Moral of the story; if you can’t make your point within the first few minutes of a discussion you’re not going to, because after that it’s going to be a shouting match and you will both lose credibility.
Perfectly said. Now that it's blindingly obvious that several members are simply not going to agree with others' buying methods, can we stop beating it into the ground?
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Mike....If the "bobst" method works for you, then that's the best way to do it.....for you.
Graphic and Snake, you guys are right, I should have said "it works best for me" in my original post. Some of us just don't like the back and forth "stuff". Properly done, with professional courtesy, the Bobst method works best for me.
Specialize, I suppose, I have not got that far yet.Possibly a service for seniors, women, busy professionals. Leasing companies do really well out here considering this is not a leasing market. So if I provided a service that saved time money and hassle for the customer that would be great. People who use these services are paying for convienience not really the best Price.
I think this curious is peddling a service. I have a problem with people in the car business who sell a few cars and write these cheesy books on how to buy a car, and the services that make consumers think that the dealer is going to take your first born. These people are worse than the dealers by far. And let me tell you dealers have to dodge these vendors who say they can double our sales with a 100000 piece mailer, or tent sales, or Crappy CRM tools. And motivational speakers who will make us increase sales that charge 225 a seat that includes not even a soda, and here the same rhetoric we here in saturday meetings.
bigveedub....you'll get no arguments from me about those who "so successfully" did anything, but decided to quit "the biz" to write a book about it. If things were going so well in their chosen profession, why quit? Write a book? No, thanks!
I feel the same way about "trainers". Never could understand how some "shotgun" mailer would yield more leads than could be handled, either. No target audience? No good!
Interesting thoughts about focusing on seniors and those looking for the "convenience factor" in buying a car. Obviously, you'd probably focus on the "upper end", income wise, of the target market.
You've clearly got your dealership contacts. Probably expand those to include the management in high line dealerships (where your clients would like to shop). Networking for clients....hmmmm....maybe some upper crust "social clubs".
Interesting concept!
Kind of as a side step, there's a show on INHD called Wall Street. It folloows the careers of people who are trying to make money, and find clients for their self-funded hedge funds. Theese people play on the periphery of the mainstream investor. They travel in circles well above their social status to recruit. I would think that would relate to your concept (not saying that you aren't among the "elite" of the social ladder )
I've been shopping for a new car, and I've been hearing from a lot of dealers about "below invoice pricing." I know that the invoice is a little less than msrp. What kind of profit do they make if they sell you a car $500 below invoice? Is there still "wiggle" room?
-After a dealer sells a car, it collects a "holdback" from the manufacturer, which is equivalent to about 2-3% of either invoice or MSRP. You can get a list of most of them from Edmunds.
-The manufacturers may pay additional incentives (similar to rebates) to the dealers for selling cars with excessive inventories (import manufacturers try to keep their inventory levels below about 45-60 days, while domestics will often have 60-90 days' worth). In addition, there are often incentives paid to move out inventory at the end of the model year to make room for the new cars, particularly when the model is changing over. You can find out about some of these from Edmunds and from Automotive News magazine, but not all of these are published. (Sometimes, the auto ads in the classifieds section of your newspaper can give you a hint about some of these -- it's worth looking at them to see if you can figure it out, but don't count on it.)
-There may be other motivations to move cars cheaply that aren't published, such as dealer allocations. For a dealer to get its hands on a hot car that can be sold at MSRP, the dealer may be pushed by the manufacturer to sell some of the slower movers if it wishes to earn the right to buy one of the hot ones. Dealers might be motivated to dump one of the less desirable cars at a deeper discount if it helps it to get its hands on the hot car that will more than make up for that discount.
-There are also dishonest tricks that the dealer may play, such as selling you that $500-below-invoice car with a several-hundred dollar "doc fee", unnecessary rustproofing, a costly "pre delivery inspection" or some other bogus charges that are really just padding on the bill. So make sure that "$500 below invoice" really means just that.
-The dealer may try to use the lure of the low purchase price in order to make the money back on the trade-in and/or the F&I department. Be sure that you don't get taken to the cleaners in these other two departments while celebrating your great $500-below-invoice deal.
If there is a car that the dealer is actively marketing at $500 below invoice, assuming no tricks, then there is probably a large incentive being paid to the dealer post-sale. It's not enough to know the invoice, you also need to know as much about the incentives as possible.
What kind of profit do they make if they sell you a car $500 below invoice?
That depends on the car and what you consider profit.
Is there still "wiggle" room?
That depends on what the car is and what the market for that car in your area. There might be some wiggle room there might not.
Are they advertising the car for $500 under invoice? If so then a aware that many of those ads are just bait, the car you can get at that price is either gone or something you don't want. If the ad is legitiment then they might be some wiggle room but not much.
Also you need to get away from the "dealer cost plus reasonable profit" frame of mind. You may think that $18K would cover the cost and give the dealer a good profit and you might be right. However if that car is selling like hotcakes for $19K you are going to pay $19K.
What car are you looking to buy? That will answer a lot of questions.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
KNowing the year/make/model of the car, as well as your geographic area, will tell us if there are rebates or incentives on the vehicle which would allow the dealer to sell below invoice. Getting those specifics is the only way to tell if it's a good deal or not.
Hello all, First time poster here, looking for used-car buying some advice. I will first try and spell out my situation in as much detail as I can then try and learn something from the pros here:
Financial Situation: After being unemployed for about a year, I got a new job about 6 months ago, making 45k+. My credit score is 670. Little in the way of open credit. I rent. I have two credit cards, with about $300 used in about $3000 credit available, combined. No other debt. Current car is almost 10 yrs old, and has been paid long ago. I've saved enough to put 5k down on a car purchase.
Now, for my car buying situation: I am interested in a slightly used 2006 Hyundai Sonata. I live in a large city with lots of dealers. I believe I can get (or at least I hope I can get) a 10k-25k mile used Hyundai Sonata GLS for $13500. Most dealers have them listed from 13,900 to 15,000 that I see (I've kept with prices for about 6 weeks now), so I believe that 13,500 +TTL is feasible. I have *never* bought a car before from a dealer. All my previous purchases have been from friends, relatives, or THROUGH friends and relatives, so I am pretty much new to dealing with a dealer. I hope you take that into consideration if you notice that some of my questions sound naive or obvious. That being said, I've read up a *lot* on Edmunds.com about dealing with dealers.
I will be dealing on final price +TTL only (no monthly payment, 4-square games for me), so I'm pretty secure on that aspect I believe. My current car is NOT on its last legs, so I also don't feel pressure to buy something NOW, though I believe in one week (end of Nov.) would be good buying time.
Now, for my car buying questions: 1. When people put money down, how is that actually done? I really doubt that they'd just take a check. I don't have enough on my Cards to use them to put the amount that I want, so how would I do it? I'd hate to look like a fool asking the sales guy a question like that, so I am asking you guys.
2. Insurance. How does it work for a new car? I currently only carry liability, and pretty much that's what I've had for the last 7 years, but since I'll be getting this car with someone else as the lienholder, I'm certain they'll want full coverage before they'll let me drive off. Will that be the case? How does that work? Is it something that's arranged with the insurance company beforehand?
3. Financing. I got financing from Wells Fargo, but I'm not quite pleased with the rate. I got 9.29% for a used car from a dealer. Considering I'm planning on putting $5,000 down (which I was never asked about during my online application), I believe I can get a better rate, but I don't know how having that loan approved would affect any other offers I might get. Would it benefit me to go through e-loan or another multiple-offer site? Perhaps a credit union, even if I am not a customer? I am also wondering if I can get a better deal from the dealer by using the pre-approval as leverage? Given my financial situation, how likely do you think that is?
Ok, I think that is it for now. If I have missed something for which I should be on the lookout, please let me know. Also, if you need a bit more info feel free to ask. Thank you for reading this far, and thank you in advance to all respondents.
1. When people put money down, how is that actually done?
Dealers love pennies, so bring plenty of them. Nothing brings joy to a dealers heart like counting a half million pennies.
