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I have had VSC activate on wet pavement in a tight turn but I must admit I was pushing the gas a bit also. Even absent the VSC I don't think the incident would have been at all threatening.
But.
On a snow or ice covered roadbed IMMHO it is, would be, invaluable. But use it only as a cushion, if you begin to rely on it it will prove to be of no more use than a set of wider tires.
The instruction seems quite intimidating. I may have to have dealer do it but they can screw up too.
By the way, the HID headlight does help visbility at night.
As for the HID headlights--are you folks saying that the regular headlights on the Prius are not adequate for nighttime city driving? If so, maybe I should re-evalute my order and step up to a package that offers the HID headlights. My '99 GCS has pretty poor headlights (my Elantra's are great) and I don't want a repeat of that with the Prius.
> my headlights (and windshield!) are clear and clean
You don't understand. (Sorry I didn't provide more detail.)
The problem is the build-up that occurs DURING a single trip.
There literally is no opportunity to do the cleaning, because I haven't even gotten back home yet.
JOHN
> on the Prius are not adequate for nighttime city driving?
No, actually they are fantastic (based on 3 years experience with my 2001 Prius).
HID are even better though. They exceed the scale most people use to judge brightness on, giving it an 11 on a scale of 1 to 10.
The difference is EXACTLY like when halogens were first introduced. Everyone was doing fine with the old-fashion bulbs. Then when they saw halogen, they said "Whoa! I want those."
The lights on the back of Prius are like that too. Traditional bulbs are plenty good. But LEDs add a whole new dimension to the definition of clarity & responsiveness.
JOHN
thanks for the advice.
Mike
Realistically, gas prices then will likely be much more of a concern, especially when you take into consideration that pack/module replacement may not ever be needed anyway.
Mass-Production as well as continued advancement in NiMH technology will keep pushing the price lower and lower.
JOHN
I noticed the new Porsche, VERY low mounted headlamps, have HIDs that tilt upward for high beam use. Not a bad idea.
Or does the ICE depend on the HSD batteries to start up?
The 12-volt battery (which can be jumped just like with a traditional vehicle) is what starts the computer.
Recharging the battery-pack only takes about 3 minutes at 45 MPH or faster. And since the system doesn't allow discharge below 42 percent under normal conditions, there isn't a realistic opportunity to ever encounter a drained situation.
Another important fact to keep in mind is that the battery-pack disconnects itself whenever you power down. So a drain afterward isn't a concern.
Something else to remember is most of the electricity for propulsion comes from the engine, even when climbing hills. In fact, when climbing hills, the battery-pack normally gets recharged rather than being drain from. So the battery-pack isn't used anywhere near as much as you'd think it is.
JOHN
The documents say 11.9 gallons.
The discrepancy is around 3 gallons. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'd really like to have those extra three gallons. They may be there, but the gauge says otherwise, and I truly hate running out of gas.
Does anyone have a good answer from Toyota?
What are you expecting that hasn't already been told? And what does "good" actually mean?
The tank has been the same for all 4 years in the United States. The maximum of 11.9 gallons is correct. Whether you always have access to that entire capacity is nothing new; traditional tanks aren't completely empty when you run out of gas either.
Since Toyota doesn't advertise range at all anymore, not even maximum, it's not like a promise was broken. You basically get either the same or a little bit further range than you would with a traditional midsize vehicle, so a sacrifice isn't made either.
JOHN
OTOH, the little gas pump doesn't light up on my Elantra until there's only about a gallon left in the 14.2 gallon tank. Compared to that, I prefer the pessimistic approach of the van.
Have read many posts indicating tht 42mph is the max one can go in true ev mode. Well... It just Ain't so.
Travelled from Hendersonville, NC to Tryon,NC all down hill. the battery charged up to the max, all green. Stayed this way for seveal miles. Finally hit flat land and was going 46 in ev mode - no engine at all. Could probably have gone above 46mph but failed to realize what was going on until too late - actually held the 45 and 46 stealth for 3/4 to 1 mile.
