Audi A3

jrct9454

Well, I guess I'm the only one who actually READS what Consumer Reports writes along with their charts and graphs. They DO differentiate between the seriousness of problems - drivetrain problems are weighted much more heavily than trim or body issues. They have a weighting system for each of the major problem categories they cite in the charts.

What's idiotic is to quote statistics without knowing the basis of the data. That's why CU religiously explains how they get and use the data, in exhaustive detail.

J D Power, on the other hand, does indeed rate every problem, no matter how trivial, as equal to every other one, in the infamous Intitial Quality Survey. A lousy cupholder deisgn counts as much as a failed drivetrain component. They've started to talk about changing their methodology because they've gotten a lot of gas over this approach, but so far, it's just talk.

I've owned 50+ cars in 40+ years, including everything German and Japanese, most of them multiple times over. My experience backs up the data - no German car of any badge is going to promise as little trouble as your typical Honda or Toyota. Period. That said, I drive an '02 MB C240, because it offers a combination of qualities that the Japanese have a hard time duplicating at this price point [the Lexus IS, for example, handles well but has a rocky, unacceptable ride on crappy surfaces]. For these reasons, I think the A3 is an excellent choice in its price range, and drives extremely well, and is on my short list now that MB has discontinued the C-class wagon in the US market. BUT....I would never pretend that any German car is "reliable" or "inexpensive to own" compared to the main Japanese competition. You buy these cars in spite of their likely problems, not because you think there won't be any.

VW has acknowledged that it has a lot of work to do on these issues - Audi uses the same components and has the same issues; Audi dealers, at least, seem to have a better reputation in this country than VW dealers, but that, I'm afraid, isn't saying much. I'd probably be driving a diesel Passat right now if I thought I could trust the local VW guy to be able to find his butt with both hands in the event of one of the many known problems cropping up in my car - but I don't, so I'm not.

Anyway, I think the DSG is the greatest thing since sliced bread - win-win. Fast, effortless, as much control as you want or as much convenience as you need. Can't imagine buying the car without it.

misterjj

"Automatic... Automatic... Automatic...
We aren't talking clutches..."

But then you are NOT talking about a DSG transmission which is not, not, not an "automatic" since it has clutches, clutches, clutches!
So there, there, there! ;-)

DSG is only an automatic in the sense that the car can control the shifting. It is NOT comparable to a normal hydraulic automatic transmission. Would you call the BMW, SMG an "automatic"? I don't think so. It's a standard manual transmission with automatic control. The DSG is essentially two of these in one, so that it can shift many times faster. Theoretically, you could build the car with two clutch pedals and two gear shifters and it would work just like a manual. Now that would be interesting to drive!

So... Automatics have torque converters and manuals have clutches. Automatics can simulate manual control (I.E. Tiptronic) and manuals can simulate automatics (I.E. SMG). DSG is simply a manual that is normally simulating an automatic but can be used to simulate manual control. Did that make sense??? My head hurts now!

kyfdx

But, Audi sells it as it's only automatic alternative on the A3..

I don't think they are going to consider the internal workings of the DSG as a wear and tear item.... BMW is the same way with SMG... You don't pay for clutch replacements.. If the SMG stops working, it is either under warranty, or it is rebuilt..

I think the key is: You have no control over how the clutch actuates in an SMG or DSG... the computer controls it.. So, if it wears prematurely, it is on the manufacturer, not the owner..

Otherwise, you are going to see some very unhappy owners in a few years..

regards,
kyfdx

misterjj

I think I found some wheels I'd like to get for the A3... The problem is that they're VW wheels! I may just have to get the car that goes along with them though.
Check it out here:
http://www.gti.com.au/flash/default.asp

Click on "The Gallery" for pics.

jondemon

I'm debating between the A3 and Volvo S40 T5. Test drove both today and agree the A3 is peppier and an amazing drive. S40 feels heavier but was also a fun drive. My area is offering incentives on the S40, none on the A3. Unfortunately, this rebate could make the difference between an AWD and a FWD.

Audi's reliability is of major concern. Every Audi owner I know has had their car in the shop many times. I've always made it a personal rule to not buy a new model in its first year of release as well. I haven't read great things about the S40's reliability either.

Is it worth a few extra grand to bump up from the A3/S40 to the Infiniti G35?

HELP!!!!

jrct9454

I've driven both, and my preference is for the A3 - better ride, more solid feeling. Plus, I want the DSG, and it is clearly superior to the automatic in the Volvo.