Seriously a check should be fine. If they have any concerns you could always get it certified. But I have had no issues writing large checks for down payments. Dealers will only take so much on a credit card because they get charged a percentage of what the take in on a credit card. So they could lose hundreds taking a $5k downpayment.
2. Insurance. How does it work for a new car?
Most insurance companies will carry over your current insurance to a new car for a reasonable amount of time. However since you only have liability talk with your agent before buying.
3. Financing. I got financing from Wells Fargo, but I'm not quite pleased with the rate.
then shop around, do you have a credit union? if so check with them. Check with your bank. Since I suggested talking to your insurance agent about the insurance ask him if they have anything for you. Many insurance companies do make car loans. Shop around and see what you can get. Then see if the dealership can beat what you have.
If I have missed something for which I should be on the lookout, please let me know.
Yes, test drive the you now what out of that car. If you can bring along someone who can follow you as you test drive the car (to make sure its in alignment). Test the ride and alignment (does it pull to either side) at various speeds. Park it in a parking lot away from the dealership and take a long hard look at it. Look under the hood, in the truck and in the door jams for any sign that there was repaired damage. Drive it in tight circles forward and backwards in the parking lot.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
gambit....all good questions. Thanks for being thourough.
1. Dealership should take your check. In all reality, they will have some sort of "electronic gizmo" that will deduct the amount from your checking account immediately.
2. Since it sounds like you're financing, the financial institution you get your car loan with will require you to have comprehensive, collision, liability coverage. Get a quote from your agent on what that will cost. Also, have your agent's/insurance company's phone number at the ready so the dealership can confirm your coverage.
3. 9.39% sounds high (actually, it sounds outrageous). Who got that rate for you? If it's the dealership, apply at e-loan, or one of the other on-line car loan places to see where they put your rate. As you say, a credit union would work, too. Easy enough to become a customer of a credit union....just join up. You'll probably have to make a minimal deposit with them, though ($50-%100). Not knowing your credit score, I would hope someone would be able to do much better if you don't have any "dings" on your credit report. Once you get the lower rates from e-loan and/or a credit union, take that rate to the dealer and ask them to beat it.
670 isn't a bad credit score. It's not one of the best, either. But, it should be good enough to beat the 9.29%.
You should be able to do better than that, I would shoot for well under invoice. Have you tried to see if there are any left over 2006's? You might be able to do much better with those.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
n.....that's not $500 below invoice. Hyundais aren't known for selling at much above invoice. I'd offer invoice ($20K) and see what the dealer says. Shoot for a price of $20,250 at most.
Haven't looked to see if there are any incentives. If there are, deduct those from your offer, too.
Keep in mind that prime is over 8 percent now so 9.39% is not outrageous with a credit score in the 670 range. A credit union can probably do better or perhaps even a dealership that does a lot of business with a local bank. We run so much paper through our floorplan bank that they can get us down under 6 percent sometimes with a high down payment on new cars.
I'd hate to look like a fool asking the sales guy a question like that, so I am asking you guys.
I have a general comment. If this is your first time buying a car do not be afraid to ask questions if you do not understand something, and keep asking until you do understand. If you don't understand something and then it comes back to bite you, then you will feel like a fool.
Many people are shocked that rates are as high as they are.
All of those super low interest rates offered by everyone a few years ago and then the tendancy of the domestics to continue offering 0% deals has made people expect super low rates.
Now, for my car buying questions: 1. When people put money down, how is that actually done? I really doubt that they'd just take a check. I don't have enough on my Cards to use them to put the amount that I want, so how would I do it? I'd hate to look like a fool asking the sales guy a question like that, so I am asking you guys.
you most certaintly can just write out a check. i would think that is what happens most of the time. you could always get a certified check from you bank/credit union if that makes you feel more comfortable. most dealerships i've been to do not take credit cards. the reason i get most often is that is it is very easy to dispute charges and then all sorts of headaches come after that process starts.
2. Insurance. How does it work for a new car? I currently only carry liability, and pretty much that's what I've had for the last 7 years, but since I'll be getting this car with someone else as the lienholder, I'm certain they'll want full coverage before they'll let me drive off. Will that be the case? How does that work? Is it something that's arranged with the insurance company beforehand?
you will need full coverage on any car you owe money on in most, if not all, states. you will need to bring your current insurance info w/ you to the dealership when you buy. it would be good(but not required) to call the insurance guy before hand to let them now, if for no other reason than to find out exactly what it will cost you. i always seem to forget. you usually have around 2 weeks from the date of purchase to call.
3. Financing. I got financing from Wells Fargo, but I'm not quite pleased with the rate. I got 9.29% for a used car from a dealer. Considering I'm planning on putting $5,000 down (which I was never asked about during my online application), I believe I can get a better rate, but I don't know how having that loan approved would affect any other offers I might get. Would it benefit me to go through e-loan or another multiple-offer site? Perhaps a credit union, even if I am not a customer? I am also wondering if I can get a better deal from the dealer by using the pre-approval as leverage? Given my financial situation, how likely do you think that is?
as far as financing goes, capitolone and e-loan usually have the lowest rates on-line. but check w/ you're own bank/credit union as well. if you are a memeber at costco, they also get a member only rate at capitolone which is usually .25% lower than the post rates.
Ok, I think that is it for now. If I have missed something for which I should be on the lookout, please let me know. Also, if you need a bit more info feel free to ask. Thank you for reading this far, and thank you in advance to all respondents.
as you might have read during your research, just be careful once you get in the finance office with all the tricks that are pulled in there. know what you want to pay and don't be afraid to say no. since this a used car, a carfax report might not be a bad idea. go over the car tooth and nail. hope this helps.
Hello, I'm the original poster of this question. First of all, I'd like to thank everyone that took the time to read my posting, and doubly so to those the commented on it. I learned a lot in just these few hours.
For starters, it's ok to pay by check. Got it. Thanks.
About the insurance thing, thanks to everyone who chimed in. I guess this is a question better asked of my insurance agent, huh? On the "not looking like a fool" part, I understand the need to ask until I understand. My concern was asking from someone whose interests (making a decent profit) were at odds with mine (getting a good price). I would rather ask from a forum like this one, where the respondents have no financial stake on the answer.
Another question that I guess I should have asked the first time... Does a bigger down payment play a part on the interest rate that I can expect. i.e., if I up the down payment to, say, $7,000 as opposed to $5,000 (which I probably could), would it make a difference on the financing I could get? Thank you again for your help so far.
I'll come at your questions from a different angle:
-You might consider getting a new car, rather than a used one. At the moment, there is a $1500 factory-to-customer offer on Sonatas, and you can guess that there are probably additional unpublished factory-to-dealer incentives on the 2006 models that could allow for some steeper discounting.
Plus, you may get a better interest rate on a new car loan than you would on a used car loan. If so, the lower interest rate could partially offset the higher price of a new car. Ask for a quote on both new and used car loans from a credit union and other lenders, and see what you get.
-I'd frankly be inclined to pay less than you are willing to pay for the used version of this particular car. Sonatas are sold heavily to fleets -- fully half of the new Sonatas registered during the first half of the 2006 model year were sold to fleets --- so used 1-2 year old models of these cars get dumped onto the market cheaply and in large quantities, which should make them available to dealers at a low price. Both Kelley Blue Book and Edmunds "trade in"/wholesale values are generally well above what dealers actually pay for the cars, so I would try to buy these on a lowball. I'd try to buy it for some amount below that trade in price -- particularly if there are many of these on the lot, go in low, and see low they will go...
Now I'm going to grab a drumstick and get a good seat in front of the TV and watch some football before any of my family members beat me to it. It's a mad house here, 25 hungry vulchers.
Again, have a happy Thanksgiving.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Down payment does not affect interest rate from a particular bank. Now not to complicate things, a certain bank might have you approved at lets say 8.5% with 85% percent of MSRP and another bank will have you approved at 9% of 100% of MSRP. So it depends. Ask if other lenders wanted your business with a larger down payment. But if you are working with just One lender it will not make a difference.
