Buying Tips - How Do I Get the Best Deal?

plekto

The smart thing to do is to get a certified 2007 Buick if you can(6 months old if possible). It'll have the remainder of the 100K warranty and be about 6-8K off.

The other thing is, CXS. Always buy the top end model of any Buick or Cadillac. Resale value and amenities as well as power and suspensions are all at least double the quality of the base models - and well worth it over the long haul.

I personally like the Lacrosse CXS - inexpensive($20K 6 months old is common) - and the optional bench seat is sweet(better space utilization up front). Front wheel drive, but it has the same engine as a Cadillac CXS and the sams suspension as well. It's a very competant sedan.

CarsDirect Price
$27,725MSRP Price:
$26,778 Invoice Price:
$27,078 Sales Price:
($1,500)Manufacturer Rebates:
Net Cost: $25,578
*****
Note, that includes delivery of $685, so that's a decent deal. Used - yeah, $20K for a used 2007 is common or will be in 3-4 weeks when the 2008s come out.

I get $26,649 with a few options on it:
- skip the floor mats - aftermarket are cheaper and better.
- skip the driver package if you can - it requires bucket seats as opposed to the nice bench.
- get the stabilitrack handling option if you can - I'd rate this as more important than traction control(which I always turn off anyways).
- GM's never made a reliable sunroof in its life - pass.
Add optional stuff as you see fit, of course.

Oh - the collumn shifter looks old-school, but it also has the traction control switch on the end. With bucket seats, the shifter takes up the entire front floor(wasted space) and the traction control override switch is buried in the dash with a dozen other buttons - literally.

jipster

Buick on top?

(Dick Vitale's voice) "That's right baby... Buick number one! The Gen-eral back on top where he belongs!!! OHHH... how we all wish we could be like the Genn-aralll!!" :P

It's nice to know I have the highest quality and most reliable car on the planet.

This is an omen... the beginning of the end for Honda and Toyota. Repent sinners... buy G.M :shades:

bobst

How can anyone really judge the reliability of a new car?

I mean, the car is too new to have an serious problems. Maybe after 100K miles you can say a car is reliable or not, but not before.

mikefm58

I agree Bob, there's not much difference in most of the brands at the top and everything is covered on warranty any way. So other than bragging rights, it doesn't mean much. To me, the important things are how well does a vehicle hold its value and what is its expected long term reliability.

bobst

"long term reliability."

Yeah, so how can they look at a new car and say it should have long term reliability?

rroyce10

Bobst, do you have any idea how many Buicks in the last 20 years have 125/150/200,000+ miles.? ... besides most of them.



Terry

plekto

Yeah... the rest of the car is falling apart at 15-20 years, but the drivetrain is nearly unkillable. The old joke I had when I owned Buicks in the past was "I keep waiting for it to die so I have an excuse to get a new one".

In every case, I finally gave up and sold it before it died. The last one was 18 years old and had 180K on it. Ran perfectly well. No soul, no flair, no fun, but it just kept chugging along.

Used, they are incredible deals.

jmonroe

To me, the important things are how well does a vehicle hold its value and what is its expected long term reliability.

I'm not arguing with you here but if I were putting those two requisites in order of importance, I put “long term reliability” 1st because if it has that everything else falls into place. I’m one of those people who keeps a car for 8/9 years so resale value means nothing to me. I’m selfish; it’s all about what I can get from a car while I own it.

LONG TERM RELIABILITY trumps everything else.

jmonroe

jlawrence01

The Buicks seem to last forever. I see hundreds of 15+ year old Buicks on a daily basis and they hold up better than most. To find one in good condition at a rock-bottom proce is not that easy.

Having said that, the Lucerne really didn't do much for me.

Kirstie_H

Yes, it is usually easier to find these Forums if you've been here before under a different ID.

im_brentwood

Is Snurple back???????

jmonroe

Yeah... the rest of the car is falling apart at 15-20 years, but the drivetrain is nearly unkillable. The old joke I had when I owned Buicks in the past was "I keep waiting for it to die so I have an excuse to get a new one".

In every case, I finally gave up and sold it before it died.

Boy, that’s hitting the nail on the head. !!

It’s almost comical the way GM cars keep hanging on, like:

(1) Hold your tongue a certain way when you want the driver window to work.
(2) Hold your tongue the opposite way to operate the passenger window.
(3) Turn the interior lights on then off so the static disappears when listening to AM radio.
(4) Lean a certain way when you want to adjust the driver’s power seat.
(5) Turn on heat then turn on air conditioning (this seems to move the vacuum motors and allows all functions to work after exercising them).

