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If you want to discuss the actual vehicle (mileage, technology, handling) please do so in the Toyota Prius 2004 discussion.
Please don't post the same messages in both discussions...discuss it one place or the other, but not both.
thanks...
Imagine my surprise when they called me to tell me that they had an option #8 coming on 12/18. They gave me an option to get that car and get the $2000 tax credit or I could wait until Feb. to get the one I ordered, but, I would only get a $1500 tax credit. The next week, they called me to tell me that it had arrived, A Full Week Earlier! Although I paid MSRP, the smile on my wife's face more than makes up for the extra cost.
1) This first question comes from my understanding of how hard it is for an engine during the first few moments after start up. When you start an engine, oil begins pumping to the parts that need lubricating. The momentary lack of oil can take it toll on an engine. When the Prius starts, it is typically under an immediate load. How come this isn't stressful (or is it)on the engine and its need for lubrication?
2) A salesperson in Chantilly VA told me recently that the delivery of Prius's with the navi are being delayed because of the EPA (EPA?What?)? Does anyone know anything about this?
3)Why do sales people knowingly answer questions incorrectly before saying "I don't know the answer to that question?" Recently, my brother and I went for a Prius test drive. The sales person was putting it through the paces and I said to my brother, "Notice how there isn't a 'shifting' effect." The the sales person stated that was because the car is "drive by-wire". No. CVT! I didn't correct the sales person but man alive. Less is more my friend.
4)I know that heat is available from the ICE. But is there also an electric heater?
5)Any regrets on a particular color from any owners?
6) The Tideland pearl (green) appears lighter in the brochure than in person (I compared to a car at the dealer). Has anyone noticed this or was my comparison unique?
Thanks in advance to all of you that respond to my several (many) questions. Have a great New Year everyone.
The electric motor spins the engine until oil pressure is established, then fuel is provided. So by the time the first spark occurs, the engine is already spinning between 800 & 1000 RPM. That is a drastic improvement over the 100 RPM a traditional starter can accomplish, making startup a non-issue.
4) ...is there also an electric heater?
Yes, there are 2 little ones to help with window clearing.
JOHN
Just wait until you see them everywhere. Dark gray used to be very popular. So like with many other color trends, it seems to be making a come back.
JOHN
But since then, the dealer can't give me a VIN number (he says they don't have access to the VIN or part of it until the car arrives at the dealership) and cannot get a status on it (A, F freight/ship?, or G - ground/truck? - I think these are the letters). He also, of course, cannot give me an accurate arrival date. (The last such date he suggested was two weeks ago today). I'm thinking the worst -- that I'm just being fed a line or two.
Or, do you think, that the information from Toyota really all this bad and all he is saying is on the up & up?
My current car is not going to last another month, and I'm torn between hoping not to get stuck without a vehicle and renting a wreck in the meantime with no idea of when one is coming... or just leaving the Prius behind moving on to something else.
Ugh. Thoughts?
I did find that the further I drove the lower the avg mpg went until around 90 miles the consumption screen was showing an avg of 52 mpg. I am happy with this since it was driving home to Western North Carolina (Lots of Mountains) from the Atlanta area.
I suppose that if you happen to refuel at about the same time the batteries reach full charge the MPG might get you into orbit.
It's working perfectly.
You pulled away from the gas station with a very warm engine. That allowed you to drive on that city street using mostly electricity. So what you saw what an accurate depiction of the MPG you were actually getting. Most likely, you haven't ever noticed that you can achieve 99.9 MPG even without the engine stopped.
Just press RESET sometime, you'll see the same thing happen.
In the classic design, it was easier to tell what was happening. The update-rate of the MPG immediately after RESET was much more frequent. Toyota intentionally impaired it in the 2004 because some people didn't like the numbers flying by so quickly. Now it appears as though the limited information causes confusion the first time an owner witnesses it. Oh well. Now you know.
JOHN
It always does, since the Alarm & SE/SS sensors are always active (unless you push the button to disable SE/SS).
JOHN
This car is SO different from any other that we have had - it takes some getting used to. So far I LOVE it. It was really fun last night. We drove through the Mile High Light display (you pay to drive through a display of lights and proceeds go to Make A Wish Foundation - mostly on electric the whole time. I was worried that the battery would be drained and in fact, it did get low enough that the gas engine kicked on to recharge it.
