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Keep that awesome car. You deserve it! Enjoy your purchase and let us know how fast 220hp goes. I haven't driven a vehicle with that kind of power in a long time (if ever).
-Moo
Your killing me MOO!
Everytime time I see that I have to laugh out loud. It is the funniest thing I have seen all week. The funny thing is this started like 3 days ago and it is still funny.
$3000 for a 17 year old car keeping $4-5k on the side just in case s$%t happens.
Now that is solid advice.
I still can't stop laughing.
If I like the car and want to keep it long term yes I would put money into it. People do that all the time to keep cars they like running well. And BOATS and MOTORCYCLE trinkets.
People also buy vehicles and take far more then that in the depreciation hit as soon as they take delivery...and more the next year and more the next year. A $40,000 vehicle can take a $20,000 hit in three to four years! Most of it in year one. THATS SENSIBLE buying?
I can understand why a car salesman would think so. LOL
You guys really don't get it. You are so concerned with what I paid for a 15 year old car. Yet If I bought the same car from you you would be telling me how much of a collector it is, and "investment." I mean you sell LAND ROVERS! LOL Glorified Honda Elements!! You should be laughing at your customers as well.
Trying to steer back to the topic (there is one here, right?), I think the whole arguement started with the statement that if you bought a new car, it is dropping way more than that as soon as it crosses the curb.
A little bit back you posted the TCO for your 500. IIRC, 1st year depreciation was 5.5K, and most of that probably happened immediately, right?
Old cars, especially niche ones (and ones at the bottom of the price scale) are a total crap shoot sometimes, so I never know what to expect with them.
I have bought 1K cars and later sold them for more than I had in it, and have also gone down the tubes on one. Just hard to predict.
But, as long as you have fun while you own it (and isn't that what toys are all about?), it's only money!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Ok Now IM laughing...........Yeah I SOLD A WARRANTY TO MYSELF LOL Wow thats really a bad financial decision!
I should BUY one from you instead LOL
Nonono, let me clarify. There was no argument. Of course new cars depreciate. It's not an investment. It's an expense, a necessary one to many people.
This whole discussion (hilarity) started when our resident expert on everything told us what he had just purchased. I'm glad he likes it. It's his money and he can spend it anyway he wants. However, this absolutely cracks me up based on the vehicle in question, the miles and what he plans to do with it. Absolutely hysterical.
I love the dude. He has brightened 3 consecutive days of mine.
Ok, since this is obviously an awesome discussion, but it does not directly relate with the forum topic, how about we start a Tbaxxon forum. A place where we can discuss his latest purchases and his latest advice for everyone. I guarantee I'll be there. :P
-Moo
You must live up north. LOL We don't speak in terms of rust down here. I have not seen rust on a car in 35 years!!
BTW Carfax on this car shows no snowy winter residence. Thats the FIRST thing I check when buying ANY used car. If its from any snow state or NY/NJ metro its out. Stop and Go and Winters. Not a good combo for any car. except maybe a BLAND ROVER LOL
Plan before shopping.
Begin looking before you need to buy.
Take as many test rides as you can to ensure you have the right car and take it on all kinds of roads and speeds. Not just the right turn test drives the dealerships like.
Research your BEST price before you find a car
Arrange financing if needed.
Pay cash for used before throwing a large down on new.
Do not bring trade into the deal until the price on the New car is agreed to.
Use as much time as you can at the dealership so they take you seriously. The more time they have wrapped up in you the more likely they are to make concessions.
Don't be afraid to walk out for even $2.00
You can buy anywhere from a hungrier dealer.
NEVER give your SS# before agreeing on a price of the car you want and ONLY if you need financing from the dealer.
Bring the trade in and if you don't get wht you want. deal is over until you do. If its unreasonable you will find out by shopping around. Don't settle for the first dealership "appraisal"
Self insure. Do not buy an EW. If you must buy it (factory) on line from a discount dealer. You have plenty of time to do so.
Do not let your guard down in the F&I office. He is there to pick your pockets as well. He sells nothing of real value and all at very high margin.
