Toyota Prius

wwest

At age 62 I was already having reluctance at accepting driving at night at typical posted speeds due to developing poor night vision. HID is a great help for that reason. And personally I would never think of not taking the effort to be sure my headlights (and windshield!)are clear and clean.

I have had VSC activate on wet pavement in a tight turn but I must admit I was pushing the gas a bit also. Even absent the VSC I don't think the incident would have been at all threatening.

But.

On a snow or ice covered roadbed IMMHO it is, would be, invaluable. But use it only as a cushion, if you begin to rely on it it will prove to be of no more use than a set of wider tires.

hans000

I am trying to install Autodim mirror with Homelink myself -- I have AM package and really wanted the Homelink. Got the parts for $260 from dealer, together with 12-page instruction. I have all the tools except "Nylon Panel Removal Tool", something to pry off some console panels. Does anyone know what it is and where to get it?

The instruction seems quite intimidating. I may have to have dealer do it but they can screw up too.

By the way, the HID headlight does help visbility at night.

backy

Like Mr. West, I like to keep my car's headlights clean (along with the rest of the car), and I don't consider cleaning them a chore--takes all of 10 seconds with a damp towel either at home or the gas station. As for driving in ice and snow, I've managed to do it for over 30 years without VSC. But then, I grew up driving in it. For someone who isn't used to it, I agree the added insurance of VSC might be helpful. But simply taking corners at a reasonable speed for conditions is much more important IMO.

As for the HID headlights--are you folks saying that the regular headlights on the Prius are not adequate for nighttime city driving? If so, maybe I should re-evalute my order and step up to a package that offers the HID headlights. My '99 GCS has pretty poor headlights (my Elantra's are great) and I don't want a repeat of that with the Prius.

john1701a

> I would never think of not taking the effort to be sure
> my headlights (and windshield!) are clear and clean

You don't understand. (Sorry I didn't provide more detail.)

The problem is the build-up that occurs DURING a single trip.

There literally is no opportunity to do the cleaning, because I haven't even gotten back home yet.

JOHN

john1701a

> are you folks saying that the regular headlights
> on the Prius are not adequate for nighttime city driving?

No, actually they are fantastic (based on 3 years experience with my 2001 Prius).

HID are even better though. They exceed the scale most people use to judge brightness on, giving it an 11 on a scale of 1 to 10.

The difference is EXACTLY like when halogens were first introduced. Everyone was doing fine with the old-fashion bulbs. Then when they saw halogen, they said "Whoa! I want those."

The lights on the back of Prius are like that too. Traditional bulbs are plenty good. But LEDs add a whole new dimension to the definition of clarity & responsiveness.

JOHN

backy

I think "fantastic" will be good enough for me. ;-) If the regular headlamps on the Prius are anything like what I have now on my Elantra, I'll be very happy with them.

murphy27

I will stay with the package 3 as the other options would be nice but I have to consider price. Also since I live in Miami, snow, hills, curves, etc. are not a factor. It is very flat here and I only drive on flat streets, no freeways. There is a lot of light at night from the street lights.

thanks for the advice.

djasonw

If you live in Southern Florida you really DON'T need HIDs. I go there quite often and it reminds me of the south shore of Long Island. Flat and tons of street lights. The only time I really appreciate the HIDs is when I am up in rural NE PA where the only lights you have are on your car.

texassalsa04

I am actually very happy with the basic headlights on my Prius. They are exceptionally bright. My wife commented to me when we first got the car and driving at night for me to turn off the high beams. I told her what she is seeing is not high beam lighting. On two recent occasions, I have had people flashed their high beams at me thinking that I had my high beams on (traffic going opposite direction). I must have shocked them because when I responded in kind by flashing my high beams back at them, they immediate turned off their high beams. The lights are great imo. I have seen the HID version when I rented a #9 TRAC Prius and yes, they are brighter, but the regular lamps are just fine. If there was an option to just get the HID by paying extra and being able to see how both versions work, I would have stuck with the basic lighting.

m4eth

The battery in the Prius is covered by an 8 year warranty...does anyone have any idea what the replacement cost of the individual cells are in the battery pack system? Also can one get an extended warranty to cover the battery pack to a 10 year period of time?

Mike

john1701a

Trying to determine the price of anything 8 years from now is extremely difficult.

Realistically, gas prices then will likely be much more of a concern, especially when you take into consideration that pack/module replacement may not ever be needed anyway.

