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You contradict yourself Socal.
I don't think Socal is contradicting himself with that statement. One hour is still four times longer than the 15 minutes you and graphic are advocating. If I'm a dealer I wouldn't hesitate to let a 15 minute stroke walk. But, when negotiations start getting into the 45 minute to one hour area, then you are getting to the area of time investment that Socal was talking about.
I'll walk with the salesperson to the "tower" or SM's office just to skip having the salesperson the time of coming back to the cubicle....and to show I'm serious (cause the SM is going to want to know that up front before pulling the trigger).
Actually I mentioned a half hour for negotiations only. Socal said an hour or so for everything including test drive, being shown things by the dealers, F&I and the like. If you add those things onto my 20-30 minutes of negotiation you are at least at an hour, if not more.
But, when negotiations start getting into the 45 minute to one hour area, then you are getting to the area of time investment that Socal was talking about.
Thats where Socal is contradicting himself. Negotiations of 45 minutes to an hour, or more, is what Socal means when he says use time to your advantage. yet he turns around and says everything should be done in an hour or so.
You cannot have a negotiation go for 45-60 minutes and have everything (test drive, negotiations, F&I) done in an hour or so.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Make the offer. It's going to take longer for them to write it down that it will to get a "yea or nay" on the deal. We all know the drill....salesperson takes it to the SM. SM does some calculations. He asks the salesperson if the buyer is truly serious about buying right now and if there's a way to "bump" the buyer. If the answer to both of those questions is "yes" then "no" respectively, you've got a deal.
Oh, I'm not disputing you can get a "skinny deal" in LESS THAN 15 minutes. But, to get the "anorexic deal" like socala was writing about, I think you would need to use the principles of time investment.
I would figure at least an hour outside of the negotiation process in buying a car.
But I still think its a poor negotiator that resorts to the time investment tactic.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well, that's good strategy to cut out the middle man(the salesperson). But, wouldn't the salespeople get a little perturbed that the SM is taking their potential commission?
Wasn't long... maybe 20-30 minutes. But, it really is not relevant to time investment... the price of the vehicle has already been determined. Took me all of 1 minute to decline the extended warranty and service plan.
As I'm sure some of the salespeople would vouch for, some buyers don't know a good deal if it kicked them in the backside.
I don't know if this is the same person we're talking about. But, we've yet to hear any specific evidence, about any such deal on any car, where hundreds (and in the case of socal, at least), thousands of dollars were saved over what most of us here can make a deal on.
I've got no issues with you, jipster. But, I get the sneaky suspicion that socal changed his/her user name after snake "pointed out the errors" the last go round. I'll assume you're both "chatting" behind the scenes, too. Whatever...doesn't matter to me.
Bottom line....there are plenty of ways to "skin the cat". We're pointing out the good ways, and obviously, the bad ways, too.
At least it's worked for me in a dozen plus new car purchases.
I'd tell them up front what you're looking for and the price you're willing to pay...TODAY. They're going to hand you off to a salesperson, anyway...but, the groundwork is laid.
Everybody knows where each other stands. Makes things much easier.
Like you, I can tell in pretty short order whether a deal is possible or not.
I've probably bought, or helped someone buy, 50+ cars. You get a "feel" after than many buying sessions, what can/can't, will/won't be done.
I agree. Unless the dealership is mobbed...we will haggle all day if the customer will let us. If I get one bump you can bet i'm going for more to make sure nothing is left on the table. A dealership with competent staff is like a casino, the longer your there the higher the likelihood your going to lose the negotiations. Once haggling goes in the wrong direction for the dealership the negotiations will end quickly.
Personally I don't mind the bump up, I plan on letting that happen. The only issue is unless you return in kind its the only one you will ever get.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Jip, are you ignoring me? I ask you a question in post 1340 but I didn’t get a response. Please allow me to ask again.
If you have a price that has to be met and you get it within 15 to 30 minutes, how would spending more time be beneficial?