Sure, the G35 would be a great choice - so would a relatively stripped 325 - they both drive better than either of the fwd cars - but the price difference is very substantial, and I personally am not looking for another sedan. The hatch body [whether called a wagon or something else] has important advantages for me - if it doesn't matter to you, and you can afford the money.....

billherrmann

I, too considered the Volvo. Then I test drove the DSG........WOW!!!!. Last week I ordered A3 [DSG,Premium pkg., Audio pkg, winter pkg And Xm radio] The deal was made at $1100 under MSRP. Also, turbo lag in T5 was VERY noticable and annoying. Test drive both again. Good luck. Bill H.

kyfdx

As much as I rag on the price of the A3, the S40 makes it look cheap... I can't believe how you can get up to $36K for the S40 T5 AWD..

But, if you want AWD, you'll have to go with the S40... I haven't heard any lovefest comments about how reliable Volvos are either, though..

If FWD is good enough, the best competitor in this price range is the Acura TSX.. I'd take that in a heartbeat over the S40...

Two words about the G35X... Gas mileage

barrak

I'm debating between the Audi A-3 and the Volvo V50 right now. Does anyone know how roomy the rear seat is? This won't be the primary family vehicle, but I would like to be able to put my wife, 3 kids, and some luggage in it and head out for the weekend.

Any A-3 owners out there with families, especially kids in car seats? Is it a comfortable fit?

misterjj

"I've always made it a personal rule to not buy a new model in its first year of release as well."

2006 is not the first model year for the A3. Europe has had the 3-door and 5-door models for many years. 2006 is an update year though for all models. Also, the FSI engine is new but is a proven performer from their LeMans winning race car, although I don't know how similar it is to the race car engine. The DSG transmission has been used in the TT with some software glitches reported early on. That's been fixed and it looks like a huge number of these trannies are going to be used in all upcoming VWs and Audis.

I've read that BMW is scrambling to copy the DSG tranny as well as the FSI engine. I suspect that DSG and other automated manuals will replace the old torque converter automatics in the next decade or so just like fuel injection, electronic ignition, and disk brakes have mostly replaced older technology. Although the U.S. auto makers will likely hang on to their torque converters for a lot longer than the rest of the world. I wouldn't be surprised if a U.S. auto maker still made a car with a carburetor, drum brakes, and the annoying separate keys for ignition, doors, and trunk!

dhanley

"I've read that BMW is scrambling to copy the DSG tranny as well as the FSI engine."

DSG, perhaps. The 6.0L v12 has been using direct gas injection for awhile.

misterjj

"DSG, perhaps. The 6.0L v12 has been using direct gas injection for awhile."

That engine uses direct injection but I don't believe it is turbo-charged, and that is the "trick" that the FSI engine does. The FSI is the first production engine to use both direct injection AND turbo.

dhanley

You might as well say audi copied direct injection. But point taken.

andys120

Also, the FSI engine is new but is a proven performer from their LeMans winning race car, although I don't know how similar it is to the race car engine.

I would think not very similar, the 3.6 liter R8/LMP900 engine has twin Turbos, 8 cylinders and develops a maximum of 659hp :surprise: !!

north0f49

I was interested in the Volvo vs the A3 also. Found that sitting in the back seat of the S40 was not very positive...felt cramped by the roof line and the leg room was not great. A3 felt much roomier in the back. But the V50 is a different story...not sure of the actual dimensions but leg room seemed much better than the S40 and obviously the roof line is not an issue, as it is a wagon.

So the road test: V50 T5 vs A3. Gotta admit, the V50 impressed, good power, responsive handling, excellent cornering, great stopping ability. But...the A3 was equal in all respects AND it was no contest in one specific area, already mentioned by others, the turbo lag...the A3 wins that one hands down. Plus, the A3 just felt better, something about the combination of its silky operation and solidness, without feeling as large or heavy as the V50. Personal preference issue probably, as the compact tightness and power of the A3 appeal to me.

I liked the cockpit of the A3 much better than the V50, esp comparing the center consoles.

And in response to the question about room in the A3, back seat is big enough for two teenagers (5'4 & 5'8"). I would expect that the 3 smaller kids could travel comfortably but best idea would be to load one up with the car seats and make sure.

And finally, a note on gas consumption. After around 400 miles, I am getting better highway gas consumption than the rating. Sorry for metric but getting 6.6-6.8 liters per 100 km vs rating of 7.1 liters per 100 km. And that is not pure highway, includes a little stop and go at front and back of a 40-mile commute.

Cheers,
KC

jrct9454

I am stuck on what, for me, is a significant price difference. I too probably prefer the A3 by a slight margin, but I can get an '06 V50 2.4 [yes, all I need by way of hp] automatic with the mandatory "up" package on EU delivery for well less than $27k. A comparably equipped A3 would cost at least $2k more, and the one and only local dealer [who has been less than impressive, incidentally] says a 3 month wait for a more basic car [DSG and metallic paint] that would close the price gap.