Mass-Production as well as continued advancement in NiMH technology will keep pushing the price lower and lower.

JOHN

wwest

IT seems to me that the lower the car is, or the lower the headlamps are mounted, can have a very adverse effect on the headlamp viability. If reasonably high mounted they can have some down tilt and still give good forward low beam coverage. I'm not surprised that the Prius headlamps, low mounted as they are, are often recognized by on-coming drivers as high beams.

I noticed the new Porsche, VERY low mounted headlamps, have HIDs that tilt upward for high beam use. Not a bad idea.

wco81

If for some reason the batteries are drained?

Or does the ICE depend on the HSD batteries to start up?

john1701a

The battery-pack is what's used for starting the engine.

The 12-volt battery (which can be jumped just like with a traditional vehicle) is what starts the computer.

Recharging the battery-pack only takes about 3 minutes at 45 MPH or faster. And since the system doesn't allow discharge below 42 percent under normal conditions, there isn't a realistic opportunity to ever encounter a drained situation.

Another important fact to keep in mind is that the battery-pack disconnects itself whenever you power down. So a drain afterward isn't a concern.

Something else to remember is most of the electricity for propulsion comes from the engine, even when climbing hills. In fact, when climbing hills, the battery-pack normally gets recharged rather than being drain from. So the battery-pack isn't used anywhere near as much as you'd think it is.

JOHN

backy

One thing to keep in mind is the battery pack is warranted for 8 years or 100,000 miles. That does not mean the expected life of the battery pack is only 8 years or 100,000 miles. One of the requirements for the PZEV certification that the Prius passed is that the car and its systems, including the battery pack, pass a 150,000 mile durability test. So it's likely the battery pack will live beyond the warranty terms. Also, if only part of the pack fails, you can just replace that part.

drscientific

After over 7,000 miles in all sorts of weather, it's obvious that the gauge allows you to have about 9-10 gallons of gasoline before telling you to get more.

The documents say 11.9 gallons.

The discrepancy is around 3 gallons. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd really like to have those extra three gallons. They may be there, but the gauge says otherwise, and I truly hate running out of gas.

Does anyone have a good answer from Toyota?

john1701a

> Does anyone have a good answer from Toyota?

What are you expecting that hasn't already been told? And what does "good" actually mean?

The tank has been the same for all 4 years in the United States. The maximum of 11.9 gallons is correct. Whether you always have access to that entire capacity is nothing new; traditional tanks aren't completely empty when you run out of gas either.

Since Toyota doesn't advertise range at all anymore, not even maximum, it's not like a promise was broken. You basically get either the same or a little bit further range than you would with a traditional midsize vehicle, so a sacrifice isn't made either.

JOHN

backy

The gauge on my '99 Grand Caravan tells me to get more gas when there's more than five gallons left in the 20-gallon tank. When the gauge reads bone dry and the "DTE" display is at 0, I know from experience there's still a couple of gallons left. At first it bugged me that the gauge and computer were so pessimistic, but after awhile I chalked it up as an characteristic of the van and actually appreciated the fact that it might prevent me from running out of gas someday, since I like to run the gas tank lower than I reasonably should. Anyway, there are more important things for me to worry about...

OTOH, the little gas pump doesn't light up on my Elantra until there's only about a gallon left in the 14.2 gallon tank. Compared to that, I prefer the pessimistic approach of the van.

oldfox

I have posted this here and with the Yahoo Group.

Have read many posts indicating tht 42mph is the max one can go in true ev mode. Well... It just Ain't so.

Travelled from Hendersonville, NC to Tryon,NC all down hill. the battery charged up to the max, all green. Stayed this way for seveal miles. Finally hit flat land and was going 46 in ev mode - no engine at all. Could probably have gone above 46mph but failed to realize what was going on until too late - actually held the 45 and 46 stealth for 3/4 to 1 mile.

Hope I did not harm the battery- No real choice here all downhill about 7-10 miles.

Maybe this only happens on the rare instances when the battery is fully/over charged?

john1701a

Does everyone realize why it is so important not to?

If you do, the temptation is to simply keep driving, since Prius provides electric-only propulsion.

Driving without gas available means you are risking damage to the inverter or motor from overheating. That's obviously a very serious (and expensive) risk to take.

The other risk is that you are allowing the battery-pack to be deep-discharged. This is something the engine would normally prevent. But without gas, it can't. Draining the battery-pack that severely shortens it's life rather significantly.