I can’t imagine that you are saying after some extended negotiating time (more than 30 minutes and no, I don’t mean 31 minutes) the sales person, knowing your price, is going to say, “OK, just to show you I want your business I’m going to beat the price you want by $100, $200” (pick any number you want even $1). Since most reasonable people know that isn’t going to happen, getting your price quickly without extended negotiating time is the best way to buy.
I’m trying to keep it simple but if I’m missing something you’ll have to answer my question.
Hurry up, I’m waiting,
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Every store has a different way of handling these so called house deals. A house deal is a deal where no salesperson was initial involved like the SM took an up on his/her own or maybe sold a car to one of his/her former customers.
Some stores have it set up that the salesperson with the highest number of sales so far that month gets the house deal. Works as a good way to make people want to be number one for the month. If you are one or two levels away from the next bonus round then a house deal or two can mean thousands of extra dollars in bonus money.
Our store does it at the managers disgression although I typicaly get all of the house used car deals since I sell the most used cars and have the highest closing ratio. I also have the least number of deals that unwind so less chance of something killing the deal if I handle the particulars then if someone else does.
No sir, the Jipster doesn't roll like that.
But, if this is really jmonroe and not snake or socala, then I will be overjoyed to answer your question.
If my price is met within 15-30 minutes then I probably started out to high. I like to start out below my "target" price(defined as what you call a "skinny" deal). That way there is the possibility of getting that "anorexic" deal. I'll let the salesperson bump me up once or twice, but it will still be below my "target" price. If my "target" price is 20k out the door, then I may start out with maybe 19.4k
An offer which is still reasonable and one that will not offend. So, I may let them bump me up to 19.5k or 19.6k... tell them I'm going home to think it over. If the dealership bites I've saved $400 over the "Deal or No Deal" method. That can buy a lot of Christmas gifts for you, snake, pch101, his brother... and maybe tidester.
Of course it’s jmonroe, who the hey do you think it is? Don’t you see my handle up top in the heading? That’s why Edmunds does it like that, so people can’t hide who they are. I’m surprised at you.
If my price is met within 15-30 minutes then I probably started out to high.
I’ve already said that’s not the case. I do my research, Edmunds TMV being one source plus others. I always settle on a price that is hundreds of dollars less that TMV since we all know that TMV is average and since I’d like to do better than average this is the way I do it. It seems you use a similar approach.
I like to start out below my "target" price(defined as what you call a "skinny" deal). That way there is the possibility of getting that "anorexic" deal.
The last two times I bought (twice within the last 18 months) the dealer (2005 purchase) didn’t want to accept my price initially. However, when he saw me getting ready to leave he quickly said, “Ok but only if you buy tonight” to which I responded, “write it up now”.
The 2006 purchase I did by phone following an e-mail price that wasn’t quite good enough so I called to speed up the process. He said he could beat his e-mail price but he could not meet my price until he heard me thank him for his time, then he said he had to go to a higher authority and he’d get back to me within 20 minutes. He called back (on time) and said, “OK, but only if you buy today” (seems they really like that line) I said, “when can you have it ready, I can’t be there until 2 PM” (11AM at time of conversation). He said, “then I’ll see you then”.
Now what can be easier than this for 2 car purchases when you get your price?
So, I may let them bump me up to 19.5k or 19.6k... tell them I'm going home to think it over
Nope, bumping is not allowed. My way or the highway.
If the dealership bites I've saved $400 over the "Deal or No Deal" method. That can buy a lot of Christmas gifts for you, snake, pch101, his brother... and maybe tidester.
You’re going to split $400 between five people? That’s pretty cheap of you. I like gifts that cost more than that. Although I don’t usually get them, so I take back what I said about being cheap. You’re right in line with the way Mrs. jmonroe treats me and I’m never going to call her cheap again either.
As far as cutting ‘tiedster’ in; Security has an awesome Christmas budget so he doesn’t need it, plus it’s probably against Edmunds bylaws.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
No deal!