Make sure he reads the contract to you including the "fine print" they will claim you did not read if there is an issue.
NEVER TAKE delivery of the vehicle BEFORE all service is DONR to your satisfaction oon the DUE BILL. You will be surprised at how fast you will get in front of the line when there is a deal pending.
The deal is not complete UNTIL you drive the car OFF THE LOT. Until then you can back out. THATS WHY TEHY PUSH YOU TO TAKE DELIVERY and WILL DELIVER THE CAR TO YOU!!! It completes the sale.
NEVER SIGN AN ARBITRAION AGREEMENT. !!! NEVER you have no recouse from the courts if you do.
You can indeed by a factory warranty from an out of state dealer for very little over cost EXCEPT in Florida.
NO on any THIRD PARTY warranty. There are Two Dealerships in the HONDA thread that sell HONDA warranties very much less then any F&I guy will. Its not that he does not have good products . Its that those products can be had for much less elsewhere.
I get it, you don't like Range Rovers. I don't even know if the people that buy them like them. I have never been in one. I do believe if I lived that lifestyle I might buy one though. You only live once. I do believe that people buy them more for status symbol than anything else. I'm sure Irguy or BR can correct me on that. But I don't know much about them except I couldn't buy one.
Yes I am from Taxachussetts.
Thats good that you did a car fax on it. We all know how reliable car fax is. But you don't see any rust so thats good for you. It won't be a Fred Flintstone mobile.
Please keep us posted for all of your service so we can be informed readers!
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
My best advice is to go back to the Edmunds Home page click on what you are interested in and follow the advice from Edmunds. Heck that was the reason the web site was started so consumers could be informed right?
Bingo ... you just answered your own question ....!
This guy just spent "whatever it took" to get it off his driveway... this ain't no baby doll - these things were cold when they hit the market "new" for goodness sake - gheez, they came with "ski gloves and a parka" in the back, plus the last ones had a $5,000 rebate - Fiats had more action than these dudes ..l.o.l.. let alone one with 156,000 rebuilt miles - and the handshakers make them worse.
What you don't seem to understand is, he spent that money just trying make it "just marketable", just to move it, just to see it gone - history ..it doesn't increase the value - it just makes it saleable...
So whether he spent $2,500 or $8,500 he just wanted to wave "bye bye" to it .... it was like selling a 2 bedroom 1 bath house to a family with 4 kids everyday of his life without fixing it ..........then you came along.
Unless these things got all the papers, all the service records, looooow miles and everything is tatoo'd, the history recorded, not rebuilt and clean to the bone .. then they're worth what they're worth - not much.!
Like I said before, you got about a $1,000 runner with a hairlip...
here's the auction reports, have a nice day:
05/30/07 BUTLER Regular $5,150 43,839 Above WHITE 6G A No
06/06/07 BAY CITI Regular $2,500 55,472 Above BLUE 6G M Yes
06/21/07 LAS VEGA Regular $500 116,207 Below SILVER 6G M Yes
07/31/07 IMPERIAL Regular $1,600 142,284 Avg RED 6G A Yes
08/03/07 FT WORTH Regular $1,350 143,607 Avg WHITE 6G A Yes
05/22/07 OHIO Regular $600 153,125 Avg GREEN 6G M Yes
I mean really. Or advice from those who have successfully bought cars FROM THEM?.
You may be infallible to salesmen. But not to me. A quick glance at EBAY IS REAL WORLD. I don't deal with "auction prices" I'll NEVER sell the car to a dealer. You are out of the loop on ALL these cars which have far more in them then DEALER books and auction prices.
You are myopic. Step into the real world of those who buy and sell thse cars. THEY LOVE them. They spend thousands on them. They race them. The value of the car is in the eye of those who will buy them and everyone WILL be sold to a buyer.
This guy wanted $4800 for this car. becasue he put so much into it. I explained he HAD to just to make it "good" on the Kelly Book. That being so I offered $3000 for a car that has had everything major done to it and I will drive maybe 4k a year. IM not to worried about losing half as much as one of your buyers does when they sign on the dotted line....