So naturally, it is in Toyota's best interest to help prevent that type of abuse from happening. Nagging the driver to refill the tank sooner is an obvious simple preventative.

JOHN

jchan2

Honda is moving to have hybrid versions of each car it makes. (excluding S2000) There are plans for an Accord Hybrid, and a CR-V hybrid. That's a step!

m4eth

I asked one the the Toyota techs about battery replacement cost....he stated the total NiMH battery system may cost about $3000? Not sure if this is true...I wanted to know if anyone knows how many individual batteries are contained within the battery pack???

I also know that the next generation of batteries that may replace the NiMH is the Lithium Polymer (LiPo)...Lithium is the lightess of all metals known on EARTH and these are 1/2 the weight of the Nickle Metal Hydrides and promise better performance!

john1701a

> how many individual batteries are contained within
> the battery pack???

There are 28 modules in the 2004 Prius battery-pack. The module design is the key. Simply adding more is how the SUV hybrid will gain power. And they can automatically be individually ignored if one fails.

 
> Lithium Polymer (LiPo)

Notebook computer users have been dying for that battery technology. To finally have a powerful, lightweight Lithium battery that doesn't self-discharge will be wonderful.

And because of the size & price, don't expect to find them in hybrids until the computer industry begins using them in bulk first... which will be a great way to help lower the cost.

JOHN

wco81

I believe most of the higher end notebooks are already using this.

Nobody is using NiMH any more in computers, mostly Li Ion at least.

Even the little iPods use either Li Ion or Lithium Polymer.

bbridgewater

I ordered a Driftwood Package 8 on October 23, 2003 with the understanding that I would received delivery in 8-12 weeks. Now my dealer is telling me that due to unexpectedly high demaid, it could be the 2005 year before he gets an "allocation" that matches my order. He can't tell me anything (except of course that the $500 deposit is non-refundable). I've already sold my existing vehicle and am about to be on foot. Is there any way I can get my deposit back based on my giving it under my understanding of circumstances (delivery schedule) that have changed?

backy

Talk with the sales manager, if you haven't already done so. Since they can't provide you with a new Prius in the agreed-upon time, they cannot meet the terms of their contract with you and must return your deposit, which was your "consideration" for their promised delivery, or they will have breached the contract. If the sales manager is uncooperative, explain that you will have no choice but to file a complaint against the dealership with Toyota and are ready to take legal action (i.e. small claims court) for the breach of contract if necessary. It will help a lot if you have some form of written documentation, even an email, on the promised delivery date and other terms of your agreement--otherwise it's their word against yours. However, I think Toyota will be sympathetic to your situation, even if the dealer isn't, since they don't want to lose a customer.

BTW, it is unusual for such a deposit to be non-refundable. When I put my $500 deposit on my Prius, the salesman was clear that the deposit was refundable for any reason, and furthermore he suggested that I give him my credit card number only, not the card itself. He explained that if they swiped my card, the deposit would actually be charged to my credit card account. However, if they took only the number then they would not actually run the charge through my account. FWIW, it is always best to do deposits like this on a credit card. That way if you get any grief from the dealership about refunding the deposit, you can complain to the credit card company and they will investigate on your behalf.

bbridgewater

Thanks for the advice - they did actually just take my credit card number and haven't swiped it yet....I'll talk with them this week.

backy

Has the charge shown up on your credit card yet? Even if it has, you can challenge it with the cc company.

You might also talk with the sales manager to find out why they could not fulfill your order as promised and won't have a car for you until 2005. Mistakes happen; however, another possibility is that they gave "your" car to someone else, for whatever reason (long-time customer, higher offer etc.). That would be unconscionable if it is what happened, and I'm sure Toyota would want to know about it.

sam818

Has anyone had experience of fitting an aftermarket sunroof or moonroof to the 04 Prius. It appears that the curvature of the roof might make all but a factory option impossible. How about an external sliding sunroof a la Saturn?

hottmusic

I'm interested in hooking up an ipod in my new Prius that's to arrive in a few weeks. I really don't want to use a cassette adapter or FM modulator to hook it up, so does anyone know if the premium stereo (I'm getting the BC package) has aux inputs and what would be the best way to hook it up?
Thanks for any advice.

cdipaolo

I am interested in the AG package (#4) but also want the add'l airbags. Is it possible to have multiple packages? For example, GY & AG (#2 and #4)?

gscheil1

In the past, I have always purchased the "Platinum, Extra Care warranty" from my dealer. I am wondering if I should also purchase the same for my Seaside Pearl #9.
Has anyone purchased this?
If so,what is the term limit & the cost?
I know the cost varies from dealer to dealer and have not had a chance to talk to my dealer about it yet.

talleyid

I'm actually pursuing a definitive answer through the local dealer's Customer Relaations Manager. The Chicago area techs are expected back in the office today after vacations last week and I'm expecting a follow-up call once they've responded.