Besides, Kirstie was first in Smart Shopper and she would be VERY upset.
tidester, host
All things being equal, yes, it would be better for the dealer to sell the two cars at $1,000 than two for $600. It would be even better if he could sell them for $1 million, or $10 billion, right?
But in your original scenario, these weren't the choices, so changing the analogy isn't a particularly honest way to discuss this.
The point is that all things aren't equal, because in this scenario, the customer is sitting there with checkbook in hand, which makes that buyer a sure thing (unless the dealer blows it and runs a live prospect out the door.) Add to this that the poor salesguy has just spent all of this time kicking tires with this buyer, and would really prefer that the customer bought something, which earns him a commission and credit for a unit sold, rather than earn nothing.
So unless the dealership figures that it can do a whole lot better in relatively short order, it is likely to pull the trigger on that sale. That's why the Prius is out of reach in this scenario, but the Corolla, Camry, etc. are not. Dial into this the need to hit numbers, the desire to move more product in order to obtain allocations of the hot cars of the day, etc., and the incentives to sell cheaply become even greater.
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I didn't include the F&I process because for me, most of that consists of the F&I guy trying to sell me stuff that I'm not probably going to buy and reading the contract in detail. (Yes, I actually read the things.)
And if I was trading a car in, then that might add some time as well. But my tendency is to sell privately or pawn off the old car to someone who I know.
The good thing about negotiating the purchase effectively is that it makes the F&I period relatively brief because at that point, they've thrown in the towel with me as it becomes clear that there's nothing left for them to get. At that point, they're probably more anxious to hurry that I am, because they have nothing left to gain from the process, whereas I am not going to rush because I am intent on reading all of the paperwork.
That's exactly the right way to play it. Start out below your maximum price, and then try to stay beneath while giving up a bump or two. It gives the sales manager some sense that they have managed to get something out of you, which provides them a sense of accomplishment.
That should be combined with a bracketing technique, which involves making the second bump smaller than the first. That sends a signal that you are hitting a price ceiling and should be bringing the haggle to a close. If your first bump is too big, then it can actually backfire on you because it indicates that you weren't all that serious about paying a low price, and the seller will endeavor to gain a second substantial bump.
Plain and simple. I've helped clients save tons of money over the last ten years. I negotiate car deals on behalf of my clients. So now you know who I am.
Buyers: Simply put dealers are in business to make money just like any other business. And if you don't do your research you could pay a lot more money that could of been spent elsewhere on your next car purchase. Like I said they are in business to make money not to help you save it.
My recommendations before making a purchase:
A. Do your research. I use Edmunds TMV, Fightingchance.com and Consumer Reports! Kelly and NADA is dealer driven. If you want current local market sales data stick with what I told you. Make sure your armed with all rebates and incentives that currently applies for the vehicle you wish to purchase. Arm yourself with the invoice price for the vehicle and all options that apply.
B. Get pre-approved for a loan before talking with a dealer from a credit union. Know your credit score! Pentagon Federal Credit Union is by far one of the best in the nation. I've referred a ton of happy people to them. Once you negotiate a price on your new car with a dealer then ask them to compare what you have to what they can get you. If there rates are better take it. Make sure you get the rate in writing the day of the sale.
C. Trade - Know the difference from local market value and dealer wholesale market value. Big difference. Trade in values posted by Edmunds, NADA, Kelly and others are not numbers dealers will offer you when attempting to sell your trade to them. They buy at dealer wholesale auction daily auction rates better known as http://www.manheim.com
it’s almost always better to sell out right to the public.
Why would they buy it from you if they can get it cheaper at the auction? Think about it. I tell all my clients to take their trade to at least three dealers before they make a purchase. Do not tell a dealer you’re looking to buy. Rather tell them you’re only looking to sell out right. This method is proven to get you a number you need in order to be successful when it comes time to negotiate the new car deal.