However, there is no reply yet to the "delay" to cars with the navi. Or was this again, just a salesperson coming up with an answer and playing the idea, "I think it is better to give a wrong answer than it is to say 'You know I don't know why'?".
Any sales people out there. Is it just taught not to say, "I don't know." I can understand the hesitation in doing so. If this is so, let me give an alternate quote: "I don't know, but I will find out." For a customer like me, I would rather hear 12 of those during a test drive than one flat out lie.
thanks again to everyone's response to my answers. Happy New year.
Then, a few days before Christmas 2001, the dealer called to say that my Odyssey arrived, and that I'd need to pick a date to pick the van up. I decided on the day after Christmas, so I went down and picked it up. The dealer gave me no contact between Thanksgiving and the day the truck with the van pulled into their lot, and I never got my VIN until I saw the van.
Toyota Customer Service provided a loyalty payment due to my complaint about a specific dealer error; sold my car to someone else.
A magnanimous gesture by Toyota to appease this repeat customer.
The dealer came through with a replacement auto within the initial prescribed delivery time frame.
Now with 1200 miles averaging 43mpg in the cool winter on short commutes. Very pleased with the effective cost after the $1500 Oregon tax credit.
It was a Salsa Red Pearl with Package Group 8, 414 miles on the odometer. Saleslady told me it was being used solely for test drives as every other Prius they had already received was sold and there was a 6 month waiting list for new ones coming in.
I liked how the car looked on the outside...very sleek and futuristic. It was taller than I expected and very easy to get in and out of. The beige interior already showed signs of wear and tear with visible scuff marks and stains on the upholstery. Not sure I like the massive dashboard top that spreads out a la Volkswagon New Beetle...I couldn't see the front of the car at all. The rear visibility to me was atrocious...I don't like the split view of the back window.
Saleslady showed me the key fob and how it goes into the receptacle on the dash. This car had the Smart Entry and Start System which was pretty nifty. She powered the car up and started to mess with the color display screen (after clearing the warning message that I assume comes on every time you start the car). I was pleasantly surprised by the way some of the indicators (like turn signals) seemed to be suspended in space ahead of and to the sides of the recessed speedo and fuel readouts.
I was allowed to drive the car right off the lot. First thing I noticed was a hesitation in response time after the throttle was pressed. It felt like there was a delay between when you pressed the throttle and getting forward motion. It was annoying to me. Once the car gained some momentum, the acceleration was better but not sporty by any means.
Coming to a stoplight, I found the brakes to be too grabby. If it wasn't for the seat belt I probably would have hit the windshield with my head! Modulation of the brakes took some getting used to and required a feather touch. At the stoplight I could hear (and feel!) the gas engine running. After about 15 seconds I could definitely feel the gas engine shut down. It was a rather lengthy stoplight and after about 40-45 seconds more I felt the gas engine kick on again. My only guess why it was doing this at a stop light was to provide heat to the cabin?
I tried the voice activation system by pressing the button, but couldn't get it to work. The female voice kept saying something to the effect of "Voice Recognition time is over." The saleslady had no idea what that meant, so we pulled over and started messing around with the User Screens. Still couldn't get it to work. I finally figured out what I was doing wrong...I was pressing and holding the button on the steering wheel. Apparently all you have to do is just lightly press the button once, wait for the beep and then say your command. OK, so I gave it a try and commanded "Set temperature 68 degrees". The system responded by setting the temperature to 70 degrees. Hmmm...at least it altered the correct system and didn't turn on the radio. Does one have to train the system to recognize your voice?
I messed around with some of the other functions on the display screen. I'll tell you what, if you're not careful this thing can be a major distraction. While driving I was alternating between glancing at the energy usage monitor and keeping my eyes on the road. I almost missed a stop sign because I was too entranced with the gee-whiz graphics. I also found out that at certain angles the display was washed out by the low position of the sun. Average fuel economy after the test drive read 29.0 MPG, but this included miles driven before me since I did not reset the trip computer.
The car rode nicely, the suspension swallowing bumps and minor potholes without complaint. Handling around corners was only so-so, then again that's not what this car was designed to do. Some body roll, but nothing that would require you to hang on for dear life.