Like PCH says, there could be incentives on 06 models, But there also might be incentive rates on their certified preowned models. So look at all your options.
Car salesmen are sales professionals and often use sophisticated techniques on you. Depends on the individual, of course. Read these car dealer news headlines before visiting a car lot. Take care. :shades:
i've a question - i've tried the infiniti prices paid blog, but no one will answer me.
i've got a quote for a G35x base model with a sunroof for between $28 and $29k. three other dealers within a 30 mile radius say they can't match the price. they all come in at just about $1k over.
am i missing something here? should i "be afraid...be very afraid?" what should i be looking for?
when i pick up the supposedly new car, i'm thinking about taking a mechanic with me to look over the car. just to be sure that the car is in the proper condition.
could anyone here help me out? i'm really concerned that i'm missing something significant....
thanks for any feedback i can get.....i've gone back and forth from the audi a4 to the audi a6 to the infiniti g35x. my fear is causing me to think about the mazda 6 (less money to worry about losing). i'd like to wrap this up by wednesday, the 29th...
I presume that you are shopping for a 2006 model. If so, the Edmunds price guide reports that there is a $2,500 marketing support rebate paid from by the manufacturer to the dealer.
The invoice price of a 2006 G35x base model, including delivery and with a sunroof as the only option, is $32,142. Deduct the $2,500 rebate from that, and the effective invoice price is $29,642. Being that it is the model-end close (2007's are here with a new body style), there may be additional incentives beyond that that you don't know about.
You shouldn't need a mechanic to inspect a new car. It is smart to give it your inspection and put it through its paces before buying it -- cars are complicated enough to merit this -- and it couldn't hurt to demand the dealer's record of its PDI (pre-delivery inspection) and to find out if any extraordinary repairs have been done, such as body work (this does happen, particularly when cars get damaged in transit), but otherwise, a mechanic shouldn't be necessary.
If it turns out that the car is a demo (which may technically be "new" under the law because the car hasn't been registered), then I'd discount it as a used car and pay less than I would for a new car.
But otherwise, the dealer may be legit and offering you a perfectly good deal. Just be sure that you don't lose ground on the trade-in, financing, ridiculous "fees" such as doc fees of several hundred dollars, or unnecessary add-ons. Have your financing approved before going into the dealership, and if trading in, have a realistic but optimistic view of what your trade is worth (and shine it up so that it looks as good as possible.)
Good suggestion. My nephew bought a NEW 2005 Odyssey on November 30, 2004 for $ 3,100 LESS than MSRP. That same dealership's best deal on a 2006 Ody EX (cloth) in September 2006 was $ 28,130...not much of a discount.
LOL, what part was the trolling? The article that teaches salesman how to train/control their customers like an owner trains their dog... or the salesman who solicited sex from a customer short on funds?
Actually most of the articles are interesting/informative to buyers, and don't lump all salesmen into one category. And this discussion is on how to get the best deal. So, I really don't see it as trolling.
Hmmmmm....I suppose you could take a mechanic with you to the dealership, but if it is indeed a new car, that shouldn't be neccessary. Just shop at a dealership you trust.
Take a test drive along roads you're familiar with. Check for any "shimmy" in the brakes and steering. Check for squeaks and rattles. Pay attention to how the transmission shifts. Try all of the controls to make sure they work correctly. Inspect the car inside and out for any "blemishes". Check the trunk and under the hood to make sure they're clean...no dampness.
Aside from that, you should be fine.
A friend's fiance is shopping for an '07 G35x. I don't think it's a base model, though. Redesign was just done for the '07 model year. She's got a quote of $1,500 off any one they have in stock. I would imagine she can do a bit better once she sits down with the dealer.
New '06 base G35x models should be somewhere in that $28K-$29K range after subtracting the $2,500 dealer incentive. That looks about right. Obviously, the closer to that $28K price, the better. I think you're going to end up closer to $29K, though.
Infinitis come with a good warranty. I would reject any sort of "add-ons" for extended warranty. If they offer some sort of paint/interior protection, I'd reject that, too. Tax. title and licensing fees vary widely. If they look out of line, particularly title transfer fees (check with your locale to see what the actual cost is to transfer title), question them. There are legitimate costs incurred for the title transfer, however.
The poster who provided the links has made two posts, both of which include that link. I'm pretty sure that he's advertising.
That being said, it's a good link. I do like the blog that he linked to that included some excerpts from a car sales training manual:
In picking up my next book, "Cars and People: How to put the two together," by Anthony Ziegler, I thought that this would be a more professional approach to car sales. The book is larger, of a more standard format, and the author is supposedly known as one of the best.
Apparently I was wrong. On page 41, we come to the chapter titled "Getting and Keeping Control," from which I've excerpted three passages that make Mr. Davis' approach seem tame and respectful.
"How do you gain control? Have you ever trained and animal? Maybe your dog? Your dog wants your acceptance. He wants your love and affection...Tell him to sit. Show him what you mean by guiding his body. reward him with affection when he does what you've asked. Give him positive feedback each and every time he does what you ask. He will quickly learn what to do. The customer is controlled in the same manner, with minor exceptions"
"Whenever a customer does what you encourage be sure to offer immediate reward. Give him proper eye contact, a very healthy smile, and say "good."
"When you return to the dealership you tell them where to park. You tell them to climb out...Then turn and walk into the showroom while saying, "come with me." No alliteration necessary. You don't give reason for your dog to come to you. You just say "come" and he does, end of story. Walk into the showroom and tell them to sit down in your office while showing them where that is. They will sit. They will do almost everything you tell them to. Congratulations. You have control."
Control is very important in the process from the salesperson's perspective, because the goals are to get you to buy today, and to get the customer to focus on product benefit, rather than price. The best customer, from the dealer's perspective, will fail to see the big picture of the deal, and miss the ball in at least one the major profit areas (price, trade-in value, financing terms, "fees" and add-ons).
Since control is so important to them, my initial goal is to allow them to feel as if they have it, as you have a better chance of getting them to let their guard down and give you intel. If you are too smart upfront, they will be more guarded and less likely to tip their hands.
Belated thanks to everyone for all of the info about Corinthian "leather." (I just got caught up on all of my reading here.) It's entertaining and informative to see examples of how we are marketed to.
Thanks for the part about controlling the customer. It's pretty funny.
Of course, the best way for us buyers to prevent being controlled is to have an exact game plan before we enter the dealer.
Sometimes we visit dealers just to look at the cars and gather information, and we never buy a car on one of these visits.
Eventually we decide on the exact car we want and exactly how much we are willing to pay. Then we go to the dealer and, if they accept our offer, we buy the car.
Since we know exactly what we are going to do, the behavior of the salesman has no effect on our actions.
thanks for your help guys. Below i've copied the entry i made in the infiniti prices paid blog...Please be patient and read it; then provide any info you feel appropriate.
Thanks again..
--------------------- My price is actually just over $28,800 plus b.s. doc fees and dmv fees that they won't move on ($129 and $150, respectively). They say they will refund the difference if the DMV costs are less (which they know it is); of course, they are floating my money AND why should i give them an interest free loan???
i'm considering calling the state's attorney general, before i pick up the car, to force them to move on these ridiculous fees.
they seem annoyed that they have to honor the price and no other dealer in the area will match the price. they weren't particularly accomodating when i went there again today to test drive the car and inspect it in the daylight. I took a financial whiz friend with me, who has purchased at least five vehicles in his life. He was helpful, just by letting the people know that's he's purchased vehicles before...also, the salesman kept referring to how i got a really, really good price and i shouldn't expect to get any free services from the dealership..(in a matter of fact; i'm surprised you got this kind of tone)...
Of course, they are trying to sell me all kinds of insurance plans: tire protection, factory extended warranty (i may buy that one), simonizing, dents and dings protection, vehicle replacement, remote ignition start ($595), LoJack (I think I can buy this separate from them).
But they won't tell me what type of mechanic or dealership services they provide to their customers. It's really pissing me off...
i'm supposed to pick up the car on tuesday. however, i'm going to try another dealer (to see if they will price match) and see if i can get better service.
why is this so doggone difficult? what is going on here?
