Audi A3

wale_bate1

I've seen A3 ads on the morning news four of the last nine days (KPIX for you an' me Nippon). So they are committing some ad bucks to TV, but certainly, they are reliant on buzz on this one.

I'm hoping for huge success after they moderate the price a bit.
;-]

307web

I saw an ad on the front page of MSN.com today.
With other cars, I've seen the ads previewing the car first.
With this car, ads are coming out after the car has already been at dealers for a little while.

rcatiggay

Thats curious about A3 being on left on lots.... Up here in seattle, I'm interested in the A3 and wanted to give a test drive tomorrow, but all the dealerships around told me that they had sold out of their first allotment. Not even a demo to test drive and kick the tires. Outside of special orders, the next lot due would be early august. Hopefully be then the prices will have come down..

kyfdx

the dealer in Cincinnati had seven of them...

nippononly

wale, for me it's the channel two news all the way! :-P

And on channel two, I have seen an ad with a rather beautiful looking red A4 cruising the backroads every morning this week.

My local dealer is selling A3's, I see the stock turning over, although they never run right out - that Seattle thing is weird. Why don't they order more? Deliveries are coming regularly at my local dealer.

kurtamaxxguy

A3 senario sounds like most new products. Chevy had same problems with Malibu Maxx.

Given time Audi dealers should have more A3 and perhaps feel less need to pack them full of options. Ones described here are overkill for me, save for AWD drive version comming and we'll see what happens with those!

Incidently, an Edmunds an article mentioned VWOA's primary goal this year is to improve profitability. They can do it via increased manufacuring efficiency, or use higher prices and less discounting, or both.
Perhaps same policy is going on with Audi since they are a "premium" division of VW?

As for the 9-2X Aero, all comments here convinced me to pass on it.. I've been in the Suburau version and in heavy traffic it's a pain (loves to lurch, squeak and rattle). On open roads, it's nice, but they're not where I have to drive.

wale_bate1

Obviously KTVU is catering to a slightly older crowd, Nippon.
[-P

Audi's US dealerships are not profitible, so speculation on pricing seems valid to me. I wouldn't expect to see a wide range of set-ups coming in the future. I think they're going to sell to the most common criteria, hence the packers and the strippers. Anything in between will most often have to be special ordered. I don't find that all that uncommon, especially in lux circles.

acorin88

In the DC-area this has not been my experience. I checked two dealers in the area and they each had about a dozen A3s on the lot (around Memorial Day) with several available at around $30k (sport or premium + winter and DSG or Xenons etc). I ended up getting one that stickered at roughly $32k for about $1k off of that, and since then I've heard of even better deals, so there is negotiating to be done.

I agree that their marketing approach has been "interesting" for this car - which given the success of the Mini and Scion brands (at least in urban areas) it would seem like Audi could afford to be more aggressive, both on marketing, pricing and expected volumes. I've totally hated the "stolen A3" campaign, but have been happy to see ">" adds showing up on Comedy Central and other places on cable.

That having been said, I think my car is worth every penny I paid for it - it's been a blast (bummed I don't see my review up yet, posted some time ago). If they re-structure their packages for 2006-07 (with greater flexibility), they might even be able to go to the Mini model of 75%+ cars being ordered rather than purchased off the lot.

kurtamaxxguy

Interesting...Audi has been saying their sales have been very good. Wouldn't that help dealers make a decent profit?

Supposedly Porsche makes $20K per car (not sure if that is factory or dealer biased, though).

matchek

Check out page 23 of this brochure (German only though...):
http://audia3.net/misc/a3acc.pdf
Looks like chains are available....

grc1

Will the 2.0T FSI in Quattro be available as an option in 06?

kurtamaxxguy

Yup, definitely seems that way in Germany. Thanks for the reference!
Why the USA importer makes finding this info out so difficult is beyond me (then again perhaps it's buried in some of their literature).

matchek

Do you guys like it?

acorin88

So far, my understanding is that the A3 will not be coming over to the US in 2.0t/quattro form. What I've read elsewhere is that the gas tank is set up differently than the FWD model and as a result it would need a new certification to be brought over here. My personal opinion only is that if the A3 meets its sales targets in its current form, they'll make the 2.0T quattro happen down the line.