And of course, when using the keyless entry, Murphy’s-law comes into play... the drivers door solenoid fails not any other door solenoid. I know, it’s used more often but since I’m being picky, why not list it? :P

Now, having said all this, the 1980 Buick Park Ave. was the best car I ever owned, had it until 1997. Believe it or not it didn’t have any of the quirks mentioned above but the other GM’s I’ve owned did. One had all of them. :mad: :mad:

I guess this gives credence to the old saying “GM cars run worse longer than other cars run”. :surprise:

jmonroe

jhs70

Doesn't look like anyone ever really answered your question, so I will. I just bought a Camry Hybrid from them this past weekend. I found their price to be quite good. I'm sure I could have shopped their price and found a better price somewhere, but I just don't have time for the games any more. :sick: I'd been looking for a while. Seen and heard it all. I got it for a few hundred over invoice, whereas most dealers were quoting MSRP, or a few hundred less than that. Mind you, there was NO negotiation at Fitz; didn't even try. I just paid the price they had on their website for that particular vehicle, and, like I say, I found it pretty competitive.

The experience at the dealership was pretty good too. My sales guy was quick and to the point, and boy did he ever know his stuff. Very impressive. Very polite and respectful of me and my time, which I liked. Prior to the sale, however, I found him a bit hard to get in touch with, but wrote that off to the fact that Fitz's people are salaried, not commissioned, so they're not as "in your face" as others might be.

Of course, I got the mop&glow, lojack, and long term warranty spiel, but I turned it all down. :lemon: They didn't seem to care -- no strong arm tactics to turn me around. For some unexplained reason I had this perception that they wouldn't try to sell me this stuff, but they did. As I say, I just said no, and that was that.

All in all I would rate this as a 9 out of 10 experience. I think anyone can duplicate this if they just do a bit of homework.

Kirstie_H

You should copy & paste most of that into Dealer Ratings and Reviews:
http://www.edmunds.com/dealerships/drr/jump.html

nortsr1

jhs70...Thanks for the reply. Did you have a trade-in? I was wondering if they low ball the trade-in because of the invoice type pricing?
NORTSR

jhs70

Good point...shoulda mentioned that. No, I didn't have a trade because I sold it on my own beforehand, so it wasn't a factor. I did discuss a trade with them a month or so ago when I first started looking around. As things progressed, if I recall, they said they'd at least match Carmax's offer on it (I went to CM for grins early in my hunt), and maybe more (yeah, right). I was pretty happy with what Carmax offered, so if they had given that price to me I still would have been pretty satisfied overall. (However I got a few more sheckles for it selling it on my own over what CM offered.)

I haven't heard that they try to lowball trades -- maybe they do, maybe they don't. But with all the "buzz" around here over their aggressive pricing (which surely lures a lot of folks like me) you would think I'd have heard about that by now.

If you would like the name of my salesman, PM me and I will pass it along. Like I said, he was great, and I walked out..... er, drove out, a very happy customer.

nortsr1

jhs70....Thanks for the fast replies. No, I won't need the salesman's name, as I will try it on my own...but thanks anyway.

NORTSR

threeifbyair

I'm headed to a GM dealership after work who have eleven new 2006 minivans. (Amazing to think, but true.) Obviously they must be desperate to shift them, given that the 2008 models are coming very soon and with the 2008 model year GM won't be in the minivan business at all.

The question is, how aggressive can I get with pricing? They are listing MSRPs in the $34-37k range and website prices at $6k less than MSRP (actually, they're listing prices at $10k less than MSRP and then 'including a $4k trade-in' in the fine print) but how low could I realistically go and not be laughed out of the place? My primary plan was to buy a lightly-used 2006 model, and I can get what I want for about $22k with 10,000 miles on the clock, but if I start negotiating at $22-24k+tax (OTD price) am I just going to be shown the door?

How desperate is the dealership likely to be?

gasman1

There's a reason that they still have these 2006 minivans. Check any publication (including Edmunds) for the issues these vehicles have. To answer your question, make your offer at $22K to $24K. If they try to bump you up, don't do it! Tell them thank you, but no thank you. Give them your phone number (if you're interested) and tell them to call should they want to sell one of them. Than LEAVE!