D. If you’re interested in extras such as GAP or Extended Warranties do your research online first. Get several price quotes and then compare them to your dealers quote. Almost always you'll find much better deals online. Make sure your comparing apples to apples when comparing Extended Warranties between the net and a dealer. GAP shouldn't cost no more than $250. I've known dealers to charge up to $600. Pentagon Federal sells it at $175 if I recall right.
Stay away from:
Pinstripes
Window Etching
Scotch guard
Undercoats
Dealer Insurance
My recommendations for negotiations once you found a car your 100% sure you want to buy:
A. Never negotiate with a dealer in person.
Always use the internet or fax machine to get multiple dealer quotes. Provide email address only. No phone numbers. And if a dealer says he'll only do business in person tell them thank you and let them know if they can't deal with you over email you’re no longer interested. Move on! Ensure they understand you could care less about their service department. You’re only worried about price and always ask if they have any in house incentives currently in affect. Some dealers will go into a spill hoping you realize you should pay more money for your car with them then the guy down the street because of their stellar service department or maybe because of something else ect ect... Remember once you buy your warranty is good at any dealership and if you want to find out who has the better service department after the fact then ask local people in forums or ask the dealership if they can refer some repeat customers to you or ask to see the dealers "Customer Satisfaction Index Score".
B. Never go into a dealership undecided about a make and model you want to buy. Know what you want before contacting any dealer! You can do all the research you want in the world right here on Edmunds.com!
C. Always negotiate your new car purchase and trade separately. Be honest and upfront. Let them know you have a trade but you'll only negotiate once you’re done on the new car. If you know numbers and how dealers work numbers you don't need to hide the trade from them. Once this is done then negotiate the reminder items in the finance department. Be very careful and pay close attention to the paper work. I always take three different calculators with me. I litterly had a finance guy once try to argue with me when all three of my calculators said the same thing but his figure was off by $260. I made him redo the paperwork! Remember everything is negotiable and you should always have a folder of items with you to present to them as proof that you can buy Extended Warranties, GAP Insurance and whatever else much less than what he's trying to present to you. Knowledge is power! Remember that.
D. Always come prepared with an alternate source of financing from a credit union! Pentagon Federal Credit Union is by far one of the best in the country. Know your credit score and have proof of it! If a dealer can beat your current rate from a credit union get it in writing and use it.
E. Again the Finance department...People you can loose your shirt if you’re asleep at the wheel while in the finance department. Read everything! These people are trained salesmen just like the guy you negotiated the car with. And take all the time you need. If something doesn't look right call them out on it. Have them explain it in great detail. If they start fumbling their thumbs at you take your business else where.
Formulas - Knowing the numbers:
For some reason I have client after client always asking me what's the best price. How do you know what the rock bottom price is? My answer...
You don't until you get the dealers to compete with each other. There is no magic number. Dealer A might sell for $25000. Dealer B might sell the same exact unit with the same options for $25,900. You must request multiple quotes. Now these quotes will still be a tad high. Some dealers might come in at rock bottom pricing right away. When I start my initial bid request I let the dealers know I will only show the lowest bid on round 1 only 1 time. Round two you better come in at your rock bottom bid because this gives them an idea where there competition is at. Remember never share who gave the bids with other dealers. This makes them furious and won't do business with you again. Round 2 needs to be rock bottom. If you have every dealer come back at you on round 2 you need to go for round 3. Point is once dealers stop bidding you know rock bottom has been hit. No dealer likes to loose a sale and most will do anything to get the sale. So if they stop bidding you know t
Now to really simplify things for you use the formulas below.
Remember supply and demand drives market prices. Before you start anything take a drive around and see how many units are out on the lots of a particular car you have in mind buying. If there is a ton supply is high demand is low which enables you to negotiate very well. If there is few supply is low demand could be high and you might be lucking to get somewhere between invoice and MSRP.
On to the formulas now...
For new:
Domestic vehicles
Target price
Invoice to include options
minus
all rebates and incentives
Reality is you may pay a few hundred over invoice minus all rebates and incentives.