Hope I did not harm the battery- No real choice here all downhill about 7-10 miles.
Maybe this only happens on the rare instances when the battery is fully/over charged?
If you do, the temptation is to simply keep driving, since Prius provides electric-only propulsion.
Driving without gas available means you are risking damage to the inverter or motor from overheating. That's obviously a very serious (and expensive) risk to take.
The other risk is that you are allowing the battery-pack to be deep-discharged. This is something the engine would normally prevent. But without gas, it can't. Draining the battery-pack that severely shortens it's life rather significantly.
So naturally, it is in Toyota's best interest to help prevent that type of abuse from happening. Nagging the driver to refill the tank sooner is an obvious simple preventative.
JOHN
I also know that the next generation of batteries that may replace the NiMH is the Lithium Polymer (LiPo)...Lithium is the lightess of all metals known on EARTH and these are 1/2 the weight of the Nickle Metal Hydrides and promise better performance!
> the battery pack???
There are 28 modules in the 2004 Prius battery-pack. The module design is the key. Simply adding more is how the SUV hybrid will gain power. And they can automatically be individually ignored if one fails.
> Lithium Polymer (LiPo)
Notebook computer users have been dying for that battery technology. To finally have a powerful, lightweight Lithium battery that doesn't self-discharge will be wonderful.
And because of the size & price, don't expect to find them in hybrids until the computer industry begins using them in bulk first... which will be a great way to help lower the cost.
JOHN
Nobody is using NiMH any more in computers, mostly Li Ion at least.
Even the little iPods use either Li Ion or Lithium Polymer.
BTW, it is unusual for such a deposit to be non-refundable. When I put my $500 deposit on my Prius, the salesman was clear that the deposit was refundable for any reason, and furthermore he suggested that I give him my credit card number only, not the card itself. He explained that if they swiped my card, the deposit would actually be charged to my credit card account. However, if they took only the number then they would not actually run the charge through my account. FWIW, it is always best to do deposits like this on a credit card. That way if you get any grief from the dealership about refunding the deposit, you can complain to the credit card company and they will investigate on your behalf.
You might also talk with the sales manager to find out why they could not fulfill your order as promised and won't have a car for you until 2005. Mistakes happen; however, another possibility is that they gave "your" car to someone else, for whatever reason (long-time customer, higher offer etc.). That would be unconscionable if it is what happened, and I'm sure Toyota would want to know about it.
Thanks for any advice.
Has anyone purchased this?
If so,what is the term limit & the cost?
I know the cost varies from dealer to dealer and have not had a chance to talk to my dealer about it yet.
I realize I can use mileage as an indicator but I want to know what the actual design intent was for the gas gauge system. I don't mind driving with the last indicator blinking if I KNOW that I have that additional 3-4 gallons available. Will pass along any info I get.
Mike
Since there are 28 cells that make up the pack and the rumor is the total replacement cost is about $3000 so each cell would cost about $100 to replace.
Also has anyone had experience using the car in Northern states...wear and tear on the batteries may be greater if exposed to temperature extremes during the winter and shorten the batteries life????
Mike
> to temperature extremes during the winter and shorten
> the batteries life????
Actually, it's just the opposite.
NiMH enjoy the cold. (I know, this is Winter #4 for me with a Prius in Minnesota.)
The hot extremes will (apparently) shorten life. But none of the Arizona owners have had their Prius long enough. After 3 years, they all still work perfectly.
JOHN
Are you 100% sure on the Hot versus Cold...I fly Radio Controlled Aircraft that use NiMH batteries to power the electric motor and they recommend keeping batteries warm for best performance during cold days...we also montitour the peak temperature since we don't like them to get too hot either.
Mike
I havn't called Tire Rack but does anyone know what the concern is?
Mike
Yup!
You are mixing up capacity with what's better for the battery.
Cold decreases capacity, hence keeping them warm for "best performance".
Hot accelerates aging of the battery.