Peace and blessings to all out there, during this holiday season!
I'm looking at trading my 02 Navi for a 04 Ultimate that is loaded. The value of the 04 is $34,580 that has 33,000 miles They are going to sell the Nav for $31,451 after taxes. They are only giving me $13,000 for my 02 that has 72125 miles. I was trying to get them to bring the price down. Do anyone of you think I can get the price of the vehicle lower or my trade-in higher? Thank you!
they seem annoyed that they have to honor the price and no other dealer in the area will match the price.
If they have given you a price they are not annoyed. They want your business for the price they gave you.
But they won't tell me what type of mechanic or dealership services they provide to their customers. It's really pissing me off..
If you’re all that upset with the way they are treating you, you’ll have to buy elsewhere.
why is this so doggone difficult? what is going on here?
You may be contributing to the problem by trying to deal with someone you don’t feel you can trust. This is a very bad thing to do. Why would you want to do business with someone you don’t trust?
Personally, I don’t understand why you are upset with the dealer. They have given you a price that nobody else will match, what’s wrong with that? As for trying to sell you additional ‘stuff’ this is just part of the car buying process. If you don’t want the 'stuff', say NO and that will end that part of the F&I process. It’s really very simple.
Your biggest weapons are your own two feet. If you don’t like what’s going on, USE THEM. !!!
Nobody can make you buy anything you don’t want. That’s the best part about being a customer, you’re ALWAYS the boss.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
yogi...I'm with jmonroe on this one. For some reason, you don't trust the dealer. You control everything. You can walk on the deal any time. But, you said you've already planned on picking the car up on Tuesday. Did you already buy it? Signed the papers and made a deposit? If you're "backing out" of the deal, they may be a bit perturbed by that.
You don't like them? Go somewhere else and buy from someone you do trust. But, they've given you a good price (about right where I expected them to be). They have to honor the warranty (I'd still take a pass on the extended warranty, though). You can get warranty work done at any Infiniti dealership. Their "extra" processing fees don't seem way out of line. BMV fees are what they are in your area. Processing fees on the dealership's part are for processing all the paperwork. I've seen a lot worse than what you're being quoted. They already said they'd give you back any money if the BMV fees are different than what they quoted you.
Just curious, what is it exactly you want them to do?
I know in my 'burg, we only have one Infiniti dealership. They provide loaner cars for customers who bought from them...when they bring in their cars for service. I don't know if all Infiniti dealerships do that, though. Maybe yours doesn't. Maybe they don't offer anything other than to sell a car to you. That may also be why the other dealerships won't touch their price on the car.
Yeah, you got me there. I guess there are exceptions to every rule.
We should be glad those refrigerator sales people, from the cold country, don't sell cars down here. Can you imagine what would happen to us know-it-alls then?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Because Eskimos need refrigerators just like you and me. Maybe even more so since many Eskimos hunt their food and they need more storage space for their kill.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
okay guys, thanks for the input. it appears that i am a bit too high strung on this one..you are right, i don't trust dealers because i've had a hard time with them over the past few months. i picked these guys because two of my friends bought their BMW's from them and haven't had necessarily bad experiences. I've done so much research that I've found records about recent class action suits against dealers in my area for price fixing (what i refered to in one blog as "collusino"). But I'll explain my specific concerns a bit better.
DMV Fees: They are in the business of selling cars. They know how much it costs to register and get the license plates (the law requires them to do so). It is always less than $100. To charge a flat rate of $150 and say they'll refund the difference - leaves you open to waiting for them to give you back your money AFTER they've finished using it. One never knows how long that will take.
Maintenance services: Do they provide free oil changes? Will they throw in a gas Card (not likely), etc? Do they have a list of maintenance/repair fees for wearable parts and labor (many dealers do)?, etc.
Infiniti corporation provides loaner cars to customers who bring their cars in for repairs that take longer than 30 minutes or so...
An interesting story here is that it took me four months to negotiate this price with the dealer. I did it all over the internet. The first series of e-mails (I used my initials, so they wouldn't know i am a woman; and i used my work address, to make it more difficult to identify my nationality). I interacted with three different salesmen; they would not go below $31k. They all gave the same b.s. line - I can't go below invoice; check edmunds. I e-mailed another dealer, who wouldn't provide a similar car for a price that was advertised on the internet. That price is still on autotrader.com. Finally, I walked into the dealership last week and asked for a price near $28k. He told me he couldn't do it and a series of other lies that I called him on the next day. Lastly, I replied to an e-mail from the internet sales manager specifying my price and my request that he meet it. He said he would. I told him I'd be in on saturday. That was yesterday, instead I went in on Friday and put a deposit on the car.
They've asked me to pick up the car at 4pm on tuesday. I will.
I've other questions I'll put in another subject log..
Thanks to everyone for your input!! Again very, very happy holidays and happy driving!!
My price is actually just over $28,800 plus b.s. doc fees and dmv fees that they won't move on ($129 and $150, respectively). They say they will refund the difference if the DMV costs are less (which they know it is); of course, they are floating my money AND why should i give them an interest free loan???
A "doc fee" (which isn't really a "fee" at all, but simply more profit for the dealer -- imagine what we would all think if the local supermarket starting demanding a "receipt fee"!) of that amount isn't probably so bad. If the overall deal is skinny, including the doc fee, then you might be OK.
As for the DMV fee, you're frankly being a bit petty here. The dealer isn't (or at least, shouldn't be) profiting on the registration fee, this is money that they will have to pay to the state or county where you are getting your plates and tags. It makes sense for the dealer to take a bit extra for cushion so that they don't have to come out of pocket for your registration costs, just so long as they ultimately refund the difference. Unless the amount of the prepayment is significantly above what the likely fee would be or they have a reputation for not paying it back to their customers, then I wouldn't worry about this at all.
they seem annoyed that they have to honor the price and no other dealer in the area will match the price. they weren't particularly accomodating when i went there again today to test drive the car and inspect it in the daylight.
That's because they have already locked in the price with you, so going forward, every minute spent with you that doesn't offer them with the possibility of bumping up the price again is considered to be a waste of time, particularly when you bring a friend whose feedback you might use to change your mind about buying. Salespeople work on commission, and they would rather spend time with a new potential buyer than burn more time with someone who is already buying at a fairly low price. (Not much commission there, and it won't be increasing from here.)
Also, my guess is that you are projecting a strong air of suspicion, which the dealer finds offputting. While I'm all for being alert and keeping your eyes open, you might be taking some of your mistrust a bit too far.
Of course, they are trying to sell me all kinds of insurance plans: tire protection, factory extended warranty (i may buy that one), simonizing, dents and dings protection, vehicle replacement, remote ignition start ($595), LoJack (I think I can buy this separate from them).
The F&I guy's job is to try to stack more profit on top of the deal. Just don't buy any of that stuff, and don't worry about it. You can listen to his pitch, say "no" and be done with it, no big deal.
As for the extended warranty, I wouldn't bother getting one for a Lexus, Infiniti or Acura, although I would honestly consider it for an Audi, MB, or BMW. Just my opinion.
But they won't tell me what type of mechanic or dealership services they provide to their customers.
I judge the service department seperately from the dealership. Do your own research -- Infiniti owner's online forums would be a good place to start to trade tips on good and bad service departments -- and go to the dealer with a good service department, whether or not you bought the car there.
why is this so doggone difficult? what is going on here?
Read some of the stuff above. The dealer's mission is to make as much money as possible from each customer, which is largely determined by what the dealer can get away with each customer -- some customers will leave little profit, but others will generate significant profit.
Car sales are unique from purchasing other consumer products because there are several areas in which dealers make profit -- trade-in, fees and financing offer potential for profit in addition to the sales price itself -- which motivates them to try to earn as much as they can whereever they can. The only way that the dealership can turn a low profit deal into a high profit one is to go through its routine and try to get what it can in all of these areas.