If they don't come after you before you get in your car, they should be calling you before Friday (31st). If they don't call, you can do the same thing at the end of next month. The 2008's are coming out now and some 2009's will be out by March/April.

Another way to do it is to read that fine print again. Are they stating "with $4K trade equity" or any trade gets $4K. If the later, verify first then buy a $200 junker and trade it in. Good luck!

im_brentwood

Give me the specs on said Minivans and I can give you an idea what their actual values might be.

If a used one is $22k, I don't think they'll sell what's still a new one for that, they'd have just sent them to auction.

But post the specs and I can get you an idea as to true value.

joel0622

What is 10K miles worth to you? If you can buy the same model used for $23K with 10K mile on it add the value of 10K mile to it.

Me personally I would never buy a new car from 2 model years ago, unless I could buy it for the same as a used, just like I think Demo's are terrible deal.

But it is not my money your spending its yours

fezo

Unless you are absolutely in love with GM minivans I'd think very seriously about looking elsewere. They are going out of the business for very good reasons!

joel0622

Who is going out of business?

fezo

Not going out of business - going out of the minivan business.

If you stacked up all the minivans available (including old model years still available as new) GM would be at the bottom of my list. Don't like the way they drive, years behind on safety and, of course, now that they are being retired, abysmal on resale.

They rank behind Ford who at least always had a very safe van.

It's a mystery to me why only a handful of carmakers, and for maybe 15 years only Chrysler, can figure out how to put together a nice minivan.

gasman1

I agree with fezo. These vehicles need not a second take but possibly a triple take before purchgasing one of them. I ran numbers for "typically" equipped '06 Montana SV6 with 500 miles on it. KBB and Edmunds peg it at $19,000-19,500 used and $20,390 as a certified USED vehicle.

joel0622

Not going out of business - going out of the minivan business.


OK, I agree with ya there, mini vans are going the same way station wagons did. The SUV and now Cross Overs are taking that market over.

oldfarmer50

10-15 years ago minivans were on everybody's "must have list. I remember my wife's rich cousin who was at the front of every automotive trend had a Ford Windstar. Now minivans are for "squares" and no one wants them.

BTW, now the trendy rich cousin drives a Hybrid.

snakeweasel

OK, I agree with ya there, mini vans are going the same way station wagons did. The SUV and now Cross Overs are taking that market over.

Yes it went from mini vans to SUVs then to Cross overs what would be the next step? Back to station wagons?

kyfdx

As far as I can see, GM never got in the mini-van business....

The reason those '06s are still around? Kia and Hyundai have better designed mini-vans.. You can get a brand-new, 2007 Chrysler minivan for $7K off MSRP.. That would be a much better deal than one of those GM models.

jipster

Back to station wagons?

I'd say yes. The station wagon was pronounced dead over a decade ago and made a comeback... so too will the minivan reign supreme again one day.

Crossovers are for people who don't want to be stigmatized into the minivan or station wagon category. Crossovers can't come close to minis in utility. They're basically small minivans molded into the shape of a 4 door sedan.

threeifbyair

So... went to the dealership. They're not interested even in countering a $26k offer. Maybe they'll call me back before the end of the month, but I doubt it. They have my home and cell numbers. (And they already have 2008 models -- what amazes me is that one of the eleven 06 minivans is right inside the showroom, whereas the new 2008 crossover is sitting outside minding its own business!)

To answer a few questions: They're stating "with $4k trade or cash equity". The reason we want a GM minivan is that we don't want to lose the SUV style but more importantly we live in rural New England and all-wheel-drive is a must (that's also why we're getting an 06 -- GM eliminated that for 07)

As for the specs, what they have left is the seriously loaded Buick Terrazas (and a few Montana SV6es) -- with everything, CXL, 'driver confidence', PhatNoise hard drive audio system, XM, the works. Half the stuff we're not interested in, but there are hardly any non-loaded ones left.

And what's 10k miles worth to us? Maybe $2-3k: the last time we bought a car (March 2004) we planned to buy lightly-used but the rebates on the car we wanted (a Chevy Tracker) were so huge that the premium for new was only about $1000.

As for 'minivans are on their way out' -- we'd love to stick to an SUV. We have an SUV with a third row of seats and we love it. But we just had our second child, and with two child seats in the car, the third row is inaccessible because you can't tip the seat forward from the second row. That's why we actually need a minivan, not a crossover.