On another topic - the Beige paint, I really like it - my first test drive was in a beige A3 and it looks much better in person than on the Audi website or in pictures (the only problem was it had beige interior as well and I really wanted black). I ended up going with Moro Blue, but the dakar beige was right up there.

kurtamaxxguy

So Audi is not going to have a Quadro AWD A3 in the USA after all?

blueguydotcom

Quattro 2.0T is not planned. only the 3.2

kyfdx

I personally think that is a big mistake.. I haven't driven one yet, but from all reports the 2.0T is a big improvement from the 1.8T.. I can't believe they won't hook Quattro up to it in the A3...

Haven't they heard? AWD is the next big thing!!

kurtamaxxguy

Makes sense to me, but market seems to want RWD and biggest engine possible. Makes for great drifting but not power transfer.

Good to hear at least one version of A3 will have AWD.

rjlaero

I thought the 2.0 Quattro A3's will be made available in Dec/Jan in the U.S. Maybe Audi changed it's plans, but I thought they were following thru on it.

It doesn't make sense that only the 3.2's will have Quattro. That's going to be a big jump in price (probably 5k or so over the 2.0). The Quattro adds about 2k in price to the current A4 line-up for the 4 cylinder cars. That's a much easier jump and I think Audi would do really well with the 2.0 Quattro A3 in the States.

kyfdx

No argument from me.. but, they are saying only the 3.2 will have it..

wale_bate1

Well, it makes sense if you really want to sell a pricier 3.2 and better your profit margins! ;-]

Count me in as a potential sucker I s'pose. While I like the idea of a Quattro 2.0T (chipped of course, for BGDC's sake!) DSG, if I have to go 3.2 to get Quattro I will, assuming the fun factor is there.

I have a natural affinity for sixes anyway....

dino001

It all shows how clueless execs sometimes can be in their pursuit of profitability margin. A3 3.2 Quattro w/ DSG and premium/leather/sunroof will probably cost as much (or even more!) as totally loaded A4 2.0 quattro or base A4 3.2. This is the same kind of garbage as VW Phaeton vs A8 or possibly new Passat V6 vs. A4. What is the thinking there, I really don't know.

In my opinion, A3 had a very good potential of being a car but with initially low volume but such buzz that many single young professionals who make money but not enough to simply throw it hand over fist (think engineers in middle America, making $45-$60) would be willing to consider it as practical and "premium" alternative to a "family sedan" or sporty coupe. Think top price of $30-32K fully loaded with typical well equipped config in $28-$30 range. Instead, Audi is seemingly going after big shots from Boston/New York, or simply rich kids, who make/spend $100K/year in their late 20s. Good luck with that. Just ask yourself how big this market is and who is your competition. The former: WRX/9-2X, Acura RSX and TSX, Volvo S40/V50 2.4i, loaded Mazda6, not many more. The latter: BMW 3, Mercedes C, their own A4. As much as I like A3 (and I do), I can say it stands no chance against those, even if it costs a few grand less. In the first segment, thousand-two more for nicer design would be OK, five to eight - no way.

$25.5K fo base seems to be high, but it is not so bad, when quick market correction will bring this to the dealer's invoice. However, the option pricing is simply insane, especially with tying sunroof and others to leather seats. Greed is good only when controlled by reason.

rjlaero

Audi isn't giving dealers much room on invoice prices, as the average A3 has about $1700 of mark-up. I doubt you'll see any dealer money or incentives on the A3 anytime soon. Some parts of the country may have slow A3 sales, but some places can't keep them in stock and they sell for MSRP. May depend which part of the country your're in.

I think the A3 is pretty fairly priced and the options don't reek of greed to me. On the contrary to what you said, you can get the open-sky roof as a stand alone option on the cloth interior A3 without getting any other pricey options.

A 6 speed A3 with open sky, xenons, premium pckg., bose, & cold weather is about 31 grand. With a 4/50 warranty and 4/50 free maintenace, that's not a bad deal. Not cheap, but not "greed", IMO.

carquery

I'm looking to ditch my Subaru Outback now that I have two carseats in the back (the cabin now feels very cramped). I've been poking around the Audi A3 and really like the way it looks and the reviews mention the back seat being fairly roomy.

I'm wondering if any of the owners out there have kids in the back and can comment on the reality of using the A3 as a family car. I don't mind the small trunk (the other car is the hauler in the family).