Foreign makes
Target price
Invoice to include options
minus
all rebates and incentives
Reality is you need to look at supply and demand and for foreign makes you’ll probably pay closer to sticker on some. If Honda just released a new name plate you’re looking closer to MSRP then you would be invoice. This could be the same way for domestics as well. Pay close attention to Edmunds TMV. This number is fairly close to what dealers are actually fetching from consumers.
Now for used...
Simple really. Your target is...
Trade in blue book price “Edmunds” or less. Remember Edmunds numbers are closer to market values then the others are.
If you pay blue book Private Party values your breaking even from being in the hole or upside down.
If you pay blue book dealer values you’re really in the hole and your going to pay a steep price when you try to sell private party and a real steep price if you try to trade in your car to a dealer.
Well I hope I've shed some light for you. It's really not rocket science. Just follow what I've said above. Your next car purchase will go off without a hitch!
Trust me.
Why? - Automobile negotiation is like a game of poker. I like to see the mannerisms and facial expressions of my opponent. I have found, more often than not, the majority of salesmen don't have good poker faces (maybe this is due to the high rate of turnover at my local dealerships, so they don't have enough time to perfect this art?).
"ask to see the dealers "Customer Satisfaction Index Score"."
Why? - The CSI score is a joke. To me, an higher CSI score tells me that the dealer is pretty good at "coaching"
customers into giving them good marks - whether it be by playing the pity card and telling the customer the salesman won't get his bonus if he gets a score less than perfect, or by offering free car washes or oil changes in exchange for good scores (I have been on the receiving end of all of these lines before).
Answer: Frankly your wasting your time with just "ONE" dealer. I could care less about a poker face. I want the bottom price fast. I can negotiate with 10 dealers in the same time your trying to figure out the poker face on one.
Why? - The CSI score is a joke. To me, an higher CSI score tells me that the dealer is pretty good at "coaching"
customers into giving them good marks - whether it be by playing the pity card and telling the customer the salesman won't get his bonus if he gets a score less than perfect, or by offering free car washes or oil changes in exchange for good scores (I have been on the receiving end of all of these lines before).
Answer: I see your point. The CSI score is just one method for trying to get a good review about a dealer. I know it can be inflated. That's why personally I would ask around on forums and such to see who has bought from that particular dealer and get their opinion about other services before I believe anything else.
I never said anything about only negotiating with "ONE" dealer. Even if I visit 3 dealerships, I never spend more than 20 minutes at the dealership. By then, you should know whether you are going to be able to work a deal or not.
Maybe it just depends on the particular area you live in, but "blast faxes" and emails with no phone number provided aren't taken very seriously in my area.
Or is your feel based on what you save the customer over their own first price obtained?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Very good points/information that I have not read before. Thanks.
You writing this stuff down jmonroe & snake?
Flat Fee - I can usually save a customer in one area of the sale more than what my fee is. Its not hard to please my clients. Dealers makes it easy most of the time.
1racefan
Not sure where your from but most of the country unless in a unpopulated area where dealers have the market cornered they have special teams designed to handle internet shoppers. Works very well and I've helped people buy from coast to coast.
Provide email address only. No phone numbers.
You need to give that dealers multiple ways of contacting you which includes phone numbers. If you make it too hard for the dealers they will think that you aren't serious and your fax/email goes in the trash. Since you mention the fighting chance packet, you know that it states that you need to give the dealers multiple ways to contact you. I also like to speak with the sales managers on the phone as I can get a good read on whether they are someone I want to do business with.
When I start my initial bid request I let the dealers know I will only show the lowest bid on round 1 only 1 time. Round two you better come in at your rock bottom bid because this gives them an idea where there competition is at. Remember never share who gave the bids with other dealers.
You need to make it clear in your initial fax that you will not conduct endless back and forth negotiations and the first offer by the dealer is to be their best. If the dealer can't give their best offer up front and tries to play games then they have no shot at getting my business.