Just as long as you understand what their goals are and how to avoid the pitfalls, none of that should present a problem for you. Your job is to negotiate for your side, to get the best terms possible and to understand the whole transaction so that you don't get taken in any one of these areas. Your job and the dealership's jobs are therefore different, and I'd just accept that reality and move forward.
Thanks for the part about controlling the customer. It's pretty funny.
You should check out the customer comments about this book on Amazon. If you ignore the battle between those who prefer the Davis book and those who prefer Ziegler, you'll see that most of the comments made by those who claim to be in the car business are very positive. Those who are critical are generally not upset about the tone of the discussion, but that they feel that the book is too basic. I didn't notice any negative feedback from them about the "dog" comments...
They all gave the same b.s. line - I can't go below invoice; check edmunds.
Just because Edmunds has very good information does not mean that dealers in your area are obliged to comply with the Edmunds price. What you are experiencing is the market conditions in your area. Since you found the one dealer who is out of step with the others, is good for you and you should be fortunate for this, not antagonistic and mistrusting toward them because of it..
I e-mailed another dealer, who wouldn't provide a similar car for a price that was advertised on the internet. That price is still on autotrader.com.
Similar to above. No dealer has to match another dealer’s price. We live in a free enterprise system. We can’t put a gun to their heads just because we want them to compete against each other. We have laws that will not allow us to do this. So, again I don’t see your gripe.
To be perfectly honest with you, from what you have explained, if I were a dealer, I wouldn’t want your business since you appear to be the type of customer that will never be satisfied. A savvy dealer would have recognized this about four months ago and would have thrown in the towel. This should make you wonder what type of a store you’re dealing with.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
DMV Fees: They are in the business of selling cars. They know how much it costs to register and get the license plates (the law requires them to do so). It is always less than $100. To charge a flat rate of $150 and say they'll refund the difference - leaves you open to waiting for them to give you back your money AFTER they've finished using it. One never knows how long that will take.
Does your state 'require' the dealer to buy the tag? In my state we get a 'paper tag' and we go down ourselves and get the auto registered and tag.
This means we have 'doc fees' but no 'tag fees'. If you can buy the tag yourself, do it, and they should not charge you this fee.
I've long felt 'doc fees' are rediculous. The dealer can't sell a car without filling out some papers. This is his problem, not mine to pay for. If he must include it in a 'sale price', ok, but when I buy a car, there are certain things the dealer must do. Speedometer reading, bill of sale, MSO, etc. He's got to do this, it's part of doing his business.
Comments
Perfectly said. Now that it's blindingly obvious that several members are simply not going to agree with others' buying methods, can we stop beating it into the ground?
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Graphic and Snake, you guys are right, I should have said "it works best for me" in my original post. Some of us just don't like the back and forth "stuff". Properly done, with professional courtesy, the Bobst method works best for me.
I think this curious is peddling a service. I have a problem with people in the car business who sell a few cars and write these cheesy books on how to buy a car, and the services that make consumers think that the dealer is going to take your first born. These people are worse than the dealers by far. And let me tell you dealers have to dodge these vendors who say they can double our sales with a 100000 piece mailer, or tent sales, or Crappy CRM tools. And motivational speakers who will make us increase sales that charge 225 a seat that includes not even a soda, and here the same rhetoric we here in saturday meetings.
I feel the same way about "trainers". Never could understand how some "shotgun" mailer would yield more leads than could be handled, either. No target audience? No good!
Interesting thoughts about focusing on seniors and those looking for the "convenience factor" in buying a car. Obviously, you'd probably focus on the "upper end", income wise, of the target market.
You've clearly got your dealership contacts. Probably expand those to include the management in high line dealerships (where your clients would like to shop). Networking for clients....hmmmm....maybe some upper crust "social clubs".
Interesting concept!
Kind of as a side step, there's a show on INHD called Wall Street. It folloows the careers of people who are trying to make money, and find clients for their self-funded hedge funds. Theese people play on the periphery of the mainstream investor. They travel in circles well above their social status to recruit. I would think that would relate to your concept (not saying that you aren't among the "elite" of the social ladder
-After a dealer sells a car, it collects a "holdback" from the manufacturer, which is equivalent to about 2-3% of either invoice or MSRP. You can get a list of most of them from Edmunds.
-The manufacturers may pay additional incentives (similar to rebates) to the dealers for selling cars with excessive inventories (import manufacturers try to keep their inventory levels below about 45-60 days, while domestics will often have 60-90 days' worth). In addition, there are often incentives paid to move out inventory at the end of the model year to make room for the new cars, particularly when the model is changing over. You can find out about some of these from Edmunds and from Automotive News magazine, but not all of these are published. (Sometimes, the auto ads in the classifieds section of your newspaper can give you a hint about some of these -- it's worth looking at them to see if you can figure it out, but don't count on it.)
-There may be other motivations to move cars cheaply that aren't published, such as dealer allocations. For a dealer to get its hands on a hot car that can be sold at MSRP, the dealer may be pushed by the manufacturer to sell some of the slower movers if it wishes to earn the right to buy one of the hot ones. Dealers might be motivated to dump one of the less desirable cars at a deeper discount if it helps it to get its hands on the hot car that will more than make up for that discount.
-There are also dishonest tricks that the dealer may play, such as selling you that $500-below-invoice car with a several-hundred dollar "doc fee", unnecessary rustproofing, a costly "pre delivery inspection" or some other bogus charges that are really just padding on the bill. So make sure that "$500 below invoice" really means just that.
-The dealer may try to use the lure of the low purchase price in order to make the money back on the trade-in and/or the F&I department. Be sure that you don't get taken to the cleaners in these other two departments while celebrating your great $500-below-invoice deal.
If there is a car that the dealer is actively marketing at $500 below invoice, assuming no tricks, then there is probably a large incentive being paid to the dealer post-sale. It's not enough to know the invoice, you also need to know as much about the incentives as possible.
That depends on the car and what you consider profit.
Is there still "wiggle" room?
That depends on what the car is and what the market for that car in your area. There might be some wiggle room there might not.
Are they advertising the car for $500 under invoice? If so then a aware that many of those ads are just bait, the car you can get at that price is either gone or something you don't want. If the ad is legitiment then they might be some wiggle room but not much.
Also you need to get away from the "dealer cost plus reasonable profit" frame of mind. You may think that $18K would cover the cost and give the dealer a good profit and you might be right. However if that car is selling like hotcakes for $19K you are going to pay $19K.
What car are you looking to buy? That will answer a lot of questions.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
First time poster here, looking for used-car buying some advice. I will first try and spell out my situation in as much detail as I can then try and learn something from the pros here:
Financial Situation:
After being unemployed for about a year, I got a new job about 6 months ago, making 45k+. My credit score is 670. Little in the way of open credit. I rent. I have two credit cards, with about $300 used in about $3000 credit available, combined. No other debt. Current car is almost 10 yrs old, and has been paid long ago. I've saved enough to put 5k down on a car purchase.
Now, for my car buying situation:
I am interested in a slightly used 2006 Hyundai Sonata. I live in a large city with lots of dealers. I believe I can get (or at least I hope I can get) a 10k-25k mile used Hyundai Sonata GLS for $13500. Most dealers have them listed from 13,900 to 15,000 that I see (I've kept with prices for about 6 weeks now), so I believe that 13,500 +TTL is feasible. I have *never* bought a car before from a dealer. All my previous purchases have been from friends, relatives, or THROUGH friends and relatives, so I am pretty much new to dealing with a dealer. I hope you take that into consideration if you notice that some of my questions sound naive or obvious. That being said, I've read up a *lot* on Edmunds.com about dealing with dealers.
I will be dealing on final price +TTL only (no monthly payment, 4-square games for me), so I'm pretty secure on that aspect I believe. My current car is NOT on its last legs, so I also don't feel pressure to buy something NOW, though I believe in one week (end of Nov.) would be good buying time.
Now, for my car buying questions:
1. When people put money down, how is that actually done? I really doubt that they'd just take a check. I don't have enough on my Cards to use them to put the amount that I want, so how would I do it? I'd hate to look like a fool asking the sales guy a question like that, so I am asking you guys.