Yes he wanted out. Why? Because he had a deal pending on a Supra he could.nt pass up. A 15 year old or so $15,000 Toyota. Book THAT! LOL And yes he has a three inch thick book full of original service records. Including his.
I think the problem is there is a whole world of buyer out here who will pay up to a car they want from a private party before a dealership. I would NOT have bought the same car from any dealer at the same price. I SAW the garage this kid and his dad have. They are rebuilding a Nissan SX next.
The bottom ne is its a great deal because I SAY SO with my money. Not a bad deal because of what some car salesman says who if he was selling the car would have a WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY ON IT>..LOL
People can see through you guys. This isnt 1975 any more. Get with the times.
The best advice I could give any one here is to not ask your advice on a used car purchase.
The origin of feedback in these discussions is determined by who happens to be on-line and feels like responding at the moment - responses are not limited to those who certain members wish would respond. Ignoring advice you don't like is the best plan.
MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
Review your vehicle
Check your credit scored before you do anything if you are not paying cash.
Plan before shopping.
Begin looking before you need to buy. Agree.
Take as many test rides as you can to ensure you have the right car and take it on all kinds of roads and speeds. Not just the right turn test drives the dealerships like.
Agree to a certain point. It almost sounds like a test drive abuse. Your first test drive should be able to give you a very good idea of how the vehicle drives. If I know I have a buyer, then I take them on a 15 minute highway/city drive that covers all kinds of terrain. That eliminates the need for extra test drives typically. But whatever makes them comfortable I guess.
Arrange financing if needed. Sure!
Pay cash for used before throwing a large down on new. Personal choice. Too many variables to comment on without a specific vehicle being talked about.
Do not bring trade into the deal until the price on the New car is agreed to. Not really necessary. Just discuss the two prices separately. No need to play hide the weinie.
Use as much time as you can at the dealership so they take you seriously. The more time they have wrapped up in you the more likely they are to make concessions.
Personal choice I think. You MAY get a better deal. You MAY get some frustrated folks who don't want to sell you a car anymore. Don't really agree with this one.
Don't be afraid to walk out for even $2.00
You can buy anywhere from a hungrier dealer.
Ok.....personal choice. If that two dollars is needed, then I can completely understand walking. /shrug
NEVER give your SS# before agreeing on a price of the car you want and ONLY if you need financing from the dealer. Sure.
Bring the trade in and if you don't get wht you want. deal is over until you do. If its unreasonable you will find out by shopping around. Don't settle for the first dealership "appraisal" Or just sell it on your own. Really depends on the trade and if they give you what you want for it.
Self insure. Do not buy an EW. If you must buy it (factory) on line from a discount dealer. You have plenty of time to do so. Disagree. Many times these warranties will be from 3rd parties. Never as good as manufacturer's EWs. Again, personal choice if you want it.
Do not let your guard down in the F&I office. He is there to pick your pockets as well. He sells nothing of real value and all at very high margin.
Disagree because of rhetoric. He's there to SELL. We're a BUSINESS. If you like something, then buy it. He has many excellent products available that you may be interested in. If you don't want them, exercise your first amendment and speak out.
Make sure he reads the contract to you including the "fine print" they will claim you did not read if there is an issue. If this were the 80's, I might be more inclined to agree, but they do a great job of going over paperwork for you. If it's your first time buying, do as needed.
NEVER SIGN AN ARBITRAION AGREEMENT. !!! NEVER you have no recouse from the courts if you do. Ya lost me there. Not sure what this is or how it applies.
Overall, good advice. I sincerely wish you would drop the "pocket picker" rhetoric. I understand that car dealers scare you because they want to make money, but seriously..... Everything that you need to make a decision is available to you and we are no longer in the anarchy 80's.
Anyways... :P
-Moo
LOL!
In another topic, Moo had compared Kirstie to the agents in the movie "Minority Report". I believe those agents worked at a facility called "Pre-Crime". Too bad we don't have a "Pre-Spam" facility in Town Hall! With such technology at her disposal, Kirstie could intervene before off-topic messages are submitted!