Some have confidence in "the number", offer it up front. It's either a "yay" or "nay" deal. Nothing wrong with that, either. Matter of fact, IMHO that's the most efficient way to do it.
Is one better than the other? Depends on which way you prefer to deal.
All the rest? Buying at the time of day, month, year may or may not have an impact. The "sure thing" about the time you buy is the fact that end of model year seems to net the best deal (but, in general, also the least selection). The down side there, you'll be suffering first year's depreciation in pretty short order.
Like anything else, there's going to be some exceptions to the rule. That base model BSE machine in yellow you've got your eyes set on may bring lower than market value, but....well....it's a yellow car.
Want the very best deal? Shop on 12/31 for a "new" previous year's model, that has since been redesigned or discontinued, still hanging around the lot (see the yellow BSE base model mentioned above).
One thing I know for certain, that's been confirmed by the professionals here, the longer you sit in the negotiation chair, the more you're going to be bumped (i.e. the more you'll pay).
Personally? I want what I want, with the options I want, the color I want. When I'm ready to buy, I shop. I'm going to let the dealership personnel do their job. I need them to find the model, color, options I want (no need to get all cloak and dagger in not letting them know what I want....that just needlessly complicates things). When it comes down to price, if I haven't pre-arranged something with a dealer principal, I've got confidence that my number may be skinny, anorexic, "skeletonish" (not much for playing any semantics games, here), but doable. Let's make it happen.....or not. No hard feelings if my offer is rejected. If it's rejected often enough, by enough dealerships, somehow my research is wrong. I'm not usually wrong, though.
Some people like e-mail negotiations. Nothing wrong with that either. It seems to work for a lot of people. I like to be in the dealership when the deal is struck, though. I want to make certain there are no surprises when the deal is struck. Best way to do that is to be present when the deal is done.
But it was you that changed the analogy not me. So don't tell me I am being dishonest when it was you that changed the situation.
The point is that all things aren't equal, because in this scenario, the customer is sitting there with checkbook in hand, which makes that buyer a sure thing
Its not a sure thing if the price is to low.
So unless the dealership figures that it can do a whole lot better in relatively short order,
And it all comes down to knowing the market.
Socal I am done with this. You change the analogy then call me dishonest because you did so. :confuse:
Go ahead and believe what you wish I am out of this.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Well, I think you have to visit dealerships to see, feel and test drive everything you might be interested (from your online research).
You can, however, pass on negotiating while you are there, but it makes sense to get some numbers, since dealers tend to be more aggressive with a live body sitting in front of them.
If you have really done all the research and know your prices, and they have exactly what you want, just Bobst them with a to the bone but not completely outrageous offer, and see what happens. You have nothing to lose.
Another issue is time frame. Your method (assuming an individual does it, I would personally never hire someone to shop for me) is going to drag out over many days, assuming there are a lot of dealers in the area of your chosen make. Especially when you account for the ones that don't respond, take too long, don't follow all your requirements, etc.
I can visit all the convenient dealers that I would choose to buy from in a few hours. Plus have way more fun!
Still, if your fee is reasonable, and you have clients that are either super busy making big $$ or just terrified of the big bad car dealers, I can see why they would hire a negotiator to do the dirty work. I still, however, don't understand how someone could buy a car without seeing and driving it first.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
But be prepared to make compromises if need be.
For some reason I have client after client always asking me what's the best price. How do you know what the rock bottom price is? My answer...
You don't until you get the dealers to compete with each other.
If you done your research properly you should have a pretty good ideal what that best price is. A good negotiator should be able to get that without playing one dealer against the other. Thats a tactic that those who haven't done their research on prices.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Not always true, A large inventory could be the result of a large demand. Tell me if you were a dealer and the new sludgemobile was selling well wouldn't you try to get as many as you could?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
No, why would I write down advice from someone who has proven to me that they do not know what they are talking about?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I seriously doubt you can save an educated buyer much, if any, money. All brokers or buying services do is add onto the price.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Very true you just can't go by numbers pictures and reviews. You have to actually see, feel and try out the car. That takes a trip to the dealer.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Agree
The Bobst method still works the best.