2. Insurance. How does it work for a new car? I currently only carry liability, and pretty much that's what I've had for the last 7 years, but since I'll be getting this car with someone else as the lienholder, I'm certain they'll want full coverage before they'll let me drive off. Will that be the case? How does that work? Is it something that's arranged with the insurance company beforehand?
3. Financing. I got financing from Wells Fargo, but I'm not quite pleased with the rate. I got 9.29% for a used car from a dealer. Considering I'm planning on putting $5,000 down (which I was never asked about during my online application), I believe I can get a better rate, but I don't know how having that loan approved would affect any other offers I might get. Would it benefit me to go through e-loan or another multiple-offer site? Perhaps a credit union, even if I am not a customer? I am also wondering if I can get a better deal from the dealer by using the pre-approval as leverage? Given my financial situation, how likely do you think that is?
Ok, I think that is it for now. If I have missed something for which I should be on the lookout, please let me know. Also, if you need a bit more info feel free to ask. Thank you for reading this far, and thank you in advance to all respondents.
The nice thing is that everything I want is standard...and the warranty really rocks!
Dealers love pennies, so bring plenty of them. Nothing brings joy to a dealers heart like counting a half million pennies.
Seriously a check should be fine. If they have any concerns you could always get it certified. But I have had no issues writing large checks for down payments. Dealers will only take so much on a credit card because they get charged a percentage of what the take in on a credit card. So they could lose hundreds taking a $5k downpayment.
2. Insurance. How does it work for a new car?
Most insurance companies will carry over your current insurance to a new car for a reasonable amount of time. However since you only have liability talk with your agent before buying.
3. Financing. I got financing from Wells Fargo, but I'm not quite pleased with the rate.
then shop around, do you have a credit union? if so check with them. Check with your bank. Since I suggested talking to your insurance agent about the insurance ask him if they have anything for you. Many insurance companies do make car loans. Shop around and see what you can get. Then see if the dealership can beat what you have.
If I have missed something for which I should be on the lookout, please let me know.
Yes, test drive the you now what out of that car. If you can bring along someone who can follow you as you test drive the car (to make sure its in alignment). Test the ride and alignment (does it pull to either side) at various speeds. Park it in a parking lot away from the dealership and take a long hard look at it. Look under the hood, in the truck and in the door jams for any sign that there was repaired damage. Drive it in tight circles forward and backwards in the parking lot.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
1. Dealership should take your check. In all reality, they will have some sort of "electronic gizmo" that will deduct the amount from your checking account immediately.
2. Since it sounds like you're financing, the financial institution you get your car loan with will require you to have comprehensive, collision, liability coverage. Get a quote from your agent on what that will cost. Also, have your agent's/insurance company's phone number at the ready so the dealership can confirm your coverage.
3. 9.39% sounds high (actually, it sounds outrageous). Who got that rate for you? If it's the dealership, apply at e-loan, or one of the other on-line car loan places to see where they put your rate. As you say, a credit union would work, too. Easy enough to become a customer of a credit union....just join up. You'll probably have to make a minimal deposit with them, though ($50-%100). Not knowing your credit score, I would hope someone would be able to do much better if you don't have any "dings" on your credit report. Once you get the lower rates from e-loan and/or a credit union, take that rate to the dealer and ask them to beat it.
670 isn't a bad credit score. It's not one of the best, either. But, it should be good enough to beat the 9.29%.
Good luck....let us know how it turns out.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Haven't looked to see if there are any incentives. If there are, deduct those from your offer, too.
Let us know how it turns out.
I have a general comment. If this is your first time buying a car do not be afraid to ask questions if you do not understand something, and keep asking until you do understand. If you don't understand something and then it comes back to bite you, then you will feel like a fool.
All of those super low interest rates offered by everyone a few years ago and then the tendancy of the domestics to continue offering 0% deals has made people expect super low rates.
1. When people put money down, how is that actually done? I really doubt that they'd just take a check. I don't have enough on my Cards to use them to put the amount that I want, so how would I do it? I'd hate to look like a fool asking the sales guy a question like that, so I am asking you guys.
you most certaintly can just write out a check. i would think that is what happens most of the time. you could always get a certified check from you bank/credit union if that makes you feel more comfortable. most dealerships i've been to do not take credit cards. the reason i get most often is that is it is very easy to dispute charges and then all sorts of headaches come after that process starts.
2. Insurance. How does it work for a new car? I currently only carry liability, and pretty much that's what I've had for the last 7 years, but since I'll be getting this car with someone else as the lienholder, I'm certain they'll want full coverage before they'll let me drive off. Will that be the case? How does that work? Is it something that's arranged with the insurance company beforehand?
you will need full coverage on any car you owe money on in most, if not all, states. you will need to bring your current insurance info w/ you to the dealership when you buy. it would be good(but not required) to call the insurance guy before hand to let them now, if for no other reason than to find out exactly what it will cost you. i always seem to forget. you usually have around 2 weeks from the date of purchase to call.
3. Financing. I got financing from Wells Fargo, but I'm not quite pleased with the rate. I got 9.29% for a used car from a dealer. Considering I'm planning on putting $5,000 down (which I was never asked about during my online application), I believe I can get a better rate, but I don't know how having that loan approved would affect any other offers I might get. Would it benefit me to go through e-loan or another multiple-offer site? Perhaps a credit union, even if I am not a customer? I am also wondering if I can get a better deal from the dealer by using the pre-approval as leverage? Given my financial situation, how likely do you think that is?
as far as financing goes, capitolone and e-loan usually have the lowest rates on-line. but check w/ you're own bank/credit union as well. if you are a memeber at costco, they also get a member only rate at capitolone which is usually .25% lower than the post rates.
Ok, I think that is it for now. If I have missed something for which I should be on the lookout, please let me know. Also, if you need a bit more info feel free to ask. Thank you for reading this far, and thank you in advance to all respondents.
as you might have read during your research, just be careful once you get in the finance office with all the tricks that are pulled in there. know what you want to pay and don't be afraid to say no. since this a used car, a carfax report might not be a bad idea. go over the car tooth and nail. hope this helps.
I'm the original poster of this question.
First of all, I'd like to thank everyone that took the time to read my posting, and doubly so to those the commented on it. I learned a lot in just these few hours.
For starters, it's ok to pay by check. Got it. Thanks.
About the insurance thing, thanks to everyone who chimed in. I guess this is a question better asked of my insurance agent, huh?
On the "not looking like a fool" part, I understand the need to ask until I understand. My concern was asking from someone whose interests (making a decent profit) were at odds with mine (getting a good price). I would rather ask from a forum like this one, where the respondents have no financial stake on the answer.
Another question that I guess I should have asked the first time... Does a bigger down payment play a part on the interest rate that I can expect. i.e., if I up the down payment to, say, $7,000 as opposed to $5,000 (which I probably could), would it make a difference on the financing I could get?
Thank you again for your help so far.
-You might consider getting a new car, rather than a used one. At the moment, there is a $1500 factory-to-customer offer on Sonatas, and you can guess that there are probably additional unpublished factory-to-dealer incentives on the 2006 models that could allow for some steeper discounting.
Plus, you may get a better interest rate on a new car loan than you would on a used car loan. If so, the lower interest rate could partially offset the higher price of a new car. Ask for a quote on both new and used car loans from a credit union and other lenders, and see what you get.
-I'd frankly be inclined to pay less than you are willing to pay for the used version of this particular car. Sonatas are sold heavily to fleets -- fully half of the new Sonatas registered during the first half of the 2006 model year were sold to fleets --- so used 1-2 year old models of these cars get dumped onto the market cheaply and in large quantities, which should make them available to dealers at a low price. Both Kelley Blue Book and Edmunds "trade in"/wholesale values are generally well above what dealers actually pay for the cars, so I would try to buy these on a lowball. I'd try to buy it for some amount below that trade in price -- particularly if there are many of these on the lot, go in low, and see low they will go...
Again, have a happy Thanksgiving.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Like PCH says, there could be incentives on 06 models, But there also might be incentive rates on their certified preowned models. So look at all your options.