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Man, I want to complain about my last buying experience. I was definitely not offered this option. :sick: :shades:
Some of what you post isn't bad. Your actions don't match your words, though. Most of what you post sounds like it comes verbatim from those "former sales people" or websites that claim they've got the "Secrets" to buying a car.
Sometimes you're just plain insulting to those that don't buy a Kia or a well used Stealth (one of dubious condition, and even less value).
Terry (rroyce) gave you some examples of what your sled sells for in different parts of the country. He's been a well respected, and helpful member of these boards for a long time. Yet, you dismiss his advice as being somehow dishonest.
You're coming across somwhat miserably when you use terms like "pick your pocket"..."dealerships offer nothing of value". I think the entire franchise community may disagree with you, whether it's a car dealership, a franchised restaurant, or a franchised auto repair shop.
So, what I think we have here is someone who purports you shouldn't buy any car new, since depreciation is a huge factor (tell us something we don't know). And then, turns around and buys a new Kia, which has the highest depreciation in the industry. You insult those of us who bought BMWs because they aren't worth the price. Roughly 300,000 people who bought a BMW in 2006 clearly disagree...as do many clubs and organizations devoted to their cars. Most of the trade rags say you're wrong, too. How much more evidence do you need?
You've gone on and on how you consider cars evil, yet you try to convince all of us what a "deal" you got on a car (Stealth) that you overpaid for (something you claim you hate to do), when clearly someone unloaded this thing on you.
I've tried to see your point of view. At best, you're insincere, and probably embellishing the truth quite a bit. At worst, insulting. Perhaps a Kia dealership is the only place willing to sell a car to you? You're not as good at this as you claim.
I see my scroll wheel will forever be enforced when I see your posts. Nothing of use is in any of them.
Well, he quoted something from somewhere from somebody from the twin cities. Plenty of salted roads around those parts. That was the same quote that stated those who don't know that the Stealth is a collectable car, don't know collectable from Adam.
Or maybe it's from that huge STEALTH OWNER's GROUP, all 3 of them.
Any 19 year old with 2k would buy this car in a heartbeat
Sounds like you're planning to unload this albatross on some unsuspecting kid, already. Plus, sounds like you bought it from a kid and his dad, who slapped some parts on it to get rid of it.
I'll assume that quote was from the seller. He set the bait, and hooked TB in short order.
If that were true dealerships wouldn't be spending $500-$800 to recondition cars they get at auction, or trade-in.
If a vehicle is in poor condition, and money is put into it to bring it up to average or good condition... then of course it will be worth more.
"Pay cash for used before throwing a large down on new."
Not bad advice, but I would classify this more as a "philosophy" -- not as advice for getting the best deal.
Are you arguing we should pay cash, and get whatever we can afford, instead of buying a newer model? I have two concerns with this: reliability and safety. If I can easily afford the payments, shouldn't I be willing to finance a small loan to allow my wife and children to have the safety features provided by newer cars?
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"Don't be afraid to walk out for even $2.00 You can buy anywhere from a hungrier dealer."
If the salesman has been honest, considerate, and helpful?? No, I'm not going to give him the shaft in order to save $50, much less $2!! I can see it now. All this advice seems to do is reinforce how inconsiderate and selfish we have become as a society! "Yes, Mr. Salesman, you've spent much time with me, and you've been very helpful. However, I just purchased a new Camcord from the other guys across town. They saved me an extra $25! Yippee!! Unfortunately, they didn't take the time to explain the Nav system. Can you take a few minutes to explain it to me, again?"
That doesn't mean I don't shop around, though. Depending on the circumstances, I will probably see how much lower, if any, other dealers will go -- just to make sure the first dealer is offering me a good deal. And if another dealer beats the first dealer's price by a significant margin, I will give a good salesman the chance to try to match it, or at least see how close he can come to it, before I take the bait.
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"Do not buy an EW. If you must buy it (factory) on line from a discount dealer. You have plenty of time to do so."