Disagree, the Bobst method works the best for some, for others other ways work better.
The trick is to find what is best for you while avoiding the pitfalls.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I don’t know how you lasted this long. I was out many posts ago.
It reminds me of an old story that was told to me many years ago. This is a good time to tell it. For those of you, who recognize it, please use the scroll wheel:
There was a man who was doing some shopping and happened to pass two men having a discussion on a downtown street corner as he was passing by to do his shopping. Since he had to stop and wait for the light to turn green, he couldn’t help but hear their conversation, so he started to listen. After a few minutes he thought to himself that one guy is clearly right in what he is saying and the other guy appears to be an idiot. Having heard enough he continues on with his shopping for about a half an hour. On his way back to his car he comes across the same two guys that he saw earlier, only this time they’re both red faced and screaming at each other. So, again he stops to listen to the conversation but this time he couldn’t tell who the original idiot was because now they both sounded like idiots.
Moral of the story; if you can’t make your point within the first few minutes of a discussion you’re not going to, because after that it’s going to be a shouting match and you will both lose credibility.
Now back to some worthwhile Buying Tips.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Oh, I have dealt with some of these "special teams designed to handle internet shoppers", and they are not as cut and dry as maybe what you have experienced. I got responses that read something like "Come on in, and we will be able to make a deal" (without actually quoting me a price).
Or, I got a price quotes that were way higher than what my research had indicated I could actually buy the car for. And after a couple of rounds of trying to counter, they would finally revert to the old, "Come on in, and we'll make a deal" - without ever getting into the price range that I had found when doing my research....Not to mention that it could take an hour just to get a response from each of my emails (initial offer and counter offers). I found that several dealers acted this way, and quickly discovered that I wasn't going to get the "very best" deal via this mode of communication.
Even if you read the posts of "isellhondas" and some of the others on these boards, it is very rare to find a dealer that will actually quote you their "best price" via email for fear of the customer taking it and shopping it. They are more likely to give you their "best price" when you are face to face, because they already have you in their building, which is half the battle (or more than half) from the perspective of the sales department.
On my 3 Series, there's only two local dealers. I actually went to both of them for a "look-see" and let them "bid" against each other....mostly by phone, though. After visiting both, the phone calls began. It went something like this....
BMW dealer #1-Mr GG, are you ready to buy the 3?
GG-yes, but I need a better offer from you.
#1-let me see what I can do. (calls back 10 minutes later)....Mr GG, we can do $xx,xxx on the car your interested in.
GG-thanks, I'll let you know.
#2-Mr GG, are you ready to buy the 3?
GG- yes, I've got an offer from #1 of $xx,xxx.
#2-let me see if I can do better.
This played out, back and forth over two days, until both dealers said they could do no better. Went with the best offer (actually, #1 said if I could buy the car at #2's price, I should buy it from #2). Once I got to #2's showroom, I pushed for another $250 off plus some "throw-ins" (mats and some other minor stuff), and got it. However, by this time, I was dealing with the GM, since the Salesperson was off that day and the SM was busy with other customers.
snake...I'm with you. This is going from just silly to plain ridiculous. I'll just let this play out until it's predictable and inevitable end. Some of this guy's "spiel" reminds me of a late night infomercial...."save hundreds-even thousands of dollars by using my car buying methods". Sounds like a car buyer's "screamer ad" (instead of a dealership).
bigveedub....I saw a real rise in "auto brokers" before the internet "bubble" burst. Then, they all kind of went away. To me, that would be a tough way to make a living, though. How do you make money?
Some have made a go of it on the internet, but those are mostly through selling "web click-through" on their WEB site and WEB advertising (as carbuyingtips.com does). Jeff (the owner of the site) doesn't make a commission on the sale itself.