Both on this morning's commute and the commute home, the temperature here in Minnesota was only -2F DEGREES. But guess what, the capacity is much greater than what's needed for normal Prius operation anyway. So the extra capacity wasn't missed at all. Heck, I was even able to cruise along at 38 MPH using nothing but electricity for just about a 1/2 mile.
JOHN
Based on the demand, I'm almost tempted (like amped) to re-sell my car for a profit and wait for the package I originally wanted. Then again, given all the waiting lists at these local dealerships, does anyone think Toyota's really going to produce enough 2004 cars to fulfill the demand? It seems like dealers making out like bandits with this leverage.
Also saw a Wall Street Journal article yesterday on the new hybrids (Highlander, Lexus Rx400H, and Ford Escape) with some early MPG estimates. They're saying the Lexus and Highlander hybrids should deliver V8-type performance and about 28 mpg each. It certainly won't be anywhere close to the fuel efficiency of the Prius, but nevertheless sounds pretty impressive for SUVs.
Also interested to hear how folks have "accessorized" their Priuses besides changing out the OEM tires. Has anyone upgraded from the standard audio system to the 6-disc deluxe found on package 9? Just wondering if there was any difference in the sound quality.
Thanks!!
I drive my 2004 Prius in Minnesota, too. I powered it on in my garage (temperature = 10 F) The gas engine went on right away. I let it run idle for 5 minutes then reset the gas consumption data. I put on a heavy coat and turned off all acceories. Then I drove 5 miles on the flat city streets from Blaine to Fridley this morning. The outside temperature was 5 degrees F. There were 12 stop lights or signs in that 5 miles. My weight is about 150 pounds. There was no cargo in the car. The tires felt very hard and full. The gas milage at the end was 34.4 mpg. It seemed the temperature was the main factor that lowered the MPG. Here are my questions:
Was the oil still too thick after 5 minutes of idling? Was the grease too thick for other moving parts? Was the air too cold for efficient combustion? What would be the main factor that would consume so much more gas than advertized? How is your MPG these couple days here in Minnesota?
I called Toyota 2 weeks ago and leanred that low MPG in cold climate was a (common) concern. I was told Toyota enginneers were investigating into it and will have an answer mind Jananuary. I think Prius should change its name to Warm-Weather-Car.
Best Regards,
dc8527
Warmup is only 5 SECONDS long for me. I just start and begin driving moderately immediately. Then about 2 minutes later, the car is already showing signs of warm up. The beauty is that the electric system is favored in the cold. So the engine isn't stressed much like it would be in a traditional vehicle.
I'm using synthetic oil too. The provides an obvious benefit at -2F yesterday and 7F this morning.
As for the "advertised MPG", read the fine print. It says the temperature must be between 68F and 86F. We are obviously drastically below that ideal zone right now. All vehicles suffer in the cold; it is nothing new for Prius.
JOHN
Also Quote...34 mpg, 5 above 0, all accessories off, flat roads by dc8527
Wow John & dc8527...this means the car is optimized for fair weather driving and temperature extremes can have a real adverse effect on the car's MPG performance!!!!...I think you guys have conviced me to buy a conventional combustion engine car for now (let Toyota Engineers sort out the temperature issues)...since I drive mainly in Ohio and Michigan there will be 3-4 months when I'm outside the ideal operating window of this Hybrid and the Prius would get substandard MPG marks...looks like it's now a choice between the RAV4 or Forester.
Hybrid's may be somewhat premature for the Northern Climates at this time.
Thanks for everyones help.
Said that it would be 2-6 months (I'm assuming 6).
As some people already pointed out, it can be purchased late from different dealers.
Absolutely no reason in the world to let the engine sit there using fuel and going nowhere, no matter what the temps. I agree that a syn-oil will help, but my advice is to fire it up, drive off at a moderate speed, and let the systems work the way they are supposed to. Having said that, 34+ mpg under the circumstances described seems pretty good to me, rather than something to complain about...