Give me another alternative for an all-wheel-drive vehicle that can access a third row without tipping the seats in the second row, and won't set me back more than about $25k (with 0-20,000 miles on the clock), and I'll happily listen!

ETA: The dealership just called back. They still won't sell for less than $30k. Personally, I think they're on crack.

joel0622

we'd love to stick to an SUV. We have an SUV with a third row of seats and we love it. But we just had our second child, and with two child seats in the car, the third row is inaccessible because you can't tip the seat forward from the second row. That's why we actually need a minivan, not a crossover.

That is a trait of a GM not all SUV's. Unless you are a GM family only (which is fine, I admire brand loyalty) you may want to look at the Ford Expedition. You can fold down its third seat with the push of a button, it has a power fold down 3rd row seat.

threeifbyair

Hmm. I'm not talking about folding down the third row. I'm talking about access to the third row without folding the second row. In other words, us in the front, two small children (with fixed car seats) in the second row, and other people (grandparents, friends, etc.) in the third. Easy in a minivan, hard in any SUV I've ever seen. Does an SUV or crossover with a non-bench second row (and room for two adults in the third) exist?

And we're not GM snobs -- the car we're getting rid of is a Suzuki XL-7. OK, you could argue that's half a GM car. (The car I really loved but had to get rid of before we had kids was the Suzuki X-90. Weirdest car on the planet but a lot of fun.) Ideally, we wouldn't want something enormous like an Expedition, but I'll look into it. I drove a Tahoe for a month and hated how huge it was.

Am I just a very challenging customer?

asafonov

The reason those '06s are still around? Kia and Hyundai have better designed mini-vans.. You can get a brand-new, 2007 Chrysler minivan for $7K off MSRP.. That would be a much better deal than one of those GM models.

A Mazda5 also appears an excellent deal (about the same price as a Civic?) if its size is adequate for its intended use.

jmonroe

The station wagon was pronounced dead over a decade ago and made a comeback... so too will the minivan reign supreme again one day.

I don’t have a dog in this fight, well not really, since I don’t own either one. However, I have an opinion because son #1 has a Dodge minivan and son #2 has a Ford Explorer. I’ve used both to haul stuff home from the home center and a full sheet of plywood lays flat in the minivan but in the SUV it has to lean against either of the rear side panels thereby requiring protection so you don’t leave evidence that it was used as a hauler. The minivan is bigger and has seats that lean forward.

The minivan is also much easier to load toddlers and adults and is by far more comfortable to ride in; it doesn’t feel like a truck Yep, the minivan is a winner, hands down.

Of course son #2 and his dearest have been in son #1’s minivan and they both say when it’s time to replace the Explorer it’s going to be a minivan, no doubt about it. They are not sure what brand it will be but “it won’t be another SUV” and they say that emphatically.

jmonroe

obyone

The ideal vehicle would be a pickup truck with rear sliding doors.

jmonroe

The ideal vehicle would be a pickup truck with rear sliding doors.

But only if it didn’t ride like a pick-up.

The ride of an SUV shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone…aren’t they really a pick-up without “rear sliding doors”?

jmonroe

obyone

A test drive of the domestic full size trucks will reveal that they ride a lot better than those econo boxes except perhaps for the new full sized effort by Toyota. Course you could test drive and see what ride improvements have been made since you last rode in one. Not on Saturdays tho, I've heard that's not a good idea.

The reason I said pickup rather than SUV cause often enough on trips to the local HD many also need to pickup soil preparation materials. Stuff that you wouldn't place inside of a SUV. Come to think about it most lumber is treated and you wouldn't want to place that inside either with it contaminating not only the surfaces it comes in contact with but also the air conditioning as trace amounts of pesticide evaporate. :surprise:

I was surprised at the ride quality of the full sized pickups vs the SUV with the SUV having coil springs vs. leaf for the pickups. Either that or with age, I've lost some amount of sensitivity. :P

jmonroe

Course you could test drive and see what ride improvements have been made since you last rode in one.

I was surprised at the ride quality of the full sized pickups vs the SUV with the SUV having coil springs vs. leaf for the pickups.

I'll take your word for it but I'm not going to waste my time or a dealers if I have no intentions of buying just to prove it. I haven't been in a newer pick-up for years but my youngest son's SUV (2000/2001,I can't remember exactly, Explorer) rides just like a pick-up truck and always did not only when it got older (it now has just under 100K miles).

Either that or with age, I've lost some amount of sensitivity.