For a few automobiles, I might recommend an EW, but never buy a 3rd party warranty. I agree with you that if you buy an EW, but a factory warranty, and don't feel pressured to buy in the F&I office at the time of your vehicle purchase. Most manufacturers allow you to buy an EW at any time prior to expiration of the standard bumper-bumper warranty. As you said, you can usually buy from another dealer who offers a lower price. On my recent purchase, I shopped around the internet forums to determine best prices at other dealers, and then I used that data to negotiate a lower, more competitive price with my own dealer.
Lock the doors. Cancel the newspaper. Hide in the basement....
I would like to ask you to -- gently -- remove it.
It won't be much of a loss.
Thanks in advance,
-Mathias
-Moo
Is it hormones?
-Moo
The guy selling it told me someone named Ricardo told him it has rich corinthian leather.
A fool and his money were lucky to get together in the first place. Gordon Gecko/Wall Street.
OK I just had to say that.
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
Come on Jipster, there is a difference in a $800 Recon bill on a late model car and spending $4300 on a 92 model with 156K K on it.
:P
There's a good reason for that. There was never such a thing as Corinthian leather - they made it up.
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
Now that is solid advice.
I still can't stop laughing.
Ok, it seems like the [collective] you doth protest too much. Really, 3k does not buy much of a car these days. And for a fun/hobby/weekend (not a collector!) car, one can do a lot worse for 3k than the notorious Dodge. What else can one get for 3k (I mean as a private buyer, not a dealership employee who occasionally has access to super bargains)? A miled-up mid-90's Civic? A 2000 Taurus? An older Explorer?
Spending 3k and being able to easily recoup 2k (which I believe - see above) for a weekend car (not the primary transportation!) seems like a decision no less wise than buying, say, a new Miata or S2000 for 25-30k and being instantly out of 5k including taxes.
keeping $4-5k on the side just in case s$%t happens.
I think TB can perfectly well defend himself on this, but is there anything wrong with having access to liquid assets that bring a modest ROI? I mean, it does not sound like money is being stashed in a tea can.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinth
So, we've found the place. No mention of cows, though.
tidester....once again you're right......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corinthian_leather
If after 3 years you are upside down on your loan something is wrong. With a 6% loan with a 5 year term you should have paid off 56 1/3% of the loan, if you put down 10% you should only owe about 30% of the original price of the car. Unless you drive a lot of miles, damage the car in some way or rolled in negative equity from another car you should have some equity after three years.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
If someone said "I never heard of Corinthian Leather..." then that someone would be too young to hold a serious dollar discussion.
However it backfired and I found out there are many fellow AARPers like me on here. :shades:
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I remember once in one of my college accounting courses one student with a calculator getting asked to leave. A calculator in an accounting class was a big no-no.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Oh man you leave that open for me to make a comment that would get me in trouble. Why do you taunt me like that?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I always play that game, it keeps people from calling the Police. :shades:
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2013 Mustang GT, 2001 GMC Yukon Denali
I read about it in a history textbook! :P
tidester, host
SUVs and Smart Shopper
I have been reading this for a few days no as I have been in the market for a Vibe. From whats have read This guy tb has not bought a KIA has indicated he may. He has also said whatever he buys he will keep so the less expensive high warranty vehicle seems to be a prudent choice.
I understood exactly what you did regarding your example with the S2000. Lost money is lost money its a matter of choice how one decided to lose and how much someone is willing to lose.
$3000 is nothing to spend for pretty much anything that runs believe me . We have a niece we are trying to buy a car for. If it had the "improvements" of the Dodge he bought that would be nice.(BTW I think she would go nuts if she saw that kind of car for $2000.)We might go broke though.
I have actually decided after reading these posts it will be less expensive to keep my explorer and forego any payments. I understand the salespeople being defensive but the guy is not really all that off base the way I see it. His words may be rough but i kinda like his logic, But what do I know I am just a dumb woman.
And even if you didn't play that game, I suspect Sting and his former band mates wouldn't want to hear about it, anyway! :shades:
police vs Police?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
(And I remember "Corinthian" leather only too well).