Car salesmen are sales professionals and often use sophisticated techniques on you. Depends on the individual, of course. Read these car dealer news headlines before visiting a car lot. Take care. :shades:
i've a question - i've tried the infiniti prices paid blog, but no one will answer me.
i've got a quote for a G35x base model with a sunroof for between $28 and $29k. three other dealers within a 30 mile radius say they can't match the price. they all come in at just about $1k over.
am i missing something here? should i "be afraid...be very afraid?" what should i be looking for?
when i pick up the supposedly new car, i'm thinking about taking a mechanic with me to look over the car. just to be sure that the car is in the proper condition.
could anyone here help me out? i'm really concerned that i'm missing something significant....
thanks for any feedback i can get.....i've gone back and forth from the audi a4 to the audi a6 to the infiniti g35x. my fear is causing me to think about the mazda 6 (less money to worry about losing). i'd like to wrap this up by wednesday, the 29th...
thanks again in advance....
I presume that you are shopping for a 2006 model. If so, the Edmunds price guide reports that there is a $2,500 marketing support rebate paid from by the manufacturer to the dealer.
The invoice price of a 2006 G35x base model, including delivery and with a sunroof as the only option, is $32,142. Deduct the $2,500 rebate from that, and the effective invoice price is $29,642. Being that it is the model-end close (2007's are here with a new body style), there may be additional incentives beyond that that you don't know about.
You shouldn't need a mechanic to inspect a new car. It is smart to give it your inspection and put it through its paces before buying it -- cars are complicated enough to merit this -- and it couldn't hurt to demand the dealer's record of its PDI (pre-delivery inspection) and to find out if any extraordinary repairs have been done, such as body work (this does happen, particularly when cars get damaged in transit), but otherwise, a mechanic shouldn't be necessary.
If it turns out that the car is a demo (which may technically be "new" under the law because the car hasn't been registered), then I'd discount it as a used car and pay less than I would for a new car.
But otherwise, the dealer may be legit and offering you a perfectly good deal. Just be sure that you don't lose ground on the trade-in, financing, ridiculous "fees" such as doc fees of several hundred dollars, or unnecessary add-ons. Have your financing approved before going into the dealership, and if trading in, have a realistic but optimistic view of what your trade is worth (and shine it up so that it looks as good as possible.)
That same dealership's best deal on a 2006 Ody EX (cloth) in September 2006 was $ 28,130...not much of a discount.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Actually most of the articles are interesting/informative to buyers, and don't lump all salesmen into one category. And this discussion is on how to get the best deal. So, I really don't see it as trolling.
Take a test drive along roads you're familiar with. Check for any "shimmy" in the brakes and steering. Check for squeaks and rattles. Pay attention to how the transmission shifts. Try all of the controls to make sure they work correctly. Inspect the car inside and out for any "blemishes". Check the trunk and under the hood to make sure they're clean...no dampness.
Aside from that, you should be fine.
A friend's fiance is shopping for an '07 G35x. I don't think it's a base model, though. Redesign was just done for the '07 model year. She's got a quote of $1,500 off any one they have in stock. I would imagine she can do a bit better once she sits down with the dealer.
New '06 base G35x models should be somewhere in that $28K-$29K range after subtracting the $2,500 dealer incentive. That looks about right. Obviously, the closer to that $28K price, the better. I think you're going to end up closer to $29K, though.
Infinitis come with a good warranty. I would reject any sort of "add-ons" for extended warranty. If they offer some sort of paint/interior protection, I'd reject that, too. Tax. title and licensing fees vary widely. If they look out of line, particularly title transfer fees (check with your locale to see what the actual cost is to transfer title), question them. There are legitimate costs incurred for the title transfer, however.
That being said, it's a good link. I do like the blog that he linked to that included some excerpts from a car sales training manual:
In picking up my next book, "Cars and People: How to put the two together," by Anthony Ziegler, I thought that this would be a more professional approach to car sales. The book is larger, of a more standard format, and the author is supposedly known as one of the best.
Apparently I was wrong. On page 41, we come to the chapter titled "Getting and Keeping Control," from which I've excerpted three passages that make Mr. Davis' approach seem tame and respectful.
"How do you gain control? Have you ever trained and animal? Maybe your dog? Your dog wants your acceptance. He wants your love and affection...Tell him to sit. Show him what you mean by guiding his body. reward him with affection when he does what you've asked. Give him positive feedback each and every time he does what you ask. He will quickly learn what to do. The customer is controlled in the same manner, with minor exceptions"
"Whenever a customer does what you encourage be sure to offer immediate reward. Give him proper eye contact, a very healthy smile, and say "good."
"When you return to the dealership you tell them where to park. You tell them to climb out...Then turn and walk into the showroom while saying, "come with me." No alliteration necessary. You don't give reason for your dog to come to you. You just say "come" and he does, end of story. Walk into the showroom and tell them to sit down in your office while showing them where that is. They will sit. They will do almost everything you tell them to. Congratulations. You have control."
Control is very important in the process from the salesperson's perspective, because the goals are to get you to buy today, and to get the customer to focus on product benefit, rather than price. The best customer, from the dealer's perspective, will fail to see the big picture of the deal, and miss the ball in at least one the major profit areas (price, trade-in value, financing terms, "fees" and add-ons).
Since control is so important to them, my initial goal is to allow them to feel as if they have it, as you have a better chance of getting them to let their guard down and give you intel. If you are too smart upfront, they will be more guarded and less likely to tip their hands.
Of course, the best way for us buyers to prevent being controlled is to have an exact game plan before we enter the dealer.
Sometimes we visit dealers just to look at the cars and gather information, and we never buy a car on one of these visits.
Eventually we decide on the exact car we want and exactly how much we are willing to pay. Then we go to the dealer and, if they accept our offer, we buy the car.
Since we know exactly what we are going to do, the behavior of the salesman has no effect on our actions.
Doesn't make sense. I love it when a pompous author makes a mistake... Kind of blows their auro of omniscience.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Thanks again..
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My price is actually just over $28,800 plus b.s. doc fees and dmv fees that they won't move on ($129 and $150, respectively). They say they will refund the difference if the DMV costs are less (which they know it is); of course, they are floating my money AND why should i give them an interest free loan???
i'm considering calling the state's attorney general, before i pick up the car, to force them to move on these ridiculous fees.
they seem annoyed that they have to honor the price and no other dealer in the area will match the price. they weren't particularly accomodating when i went there again today to test drive the car and inspect it in the daylight. I took a financial whiz friend with me, who has purchased at least five vehicles in his life. He was helpful, just by letting the people know that's he's purchased vehicles before...also, the salesman kept referring to how i got a really, really good price and i shouldn't expect to get any free services from the dealership..(in a matter of fact; i'm surprised you got this kind of tone)...
Of course, they are trying to sell me all kinds of insurance plans: tire protection, factory extended warranty (i may buy that one), simonizing, dents and dings protection, vehicle replacement, remote ignition start ($595), LoJack (I think I can buy this separate from them).
But they won't tell me what type of mechanic or dealership services they provide to their customers. It's really pissing me off...
i'm supposed to pick up the car on tuesday. however, i'm going to try another dealer (to see if they will price match) and see if i can get better service.
why is this so doggone difficult? what is going on here?
Peace and blessings to all out there, during this holiday season!
Thank you!
If they have given you a price they are not annoyed. They want your business for the price they gave you.
But they won't tell me what type of mechanic or dealership services they provide to their customers. It's really pissing me off..
If you’re all that upset with the way they are treating you, you’ll have to buy elsewhere.
why is this so doggone difficult? what is going on here?
You may be contributing to the problem by trying to deal with someone you don’t feel you can trust. This is a very bad thing to do. Why would you want to do business with someone you don’t trust?
Personally, I don’t understand why you are upset with the dealer. They have given you a price that nobody else will match, what’s wrong with that? As for trying to sell you additional ‘stuff’ this is just part of the car buying process. If you don’t want the 'stuff', say NO and that will end that part of the F&I process. It’s really very simple.