Any input would be great...thanks!

nyccarguy

Here in the Northeast, which I would imagine is Audi's BIGGEST market here in the US (I might be wrong), people are AWD crazy. I can't tell you how many Subarus, Xi BMWs, & 4matic MBs, in addition to tons of Audis which all have Quattro I see on a daily basis. The only time I see a FWD Audi is when the car has plates from down south (Georgia, Florida). It would not be a good move on their part not to offer AWD with the 2.0T.

rjlaero

Unfortunately, I confirmed today that Audi won't be bringing the 2.0 A3 Quattro to the States. You'll have to pony up for the 3.2 DSG automatic to get Quattro.

The 3.2 Quattro A3's should hit dealer showrooms in mid-November.

stickguy

I think that if an Outback is too small for you, forget the A3. It probably is even smaller in back. Fine for kids that are out of car seats though.

fwdfan

As someone who is not to savvy on AWDs, can someone explain to me why so many seem to want this car in AWD? I love the A3 and can't wait to get one. I did look at some AWDs like the outback, but decided I didn't need AWD. It seems to me that unless you live someplace like New England that gets hammered in the winter, or you actually do a lot of driving off-road, then AWD is overkill. I live in Ohio and we get the occational dumping of snow in the winter but I could probably count on one hand the number of times I would actually NEED AWD. The other 360 days of the year I can be getting better performance and better gas mileage (very important) from FWD. My choice - I'll just stay home those 5 days. IMHO many americans who are driving around outbacks and such have some fantasy of being much more "outdoorsy" than they really are and imagine themselves doing a lot of offroading. Again, not an expert when it comes to cars. Is there some other benefit to AWD past snowy conditions and driving unpaved roads?

kyfdx

Mostly because we aren't fans of FWD...

If the car were RWD, no one would complain..

It really has nothing to do with winter weather... The Audis with Quattro generally have more neutral handling than the FWD models...

stickguy

people swear by it on general principals, and basically feel it gives more balanced handling. There are some limitations, but overall it's probably personal preference.

On the A3, the biggest improvement would probably be eliminating spinning the tires off the line. Lots of torque + FWD = bad news usually.

I agree that RWD for a performance car is best. But, if you live in a heavy snow area, AWD can be handy.

stickguy

how the heck did I make that message come out in bold?

kyfdx

You must be special!!

stickguy

I already new that!

Must have hit the format button by mistake. Us special people sometimes do things like that.

wale_bate1

Well, at least I know what to tell my wife when she gives me that look (yeah, that look): "I'm special; deal with it".

+.02: in agreement with the above, I'm in RWD now, and frankly, I consider it a sacrifice to entertain even AWD notions. I spent too many years settling for FWD and rationalizing it somehow. AWD at least mitigates some of the pain... ;-]

dino001

Main misconception about AWD is that many still seem to think that it is for off-road driving. AWD is a system created for higher speeds to efficiently transfer power to those wheels that have the best traction at the moment. There are several solutions (mechanical, electronic, combination) with all their proprietary names (Torsen, Haldex, etc.), but it comes to "full time" (Audi, Subaru, BMW xi, MB 4matic), where there is some predetermined split (say 50/50 or 40-60, etc.) and "part time" (Infinity G35x, Volvo S40 T5 AWD), where in normal conditions the power goes to rear or front and is transferred to other wheels only when traction is compromised. In both cases the main purpose is to improve stability and handling at higher speeds ON ROADS. Those systems may be somwehat OK off-road, but they are not created with this in mind. In fact, first real big application of AWD was in World Rally Racing with Audi Quattro. It was so superior to other drives that reportedly on first trials they though their stopwatches were broken.

Now, in mountain regions and snow belt, the road surface is often slippery. Now you can see, if you lose traction in your drive wheels on 2WD, there nothing you can do, but try to steer, slow down and pray. On AWD, the system will be "looking" for traction and often find it before you even know there was a problem (assuming the driver idiot factor is within normal parameters).

Why do people cry for AWD on Audi? Because non-quattro Audi is like non-alcoholic beer. AWD is what made them famous, it is their contribution to the automotive world.