I'd go ahead except that the local dealer [Sunset in Portland OR] has been unhelpful, uninterested, and the store comes across like your typical Ford place, rather than a shop that is catering to people spending upwards of $50k. By contrast, there are three Volvo dealers in the area, and the guy I've been dealing with seems smart and on the ball.

This illustrates a classic connundrum in this business - in the end, the car has to be sold and serviced by people who are caring and competent. Where we came from [2 years ago], the roles were reversed - multiple Audi dealers, all good, fewer Volvo people, mostly dodgy. Since neither one of these cars promises Japanese reliability, this is not a small issue - I expect to need some caring help sometime in the first few years of ownership.

So - prefer the A3, but leaning toward the V50 for reasons that transcend the cars themselves.....

kyfdx

I think that pretty much sums it up.. If you are happy with the base engine and automatic in the Volvo, that negates the biggest positives of the A3..

The new engine and DSG transmission are the big selling points... If those aren't important to you, there are a lot of cheaper cars that can fill the bill...

regards,
kyfdx

nowakj66

Friday edition.

kurtamaxxguy

the Audi dealer situation gives me real pause. Even in Los Angeles, there are not __that__ many Audi dealers (several of which near to me seem nothing more than tiny kiosques), and up in Medford, Oregon (where family lives), the nearest Audi dealer is nearly a hundred miles away.

Folks, if you have good dealers, please let us know! As for Portland, sorry to hear the one there is a dud.

deegeea3

thanks for the info and advice. i just got an A3 with the combo nav/cd sound system. does anyone have any info on whether i can integrate the ipod through the cd changer. i would prefer to lose the cd changer to get the ipod integration, especially if i can get the music info on the screen.
thanks much.

gerardbu

I have read in some mags that Audi A3 will be importing to the U.S. an AWD version. Does anyone know if this model will be available with 6 spd mnl and the 1.8 engine or will it be only DSG and a 6 cyl.
thanks

blueguydotcom

No 1.8 on any audis anymore.

jrct9454

Audi has said V6 only. I haven't heard anything that definitive on transmission choices.

Blue's point is that the 1.8 is dead, long live the 2.0 direct injection 4. But it, at the moment, does not figure in to their plans for an AWD A3 in our market - at least not in the near term.

birdboy

I am an 02 1.8T passat owner. For the most part the car has been good to me. I love the drive minus the turbo lag.I test drove the 06 passat and it did not excite me. I drive upstate NY on weekeneds and the winters are quite snowy. The main roads are cleaned pretty well. I use Nokian all weather tires on the passat and it handles very nicely in the snow.
I fell in love with the drive and design of the A3 last week, unfortunately not the price, but thats another discusssion. Can any one tell me how the car should handle in snow with FWD? Should it be as good or possibly better than the passat? Where can I find out perhaps online about this as well as its crash saftey ratings. I understand this model has been around in Europe for a few years.Thanks for any information.

kyfdx

If you put Nokians on it, it will probably be as good as the Passat...

But, the stock tire is an all-season 225/45-17.... The ones I've seen have Pirelli P6000... That tire in that size will not do nearly as well in the snow as your Nokians...

Put Nokians on the A3, and no problems... I'm guessing..

north0f49

I am seriously considering putting on true snow tires and steel rims as I would like to get the best grip possible and keep the alloy wheels as far away as possible from the vast quantities of salt used on the roads here in the winter (not to mention sparing myself the joy/agony of keeping all those spokes clean).

And I wonder what it will be like managing the high torque on the slippery surfaces we know and love as part of the 6-7 months of winter up here north of Montreal. I am sure that will be interesting...

kc

birdboy

I am close to buying the A3. I feel the need to know definitively if the car handles as well as the 1.8t fd passat in snow. I appreciate the responses so far that you all have given. Could someone in cyber world direct me as to where I could post my snow questions on a european website as the A3 has been around in Europe for years . Is there a car review site like edmunds for europe??Thanks again for your time and help...

johnnyrusso81

I am looking to buy an A3 but do not know if i should go with the sport package + the convience package or the premium package. I would have to wait 3 months for the sports. What I really want to know is two things. How much of a difference is the sports suspension going to make, and secondly how do the sports seats feel after a long haul. I would appriciate any advice.

north0f49

I faced the same decision, went with sport + convenience and I am very happy with my choice to date (2 weeks with the car).

But it is a matter of personal preference, depends on what you like, what you are used to, what you are aiming for in your driving experience. I was not looking for cushy comfort, I wanted feel-the-road tight handling. For me, the sport package suspension was just right.