All in all, based on what I was reading in this forum, I was expecting a thoroughly enjoyable driving experience. But the throttle lag, grabby brakes, inconsistent voice recognition and quirky design elements led to a rather under whelming test drive.
I guess this car is just not for me. To those of you who love it, more power to you. It's nice to be able to find a car that fulfills your wants and needs. The Prius, for me anyway, is not that car.
A great endorsement for that aspect.
> I don't like the split view of the back window
Did you notice that all traffic needs are fulfilled using just the top part? The bottom is only for close situations, like parking, since it comes down further than windows in traditional cars. Regardless, not everyone likes the same things. Personal preference.
> First thing I noticed was a hesitation in response
> time after the throttle was pressed. It felt like
> there was a delay between when you pressed the
> throttle and getting forward motion.
Emphasis on the word "FELT".
The initial launch is a common misunderstanding among those taking test-drives, until they realize the car is in fact moving already. The dead quiet, vibrationless aspect of the electric drive leaves people wanting more. Then when the engine kicks in, they get the noise & vibration they were expecting.
So the next time you take a test-drive, use your eyes instead. Watch the speedometer. Ignore traditional feedback that the ears (sound) & butt (feel) usually provide. Then report back to us.
> Coming to a stoplight, I found the brakes to be too
> grabby. If it wasn't for the seat belt I probably
> would have hit the windshield with my head!
Whoa! How old are the brakes on your current vehicles? You are almost certainly feeling the difference between new & old shoes & pads, not technologies. I have never heard a 2004 report so extreme. But I have felt that difference before when replacing the brakes on my Taurus.
> felt the gas engine kick on again
You must have had the heater or blower set really high. Using the lowest settings, I can approach a stoplight with the engine off already and usually keep it off the entire wait.
> Does one have to train the system to recognize your voice?
Nope, you just have to say the command exactly as programmed. Extra words confuse it. "68 Degrees" is all that's needed.
> I guess this car is just not for me.
There's no such thing as "one size fits all" when it comes to what you drive. That's why HSD will be available later in a bunch of other vehicles too.
JOHN
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> Do you suggest I press the button momentarily and then...
Press the button.
Wait for the beep.
Speak a command listed above slowly & clearly.
> Do I have to train the system to my voice?
No.
> What can you get the voice command to do?
See the previous 4 posts.
JOHN
Thanks for the long review. I am a bit concerned about the dirty interior--my first two color choices have the ivory interior and I prefer it to grey. Maybe the grey interior would be better at hiding dirt. Also I know that demo cars can get some hard use--but it's puzzling why the dealer didn't do a better job keeping it clean, to give prospective buyers a good first impression. I drove a demo car with 1200 miles on it and the ivory interior looked perfect.
I have not noticed the hesitation and grabby brakes you mentioned, in multiple test drives; I thought the brake modulation was quite good. I did notice some roll on sharp cornering, e.g. taking cloverleafs and 180 turns much faster than the posted limits, but it didn't seem excessive. (The salesman encouraged me to push the car to the limit, so I did.) I didn't drive, nor order, a car with the nav system so I haven't tried the voice recognition.
Good luck in your search for a car that is more to your liking!
I think part of the problem, for me, is that the lower part of the back window is heavily tinted while the upper portion is not. The overall effect gives the impression of a really small back window that cuts across your field of view.
> The initial launch is a common misunderstanding among those taking test-drives, until they realize the car is in fact moving already. The dead quiet, vibrationless aspect of the electric drive leaves people wanting more. Then when the engine kicks in, they get the noise & vibration they were expecting.
So the next time you take a test-drive, use your eyes instead. Watch the speedometer. Ignore traditional feedback that the ears (sound) & butt (feel) usually provide. Then report back to us. <
I dunno...this was the single most annoying aspect of the test drive. At every stop sign or stop light that "feeling" of hesitation when I pressed the throttle was very unnerving and not confidence-inspiring at all. It would take a lot of willpower for me to ignore it.