I hope this helps all FWD/RWD fans understand why we like quattro so much.

ralpher

And moved to southern california, I do not miss the AWD on the Audi. The fuel economy on two Imprezas I've owned is frankly horrible by comparison.

fwdfan

Thanks for the explaination. I do understand a bit better now why its so attractive to people - for road driving. I'll still go with the '06 A3. If it came with AWD and 2.0 I'd consider it, but the price jump the A3 will make going to 3.2L, 6C and AWD will put it out of my range.

ralpher

The 3.2L is called the S3, isn't it? That's what the dealer told me. That's how they can justify a cost higher approaching $40K..

wale_bate1

Shouldn't be. Should be just an A3 3.2. I would expect the S3 variant to have more like 275 horses, rather than the 250 of the 3.2.

I'll take the 3.2 and the Quattro. At least I think I will. Have to see come January or so.
:-]

edwardsf

Mr. Martin, That was a great post and has helped convince me to go ... FWD. Well, almost. I like the funky space thing with the A3 but you aficionados (even the Wale bates who seem to be about ready to buy an Audi for 3 years) have got me thinking AWD. Volareguy, you have laid the AWD v. FWD issue out quite well and there is one little footnote like sentence that you use that may be key there -

Now, in mountain regions and snow belt, the road surface is often slippery.

How many areas of the country really experience these conditions? Not the west coast, the south, much of the the midAtlantic, the southwest and the land of Chads. So why is Quattro a must-have if you live in one of those latter areas? Is it because the feel of high speed balance is simply preferable? Or is it Is it because one simply does not do Audi FWD? Ya can't tell the neighbor that you bought a sissy FWD, no? This is why so many 5-2 little blond ladies drive 4500 lb. SUVs and it is, of course, ridiculous. "Oh, it rains a lot here." "Oh, I got to Tahoe or Mt. Hood or the Great Smokies twice a year." The Quattro means $2Gs and 4 miles less per gallon/more carbon dioxide emissions and all mean something - especiallly the pollution.

So, after the ramble, here is the question. Does Quattro make a difference on dry curvy roads at moderate to fast speeds? Does it make a difference on highways or slightly curvy roads in the rain at moderate speeds? And how big a difference? (BTW, I am always trying to get BMWs out of my torquedriven Saab's way, so if I got an AWD, I might be scary).

Thanks folks.

allhorizon

I think that if an Outback is too small for you, forget the A3. It probably is even smaller in back. Fine for kids that are out of car seats though.

I assume "carquery" was talking about the Impreza-based Outback, not the Legacy-based version.

rjlaero wrote:
Unfortunately, I confirmed today that Audi won't be bringing the 2.0 A3 Quattro to the States.

"There are no plans to bring..." simply means that - it doesn't mean Audi is definitely not bringing it here. I am holding out for a while, and may buy the 5-door GTI or Golf 2.0FSI instead, if the 2.0 A3 quattro doesn't make it here soon. I have stated before that this could end up as a self-fulfilling prophecy: with the current model line-up, they are measuring a smaller than possible market share for the A3, and they will be seeing smaller than possible sales for the A3 quattro, as well. They are also alienating traditional Audi fans.

As to the usefulness of quattro:
- some parts of the West coast (e.g. parts of the Bay Area and North) do have a lot of hilly, winding roads that have sand, leaves, or some water on them much of the year - in which case quattro is an added safety feature even w/o snow
- the Haldex quattro of the A3 does not waste all that much gas - about 15% (same in C02 emissions). It's certainly a lot less of a difference than going to the 6-cyl engine!
- depending on the power and weight of a car, you can feel the AWD difference very clearly also on dry roads. It's not a matter of how fast you drive, but how much gas you give when driving around turns. If you never power through turns, the FWD version is probably the better option for you unless you have a lot of snow. In fact, with the new rear suspension, the FWD is actually quite neutral up to the limit - except, that you may as well get a Golf or GTI. If you like driving through turns (especially uphill) quickly, AWD feels completely different from FWD even on dry roads. I like it better than RWD, because it is the best of both worlds and is safer and gives better traction in all situations.

kb5ql

Read my review You can see pics of 2 car seats in the back ( 1 infant carrier and 1 britax behemoth). Just finished a trip from Bay Area to LA with all 4 seats used with no problems. My wife and I are both over 6 feet tall. The back seat has more room than my B5 Audi A4. Hope this helps.

dino001

I love AWD on my WRX. I hate the fuel consumption, of course. Price to pay for superior grip. And I live in... Florida. Pretty useless you might say. Wait until it rains! To say it short, my speed limiting factor is usually visibility, not the road grip and I quickly pitty all those poor others barely getting by.