As far as seats go, I really like the sports package seats but I have yet to sit in them for an extended length of time. Not that I expect to change my opinion but I will get a different perspective tomorrow as I will be spending about 4 hours in the car, driving down to the hilly region near the Vermont-Canada border 2 hrs south-east of Montreal and then back tomorrow night. Looking forward to the drive.

Regards,
kc

allhorizon

I am close to buying the A3. I feel the need to know definitively if the car handles as well as the 1.8t fd passat in snow.

With the same tires, the A3 will have superior winter traction to your Passat for two reasons:

- the A3 has the latest generation ESP standard
- it has a newly-designed, independent rear suspension that actively helps it stay on track

On the other hand, you could wait for the VR6 AWD version coming shortly, or hope (like myself), that the 2.0TFSI will eventually come in AWD version.

For the VW/AoA folks, I would like to add that I have played the AWD game once with the Passat AWD wagon (tiptronic and V6 a must except for very few cars available), and I can say that I and many other educated people I know are totally disgusted by this type of model line up/scheme, which in the long run only serves to drive customers away from higher-priced VW/Audi models. It is just too transparent, and people affected by it spread it like a wildfire. Not good.

As far as European boards (or those frequented by) are concerned, rules don't allow me to provide links - but google is your friend in all of vw audi life.

bigsize78

I rented a 2005 A3 2.0 TDi in Germany with the nav system located in the information center area (combined with the trip computer). Unfortunately, the instructional manual is only printed in German. Does anyone know where I can obtain (preferably download) an English version of this manual? Thanks much.

dino001

That engine uses direct injection but I don't believe it is turbo-charged, and that is the "trick" that the FSI engine does. The FSI is the first production engine to use both direct injection AND turbo.

Since when BMW cares about turbo? Except diesels, they make pride in their naturally aspirated engines.

kyfdx

Reports are.. that they have a turbo six cylinder coming next year...

dino001

I just remember reading an interview with the head of M division and he literally mocked AMG's method of adding power by superchanrging (I quote from memory: "AMG went with cheaper and simpler method of adding a compressor, but would rather do it right"). I-6 with a turbo would be a huge shift in attitude.

600kgolfgt

Actually VW's TDI (which came out in the mid-1990s) was among the first engines to use direct injection with a turbo (hence the TDI name which stands for Turbo Direct Injection).

misterjj

"Actually VW's TDI (which came out in the mid-1990s) was among the first engines to use direct injection with a turbo (hence the TDI name which stands for Turbo Direct Injection)."

Yes, that's true but they use diesel. I guess I should have said that the FSI engine is the first production engine to use turbo, direct injection, AND regular (non-diesel) gasoline.

alobar

I had the reverse problem, whereby I could've had a sport pkg off the lot and would have to wait for the premium with the specs I wanted. But I test drove both models a couple times and found the sport suspension to have a much stiffer/bumpier ride than the Premium, and handling was only marginally better. Unless you're a serious sport driver and really crank your corners fast, get the Premium. It's still plenty tight and handling is great and the ride is much nicer (I live in the city and this is mandatory). One drawback: the two-tone rims on the Sport are cooler than the monotone Premium rims, and you can't swap 'em when you order. Oh well.

wale_bate1

If I end up pulling the trigger on a 3.2 DSG next June, I'll definitely be ordering Sport, so keep in touch alobar, I'll be looking to swap rims!

Real wheels have five spokes, says I. Well, seven'll do, if I must...
;-]

kyfdx

Yeah.. I think the base rims are the best looking of the bunch...

shipo

Hey gang, I'm new to this discussion (although I see a few names that I recognize from the 3-Series and 2006 IS discussions), and I thought that I'd chime in for a moment. As a long time German car driver (with a single Japanese car and a few American cars sprinkled into the mix), I took a good hard look at the A3 last night and, WOW, I'm impressed. Given that the kind of driving that I'm doing these days is rather high mileage compared to my normal routine (I'm currently driving at the rate of over 25,000 miles per year), I'm thinking about NOT leasing another BMW.

Prior to landing my latest contract (Sarbanes-Oxley database compliance, boring but profitable), I was planning on fetching a 330i from Munich via the ED program, but now??? MINI, 1-Series, A3, Jetta TDI??? Folks, I'm at a bit of a loss.

