ford? Good luck.

Full discloser: I drive a VW Vanagon (about 20mpg) to and from work. I am the only passenger in this vehicle for about 97% of the miles. I am not helping nor am I doing as I preach. No excuses and I wish I could make the move today (no excuses but an explanation: as you can see from a previous post, I just bought a new Toyota Sienna and had our passenger car totaled, so money is not as abundant as it was).

I am now stepping off my soap box and going to a walk.

shmunson

See my post right after yours. That is were I am coming from.

gscheil1

As I have posted before, I ordered sight-unseen and got the car the next Monday after the date all dealers got one for display/rental. I did not mess around with a sales person. Since I had purchased a lot of cars from this same dealer, I was well known and I went directly to the Sales Manager who immediately told the person, sitting next to him (He orders and keeps track of deliveries) to order my car. If you are a repeat customer at one dealer, stick with him, it pays off. He told the man to get the car, saying "it's sold". I got te first car delivered to a customer in the entire Kansas city area.When they got the first car for display/rental, they sold 7 cars the first day but I don't know if any have been delivered.

tlc9

I've seen comments that the backup beep can be disabled. Has anyone actually done it and where exactly do you find information on how to do it?

texassalsa04

tlc9...follow these instructions...

1. Power on.
2. Set Trip/ODO to ODO
3. Power off.
4. Power on.
5. Within 6 seconds, press and hold ODO for 10 seconds or more.
6. WHILE STILL HOLDING ODO *after* 10 seconds, Shift from P to R, then
back to P. Now release ODO.
7. You'll see in the trip pisplay "b on" or "b off".
8. Press ODO to toggle.
9. Now power off.

Sylvia

Hello...just a reminder this discussion is for people to report the price they paid for their Prius and share their buying experience. Politics, etc. don't belong in this discussion.

Thanks!

Now back to our regularly scheduled discussion:
Toyota Prius: Prices Paid and Buying Experience

pfine

Yes, this should not be a political discussion page, but in terms of buying, someone, especially Toyota and Honda need to lobby for the fact that the federal tax incentive is a large part of buying one of these hybrids, and, frankly the amount should be increased, not decreased. If you have a choice between a say a Prius or Accord Hybrid, and a Jetta/Golf Diesel, it could definitely be the tax incentive that will influence the sale of one over the other. Both get very high mileage, and the diesel has a lower price and a well proven reputation for durability, easy repairability and proven resale value. The tax incentive is a key way to allay hybrid buyers' fears. Honda and Toyota should now offest the $500 loss to buyers by dropping prices.

emptyseer

I decided that the progressive engineering of the Prius made it the car to get NOW, so I wandered to the dealer one Sunday in October, only to find the dealership empty because they were doing a "sale" at the mall. Yuck!. But we went over and I got out and looked at the Prius sitting on the lot. Got inside. It felt okay as far is fit. I didn't drive it or even turn it on. The salesman who handles Priuses came up to me and gave me his card. A few days later on October 27th I went into the dealership and ordered the color (Millennium Silver) and package (#7) I wanted and the salesman said it would would arrive on the boat in LA on November 18th and get to the dealer on the November 28th. The only problem I saw was that I'd be back east for Thanksgiving till the 29th and have to wait. I checked from the east and was told they still expected it, but maybe not till Dec 2nd. On November 30th, the salesman called to tell me it was there and I could pick it up the next day.

I had never dealt with the dealership before (I bought the 83 Tercel I was replacing in California since they were selling it cheaper there at that time). The salesman was totally professional and had I not been reading this board, I would never have know all the games being played out there in response to an impossible shortage.

I am in no way disappointed with the car. It is not a high-end BMW in power and smoothness (not that I have much experience driving those luxury mobiles), but I know that going in. It suits.

Frank
'04 Millenium Silver AM

backy

Sorry to continue the straying, but the point about the "$500 loss to buyers" requires some clarification. It's not a $500 loss to buyers. It's not a tax credit, but a tax deduction, that is, you can take a $1500 deduction against your income this year if you take delivery of a hybrid for personal use. You save whatever the additional income tax would be on that $1500. As for Toyota dropping prices on a car that has a huge waiting list... I wouldn't count on it.

prius4meus

"The practical capacity owners have reported is about 10 Gallons."

John1701a- Are you getting a practical capacity of 10 gallons in Minnesota? I have filled 8 times; 7 times with one bar and 1 time when the add fuel alert came on. The most I have ever been able to put in is 8.0 gallons and usually I manage to squeeze in 6.8-7.2 gallons. I have attributed this to the cold weather in northern Ohio as well as the attributes of the bladder which have been well described in this forum. I actually don't care about how much gas I can put into the tank but I wouldn't want some people to think they got a lemon because they can't put 11.9 gallons into their tank...