BTW, AWD is also installed in real performance cars, like World Rally (unknown to Americans, but big everywhere else), or say Porsche. Anybody, who ever launch an AWD car from a dead stop knows why. Not a lot of rubber burning, but a lot of speed very fast. Still, for traditional drag strip racing, RWD is better, when real curves come in play regardless of the surface condition, AWD is a real contender (the worse the surface, the better for AWD).

kyfdx

..on the Subies, is more attributable to their engines than the AWD... They just aren't very fuel efficient engines...

The diffference on the Audi A3 will be neglible, I think... assuming the same engine and transmission choice...

regards,
kyfdx

quincy1

Am getting close to deciding on the A3, and am trying to get my hands on some nice, tabulated reliability data. Obviously this would come from sources outside of North America. Is there a European version of consumer reports or something similar? Thanks.

matchek

I read somewhere that all a3s built week 26 (right about now) onwards would come standard with Bluetooth. What exactly is the package being offered? anyone know?

kurtamaxxguy

Would be interested in knowing reliability stats as well, as that has been an Audi weak point, at least with USA models.

Then again, any car has more problems in its first year than later on. Hopefully Audi will be helpful and responsive in getting them resolved.

misterjj

I checked out both the Audi A3 and the Acura TSX. Here's my impression of both cars;
I test drove the A3 with sport package and DSG. The car was overall very nice on inside and out. I absolutely LOVED the DSG transmission. I've been a diehard manual transmission fan because I just don't like the way a normal automatic transmission behaves but I think the DSG is the greatest thing since sliced bread. The engine was no slouch either. It could easiliy tear the wheels loose from the pavement but the traction control kept things smoothly under control. One thing though, you have to give the car more than a round-the-block try. It seems a little odd starting from a stop because you are expecting the rolling start that the torque converter normally gives you in an automatic. Instead, it tends to give a little jump like when you let the clutch out a little too fast on a manual. I got used to it right away though and I suspect it may get a little smoother as the clutch plates get a little wear on them. One negative I found was that it was a bit jittery on bumps so I was unsure of sticking with the sport package.
Next I checked out the TSX. A very nice car as well. My first impression is that this car has nearly identical specs as the A3 with weight and engine horsepower being nearly identical, looks that are equally as good on the inside and out, more standard features on the TSX, and the TSX is cheaper too! Not to mention a better reputation for reliability! Then I went for a test drive... What a disappointment! It felt so sluggish compared to the A3. It was simply blah. (Afterwards I looked up the specs and found the story behind this; both cars have 200hp but the A3 gets a torque of 207 @ 1800RPM while the TSX only gets 166 and not until 4500RPM). The biggest example was cruising at about 45MPH and stepping on the gas. The A3 dropped down 2 gears nearly instaneously (may have been 3 as it's so fast it's hard to tell), and just took off. The TSX with the same situation dropped down one gear, gave bearly a little grunt of acceleration, then dropped down another gear and almost immediatly hit redline and had to up-shift again to finally start speeding up. It would have been nerve wracking or even car wrecking if I was trying to get out of the way of a semi!
So I went back to Audi and drove the non-sport A3 which had been reviewed as being a bit soft on the curves. I did a few u-turns and hard turns but felt very comfortable with the handling so I think I'm going to stick with the premium package.
Bottom line is that I couldn't see buying a car with any transmission other than the DSG. It really does make every other transmission obsolete. Now... I just need to decide on which color!

slax

Just my opinion, but I was incredibly disappointed with the 9-2X. I drove a loaded Aero that I could have driven off the lot for $25K and I wouldn't have bought it for $20K. The S40 and A3 both have much better fit and finish and the A3 engine has no peer in this price class. I'm still wrestling between the S40 and A3, but if I can scrape up enough cash to get the DSG along with the other options I want, that will be my ride.

nismor

does anybody have or know if the base model with dsg with 4 spoke steering wheel comes with paddle shifting too?

thanks