I realize I can use mileage as an indicator but I want to know what the actual design intent was for the gas gauge system. I don't mind driving with the last indicator blinking if I KNOW that I have that additional 3-4 gallons available. Will pass along any info I get.

bbridgewater

They have not charged my card, so I'm okay there. I have an appointment to talk to my salesperson this week and I'll discuss everything with him then. Thanks for letting me know it's possible to take issues over the dealership to Toyota if necessary. I'll keep you posted on whether or not this Tulsa dealership seems willing to work with me.

jtrew77

There is a chance that I will be offered a demo Prius with the exact package I've been waiting for. I know it's not ideal, but we're considering it. What discount off of the MSRP should I expect to get for a demo?

m4eth

Can someone tell me the color of the dash with the Ivory colored fabric interior. I was looking on the web and it appears the dash is a grey color even though the fabric is Ivory?

Mike

m4eth

I would like to know if one can purchase an extended warranty on the NiMH batteries...I know its covered for 8 years or 100,000 miles but some of us may hit the 100,000 mile marker in 5 years!

Since there are 28 cells that make up the pack and the rumor is the total replacement cost is about $3000 so each cell would cost about $100 to replace.

Also has anyone had experience using the car in Northern states...wear and tear on the batteries may be greater if exposed to temperature extremes during the winter and shorten the batteries life????

Mike

john1701a

> wear and tear on the batteries may be greater if exposed
> to temperature extremes during the winter and shorten
> the batteries life????

Actually, it's just the opposite.

NiMH enjoy the cold. (I know, this is Winter #4 for me with a Prius in Minnesota.)

The hot extremes will (apparently) shorten life. But none of the Arizona owners have had their Prius long enough. After 3 years, they all still work perfectly.

JOHN

backy

The upper dask is a dark, dark brown--that's why it looked grey/black on the web.

m4eth

John,

Are you 100% sure on the Hot versus Cold...I fly Radio Controlled Aircraft that use NiMH batteries to power the electric motor and they recommend keeping batteries warm for best performance during cold days...we also montitour the peak temperature since we don't like them to get too hot either.

Mike

m4eth

I checked the Tire Rack to see recommended tires for the Prius and recieved this message" Due to the unique technical aspects of this application, we are currently not accepting online orders for snow-tire and wheel packages for your 2004 Toyota Prius . Please call (888) 541-1777 to speak with one of our specialists about available products. "

I havn't called Tire Rack but does anyone know what the concern is?

Mike

john1701a

> Are you 100% sure on the Hot versus Cold

Yup!

You are mixing up capacity with what's better for the battery.

Cold decreases capacity, hence keeping them warm for "best performance".

Hot accelerates aging of the battery.

Both on this morning's commute and the commute home, the temperature here in Minnesota was only -2F DEGREES. But guess what, the capacity is much greater than what's needed for normal Prius operation anyway. So the extra capacity wasn't missed at all. Heck, I was even able to cruise along at 38 MPH using nothing but electricity for just about a 1/2 mile.

JOHN

sizzle_leem

...bought my silver Prius package #7 (at MSRP) from Miller Toyota or Culver City this past weekend. It wasn't the package I originally wanted (#9) but my dealer told me it was about a 5-6 month wait on those. I wasn't really willing to wait nor pay the $1000 premium over MSRP they said they would charge for package 9 whenever it came in. I checked with other dealers and most were either expecting 1-2 Prius shipments per month (with really long waiting lists) or were charging premiums (Toyota of N. Hollywood charging 2k over MSRP!). I was really interested in the Bluetooth features for use with my phone. For those lucky folks who were able to get it I am so jealous! I have been pretty pleased with the general feel and handling. As a former Tacoma driver, my expectations may not have been so high anyway. The car is so spacious!! I didn't realize the depth of space in the back during the test drive.

Based on the demand, I'm almost tempted (like amped) to re-sell my car for a profit and wait for the package I originally wanted. Then again, given all the waiting lists at these local dealerships, does anyone think Toyota's really going to produce enough 2004 cars to fulfill the demand? It seems like dealers making out like bandits with this leverage.