> Whoa! How old are the brakes on your current vehicles? You are almost certainly feeling the difference between new & old shoes & pads, not technologies. I have never heard a 2004 report so extreme. But I have felt that difference before when replacing the brakes on my Taurus. <
I drive a 2002 Elantra with original brake equipment. I do agree that there will be a difference between old and new brakes, but what I experienced in the Prius was a bit much. Then again, maybe I need to check the brakes on my Elantra! ;-)
> You must have had the heater or blower set really high. Using the lowest settings, I can approach a stoplight with the engine off already and usually keep it off the entire wait. <
We had the internal temp set at 73 degrees and it was just slightly above freezing outside. I think the fan was operating around mid level...not full blast. The stoplight came up at the end of the dealership access road, so there really wasn't enough time for the car to warm up (I was the first person to drive it today).
> Nope, you just have to say the command exactly as programmed. Extra words confuse it. "68 Degrees" is all that's needed. <
That's probably what the problem was. I wonder if the system somehow mistook "set temperature" as "seventy". It would have been nice to have your list of commands available with me on the test drive, that way I could have ensured that the commands I spoke were authentic choices.
That's why I posted it. I didn't want anyone else to miss out on the opportunity.
Thanks for sharing.
JOHN
It was disappointing. You know what they say about first impressions. The scuff marks were on the center console lid and it looked like someone spilled some sort of liquid on the front passenger seat. To make matters worse, the top of the dash was dusty! The outside of the car, however, was clean and free of road grime and salt. The Salsa Red is a pretty color for the Prius.
> I have not noticed the hesitation and grabby brakes you mentioned, in multiple test drives; I thought the brake modulation was quite good. <
Like I allude to in my response to John, maybe the brakes on my Elantra are weak compared to the Prius. All I know is that the same pressure applied to the brakes in the Prius that I normally apply in my Elantra resulted in the Prius doing a nose-dive...kinda scared me for a quick second!
> Good luck in your search for a car that is more to your liking! <
Thanks!
excellent article on 2004 prius and waitlist in DC area, some paragraphs on future trends in US hybrid vehicles. Excerpt:
U.S. Carmakers Slow To Join Hybrid Parade
Detroit to Focus on Trucks First
By Greg Schneider
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, December 27, 2003; Page E01
You can test-drive a 2004 Prius at Alexandria Toyota, but if you buy one you can't take it home. The waiting list stretches at least to April. "I didn't expect this much interest," said sales manager Mike Baird, who has 65 Priuses on back order.
The gasoline-electric hybrid car that started as a fad for environmentalists has become a full-fledged phenomenon. It is Motor Trend magazine's "car of the year" and one of the fastest-selling vehicles in the nation.
The Prius has a look that you either love or hate.
Personally, I find it as one of the least attractive vehicles of all time (it is right next to Pontiac Aztec on my list list of most extreme styling boredom and ugly-ness)
Darn-it, I was really looking forward to a hybrid vehicle and the Prius ain't it ! (and I always have a sweet spot for Toyota quality).
Hopefully by next year the Toyota designers might get a couple of lessons from the Chrysler/Mazda/Ford design teams and see how it is done. (Styling has always been my pet-peeve with Toyota vehicles)
--
Sorry about the rant but this is trully how I feel (this is not meant as a flamebait. I am hoping someone from Toyota looks at these posts)
Personally I hope that if Toyota steals styling ideas from Chrysler, Ford, or Mazda, it steals the most from Mazda.
I think the American public has, via TV and other advertising methods, been "brainwashed" on the need for "styling" when selecting an automobile. Most of us also have been brainwashed that we all need an SUV. Why my next door neighbor needs a 4-wheel drive Explorer to go back and forth to the shopping mall is beyond me. He is already complaining about how much he spends on gasoline.
My Prius does everything I want and expect, so I repeat...In spite of the styling...I am still smiling!
The desire for something that stands out in the crowd is what drives that.
For awhile, the fierce rigid look was all the rage in SUV styling. Now the appealing look is the sleek aerodynamic flow. The primary reason for this is the market saturation of te old style. It's everywhere. So the different look is a welcome change now.
And lucky for Prius, aerodynamic appeal offers more than just a style benefit. There is a MPG benefit too. So it only makes sense that other vehicles will begin to look like Prius too. And despite the distasteful comments, many are purchased anyway.
In other words, be careful what you label as "ugly" since you very well could end up driving something like that years from now.
JOHN