Regarding the A3...
What I loved:
- The look (both inside and out)
- The utility (I can just fit my bike inside)
- The performance (I drove a three pedal Sport Package version)
- The open sky system (very cool that it doesn't cut into the headroom)
- The rear seat leg room (quite a bit more than my former 530i)
- The shifter, ooooh sooo slick
- The handling and the feedback through the steering wheel

What I less than loved:
- No Rear Wheel Drive
- No power seats with the Sport Package
- No power seat memory with the Premium Package
- Minor torque steer (fairly high power launch from a left turn stop light)

So, what's the real bad news? I'm not in the car market just yet. :-( If I were, I'm thinking that the A3 would be at the top of my list. Nice Job Audi!

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx

1) Wait for the 3.2 Quattro model available after the first of the year.. that should take care of the torque steer, and the FWD problem.

2) If you add the convenience package to the sport package, I think it comes with all of the premium package stuff that the sport package doesn't have.. But, I think it is an "order only" option. You still won't have memory seats, though.

3) Most snow-belt dealers only stock the sport package with all-season tires.. If you order, make sure you specify summer performance tires (because I know you'll switch out to winters).

4) What are you doing? Slumming?

regards,
kyfdx

P.S.: Filled up at $2.47/gal. for regular last night... Jetta TDI is moving up my list...

blueguydotcom

Ky,

Last time I checked, Audi's A3 cannot be purchased with memory seats.

2.47 a gallon? My god, I paid 2.79 the other night and felt happy I was saving a dime compared to all the other stations.

kyfdx

Yeah.. but, your gas station sits on expensive CA real estate...

I only drive 15K/year... and I get about 24 MPG... But, I'd save $45/$50 per month if I got 35 MPG at $2.50/gallon..

Fun with math...

I believe I agreed with you... NO memory seats on the A3..

regards,
kyfdx

shipo

Even if you order the Sport Package with the Convenience Package you still won't get the power seats of the Premium Package. Grrr. And yes, no memory seats are to be had on any configuration of A3. Double Grrrr! Given that a spouse/friend/parking valet can obliterate my ever so carefully set 12-way seat settings in a split second, I’ve come to rely on the memory seats of my last two cars to eliminate that problem. If I wind up in an A3, I'm going to have to make it off-limits once I get the seat set up. If I'm heading somewhere that requires valet parking, I'll take one of our Caravans. ;-)

As for the torque steer problem, given that the FWD A3 2.0T tips the scales at a portly 3,263 pounds, a weight by the way that is only 22 pounds lighter than the new E90 325i and only 99 pounds lighter than the New A4, the last thing that I need to do is to saddle an A3 with the heavier mill and drive train. No, if I get an A3, it will be with the blown four banger driving only the front wheels.

Summer performance tires are a must. Period, full stop, the end. I’ve already priced out a set of winter wheels and skins (~$1,360 IIRC).

Slumming? I suppose one could look at it that way. Then again, moving up from a 1998 Grand Caravan to an A3 is hardly slumming. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

kyfdx

Yeah.. I just did the build-your-own thing... I see about the power seats...

If you can keep the wife out of the car, manual seats are actually better than power seats without memory.. Easier to get it back to the exact spot, after a valet moves it... they usually just mess with front/back on a manual seat..

I still would rather have Quattro than FWD, even with the weight... The extra horsepower and stability of rear-driven wheels will overcome any issues with weight/balance..

Of course, the current model all loaded up with manual and FWD is right around $32K w/o NAV...

I estimate a DSG 3.2 V-6 Quattro to come in around $40K, again..with everything except NAV.

regards,
kyfdx

blueguydotcom

Problem with the manual seats - not as many adjustments. I couldn't get comfy in the manual seats. If I recall - it's been months - the manual seats had VW's lousy rotary dial for changing seatback angle.

sunilb

I thought I had heard that with the 3.2 model there would be no manual tranny offered and with the 2.0T model no quattro would be offered.

I was also impressed with the space in the A3... the backseat was suprisingly accomodating.

If I was shopping for the 2.0T, I'd wait to see the pricing (and release date?) for the upcoming GTI (provided one could give up 2doors).

wale_bate1

I'm still interested in the 255-pony option so's I can have that there quattro, but Shipo's point is well taken: the 3.2 is going to add another 150 lbs to an already hefty package, and all to the nosey.

Then again, the entire Audi lineup is pretty hefty, IMO. I figure if the TT 3.2 can handle as well as it does weighing even more than the A3 (I believe), then considering the A3's backpack, it ought actually to be a better balanced package (he said, thinking wishfully) than its two-seat go-kart on rails brother.

shipo

Only 150 pounds? The A4 3.2 Quattro is 362 pounds heavier than the A4 2.0T. And yes, most of that weight is in fact in the nosey. ;-)

Best Regards,
Shipo

qbrozen

well, would that be 150 lbs in the engine and the rest in the quattro system?