Also saw a Wall Street Journal article yesterday on the new hybrids (Highlander, Lexus Rx400H, and Ford Escape) with some early MPG estimates. They're saying the Lexus and Highlander hybrids should deliver V8-type performance and about 28 mpg each. It certainly won't be anywhere close to the fuel efficiency of the Prius, but nevertheless sounds pretty impressive for SUVs.

Also interested to hear how folks have "accessorized" their Priuses besides changing out the OEM tires. Has anyone upgraded from the standard audio system to the 6-disc deluxe found on package 9? Just wondering if there was any difference in the sound quality.

Thanks!!

bbridgewater

Heard last night on CBS news that there are currently 16,000 2004 Prius on backorder. I ordered mine in October...hope to see it someday...wahh.

dc8527

Hi, john1701a, the expert in Minnesota,

I drive my 2004 Prius in Minnesota, too. I powered it on in my garage (temperature = 10 F) The gas engine went on right away. I let it run idle for 5 minutes then reset the gas consumption data. I put on a heavy coat and turned off all acceories. Then I drove 5 miles on the flat city streets from Blaine to Fridley this morning. The outside temperature was 5 degrees F. There were 12 stop lights or signs in that 5 miles. My weight is about 150 pounds. There was no cargo in the car. The tires felt very hard and full. The gas milage at the end was 34.4 mpg. It seemed the temperature was the main factor that lowered the MPG. Here are my questions:

Was the oil still too thick after 5 minutes of idling? Was the grease too thick for other moving parts? Was the air too cold for efficient combustion? What would be the main factor that would consume so much more gas than advertized? How is your MPG these couple days here in Minnesota?

I called Toyota 2 weeks ago and leanred that low MPG in cold climate was a (common) concern. I was told Toyota enginneers were investigating into it and will have an answer mind Jananuary. I think Prius should change its name to Warm-Weather-Car.

Best Regards,

dc8527

john1701a

I've been averaging 43 MPG on the Multi-Display lately. 70 MPH on the highway (since the air is thicker) and lots of stoplights (since accleration is always consuming) are what have been the MPG killers. Suburb 30 to 55 MPH cruising is the sweet-zone.

Warmup is only 5 SECONDS long for me. I just start and begin driving moderately immediately. Then about 2 minutes later, the car is already showing signs of warm up. The beauty is that the electric system is favored in the cold. So the engine isn't stressed much like it would be in a traditional vehicle.

I'm using synthetic oil too. The provides an obvious benefit at -2F yesterday and 7F this morning.

As for the "advertised MPG", read the fine print. It says the temperature must be between 68F and 86F. We are obviously drastically below that ideal zone right now. All vehicles suffer in the cold; it is nothing new for Prius.

JOHN

m4eth

QUOTE...As for the "advertised MPG", read the fine print. It says the temperature must be between 68F and 86F. We are obviously drastically below that ideal zone right now. All vehicles suffer in the cold; it is nothing new for Prius.

Also Quote...34 mpg, 5 above 0, all accessories off, flat roads by dc8527

Wow John & dc8527...this means the car is optimized for fair weather driving and temperature extremes can have a real adverse effect on the car's MPG performance!!!!...I think you guys have conviced me to buy a conventional combustion engine car for now (let Toyota Engineers sort out the temperature issues)...since I drive mainly in Ohio and Michigan there will be 3-4 months when I'm outside the ideal operating window of this Hybrid and the Prius would get substandard MPG marks...looks like it's now a choice between the RAV4 or Forester.

Hybrid's may be somewhat premature for the Northern Climates at this time.

Thanks for everyones help.

cdipaolo

Ordered a Silver #6 w/floor mats for $22009. $23423 drive away which is MSRP + TTL/fees minus a small discount ($200) for going via Internet Sales.

Said that it would be 2-6 months (I'm assuming 6).

hans000

I was offered extended warranty for $1600. And I declined. I am glad I did: _afterward_ the salesman explained the standard warranty: many stuff are already covered beyond 3/36.

As some people already pointed out, it can be purchased late from different dealers.

jrct9454

...if you want to get better fuel consumption in any weather, you start by not idling for five minutes before driving off!

Absolutely no reason in the world to let the engine sit there using fuel and going nowhere, no matter what the temps. I agree that a syn-oil will help, but my advice is to fire it up, drive off at a moderate speed, and let the systems work the way they are supposed to. Having said that, 34+ mpg under the circumstances described seems pretty good to me, rather than something to complain about...