46.5 mpg in the tundra is truly impressive! I'm hovering around 42 in our comparatively temperate environment, presumably taking a hit from my meager 5 mile commute.

Sylvia

tlc9

Texasalsa04

Thanks for the info. We're away for the holiday in our truck but will give it a try on our return home. Ours is a Salsa also and we love it. Only thing that drives me crazy is the beep and we noticed the gas gage is a little quirky. Averaging around 50 MPG after 3 fill ups so far.
Again thanks!

john1701a

> John1701a- Are you getting a practical capacity of 10
> gallons in Minnesota?

With my 2001, I filled up a number times giving it around 9.5 gallons without having triggered the "add fuel" warning. Having waited until getting the warning, I could have pumped in 10 gallons.

Toyota's change to trigger the warning sooner is what's ruffling some new owner's feathers.

They found out (actually I did too) that it is common practice for some people to not even pay attention to gas level until the warning light comes on. So basically, they were ignoring the fact that it was a "WARNING" and instead treating it as an indicator.

And if you want to theorize how they determined when to trigger it in the 2004, I suggest looking at my spreadsheets. You'll notice that the distance is the same average distance I refilled for the past 3 years. Amazing coincidence... ?

JOHN

shmunson

My passion got the better part of me. Thanks Sylvia for your gentle prod. Have a great NEW YEAR.

sljbfam

Since I picked up my seaside pearl blue Prius on Dec. 10th I have not seen any other 2004 Prius on the road in north Jersey. Until today, I saw a black one in Jersey City as I was heading to work on the NJTP. And people are starting to ask me about the car as I stop and get out. They say what kind of car is that, do I have to plug it in, what kind of gas mileage I get.... So far my first two fill ups have avg. 45.28 & 36.68 mpg. respectively. But this is still my breakin period and it has been consistantly in the 30's -40's in December. So I hope to see it go higher and as I get used to driving it. But it has been great, just love the smart entry & start feature.

murphy27

I also posted this on the buy experience board but perhaps you on this board would have more information. I test drove a Prius today in Miami - price was 21.563 for a white with package 3. 4-6 weeks delivery time. I am wondering if there are options in the other packages I would want that you are familiar with. My driving is only in the city, never on a freeway. It rains a lot here. I need ABS brakes, side airbags - in otherwords, not a lot of things but safety options are really important to me. Thanks for any suggestions you might have.

murphy27

I test drove a Prius today in Miami. Price was 21.563 for a package 3; delivery 4-6 weeks. However, thought the car was great to drive, I am curious as to options. As I only drive in the city, never on the freeway, always bumper to bumper traffic, rush hour, I really do not need a lot of extras but safety is important. Want ABS brakes, side airbags. Any suggestions as to other options I should consider/packages I should consider.
thank you.

backy

Some people consider stability control (VSD) as a safety feature, and also HID headlights. In the city, I don't know how valuable those features would be, especially the HID headlights. And in low-speed city traffic, I wonder how useful VSD will be. I personally ordered package 3, with much the same thinking as yours--almost all travel will be in-town, and the ABS and side bags and curtains are very important (especially in a small car vs. all the huge vehicles out there), but I think I can live without all the other toys. The Smart Entry and Start had some interest, but the only other packages available in my area when I ordered were 7 and 9, and I don't need the other stuff that comes in these packages. The Bluetooth phone would be nice, but I have to buy other options including the nav system to get it. Just my 2 cents.

backy

gscheil1

I talked to my dealer today. They have delivered 2 cars, mine and one other. They have orders in for 18 more but their allocation is for 3 cars a month. They are considering closing out the orders for 2004's but will take orders for 2005's.They certainly didn't get 3 cars in November or December.

john1701a

> in low-speed city traffic, I wonder how useful VSC will be

VERY, VERY USEFUL!

In city driving, you'll trigger VSC when turning difficult corners. Going through stray piles of snow (you know, the stuff plows cause) will trigger it too. And then of course, there's the occasional curve that will catch you off guard.

JOHN

john1701a

> I don't know how valuable those features would be, especially
> the HID headlights.

How often do you like cleaning headlights? I get tired of that constant sand & salt spray making them dirty. Fortunately, I have HID lights. That means the brightness lasts longer than it would with a traditional bulb. It's a definite definite advantage, one I hadn't even thought of until actually witnessing it first hand.

JOHN