Your biggest weapons are your own two feet. If you don’t like what’s going on, USE THEM. !!!
Nobody can make you buy anything you don’t want. That’s the best part about being a customer, you’re ALWAYS the boss.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Then why do Eskimos own so many refrigerators?
You don't like them? Go somewhere else and buy from someone you do trust. But, they've given you a good price (about right where I expected them to be). They have to honor the warranty (I'd still take a pass on the extended warranty, though). You can get warranty work done at any Infiniti dealership. Their "extra" processing fees don't seem way out of line. BMV fees are what they are in your area. Processing fees on the dealership's part are for processing all the paperwork. I've seen a lot worse than what you're being quoted. They already said they'd give you back any money if the BMV fees are different than what they quoted you.
Just curious, what is it exactly you want them to do?
I know in my 'burg, we only have one Infiniti dealership. They provide loaner cars for customers who bought from them...when they bring in their cars for service. I don't know if all Infiniti dealerships do that, though. Maybe yours doesn't. Maybe they don't offer anything other than to sell a car to you. That may also be why the other dealerships won't touch their price on the car.
Buying a car is not difficult. You are making it difficult for yourself.
Yeah, you got me there. I guess there are exceptions to every rule.
We should be glad those refrigerator sales people, from the cold country, don't sell cars down here. Can you imagine what would happen to us know-it-alls then?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Because Eskimos need refrigerators just like you and me. Maybe even more so since many Eskimos hunt their food and they need more storage space for their kill.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
DMV Fees: They are in the business of selling cars. They know how much it costs to register and get the license plates (the law requires them to do so). It is always less than $100. To charge a flat rate of $150 and say they'll refund the difference - leaves you open to waiting for them to give you back your money AFTER they've finished using it. One never knows how long that will take.
Maintenance services: Do they provide free oil changes? Will they throw in a gas Card (not likely), etc? Do they have a list of maintenance/repair fees for wearable parts and labor (many dealers do)?, etc.
Infiniti corporation provides loaner cars to customers who bring their cars in for repairs that take longer than 30 minutes or so...
An interesting story here is that it took me four months to negotiate this price with the dealer. I did it all over the internet. The first series of e-mails (I used my initials, so they wouldn't know i am a woman; and i used my work address, to make it more difficult to identify my nationality). I interacted with three different salesmen; they would not go below $31k. They all gave the same b.s. line - I can't go below invoice; check edmunds. I e-mailed another dealer, who wouldn't provide a similar car for a price that was advertised on the internet. That price is still on autotrader.com. Finally, I walked into the dealership last week and asked for a price near $28k. He told me he couldn't do it and a series of other lies that I called him on the next day. Lastly, I replied to an e-mail from the internet sales manager specifying my price and my request that he meet it. He said he would. I told him I'd be in on saturday. That was yesterday, instead I went in on Friday and put a deposit on the car.
They've asked me to pick up the car at 4pm on tuesday. I will.
I've other questions I'll put in another subject log..
Thanks to everyone for your input!! Again very, very happy holidays and happy driving!!
All comments are welcome...
A "doc fee" (which isn't really a "fee" at all, but simply more profit for the dealer -- imagine what we would all think if the local supermarket starting demanding a "receipt fee"!) of that amount isn't probably so bad. If the overall deal is skinny, including the doc fee, then you might be OK.
As for the DMV fee, you're frankly being a bit petty here. The dealer isn't (or at least, shouldn't be) profiting on the registration fee, this is money that they will have to pay to the state or county where you are getting your plates and tags. It makes sense for the dealer to take a bit extra for cushion so that they don't have to come out of pocket for your registration costs, just so long as they ultimately refund the difference. Unless the amount of the prepayment is significantly above what the likely fee would be or they have a reputation for not paying it back to their customers, then I wouldn't worry about this at all.
they seem annoyed that they have to honor the price and no other dealer in the area will match the price. they weren't particularly accomodating when i went there again today to test drive the car and inspect it in the daylight.
That's because they have already locked in the price with you, so going forward, every minute spent with you that doesn't offer them with the possibility of bumping up the price again is considered to be a waste of time, particularly when you bring a friend whose feedback you might use to change your mind about buying. Salespeople work on commission, and they would rather spend time with a new potential buyer than burn more time with someone who is already buying at a fairly low price. (Not much commission there, and it won't be increasing from here.)
Also, my guess is that you are projecting a strong air of suspicion, which the dealer finds offputting. While I'm all for being alert and keeping your eyes open, you might be taking some of your mistrust a bit too far.
Of course, they are trying to sell me all kinds of insurance plans: tire protection, factory extended warranty (i may buy that one), simonizing, dents and dings protection, vehicle replacement, remote ignition start ($595), LoJack (I think I can buy this separate from them).
The F&I guy's job is to try to stack more profit on top of the deal. Just don't buy any of that stuff, and don't worry about it. You can listen to his pitch, say "no" and be done with it, no big deal.
As for the extended warranty, I wouldn't bother getting one for a Lexus, Infiniti or Acura, although I would honestly consider it for an Audi, MB, or BMW. Just my opinion.
But they won't tell me what type of mechanic or dealership services they provide to their customers.
I judge the service department seperately from the dealership. Do your own research -- Infiniti owner's online forums would be a good place to start to trade tips on good and bad service departments -- and go to the dealer with a good service department, whether or not you bought the car there.
why is this so doggone difficult? what is going on here?
Read some of the stuff above. The dealer's mission is to make as much money as possible from each customer, which is largely determined by what the dealer can get away with each customer -- some customers will leave little profit, but others will generate significant profit.
Car sales are unique from purchasing other consumer products because there are several areas in which dealers make profit -- trade-in, fees and financing offer potential for profit in addition to the sales price itself -- which motivates them to try to earn as much as they can whereever they can. The only way that the dealership can turn a low profit deal into a high profit one is to go through its routine and try to get what it can in all of these areas.
Just as long as you understand what their goals are and how to avoid the pitfalls, none of that should present a problem for you. Your job is to negotiate for your side, to get the best terms possible and to understand the whole transaction so that you don't get taken in any one of these areas. Your job and the dealership's jobs are therefore different, and I'd just accept that reality and move forward.
You should check out the customer comments about this book on Amazon. If you ignore the battle between those who prefer the Davis book and those who prefer Ziegler, you'll see that most of the comments made by those who claim to be in the car business are very positive. Those who are critical are generally not upset about the tone of the discussion, but that they feel that the book is too basic. I didn't notice any negative feedback from them about the "dog" comments...
Just because Edmunds has very good information does not mean that dealers in your area are obliged to comply with the Edmunds price. What you are experiencing is the market conditions in your area. Since you found the one dealer who is out of step with the others, is good for you and you should be fortunate for this, not antagonistic and mistrusting toward them because of it..
I e-mailed another dealer, who wouldn't provide a similar car for a price that was advertised on the internet. That price is still on autotrader.com.
Similar to above. No dealer has to match another dealer’s price. We live in a free enterprise system. We can’t put a gun to their heads just because we want them to compete against each other. We have laws that will not allow us to do this. So, again I don’t see your gripe.
To be perfectly honest with you, from what you have explained, if I were a dealer, I wouldn’t want your business since you appear to be the type of customer that will never be satisfied. A savvy dealer would have recognized this about four months ago and would have thrown in the towel. This should make you wonder what type of a store you’re dealing with.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis V8 with Ultimate Package and '18 Legacy Limited 6 cyl
Does your state 'require' the dealer to buy the tag? In my state we get a 'paper tag' and we go down ourselves and get the auto registered and tag.
This means we have 'doc fees' but no 'tag fees'. If you can buy the tag yourself, do it, and they should not charge you this fee.
I've long felt 'doc fees' are rediculous. The dealer can't sell a car without filling out some papers. This is his problem, not mine to pay for. If he must include it in a 'sale price', ok, but when I buy a car, there are certain things the dealer must do. Speedometer reading, bill of sale, MSO, etc. He's got to do this, it's part of doing his business.