I hate to admit it but I know what you mean.

jmonroe

fezo

"As far as I can see, GM never got in the mini-van business...."

I was being kind.....

When we bought our first minivan (a Ford Windstall, sigh...)we tried out a few and the GM dealer had the pushiest salesman with the worst product. These were the original dustbuster vans. They went through touch ups but never were redesigned.

I've let the SUV and now crossover phase just be of nodding interest. Now I've got four kids which enters into it but one is starting college and really never rides with the family so let's call it three for teh moment. There's nothing other than a minivan that does the trick for carrying both people and luggage in comfort. Heck we just had the Ody with a cap on it going camping up in Ontario. All six of us, three tents, six sleeping bags, all the stuff ya gotta have in clothing, etc, a guitar, DVDs and what not and rode all the way up in comfort. All the way down, too, once we took down camp in the rain....

I like wagons, too. Had an 87 Maxima wagon that I just loved. If they made a Maxima wagon now I'd be right on line to buy.

gasman1

Congratulations on walking when presented s $30K deal on these left-over '06 vehicles! As for a 7-PAX (3 row) with walk through for about $25K, that's a tall order. I haven't checked them out, but you may want to look at an AWD Chrysler Pacifica. I "think" the second row is buckets. A basic model with a $3,500 rebate (my zip code) comes out to less than $23K on Edmunds TMV.

I would also consider a modern 2WD vehicle (with traction control and stability control). They go so many places that used to require 4WD. However, they're less expensive to purchase and to maintain. I know New England as I lived at Ft, Devens, MA (Ayer/Leominster) for 13 years on and off. A 2WD (if it fits your needs) would open so many more vehicles to you.

Edmunds and other sites provide some good ratings and review information. Much of it's subjective... However, when you read the same type of issues or positives for a vehicle on several sites, you get a fair analysis of it's pros and cons.

Best of luck!

fezo

A lightly used Pacifica or a Freestyle might do the trick.

im_brentwood

Oh god.. Not the...(insert chamber music) dun dun dun... WINDSTALL!

Sir Fezo vs teh Windstall vs Whale Food.. dark days indeed.

kyfdx

When my uncle sold his '87 Maxima wagon in 1995, he got 37 calls the first day...

At that point, a good wagon was hard to find...

jlawrence01

There are a lot of small contractors (painters, drywall, etc.) who prefer wagons to SUVs and pick-ups.

Locally, we have a few remodeling guys locally who buy and rebuild hearses for that purpose. Hearses work very well as 1) they are generally well maintained, 2) driven carefully, and 3) allow for the mounting of ladder racks on the roof structure of the vehicle.

kiawah

And best of all, traffic always stops to let you proceed........

fezo

The Windstall was good for a lifetime of stories. It certainly wasn't much for transportation....

lilengineerboy

The reason I said pickup rather than SUV cause often enough on trips to the local HD many also need to pickup soil preparation materials. Stuff that you wouldn't place inside of a SUV. Come to think about it most lumber is treated and you wouldn't want to place that inside either with it contaminating not only the surfaces it comes in contact with but also the air conditioning as trace amounts of pesticide evaporate.

$150 and any vehicle is an SUV or PU

obyone

Most SUV don't have tow hitches stock and cars for sure. Usually its an unselected option since most don't tow. And I can't imagine renting a trailer just to pick up a couple of bags of manure or pieces of plywood. Would be much easier to rent the truck they have available at Lowes or HD. Guess that's why they have them.

lilengineerboy

Most SUV don't have tow hitches stock and cars for sure. Usually its an unselected option since most don't tow.

And for $150 you can correct that, and be able to use a hitch mounted bike rack to boot. Many real (non-car based) SUVs have a hitch standard integrated into the bumper.

And I can't imagine renting a trailer just to pick up a couple of bags of manure or pieces of plywood.

Its not such a big deal, the uHaul place is on the corner by Lowes, and the 5x8 open trailer is $10/day, 5x8 enclosed is ~20.

Would be much easier to rent the truck they have available at Lowes or HD. Guess that's why they have them.

If its not checked out, I concur, and I have gone that route too. My neighbor's 1/2 ton truck couldn't safely carry the amount of soil I needed, my Accord certainly wasn't going to tow it so the 3/4-ton superduty rental truck from Lowes was the way to go. Should I buy a 3/4 ton super duty truck for the every-other-year trip to Lowes?